Wilbraham

[samo II]

Last year he surprised many (myself included) by starting off like a steam train in front of goal, and never really letting up for any significant periods until injury forced him out.  Then he picked straight back up again.

Delighted he got us a goal yesterday, and have never doubted he'd be useful, but like another veteran striker who served us well in the shape of Adebola, I think the elusive thing now will be consistency.  

Towards the end of his time here, Ade was unplayable probably one game in four, and at other times it was negligible how influential he was.  

Many have expressed concern at Wilbs contribution the last few games, and a good goal doesn't change that; we still only got a point against a team who we'll likely be scrapping with towards the bottom of the table, and though his goal got is a point, it's not disrespectful to look at the bigger picture and wonder how we can regularly rack up double digits of chances and not be able to beat teams who we out 'create'.

[Soul_Trader]

Saw in the EP that he said he thought 3 points was the least City deserved from the game.

 

How does that work?

[Nogbad the Bad]

I believe we don't need a "target man" for me I think Wilbs hold up play is poor and he is a bit of a carthorse, I said it last year too even with him scoring 20 goals.

In terms of the diags we hit, they can quite easily be won by JB who can knock them into Kodjia and Agard. I also think that it would make us play that diag (which success rate is 50/50) a little bit less and we would become more dynamic

The records show Wilbs.' goal ratio for City is a remarkable approx. 1:2, Agard's, though still reasonable at approx. 1:3. is notably inferior.

Wilbraham also softens up the opposition defence ( gives and takes the knocks) to ease the pressure on his strike partner, and his experience and cool head not only have a beneficial on pich influence on our  young team but allow him to create space and goals for others (i.e Joe's at Middlesbro')

You say he is a carthorse ( very unnecessary and very debatable) and his hold up play is poor. My opinion is his hold up play is at least equal to that of KA, who you would apparently replace him with.

All agree - including the player himself - Wilbraham had a very disappointing game at Brum and the likelihood is he will be used more sparingly - he may even be rested this coming w/e - and possibly phased out as the season progresses but for now he's our best option until a similarly robust player is signed.

You say replacing Wilbs with Agard would make us more dynamic - could we be much more dynamic than we were for the first half hour v. Brentford when Wilbs and Kodjia formed a remarkably positive and effective joint spearhead?

 

[Bs4Red]

The records show Wilbs.' goal ratio for City is a remarkable approx. 1:2, Agard's, though still reasonable at approx. 1:3. is notably inferior.

Wilbraham also softens up the opposition defence ( gives and takes the knocks) to ease the pressure on his strike partner, and his experience and cool head not only have a beneficial on pich influence on our  young team but allow him to create space and goals for others (i.e Joe's at Middlesbro')

You say he is a carthorse ( very unnecessary and very debatable) and his hold up play is poor. My opinion is his hold up play is at least equal to that of KA, who you would apparently replace him with.

All agree - including the player himself - Wilbraham had a very disappointing game at Brum and the likelihood is he will be used more sparingly - he may even be rested this coming w/e - and possibly phased out as the season progresses but for now he's our best option until a similarly robust player is signed.

You say replacing Wilbs with Agard would make us more dynamic - could we be much more dynamic than we were for the first half hour v. Brentford when Wilbs and Kodjia formed a remarkably positive and effective joint spearhead?

 

I didn't say I wanted Agard, I was just replying to a post who said Agard and Kodjia. 

Agree Wilbs hold up play would be as good as Agard but he wouldn't be on to hold the ball up. 

Yes we were but my question is of the 6 chances Wilbs had how many would Agard have scored? 

He works hard and is a good servant but you cannot tell me he is the best option we have? 

He was also extremely poor last night except for his goal.

[reddogkev]

Why does there always have to be a player who is the subject of scrutiny?  I'm with the OP, I praise Wilbs for his goal last night (without which we would have lost a very important game) and for his contribution last season (which should still be recognised and respected), and I will continue to support him with every ounce of my being whilst he is in the team.

There's no need to be so critical and ask if there is anyone better.  The fact is he deserves to be in the team at the moment, both on merit, and recognition of last season.

His stats aren't too bad at all so far, so give the guy a break.

I like Wilbs a lot as a player, and feel he should keep his place.  This will be his last season as a player, so show the guy some bloody respect.

 

[JoeAman08]

 

do you have the same sentiments about the manager?

No I don't. I can be a bit more patient of a manager. There shouldn't be any loyalty to a player if you want to be successful. If Cotts thinks he is still our best option than go for it. It's a forum and I think we'd get more out of Wilbs in 20 minute cameos and the odd start. Or maybe in a specific matchup. Steve Cotterhill was the mastermind to last season. Wilbraham was his piece to the puzzle and that's why he gets more slack as manager. 

Its tough because it probably sounds like I dislike Wilbraham. I don't at all. He's getting close to the end and while he has his uses, is that best suited for 90 minutes over 46 matches? IMO, no he isn't best suited for that. 

[MichaelRobartes]

I didn't say he should be playing, but I didn't say he shouldn't be either. He is without doubt the oldest and most experienced player out there, and as you say a fantastic role model. Maybe there would have been an outcry if he hadn't been made captain, but I personally would have given it to Korey and made Wilbs vice captain. Two reasons, firstly I believe Korey will get more playing time and also I'm not a great believer in a Striker being captain. Oh and of course Korey has previously had this role with Oldham and us.

I thought I'd made it quite clear that I was speaking hypothetically. I certainly wasn't suggesting that you had advocated dropping or not dropping Wilbraham. I think that your logic on Smith is sound.

[Super]

interesting to see if he plays Saturday on the back of two tough away games this week.

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

interesting to see if he plays Saturday on the back of two tough away games this week.

He will be playing, we had there same concerns last season when we had three games a week and he still managed it.

[RedRobinMike]

I think wilbs has found it harder this season but then some people forget last season was a one off scoring wise.  Most of his career he has been played as a target man and has been very effective.  

I think we will stick with wilbs until Jan unless we are still at the bottom of the league and wilbs is feeling fatigued.  If this Is the case I wouldn't be suprised to see Reid come in  along side Freeman  And codger up front by himself.   if we're not having a guy up top , Agards fortay isn't hold up play . 

 

[old_eastender]

Although it seems harsh, I'd agree with those saying no room for sentiment. Yes Wilbs did great for us last season, but he has struggled to have any real impact this season, and from those that went to Preston the common view was that he had another poor game, save for the goal. Certainly looked like he should have anticipated the Little cross for which any touch would have put us in front.

Kodjia played most of last season up front on his own, and I'd certainly like to see us either playing 5-4-1, or as others have suggested at least trying Kodjia with Agard. Agard would certainly close down defenders a lot more than Wilbs and they say defending starts at the front.

[Gert Mare]

Wilbs struggled to score at this level last time around and that was in a Crystal Palace side who won the play-off final that year.

Saying that, he did have a tremendous season last year for us, but being handed the club captaincy is like being given the poisoned chalice....You know that it means that this is the last season that he will play for us.

[Nogbad the Bad]

 

I don't remember Wilbs. having 6 chances? 

As for Agard taking a better percentage, unlikely imo, their respective records for City indicate the opposite and Agard's a very long way from being a clinical finisher.

KA is the only genuine competitor for Wilbraham's place, he scores less and has less of a physical presence, so yes, imo. Wilb's is the best option we've got for now.

Ole's said on another thread that Wilbs' volley would have been a certain goal but for hitting Freeman, so however poor he was in your opinion, he could still easily have been the 2 goal 3 point clincher - and they'd have been 2 top class goals too -   but for Freeman's unfortunate intervention.

Far to early to write Wilbraham off - as some clearly have - when with a younger player a less impressive short period would merely be seen as a dip in form that all players go through.

His on field value to the team due to his experience and the example he sets should be a factor in giving him a bit of extra leeway too.

[Frenchay Red]

I don't remember Wilbs. having 6 chances? 

As for Agard taking a better percentage, unlikely imo, their respective records for City indicate the opposite and Agard's a very long way from being a clinical finisher.

KA is the only genuine competitor for Wilbraham's place, he scores less and has less of a physical presence, so yes, imo. Wilb's is the best option we've got for now.

Ole's said on another thread that Wilbs' volley would have been a certain goal but for hitting Freeman, so however poor he was in your opinion, he could still easily have been the 2 goal 3 point clincher - and they'd have been 2 top class goals too -   but for Freeman's unfortunate intervention.

Far to early to write Wilbraham off - as some clearly have - when with a younger player a less impressive short period would merely be seen as a dip in form that all players go through.

His on field value to the team due to his experience and the example he sets should be a factor in giving him a bit of extra leeway too.

Bit ironic really, that after saying we must be more clinical with our finishing, Freeman blocks one great chance and misses another right at the end!

 

[Bs4Red]

I don't remember Wilbs. having 6 chances? 

As for Agard taking a better percentage, unlikely imo, their respective records for City indicate the opposite and Agard's a very long way from being a clinical finisher.

KA is the only genuine competitor for Wilbraham's place, he scores less and has less of a physical presence, so yes, imo. Wilb's is the best option we've got for now.

Ole's said on another thread that Wilbs' volley would have been a certain goal but for hitting Freeman, so however poor he was in your opinion, he could still easily have been the 2 goal 3 point clincher - and they'd have been 2 top class goals too -   but for Freeman's unfortunate intervention.

Far to early to write Wilbraham off - as some clearly have - when with a younger player a less impressive short period would merely be seen as a dip in form that all players go through.

His on field value to the team due to his experience and the example he sets should be a factor in giving him a bit of extra leeway too.

Over the games he has had around 6 clear chances and hasn't scored. You have to take into consideration that Agard has had a lot of appearances off the bench and also come back from Injury. If you are looking at goals to game this season I'm pretty certain Agard has 1 goal in 90 mins? (I may be wrong). In regards to unlucky I think it happens to a striker all the time and therefore don't think you can calculate that. The question for me isn't how many goals he scores because Wilbs isn't a goalscorer and never has been (last season being a one off) but what else does he bring to the team? His hold up play isn't great for a so called big man granted he has experience and works extremely hard but doesn't bring players into the game in the same way Matt Smith did last year

[spudski]

Over the games he has had around 6 clear chances and hasn't scored. You have to take into consideration that Agard has had a lot of appearances off the bench and also come back from Injury. If you are looking at goals to game this season I'm pretty certain Agard has 1 goal in 90 mins? (I may be wrong). In regards to unlucky I think it happens to a striker all the time and therefore don't think you can calculate that. The question for me isn't how many goals he scores because Wilbs isn't a goalscorer and never has been (last season being a one off) but what else does he bring to the team? His hold up play isn't great for a so called big man granted he has experience and works extremely hard but doesn't bring players into the game in the same way Matt Smith did last year

Reading between the lines, and even though he's signed a new contract, SC seemed pretty confident imho, of picking up Yann Kermorgant in the January window.

I think he'd be an ideal replacement for Wilbs, and someone who could work will JK and feed off Bryans crosses.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Over the games he has had around 6 clear chances and hasn't scored. You have to take into consideration that Agard has had a lot of appearances off the bench and also come back from Injury. If you are looking at goals to game this season I'm pretty certain Agard has 1 goal in 90 mins? (I may be wrong). In regards to unlucky I think it happens to a striker all the time and therefore don't think you can calculate that. The question for me isn't how many goals he scores because Wilbs isn't a goalscorer and never has been (last season being a one off) but what else does he bring to the team? His hold up play isn't great for a so called big man granted he has experience and works extremely hard but doesn't bring players into the game in the same way Matt Smith did last year

Still don't know where you get the '6 clear chances' from. No striker takes every chance and despite a very impressive start overall Kodjia's been a prime culprit in the games I've seen. 

Re. Agard: I'm talking about their goals per game ratio for City - as highlighted earlier in the thread Wilbraham has a better record for us.

It would appear Cotts. doesn't rate Agard as highly as some  - he's tried to break City's record 2x for a similar but better striker, and seems loath to bring him on as a sub.

I agree it would be interesting to see him alongside Kodjia if Wilbs. at some stage and see how the team and style of play adapted. But apart from that it seems to me he's now viewed as Kodjia's stand in.

Wilbraham may be the sort of player some fans will only appreciate what he brings to the team when he's absent.

 

[Bs4Red]

Still don't know where you get the '6 clear chances' from. No striker takes every chance and despite a very impressive start overall Kodjia's been a prime culprit in the games I've seen. 

Re. Agard: I'm talking about their goals per game ratio for City - as highlighted earlier in the thread Wilbraham has a better record for us.

It would appear Cotts. doesn't rate Agard as highly as some  - he's tried to break City's record 2x for a similar but better striker, and seems loath to bring him on as a sub.

I agree it would be interesting to see him alongside Kodjia if Wilbs. at some stage and see how the team and style of play adapted. But apart from that it seems to me he's now viewed as Kodjia's stand in.

Wilbraham may be the sort of player some fans will only appreciate what he brings to the team when he's absent.

 

Maybe you haven't seen the games I've seen but I could single out 6 for certain and yes totally agree Kodj should have scored more.

you also have to remember Agard has had injuries during that which adds to the process of games.

i personally don't think we'd miss him and if Kermogant is true. That's what a "target man" should be and you'll see the difference.

Matt Smith or Wilbraham?  

I know who I'd have 

[spudski]

This will be Wilbs last season, it is pretty clear he was meant to be playing a bit part this year not every game. I don't understand the Kermongant situation either, most strange from both sides point of view. Also not a Gayle type player either, so well confused on that one. 

Indeed...it's confused me as well...Gayle, Gray and Kermorgant are all different in their approach....even Frazier Campbell which had a tenuous link apparently.

It strikes me as desperate to some degree.

[Shtanley]

Can someone show me when Kermorgant was proved to be the person we missed out on? The only time I saw his name linked to the missed man was in the Evening post.