Fitting in the loanees

[old_eastender]

Assuming Cox has been bought in to replace Wilbs, we will need a change of tactic as can't see Cox winning many hopeful high balls out of defence. Given Bennett is really out and out attacking player, perhaps Cotts has it in mind to switch Freeman to central m/f to partner Korey, that would certainly promote more on the floor passing which would suit a Kodjia/Cox pairing. Freeman could to this role, as long as he does not try dribbling past players and losing position cheaply.

Must say I thought we needed a more mobile CF to replace Wilbs and a much more athletic CM to replace Pack, so not a clear fit with bringing in Cox & Bennett. That said to do nothing was not an option, so well done to the club for trying to make some much needed change, time will tell if these are inspired signings or not.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

If he wanted to do that I'm sure he wouldn't have bought in Bennett. Bennett is a winger, he's not a central attacking player. I think we might be seeing a change of shape now which is good news. Freeman couldn't play deeper anyway.

[Guest]

I think Freeman in the middle v Forest would be obscene. It'd do him no favours, I predict he'd look crap, and it'd do Korey none either.

I agree with Tetbury's comment on a separate thread, I imagine Bennett will be taking Freeman's position if anything. 

Whether he could play in the wing back role? I don't know - I readily admit I know nothing of him - but we do know SC was open to replacing Little. 

[Spoons]

All the signs point to a change in system? I'm not sure that will be the case though. Good signing's, not sure how its possible to keep all loan signings happy? Maybe Robinson will return to villa. Bennett is a out and out winger I just hope he's not used as a wing back. Interesting times ahead. Looking forward to forest game even more now.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Hamer back too? Waste of a matchday squad place IMHO having one of the five as your sub keeper. Would O`Leary be up to it?

[JoeAman08]

Any chance Cox plays in the Freeman role? Can we assume Wilbs will get dropped? I don't think we can assume that. 

[robin_unreliant]

Don't want in any way to write them off before we've seen them play. But when Cotts said that options would open up in the loan window are these the sort of players he was thing about I wonder? Neither can get a game; or done much this year. I was thinking young, promising prem players looking for experience who couldn't get into their squad. It smacks a bit of desperation. Let's hope they both turn out to be awful.

[Davefevs]

Moore is out injured so we can gave Hamer, Baker, Robinson, Cox and Bennett for now....or have I missed someone?

[Fordy62]

Don't want in any way to write them off before we've seen them play. But when Cotts said that options would open up in the loan window are these the sort of players he was thing about I wonder? Neither can get a game; or done much this year. I was thinking young, promising prem players looking for experience who couldn't get into their squad. It smacks a bit of desperation. Let's hope they both turn out to be awful.

you'd rather untested youngsters than proven championship players in our current plight? Oh come on!

[robin_unreliant]

you'd rather untested youngsters than proven championship players in our current plight? Oh come on!

Simon Cox has proven that he was't good enough for Forest or Reading hasn't he?  He did well in L1 at Swindon but I'm not sure where he proved himself at this level. Is that the kind of proof we need right now? Bennett again did well with Brighton in L1 but what about at this level? Where is the evidence they are proven championship players?

[Ivorguy]

I am now totally confused.

We've signed two forwards when our needs are in defence and midfield. At the least we need replacements/competition for Little and Pack.

One of the new players is a winger.  We don't play with wingers and if we did we have four already - Freeman, Burns, Robinson and Agard.

As for strikers all these four can fill this role too.  Burns has scored five in twelve appearances for Wales u21s and is currently with the first team squad.  Agard scored 14 last season and 27 the season before. Robinson has scored three in eleven appearances for England u 20s.

A belief that Cox will turn out like Wilbraham and Smith is a belief that lightning will strike three times; unlikely.

As the Chinese say 'We live in interesting times'

 

 

[robin_unreliant]

Yeah I really don't get it either. However I am ever hopeful that SC turns out to be a genius and we are too stupid to see his grand plan. If we can just win a few games I won't give a flying monkey what the formation is or who is playing where!

[GrahamC]

 

No, you're right.

Can't see Moore being back from his hernia op in the next couple of weeks so these five can all be in the match day squad.

[spudski]

Bennett will be used in Little's position.

He's been used at RB and RWB before at Norwich.

Can't see SC changing formation.

Can see Cox playing in competition for Freemans position or Wilbs depending on how we want to play that day.

[ciderbeans]

People forgetting with these new signings that one of our own Bobby Reid has been outstanding the last few games he's played and deserves a start at least in place of pack although he is more suited to freemans role.

 

 

[spudski]

People forgetting with these new signings that one of our own Bobby Reid has been outstanding the last few games he's played and deserves a start at least in place of pack although he is more suited to freemans role.

I feel for Reid and Burns....both have a lot of competition for their places....unlike Bryan.

In a team that had more experience, I could see them playing, but with what we have, I can see games being few and far between....which is a shame.

Can see both eventually doing a 'Skuse' and ending up in a team with better players.

 

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

People forgetting with these new signings that one of our own Bobby Reid has been outstanding the last few games he's played and deserves a start at least in place of pack although he is more suited to freemans role.

 

 

Several impressive creative moments from Bobby, but certainly not 'outstanding' performances over whole games.

He won't replace Freeman (or Pack) by playing well for 25-30 mins. minutes a game.

[ciderbeans]

unfortunately, that is all the game time he is getting to impress but he is making the most of the time he has on the pitch atm which is more that can be said for pack, and even dare i say it freeman who in fairness, is 3 games behind everyone for sharpness if i were to give him an excuse.

 

i seem to recall a player called JET who had flashes of brilliance and was only seen to contribute 20 minutes a game. he made a big impression and achieved alot in his short time with us

[havanatopia]

Don't want in any way to write them off before we've seen them play. But when Cotts said that options would open up in the loan window are these the sort of players he was thing about I wonder? Neither can get a game; or done much this year. I was thinking young, promising prem players looking for experience who couldn't get into their squad. It smacks a bit of desperation. Let's hope they both turn out to be awful.

you'd rather untested youngsters than proven championship players in our current plight? Oh come on!

Simon Cox has proven that he was't good enough for Forest or Reading hasn't he?  He did well in L1 at Swindon but I'm not sure where he proved himself at this level. Is that the kind of proof we need right now? Bennett again did well with Brighton in L1 but what about at this level? Where is the evidence they are proven championship players?

Your highlighted remark is all that matters in this short discussion between you two; Steve Cotterill is our manager and until he stops doing that job we should support him; he knows what he is doing and is scouring the market for the best available players that, he thinks and that is all that matters, will improve us. 

To wish them to be failures is ridiculous and childish.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Think he was being ironic in a Matt Smith kind of way.

[Chappers]

Rather than be excited or gloomy, I will just say that I have absolutely no idea if these players will be good signings or not. The big plus is that it increases options, and the squad is heading towards the size needed at Championship level. As for the players, past form is not always an indicator of how well any new signing will fit in. 

My reservation is that the key weaknesses are the central midfield, and the opposition exploiting the space behind the wing backs. I struggle to understand the reluctance to try Agard or Burns with JK up front, with Wilbs as a useful sub option, or even play JK as sole striker and put an extra body in midfield. Then look to bring in experience in defence/ midfield to organise things, as it has been a tad headless chicken on occasions.

[robin_unreliant]

Think he was being ironic in a Matt Smith kind of way.

Exactly. Of course I am hoping both will emulate Matt Smith and we will soar up the table. All I was saying is I doubt these are the kind of signings SC envisaged at the start of the summer. Just shows how far he has had to lower his (and my) expectations. 

[Phileas Fogg]

People forgetting with these new signings that one of our own Bobby Reid has been outstanding the last few games he's played and deserves a start at least in place of pack although he is more suited to freemans role.

 Nice idea but that's not the answer. When on the back foot vs MK Bobby Reid wasn't useful deeper. He's good in the Freeman role but doesn't have the physicality, discipline or defensive awareness to play further back. Putting him in place of Pack, playing with Smith and Freeman, would make our midfield average height tiny and we'd get overran.

That position needs upgrading though, a must in January.

[Nogbad the Bad]

unfortunately, that is all the game time he is getting to impress but he is making the most of the time he has on the pitch atm which is more that can be said for pack, and even dare i say it freeman who in fairness, is 3 games behind everyone for sharpness if i were to give him an excuse.

 

 

No it isn't, and imo., no he isn't.

I was trying to be very clear that from what I've seen BR appears to only have a good - and it can be very good - 25-30 minute spell in him, whether he plays from the start or not. After that it seems he will inevitably fade, misplace passes, and have a limited effect on the game.

It's understandable everyone wanting an Academy product to do well, talking him up, and even giving him the odd MOTM award to boost his confidence, but while he can only impress for a limited period he won't be displacing Freeman.

Or anyone else in the long term once the novelty wears off and he starts being judged less sympathetically on the same 90 minute terms as the rest of our players.

I don't know whether there's more to come from BR in terms of stamina, concentration and consistency, but I hope so because skill and football brain wise he's clearly got the makings of a very good footballer and can be a real asset to City in the future if there is.

[JoeAman08]

No it isn't, and imo., no he isn't.

I was trying to be very clear that from what I've seen BR appears to only have a good - and it can be very good - 25-30 minute spell in him, whether he plays from the start or not. After that it seems he will inevitably fade, misplace passes, and have a limited effect on the game.

It's understandable everyone wanting an Academy product to do well, talking him up, and even giving him the odd MOTM award to boost his confidence, but while he can only impress for a limited period he won't be displacing Freeman.

Or anyone else in the long term once the novelty wears off and he starts being judged less sympathetically on the same 90 minute terms as the rest of our players.

I don't know whether there's more to come from BR in terms of stamina, concentration and consistency, but I hope so because skill and football brain wise he's clearly got the makings of a very good footballer and can be a real asset to City in the future if there is.

He is impressing though. He was quality first half against MK Dons and I don't think you can blame Bobby for the second half struggle as everyone was poor. He's never going to impress for 90 minutes if he never gets the chance and he should get some chances with how poor Freeman is playing. I do agree we get more out of bobby for 30 minutes or so but like I said, he will never be consistent it he doesn't get the chances. It's not just because he's from the academy either. It's because Luke didn't have competition and now bobby is playing well. We want him to push luke to go further while making himself a better option. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

I know it`s a stiffs league compared to the championship but he regularly did 90 for Plymouth.

[Major Isewater]

No it isn't, and imo., no he isn't.

I was trying to be very clear that from what I've seen BR appears to only have a good - and it can be very good - 25-30 minute spell in him, whether he plays from the start or not. After that it seems he will inevitably fade, misplace passes, and have a limited effect on the game.

It's understandable everyone wanting an Academy product to do well, talking him up, and even giving him the odd MOTM award to boost his confidence, but while he can only impress for a limited period he won't be displacing Freeman.

Or anyone else in the long term once the novelty wears off and he starts being judged less sympathetically on the same 90 minute terms as the rest of our players.

I don't know whether there's more to come from BR in terms of stamina, concentration and consistency, but I hope so because skill and football brain wise he's clearly got the makings of a very good footballer and can be a real asset to City in the future if there is.

Like any youngster Reid needs game time to step up to the plate.

Bryan was good in short segments but now can play effectively for the full match after having a run in the first team .

BR is far from the finished article but he has the  potential  to be very good.

[Kibs]

No it isn't, and imo., no he isn't.

I was trying to be very clear that from what I've seen BR appears to only have a good - and it can be very good - 25-30 minute spell in him, whether he plays from the start or not. After that it seems he will inevitably fade, misplace passes, and have a limited effect on the game.

It's understandable everyone wanting an Academy product to do well, talking him up, and even giving him the odd MOTM award to boost his confidence, but while he can only impress for a limited period he won't be displacing Freeman.

Or anyone else in the long term once the novelty wears off and he starts being judged less sympathetically on the same 90 minute terms as the rest of our players.

I don't know whether there's more to come from BR in terms of stamina, concentration and consistency, but I hope so because skill and football brain wise he's clearly got the makings of a very good footballer and can be a real asset to City in the future if there is.

He's been better than Pack/Freeman this season (Pack is maybe not an ideal comparison because he is more the holding midfielder). He's also outperformed Joe Bryan - who is one of our own and has rightly started to come in for some criticism so I don't think it's anything to do with people "Wanting an academy product to do well" although there's nothing wrong with that. 

I say it as I see it and IMO his problem is exactly the opposite of what you are describing. He is trying to create too often, to beat his man too often, to play the difficult pass too often. What he needs to learn is that you can't dominate (very few can) the game for 90 minutes, and that sometimes, the easy or simple option is okay. You'll then cut out a lot of the inevitable "misplaced" passes as you put it. Having said that, the last thing I'd want is to stop him playing his game because the other than Kodjia, his performances have been one of the very few positives of our season so far.

Anyway, Cox signing is a little strange - similar player to Agard (What has he done wrong?), still if it means a rest for Wilbraham, thats got to be a good thing.

Not seen too much of Bennett. Sounds like SC maybe considering a change of system/formation though. 

Would still like to see an experienced CM come in to settle them down a bit when we are on the back foot.

 

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

 

 

EDIT: In reply to Major Isewater:

Hopefully I've made it plain I share that view.

BR will be 23 next birthday, so just how long do you give a player to become the 'finished article' and realise 'potential'?

Gerry Gow was consistently holding his own in this division - and it was much more physical then - at 17/18, and visibly improved every season.

Bobby's had numerous false starts to break into the first team before. He's now at a relatively advanced age where he'll have to prove himself beyond doubt this season as an effective and reliable 90 minute player or there is every likelihood his contract will be not renewed imo.

One or two champagne moments per match, impressive as they may be, will not be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

EDIT: In reply to Major Isewater:

Hopefully I've made it plain I share that view.

BR will be 23 next birthday, so just how long do you give a player to become the 'finished article' and realise 'potential'?

Gerry Gow was consistently holding his own in this division - and it was much more physical then - at 17/18, and visibly improved every season.

Bobby's had numerous false starts to break into the first team before. He's now at a relatively advanced age where he'll have to prove himself beyond doubt this season as an effective and reliable 90 minute player or there is every likelihood his contract will be not renewed imo.

One or two champagne moments per match, impressive as they may be, will not be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Whilst he threatens to realise it and is not costing us in matches he's worth persevering with imo. I don't think it really matters how many years pass by or how old he gets, he's already shown to be a useful addition to the squad at least. 

[Major Isewater]

EDIT: In reply to Major Isewater:

Hopefully I've made it plain I share that view.

BR will be 23 next birthday, so just how long do you give a player to become the 'finished article' and realise 'potential'?

Gerry Gow was consistently holding his own in this division - and it was much more physical then - at 17/18, and visibly improved every season.

Bobby's had numerous false starts to break into the first team before. He's now at a relatively advanced age where he'll have to prove himself beyond doubt this season as an effective and reliable 90 minute player or there is every likelihood his contract will be not renewed imo.

One or two champagne moments per match, impressive as they may be, will not be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in agreement totally ,he must prove he merits his place in the starting line up . I just think that most of our youngsters have had a really tough time of it with the upheavals at the club over the last five or so years .

 

It's a miracle that Joe Bryan has got to be a regular . I believe that Reid's progress has been stunted and hope he comes good here and not at one of our competitors.

Wes is another who needs a big season or else he might  feel the need to go elsewhere to develop his career and who could blame him ?

[Shtanley]

Bennett will be used in Little's position.

He's been used at RB and RWB before at Norwich.

Can't see SC changing formation.

Can see Cox playing in competition for Freemans position or Wilbs depending on how we want to play that day.

Bennett also played LB for Brighton for a little bit too if I remember correctly.

EDIT: In reply to Major Isewater:

Hopefully I've made it plain I share that view.

BR will be 23 next birthday, so just how long do you give a player to become the 'finished article' and realise 'potential'?

Gerry Gow was consistently holding his own in this division - and it was much more physical then - at 17/18, and visibly improved every season.

Bobby's had numerous false starts to break into the first team before. He's now at a relatively advanced age where he'll have to prove himself beyond doubt this season as an effective and reliable 90 minute player or there is every likelihood his contract will be not renewed imo.

One or two champagne moments per match, impressive as they may be, will not be enough.

 

 

 

 

 

Miroslav Klose was a brick layer until he was 20. Very few make it in the team before 20 and then keep their place for a considerable amount of time. I'd say depending on the circumstances 25 is roughly when you can guess that they're not going to suddenly improve too much. But then again Drogba went to chelsea when he was 26 and look how much better he became. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Whilst he threatens to realise it and is not costing us in matches he's worth persevering with imo. I don't think it really matters how many years pass by or how old he gets, he's already shown to be a useful addition to the squad at least. 

That's an interesting way of looking at it, and in some ways I wouldn't argue.

Given though that ciderbeans made a comparison with Jet above, a long term squad/impact player, whose contribution isn't seen as consistent or vital, is unlikely to get that luxury under SC, even if his wages may bear no comparison with Jet's.

If he doesn't make the breakthrough this season would he be awarded a new contract to take him up to his mid. 20's with the real possibility he'll still only be an intermittent starter at the end of it? 

I can't see such almost unheard of patience - well, maybe James Wilson - being seen as a wise, or likely, use of wages at any club. Surely better spent on freeing up a squad place for the next Academy graduate seen as having similar great potential at a young age, and a better prospect of realising it - Morrell for instance?

If Cotterill goes - new manager always likely re- evaluate individuals and state he'll give existing players a fresh chance - or if City go down this season to a division BR is more likely to be a regular, his prospects of another contract are boosted imo.

Not to say Cotts. won't recommend one anyway, he might be convinced already, but it seems to me more likely BR needs to make an indelible mark on the first team now.

 

[havanatopia]

Think he was being ironic in a Matt Smith kind of way.

Exactly. Of course I am hoping both will emulate Matt Smith and we will soar up the table. All I was saying is I doubt these are the kind of signings SC envisaged at the start of the summer. Just shows how far he has had to lower his (and my) expectations. 

If you were intending to hurt or criticise our manager by the mocking remarks then you are being sarcastic Robin not ironic. But noted on the thrust of what you meant even if i disagree with it; ie the first part 'smacks of desperation' - I don't think this is a desperate move at all. Its late, nobody doubts that, but Steve has said over and over he will only bring players in that improve what he has when he can get them.. at any point, therefore, any new arrival is surely not desperation is it?

[robin_unreliant]

If you were intending to hurt or criticise our manager by the mocking remarks then you are being sarcastic Robin not ironic.

I'm not particularly talking about the manager. It is the club as a whole that has failed to recruit permanent players, leaving us to pick from those who basically can't get in other sides. Unlike last year when we pinched other team's best we are now searching around for those they want to offload. No idea how much part SC had to play in this. I am sure he didn't want to be here any more than we did.

[Guest]

I can't see Freeman being able to play in a midfield 2. Far too lightweight. 

[Mad Cyril]

I read the thread title and felt immediate despair.

Don't the medical teams do any checks before we sign players?

Let's hope the loanees have a full recovery.

[havanatopia]

I'm not particularly talking about the manager. It is the club as a whole that has failed to recruit permanent players, leaving us to pick from those who basically can't get in other sides. Unlike last year when we pinched other team's best we are now searching around for those they want to offload. No idea how much part SC had to play in this. I am sure he didn't want to be here any more than we did.

OK noted.