It's really as simple as this

[Alan Dicks]

SC can only work within the framework the current owner/ board allow him to

[slartibartfast]

If that's the case, he may as well walk, UNLESS, the suits make an announcement and tell it like it is!

[cityexile]

SC can only work within the framework the current owner/ board allow him to

Then work within it?

[City1970]

SC can only work within the framework the current owner/ board allow him to

I will be surprised if it was the owner/board's wishes to watch players deemed not good enough to play for us in League1 playing for us in the Championship.

[ChippenhamRed]

That framework has permitted him to make multi-million pound offers for players that he subsequently failed to sign. The money made available would have enabled him to have purchased other, more attainable targets on more reasonable salaries. Instead he targeted the wrong players and ended up signing no-one, Kodjia aside. Other Championship clubs with similar budgets have managed to recruit good players and compile a squad large enough to give cover in all positions. We have done neither. SC is certainly not entirely to blame, but there is no way you can absolve the manager of any blame for our disastrous summer.

[Super]

Is the loan window open now?

[Nibor]

SC can only work within the framework the current owner/ board allow him to

The same framework that authorises bids of £6-9m?  It doesn't seem overly restrictive and SL has a proven track record of backing managers with cash - perhaps too much so.

What we need is to identify the right kind of players (ability, cost, age) and then sort out the commercials quickly and professionally.  Not target the wrong players and pontificate about the market whilst everyone else gets on with it.

[Alan Dicks]

you can offer a club xxx amount of millions for their players, but if you offer peanut salaries compared to other clubs, those players will not be heading to Bristol that's for sure

 

[spudski]

You are presuming players have turned us down purely for money.

Bristol City are not an attractive proposition, especially if you are around 24 years of age and being asked to sign a 4 year contract.

Our recent history is dire...we had one great season last year. Before that we had approx. seven seasons on a downward spiral.

Young talented players from League 1 and 2 would come here, and use us as a stepping stone....to get in the shop window.

Players like Kodijia are in a similar vein. Older experienced players like Wilbs and Elliott would come here, as it's the last big pay cheque and an opportunity to stay in this league. Other than that, the type of players we've been looking at are not interested, regardless of competitive wages. There are better options elsewhere.

Plus we have a manager that is like marmite in the football world...some love him...some hate him.

[Between heaven and hell]

I will be surprised if it was the owner/board's wishes to watch players deemed not good enough to play for us in League1 playing for us in the Championship.

spot-on mate well said

[Guest]

I agree with you Spudski. I think a lot of fans have bought in to the new ground as some kind of profile builder, and whilst it is, it is not that significant to a 24 year old who has to decide on a move. It's a very finely balanced stage at their career and a wrong move can seriously impact the trajectory.

The stadium, the money, last season, none of it guarantees success and if we ask players like Grey and Gayle to take the gamble of course we will fail to convince them more times than not. Even if we do, we cannot be sure that we've not dropped a bomb on an eventual flop. 

Doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't try, but it bloody well means we should have contingency plans though. 

[AshtonGreat]

As far as I can see, we're not doing awfully. We have beaten Boro away, drawn away to Ipswich, drawn with Leeds and MK Dons, and in at least two of the games we lost, we were unlucky to do so. I think a lot of it is down to confidence. Get a couple of wins under our belt and it'll start to fall into place

[Frenchay Red]

As someone pointed out the other day, we may like it here, but as a destination for a pro footballer Bristol is off the beaten track . There are plenty of clubs in other areas of England, be it around London, the Midlands, North, etc. So for a lot of players they may not have to uproot their family if they move to another club. Swansea and Cardiff may have had similar problems, but they have had recent success to offset this, so are not seen as a backwater.

[BS4 on Tour...]

SC can only work within the framework the current owner/ board allow him to

Yep, I have a set budget and objectives at work and I have to make sure I achieve the objectives within the agreed budget. So SC isn't alone in this, and I'm sure many many others on here have the same restrictions in their work places.

Football managers do not operate in unique working environments, and most of them at the upper end have bigger budgets than us mere mortals....

[Nibor]

you can offer a club xxx amount of millions for their players, but if you offer peanut salaries compared to other clubs, those players will not be heading to Bristol that's for sure

I think the rumour you're most likely referring to (the nonsense from the weekend that we offered Gray a pittance) is bull.  It's entirely illogical.

But let's pretend it's not... why are we bidding on players who are going to want wages that are above what we're prepared to offer?  And why are we doing so publicly?  

This is what agents and common sense are for.  **** me, half the fans will tell you that a player going for a £6m fee in the Championship will be requiring £25k+ a week in wages and if that's out of reach WTF is that player doing on our shopping list?

What we should have done is identify players that weren't recently signed for a couple of million and offer them a reasonable wage (i.e. Gray a year ago), not those who will cost a giant premium in transfer fee and then expect wages in line with an idiotic amount we shouldn't have offered in the first place.

Instead of pinning all our hopes on signing a striker from a side above us in the pecking order for three times our record fee, go and find the five or six players we needed across the team by scouting properly and sign them on reasonable wages.

Then we'd not be sat here with a squad that gives us no cover and no flexbility, still playing a system the manager has described as too open for the championship, stuck at the bottom of the table.

Are we really in a situation where basic budgeting is too complicated?

 

[stoneroses]

As far as I can see, we're not doing awfully. We have beaten Boro away, drawn away to Ipswich, drawn with Leeds and MK Dons, and in at least two of the games we lost, we were unlucky to do so. I think a lot of it is down to confidence. Get a couple of wins under our belt and it'll start to fall into place

And that my friend is why you need to get down to specsavers. 

[Iron Acton Red]

You are presuming players have turned us down purely for money.

Bristol City are not an attractive proposition, especially if you are around 24 years of age and being asked to sign a 4 year contract.

Our recent history is dire...we had one great season last year. Before that we had approx. seven seasons on a downward spiral.

Young talented players from League 1 and 2 would come here, and use us as a stepping stone....to get in the shop window.

Players like Kodijia are in a similar vein. Older experienced players like Wilbs and Elliott would come here, as it's the last big pay cheque and an opportunity to stay in this league. Other than that, the type of players we've been looking at are not interested, regardless of competitive wages. There are better options elsewhere.

Plus we have a manager that is like marmite in the football world...some love him...some hate him.

To be fair I would say most hate him

[reddogkev]

You are presuming players have turned us down purely for money.

Bristol City are not an attractive proposition, especially if you are around 24 years of age and being asked to sign a 4 year contract.

Our recent history is dire...we had one great season last year. Before that we had approx. seven seasons on a downward spiral.

Young talented players from League 1 and 2 would come here, and use us as a stepping stone....to get in the shop window.

Players like Kodijia are in a similar vein. Older experienced players like Wilbs and Elliott would come here, as it's the last big pay cheque and an opportunity to stay in this league. Other than that, the type of players we've been looking at are not interested, regardless of competitive wages. There are better options elsewhere.

Plus we have a manager that is like marmite in the football world...some love him...some hate him.

Don't agree that Bristol City are not an attractive proposition.  What do you base that on?

We are in the top 2 tiers of English football, developing our stadium - based in one of the big cities of the country, hell, played in the Championship play off final In 2007, had exposure and the win at Wembley last year.

Been around since 1897 more or less - we aren't some amateur club with this negative reputation you talk about.

Obviously, I have absolutely no knowledge of what goes on in the mind of a professional player, and the agents etc, but I can see no reason why we would be an unattractive club for a player in the modern game.

[Kid in the Riot]

I think the rumour you're most likely referring to (the nonsense from the weekend that we offered Gray a pittance) is bull.  It's entirely illogical.

But let's pretend it's not... why are we bidding on players who are going to want wages that are above what we're prepared to offer?  And why are we doing so publicly?  

This is what agents and common sense are for.  **** me, half the fans will tell you that a player going for a £6m fee in the Championship will be requiring £25k+ a week in wages and if that's out of reach WTF is that player doing on our shopping list?

What we should have done is identify players that weren't recently signed for a couple of million and offer them a reasonable wage (i.e. Gray a year ago), not those who will cost a giant premium in transfer fee and then expect wages in line with an idiotic amount we shouldn't have offered in the first place.

Instead of pinning all our hopes on signing a striker from a side above us in the pecking order for three times our record fee, go and find the five or six players we needed across the team by scouting properly and sign them on reasonable wages.

Then we'd not be sat here with a squad that gives us no cover and no flexbility, still playing a system the manager has described as too open for the championship, stuck at the bottom of the table.

Are we really in a situation where basic budgeting is too complicated?

The scary thing is even if we'd  managed to sign one of Gayle/Gray then does anyone honestly think SC would drop captain Wilbs?  Nope, it'd be Wilbs and Gayle/Gray with Kodjia on the bench...IMO of course. Doubt we'd be in any better position and £6 mill poorer for it.

[Frenchay Red]

The scary thing is even if we'd  managed to sign one of Gayle/Gray then does anyone honestly think SC would drop captain Wilbs?  Nope, it'd be Wilbs and Gayle/Gray with Kodjia on the bench...IMO of course. Doubt we'd be in any better position and £6 mill poorer for it.

Perhaps, but I seriously doubt it. Why would you pay over £8m to fill just one position. No, it would have developed into a strike partnership I'm sure.  However, strengthening the midfield is where we should have spent some money in my view. And also brought in a lower league striker with potential for a lot less. Or even better got Matt Smith back. I reckon he would have been a good partner for Kodjia.

Too late now though.

[spudski]

Don't agree that Bristol City are not an attractive proposition.  What do you base that on?

We are in the top 2 tiers of English football, developing our stadium - based in one of the big cities of the country, hell, played in the Championship play off final In 2007, had exposure and the win at Wembley last year.

Been around since 1897 more or less - we aren't some amateur club with this negative reputation you talk about.

Obviously, I have absolutely no knowledge of what goes on in the mind of a professional player, and the agents etc, but I can see no reason why we would be an unattractive club for a player in the modern game.

I base it on speaking to Agents, Scouts, managers, Coaches and some players....like I said in my post...it's not all players, but mainly the ones I pointed out.

There are far more Clubs with a better 'footballing' reputation than us, i'm afraid to say.

[cityexile]

You are presuming players have turned us down purely for money.

Bristol City are not an attractive proposition, especially if you are around 24 years of age and being asked to sign a 4 year contract.

Our recent history is dire...we had one great season last year. Before that we had approx. seven seasons on a downward spiral.

Young talented players from League 1 and 2 would come here, and use us as a stepping stone....to get in the shop window.

Players like Kodijia are in a similar vein. Older experienced players like Wilbs and Elliott would come here, as it's the last big pay cheque and an opportunity to stay in this league. Other than that, the type of players we've been looking at are not interested, regardless of competitive wages. There are better options elsewhere.

Plus we have a manager that is like marmite in the football world...some love him...some hate him.

Very nice summary. One of SCs strengths it seems is self confidence, which in this case seemed to revolve around his ability to talk players in to coming here.

It seems now like over confidence. It always seemed to me we were actually going to have to substantially over pay the market rate on this type of player to compensate them for the perceived risk of joining a newly promoted side with little track record.

I still have no idea where fault lies for that really, other than we collectively failed big time to target the right type of player.

[RumRed]

Lets face it, we've been here before.  January (new manager or not) we'll throw money at the problem whilst we're a failing club rather than building on the most successful season for a long time.  And I'm not suggesting that throwing the money pre-season would have helped, just be a little more focused on what we needed.

[Davefevs]

I will be surprised if it was the owner/board's wishes to watch players deemed not good enough to play for us in League1 playing for us in the Championship.

spot-on mate well said

which players are you referring to?  Reid and Burns?  Not good enough? Or still learning their trade, not quite ready, in need of league experience? Which is what they got.

If so, then I think most would say that Reid especially has been one if the pluses so far and  Wes (that bit younger) isn't doing himself any harm.

whether both continue their progress, or stagnate, we will just have to wait and see.

[KeepUpLino]

You are presuming players have turned us down purely for money.

Bristol City are not an attractive proposition, especially if you are around 24 years of age and being asked to sign a 4 year contract.

Our recent history is dire...we had one great season last year. Before that we had approx. seven seasons on a downward spiral.

Young talented players from League 1 and 2 would come here, and use us as a stepping stone....to get in the shop window.

Players like Kodijia are in a similar vein. Older experienced players like Wilbs and Elliott would come here, as it's the last big pay cheque and an opportunity to stay in this league. Other than that, the type of players we've been looking at are not interested, regardless of competitive wages. There are better options elsewhere.

Plus we have a manager that is like marmite in the football world...some love him...some hate him.

would a 24 join Brentford or Bournmouth over us then? I think not, this bullshit that were not a fashionable club is daft, show a player money and ambition and you will get your player.. 

 I think Cotterills the problem here and players won't join because of that and for that reason I feel the board need to re access the situation ..

[RED4LIFE]

would a 24 join Brentford or Bournmouth over us then? I think not, this bullshit that were not a fashionable club is daft, show a player money and ambition and you will get your player.. 

 I think Cotterills the problem here and players won't join because of that and for that reason I feel the board need to re access the situation ..

Yeah, why would a player join an upwardly mobile, Premier League club like Bournemouth over the mighty Bristol City?

[Arkateee]

We were given a bottom six budget to compete with, then we have a manager who gets rid of players like jet and cunningham to rival clubs, and then thinking that players are all going to come flocking to Ashton gate because it's a magnificent stadium. He aims far to high for the budget he's given, instead of aiming a lot lower to attract more realistic targets like MK Dongs have done. The damage is done, and when lansdown hits the emergency panic button, and gets rid of cotterill, what realistic manager of championship quality is going to take his place? No one. Any quality manager is going to want money in January, and that simply won't be available to spend. 

[ChippenhamRed]

We were given a bottom six budget to compete with, then we have a manager who gets rid of players like jet and cunningham to rival clubs, and then thinking that players are all going to come flocking to Ashton gate because it's a magnificent stadium. He aims far to high for the budget he's given, instead of aiming a lot lower to attract more realistic targets like MK Dongs have done. The damage is done, and when lansdown hits the emergency panic button, and gets rid of cotterill, what realistic manager of championship quality is going to take his place? No one. Any quality manager is going to want money in January, and that simply won't be available to spend. 

Why on earth wouldn't money be available to spend in January when we clearly have a sizeable transfer kitty that we haven't yet spent?

[spudski]

would a 24 join Brentford or Bournmouth over us then? I think not, this bullshit that were not a fashionable club is daft, show a player money and ambition and you will get your player.. 

 I think Cotterills the problem here and players won't join because of that and for that reason I feel the board need to re access the situation ..

While I'll agree SC isn't everyone's cup of tea to work for....I think your estimation of how attractive we are as a Club to the rest of the footballing world, is a tad rose tinted fella.

[reddogkev]

While I'll agree SC isn't everyone's cup of tea to work for....I think your estimation of how attractive we are as a Club to the rest of the footballing world, is a tad rose tinted fella.

You say you speak to people involved in the footballing fraternity - have to take your word on this.  But why do they have these negative views about BCFC?

I've supported since the early 1990's and cannot see a reason (from a fan's perspective) why we should be unfashionable or unattractive.

For example, we should be on par with Reading, Ipswich, Preston, Bournemouth, (prior to their promotion of course) to name just a few.

What reason could exist to give us such a low reputation in the game?  I simply don't agree with it.