My Thoughts from Bolton Away

[Ray White]

The only player in our squad capable of playing that final ball at the moment is Bobby Reid. Unfortunately I still don't think he looks like he can perform for 90 mins and has so far shown flashes of brilliance. In January we should be looking to sign a midfielder that can score goals and create chances. 

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Ray White said:

The only player in our squad capable of playing that final ball at the moment is Bobby Reid. Unfortunately I still don't think he looks like he can perform for 90 mins and has so far shown flashes of brilliance. In January we should be looking to sign a midfielder that can score goals and create chances. 

Bobby will never perform for 90 mins if he does n't ever get 90 mins . Every player needs time to get up to speed .

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, robin4ever said:

He didn't want to come because burnley would pay him twice what we would be willing to pay probably . It's like bidding 200 million for Ronaldo and then offering him a hundred pound a week .... Gets you in the headlines as wanting to compete when really it was never likely to happen ..IMHO

Apparently we did offer better wages than burnley but their overall financial package was better (signing on fee, goal bonuses, promotion bonuses I guess) - also they are far more likely to get promoted than us. I think he was impressed with Sean Dyche too particularly after his work with Danny Ings.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, robin4ever said:

Never in a million years IMO did we offer anything like burnleys wages and very naive to think we would have. We won't break our pay structure ... Now whether that is right or wrong is another topic but we don't pay what 90 per cent of other clubs in the championship do . SL AS MUCH AS ADMITTED  when he said that he was amazed by the fees and wages being asked for since we were last in the league !!

I imagine you probably meant to quote me - but apparently we did. We all know SL likes marquee signings and would have wanted this to happen. He's not an idiot and would have known the going rate for wages for such players. Burnley are hardly QPR and their wages offered would be more *reasonable*. I would imagine we offered somewhere between 14-18k per week.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

4 hours ago, Fat Cigar said:

 Funny that people listening on the radio thought we sounded loud. I actually thought we were fairly subdued. I blame the nerves at the moment. There was usually noise coming from one section, but we rarely all sang together as one.  

Agreed, it was shite. Unfortunately I'm not old enough to have experienced games back when football was 'proper' in the 70's, 80's, but I constantly see people on here raving about how incredible it was with everyone standing, how it made for a much better atmosphere etc.. So why on earth do 90% of our fans at away games sit on their arse in complete silence? But ok, even when sitting down, which I can understand, you can still join in with a chant, but it's got to a point where people won't even do that. Can't get my head round it.

[Phileas Fogg]

30 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Agreed, it was shite. Unfortunately I'm not old enough to have experienced games back when football was 'proper' in the 70's, 80's, but I constantly see people on here raving about how incredible it was with everyone standing, how it made for a much better atmosphere etc.. So why on earth do 90% of our fans at away games sit on their arse in complete silence? But ok, even when sitting down, which I can understand, you can still join in with a chant, but it's got to a point where people won't even do that. Can't get my head round it.

It's odd - Leeds, Man United, Glasgow Rangers, Liverpool, Sheffield Weds, Pompey etc all have really good away support in terms of volume - connection? All of them stand. I appreciate not everyone can stand, but that must only be less than 10% of the support. Controversially I think people that want to sit at away games should go down the front.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

3 hours ago, cynic said:

Agree with the very poor dead ball kicks - but who is there to take them other than Pack ? Freeman maybe, he couldn't be any worse. We have Flint and Baker up for free kicks but the ball doesn't get delivered into the area - too much farting around with training ground routines which come to nothing.

I think the subs were spot on, he got fresh legs on at wing back which was understandable - unfortunately, Bryan then had a stinker and could have cost us the game with his non-defending and Little had no impact at all. The subs actually made us worse, but that wasn't SCs fault.

There are definitely more than three worse teams than us in this division and, even though we were lucky to get a point at Bolton, I'm still confident that we won't be in a relegation scrap. We're equal 12th in the form table (last 6 games) and that feels about right to me.

With regards the set pieces, I don't know what has gone wrong this season, we scored shed loads from Pack and Freeman deliveries last season. Perhaps better scouting and organisation in the Championship, although the 3 bounces of the ball before crossing the ball one we never seem to beat the 1st man.

[cider-manc]

3 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

With regards the set pieces, I don't know what has gone wrong this season, we scored shed loads from Pack and Freeman deliveries last season. Perhaps better scouting and organisation in the Championship, although the 3 bounces of the ball before crossing the ball one we never seem to beat the 1st man.

They were driving me mad yesterday- Everything just seemed to be over complicated. 

The freekick at the edge of the area... What's the need for all the players stepping over the ball if pack was just going to try and bend it round the wall anyway? The amount of times we try to be clever when perhaps the simple approach is all that's needed.

[pongo88]

2 hours ago, Chairman Mao said:

lets be honest, we wilted badly in the second half and in the end were lucky to get a draw, our replacements were so rubbish, Little and Byran look badly out of their depth

This is the problem with working with a small squad. Last season we could get away with it. This season we don't have sufficient good players to cope with loss of form / injuries / suspensions. This isn't likely to change in the short term due to the difficulties in signing players. I think we've got to get used to a couple of seasons of struggling as Cotts gradually strengthens the team

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

This is the problem with working with a small squad. Last season we could get away with it. This season we don't have sufficient good players to cope with loss of form / injuries / suspensions. This isn't likely to change in the short term due to the difficulties in signing players. I think we've got to get used to a couple of seasons of struggling as Cotts gradually strengthens the team

I expect us to go for it a bit more when the stadium is complete 

[One BCFC]

All that needed to be done yesterday was throughballs to Kodjia and Agard, they hadthem for pace every time. They fart around with it in and around the box and it ends up back to Fielding. Football is a simple game and we had them for pace upfront yesterday and we chose not to utilise that.

Korey Smith well he was fantastic again I thought and is relishing being the captain. 

Joe Bryan come on and I feel sorry for the lad he has lost a yard of pace, is being easily knocked off the ball and positioning is terrible. Whats happened to him?!

 

Baker and Flint were great again but Ayling nearly cost us the game a few times in the 2nd half by losing his man constantly

So frustrating as we all know this side can do better and the talent is there.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's odd - Leeds, Man United, Glasgow Rangers, Liverpool, Sheffield Weds, Pompey etc all have really good away support in terms of volume - connection? All of them stand. I appreciate not everyone can stand, but that must only be less than 10% of the support. Controversially I think people that want to sit at away games should go down the front.

Yep, even Arsenal who have dire home support all stand and create a good atmosphere at away games.

We have so few that actually stand that even sitting halfway up is usually fine. What annoys me is when things like the following occur: 

Chesterfield away last season, game has already kicked off. I'm stood in the 2nd row from the back and the 2 rows in front of me are also standing. A man, old lady and small child come in late, up the steps to where I am and ask us to move as we're in their seats. I could not comprehend why on earth they would want to go there as the woman and boy wouldn't be able to see the game, as everyone in front of them was clearly standing. Fine, we move. I look over to them halfway through the first half and shock, they couldn't see a thing. Absolutely loads of space at the front as well.

[REDOXO]

4 hours ago, robin4ever said:

To get a striker to improve out team then we OBVIOUSLY need to pay the going rate for a good championship striker .... We or should I say SL is not prepared to do that and break our wage structure. Therefore with a bottom 4 budget we have to work with what we have got ... And IMO we are making a good fist of it ..... That is my point. So many experts on here saying a lot of out starting eleven are not good enough ... Fact is they have to be until lee are willing to compete financially

 

4 hours ago, robin4ever said:

We can't afford the striker to improve out starting eleven , otherwise we would have signed him. 

Great OP....However as above....**** me not this again!...Andre Gray got a better offer from us but went to Burnley because he thought they had a better chance of promotion....See Link....And that would him seem a pretty good decision right now

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13631980.Burnley_a_better_place_than_Bristol_City_for_me__says_new_Clarets_striker_Andre_Gray/

Lindegard wanted to try and break into the United team and did not want to come down a division...He declined to come and guess what he scored for United yesterday....He too would think he made a bloody good decision despite Van Gaal wanting to sell him to us in the summer

Gayle was offered a super contract also did not want to drop a league and has been playing in and around the Palace first team...Also he would thik a good decision...

The problem is not the lack of SL and the board wanting these players....Two reasons dictate who we have

1 We are a backwater football club with three stands that has done nothing and carries little Kudos with quality players and as such when you're earning a god damn fortune anyway that bit extra has little impact particularly if you are in or aspire to be in the Premier league

2 We cant fill our side with expensive signings under FFP we can make some and SL will sanction and pay within the rules....

The urban legend that you espouse I'm sure will continue to exist with some!

[JoeAman08]

26 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

Great OP....However as above....**** me not this again!...Andre Gray got a better offer from us but went to Burnley because he thought they had a better chance of promotion....See Link....And that would him seem a pretty good decision right now

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13631980.Burnley_a_better_place_than_Bristol_City_for_me__says_new_Clarets_striker_Andre_Gray/

Lindegard wanted to try and break into the United team and did not want to come down a division...He declined to come and guess what he scored for United yesterday....He too would think he made a bloody good decision despite Van Gaal wanting to sell him to us in the summer

Gayle was offered a super contract also did not want to drop a league and has been playing in and around the Palace first team...Also he would thik a good decision...

The problem is not the lack of SL and the board wanting these players....Two reasons dictate who we have

1 We are a backwater football club with three stands that has done nothing and carries little Kudos with quality players and as such when you're earning a god damn fortune anyway that bit extra has little impact particularly if you are in or aspire to be in the Premier league

2 We cant fill our side with expensive signings under FFP we can make some and SL will sanction and pay within the rules....

The urban legend that you espouse I'm sure will continue to exist with some!

I think you're spot on here. We tried to bring in quality and I'm sure we offered them nice packages. All 3 bet on themselves and it has appeared to pay off for all three of them. I'm happy with the quality of players we are after. Now that the window is over and have had time to reflect, I'm glad we are being patient. I hope there is a plan in January though. Hope some players are more willing to leave for game time by then. This team can stay up as I think there some woeful teams in this division. If we can add just 1 or 2 quality players in January, we will stay up with ease. Being patient should work but I just wish there was a plan we as fans could see to make the struggle a bit easier to deal with. 

[pongo88]

5 hours ago, Chairman Mao said:

lets be honest, we wilted badly in the second half and in the end were lucky to get a draw, our replacements were so rubbish, Little and Byran look badly out of their depth

This is the problem with working with a small squad. Last season we could get away with it. This season we don't have sufficient good players to cope with loss of form / injuries / suspensions. This isn't likely to change in the short term due to the difficulties in signing players. I think we've got to get used to a couple of seasons of struggling as Cotts gradually strengthens the team

[Phileas Fogg]

39 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Yep, even Arsenal who have dire home support all stand and create a good atmosphere at away games.

We have so few that actually stand that even sitting halfway up is usually fine. What annoys me is when things like the following occur: 

Chesterfield away last season, game has already kicked off. I'm stood in the 2nd row from the back and the 2 rows in front of me are also standing. A man, old lady and small child come in late, up the steps to where I am and ask us to move as we're in their seats. I could not comprehend why on earth they would want to go there as the woman and boy wouldn't be able to see the game, as everyone in front of them was clearly standing. Fine, we move. I look over to them halfway through the first half and shock, they couldn't see a thing. Absolutely loads of space at the front as well.

Totally, more reason why we should do what Stoke do. They sell away tickets and when you buy them they ask if you want to sit or stand - if you say sit they allocate you a ticket towards the front of the stand. I submitted this to DL and he fobbed me off as to why it couldn't be done. I want it tried at a game with a big following like Fulham. Think it could be a good idea.

[pongo88]

34 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

The problem is not the lack of SL and the board wanting these players....Two reasons dictate who we have

1 We are a backwater football club with three stands that has done nothing and carries little Kudos with quality players and as such when you're earning a god damn fortune anyway that bit extra has little impact particularly if you are in or aspire to be in the Premier league

2 We cant fill our side with expensive signings under FFP we can make some and SL will sanction and pay within the rules....

 

This is a sad summary of the situation, but unfortunately it's true. 

[REDOXO]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think you're spot on here. We tried to bring in quality and I'm sure we offered them nice packages. All 3 bet on themselves and it has appeared to pay off for all three of them. I'm happy with the quality of players we are after. Now that the window is over and have had time to reflect, I'm glad we are being patient. I hope there is a plan in January though. Hope some players are more willing to leave for game time by then. This team can stay up as I think there some woeful teams in this division. If we can add just 1 or 2 quality players in January, we will stay up with ease. Being patient should work but I just wish there was a plan we as fans could see to make the struggle a bit easier to deal with. 

I think we can do a lot better than stay up Joe, but I agree we are two signings away from having something really substantial to build on..

On a not completely unrelated note Bolaise scores at Anfield....What price a transfer for him in the window???? This will help enormously!

 

[Shtanley]

I like your post but if you look at who else has failed to beat Bolton away and they're not going to be languishing in the bottom 6. 

[Ray White]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Bobby will never perform for 90 mins if he does n't ever get 90 mins . Every player needs time to get up to speed .

That's a very valid point but at the moment it looks like Cotts is going with more 'experienced' players. I think this is down to the fact that we are struggling so Reid won't be getting 90 anytime soon.

[Major Isewater]

37 minutes ago, Ray White said:

That's a very valid point but at the moment it looks like Cotts is going with more 'experienced' players. I think this is down to the fact that we are struggling so Reid won't be getting 90 anytime soon.

Well are we more likely to give him 90mins when the team's struggling or replace a member of a team that's doing well ? 

[CotswoldRed]

18 hours ago, REDOXO said:

I think we can do a lot better than stay up Joe, but I agree we are two signings away from having something really substantial to build on..

On a not completely unrelated note Bolaise scores at Anfield....What price a transfer for him in the window???? This will help enormously!

 

That would be very helpful.  I can't help but think that if it did happen, the Bolasie transfer will happen at the last minute - too late for us to respond to the influx of cash.

[Curr Avon]

21 hours ago, REDOXO said:

 

Great OP....However as above....**** me not this again!...Andre Gray got a better offer from us but went to Burnley because he thought they had a better chance of promotion....See Link....And that would him seem a pretty good decision right now

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/13631980.Burnley_a_better_place_than_Bristol_City_for_me__says_new_Clarets_striker_Andre_Gray/

 

In the article Gray states; "“I respect Bristol, they came up with a lot of money for me and showed massive interest in me and I can’t thank them enough for that, but the best decision for me and my career was to come here.”

'A lot of money' could refer to the transfer fee we offered, not Gray's wages. As I understand it, Burnley offered nearly twice the weekly amount that City put on the table.

[REDOXO]

32 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

In the article Gray states; "“I respect Bristol, they came up with a lot of money for me and showed massive interest in me and I can’t thank them enough for that, but the best decision for me and my career was to come here.”

'A lot of money' could refer to the transfer fee we offered, not Gray's wages. As I understand it, Burnley offered nearly twice the weekly amount that City put on the table.

Selective quoting as below....However if you want to believe it is ALL SL's fault for not offering the wages you go right ahead...Greys new team are close to top of the league, Lindgard is getting a game at United and Gayle has been getting games at Palace, but is currently injured. We cant have a clue what Burnley put on the table in wages, but clearly as a club with parachute money which means they can go and get ten Gayles they offer a better likliehood of promotion, which is the clear implication....Until we are averaging 18-20,000 and have a rebuilt stadium we can not hope to get in these kind of players, this is where the club made it's error in its transfer policy this summer, not the much whinged about not offering enough money to individuals...The best decision of the summer was Codger and I suspect he is earning decently enough and I suspect we may be looking abroad again....

QUOTE 

It was a career decision for me,” said Burnley’s record £6million signing, who watched last weekend’s first win of the season from the stands.

“A lot of people will be out there saying it was money or whatever but it was nothing like that.

“That wasn’t a big part of it whatsoever. It was about football and what I want to do with my career, not just for now but for the future.

“Sitting down with people that are close to me and people that know the game as well, we thought that this was the best decision for me.

[Curr Avon]

3 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Selective quoting as below....However if you want to believe it is ALL SL's fault for not offering the wages you go right ahead...Greys new team are close to top of the league, Lindgard is getting a game at United and Gayle has been getting games at Palace, but is currently injured. We cant have a clue what Burnley put on the table in wages, but clearly as a club with parachute money which means they can go and get ten Gayles they offer a better likliehood of promotion, which is the clear implication....Until we are averaging 18-20,000 and have a rebuilt stadium we can not hope to get in these kind of players, this is where the club made it's error in its transfer policy this summer, not the much whinged about not offering enough money to individuals...The best decision of the summer was Codger and I suspect he is earning decently enough and I suspect we may be looking abroad again....

QUOTE 

It was a career decision for me,” said Burnley’s record £6million signing, who watched last weekend’s first win of the season from the stands.

“A lot of people will be out there saying it was money or whatever but it was nothing like that.

“That wasn’t a big part of it whatsoever. It was about football and what I want to do with my career, not just for now but for the future.

“Sitting down with people that are close to me and people that know the game as well, we thought that this was the best decision for me.

You're right, Gray has probably made the right decision, based on Burnley's financial status and League position. However, I didn't make any reference to SL; you did that. I was only inferring that Gray's statement wasn't conclusive in relation to wages in my quote. The additional quotes that you provided are still ambiguous.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

You're right, Gray has probably made the right decision, based on Burnley's financial status and League position. However, I didn't make any reference to SL; you did that. I was only inferring that Gray's statement wasn't conclusive in relation to wages in my quote. The additional quotes that you provided are still ambiguous.

You are right Avon...robinforever did that in an earlier post that I originally responded to, however the inference is in the entire saga is SL would not put his hand deep enough in his pocket to match Burnley's offer on wages, (or to tempt Lindegard or Gayle) which I believe is one you made in your original post..

"A lot of money' could refer to the transfer fee we offered, not Gray's wages. As I understand it, Burnley offered nearly twice the weekly amount that City put on the table."

Again there is no evidence of an offer of twice as much as you state and plenty of evidence to suggest he choose a better option in his opinion regardless of money.  Which we both agree looks like a good one right now for a guy that wants Premier League Footy!

However at this point I will agree to disagree...:laugh:!

 

 

 

[Curr Avon]

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

You are right Avon...robinforever did that in an earlier post that I originally responded to, however the inference is in the entire saga is SL would not put his hand deep enough in his pocket to match Burnley's offer on wages, (or to tempt Lindegard or Gayle) which I believe is one you made in your original post..

"A lot of money' could refer to the transfer fee we offered, not Gray's wages. As I understand it, Burnley offered nearly twice the weekly amount that City put on the table."

Again there is no evidence of an offer of twice as much as you state and plenty of evidence to suggest he choose a better option in his opinion regardless of money.  Which we both agree looks like a good one right now for a guy that wants Premier League Footy!

However at this point I will agree to disagree...:laugh:!

 

 

 

That's a very fair minded response, Redoxo. You're a gentleman; thank you. And I bet we both wish that young Andre was partnering Kodjia right now. Sniff....sniff.

[CotswoldRed]

57 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

That's a very fair minded response, Redoxo. You're a gentleman; thank you. And I bet we both wish that young Andre was partnering Kodjia right now. Sniff....sniff.

Bloody hell, a Gray/Kodjia partnership would storm the Championship imo. 

[Son of Fred]

On 08/11/2015 10:01:14, Major Isewater said:

Thanks for your post . I think you are on the money .

Why ,oh why , did n't Cotts try and sign another  striker in the summer ? ...  He has also spoken of needing a midfielder , where is this midfielder ? Someone in the style of Elliott would be fantastic .

Pack is not the answer from set pièces ,anybody believe that he will score from his free kicks ? ... thought not . I'm not knocking the guy he is a valuable player for us but Beckham he ain't !

 Freeman appears badly off the boil at the moment and again his goal return is not brilliant . He plugs away and I hope it comes right for him but frankly he's having a stinker of a season at the moment . Being sent off ,missing sitters and penalties not given for him ,what a contrast to last season .

Elliot???!!!!......someone NOT in the style of..please.

[BS4 on Tour...]

19 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Elliot???!!!!......someone NOT in the style of..please.

So you didn't rate Elliot?

And are you referring to Marvin or Wade?