Who has stepped up to the plate ?

[REDTURK]

With a third of the season now consigned to the history books  it might be worth reviewing how our players have adapted to life in the Championship.

I've seen a couple of games only this season at the rapidly improving Ashton Gate and one away game ( home end) along with a couple of televised games.

We had in many respects a remarkable and joyous season last  year.

Who do you think out of the class of 2014/2015 has managed to make that step up from League 1 football to Championship football so far?

I had high hopes that many would take this step in their stride but alas I feel from what I have seen so far and the comments made on this forum  that only the following have managed to look consistently comfortable at the moment

Luke Ayling

Korey Smith

Frank Fielding

Marlon Pack

Derrick Williams

I think that the biggest disappointments for me so far are:

Luke Freeman. - Has yet to come to terms with being closed down quicker in this league. Also he looks less agile this year?

Joe Bryan - Seems to be less confident this year... is he carrying some sort of minor injury?

Aiden Flint - As above but appears to play better with Nathan Baker in the team

 

 

 

[Murraysrightplum]

Luke Freeman, judging by his gut.

 

(joke!!!!)

[JoeAman08]

My opinion is that we have 4 above average championship players. Baker, Bennett, Smith & Kodjia. After that I believe we have 2 average(at the moment) championship players in Williams and Pack. Bryan and Freeman have been way off the pace. Wilbs, Flint and Fielding have all been below average. Ayling isn't really a CB. Fantastic with the ball and can be woeful defensively. So not sure where to place him. 

Our bench is rarely used so it's hard to say. That gives us at best 6 championship players. Not good enough. Sure everyone can get better as it is most of their first go in this league. Just hope we can stay up through the struggle.

those are my opinions based off the last few games anyway. It took some like Williams and Pack some time to look more comfortable. Not to say we couldn't improve in those positions but they are looking like quality players at the moment. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

My opinion is that we have 4 above average championship players. Baker, Bennett, Smith & Kodjia. After that I believe we have 2 average(at the moment) championship players in Williams and Pack. Bryan and Freeman have been way off the pace. Wilbs, Flint and Fielding have all been below average. Ayling isn't really a CB. Fantastic with the ball and can be woeful defensively. So not sure where to place him. 

Our bench is rarely used so it's hard to say. That gives us at best 6 championship players. Not good enough. Sure everyone can get better as it is most of their first go in this league. Just hope we can stay up through the struggle.

those are my opinions based off the last few games anyway. It took some like Williams and Pack some time to look more comfortable. Not to say we couldn't improve in those positions but they aret looking like quality players at the moment. 

Pretty much agree with all of that. Might put Frankie a bit better than below average and Luke Ayling is a real puzzle - dreadful one minute and a world beater the next.

[Kodjia 22]

1 hour ago, REDTURK said:

Aiden Flint - As above but appears to play better with Nathan Baker in the team

 

 

 

I think when Aden has Baker along side him he looks more comfortable due to the fact baker appears to assist the marshalling of the defence. Something Baker is good at is whenever someone makes a mistake, you seem to see him pop up with a perfectly timed last ditch block or tackle, which takes so much pressure off Aden to do all the defending himself.

[AshtonGreat]

Freeman has been decent in the games I've seen this season

[Roe]

They've all looked very competent at times but probably all have possibly raised a few questions here and there as well. Arguably what you'd expect 15 games in from a group of players that are mostly new to this level.

With the possible exception of Korey Smith, I wouldn't say any of our players have been consistently good enough tbg.

Even though we could do with a quality addition there, I think we've probably had the least problems in midfield. Pack has been solid and we've shaded the majority of possession in most games and played some good football at times too. Korey Smith has been excellent in our 3 wins and was a big miss in a few of the close games we could've won (Ipswich, MK etc). Freeman hasn't quite stood out enough but again has showed potential (voted MOM against Forest for example).

The majority of our "problems" have come from losing our shape (when we decide to play with one that is) far too easily and failing to convert key chances when we have been on top in games. Kodjia (who has been very impressive so far but still could've done even better) and Wilbraham built up a decent partnership without really excelling - 13 goals together before Agard came in, who it's worth noting has also put in a couple of key shifts (goal against Leeds and ran his socks off the last 2 games) so far despite a lack of fitness and game time.

We've been poor from set pieces (attacking and defensively).

Ayling and Williams have left Flint exposed too often which is a shame seeing as they were such a solid unit for most of last season. Baker coming in has helped hugely.

I find it hard to judge Fielding. He hasn't commanded the defence enough at times but has made some important saves at others.

 

We're competing at this level which is the most important thing at this stage imo and nearly all the players in the squad should only get better from here. I think we're in for some exciting times ahead as long as everyone's patient for the short term.  We just need to keep holding our own for the next few months, hopefully add one or two quality additions in January and then have a positive close to the season.

[And Its Smith]

People being very harsh on Freeman.  He was outstanding last year and is obviously finding it more difficult this season but, on the whole, he has been good.  Had great reviews from opposing fans too. 

 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

I'd say Ayling, Flint, Williams, Pack, Smith, Reid have.

Fielding and Wilbraham haven't stepped up in my opinion but I'm not too disappointed with that as I didn't think they would excel in this league anyway.

Freeman and Bryan have been disappointing and I don't think either warrant a place in the side at the moment, which is odd considering I had them nailed on to do well this season.

Hard to judge the likes of Little, Agard, Burns with limited game time so far. Although Agard has looked good in the two games he's started, and Burns has done well off the bench. Forgotten man is Wagstaff, we should try to find him a club.

[Bs4Red]

13 minutes ago, RedDave said:

People being very harsh on Freeman.  He was outstanding last year and is obviously finding it more difficult this season but, on the whole, he has been good.  Had great reviews from opposing fans too. 

 

What I find with Freeman is he is very much a busy player, he doesn't do it for me in honesty and also thought he was very overhyped last season however did have a good season but he is the man everybody says 'freeman nearly' 'freeman could have' 'if only freeman' I believe that's why opposite teams rate him so highly. For me I think BR has been more influential in the games he's played but granted tires with 20 left.

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

What I find with Freeman is he is very much a busy player, he doesn't do it for me in honesty and also thought he was very overhyped last season however did have a good season but he is the man everybody says 'freeman nearly' 'freeman could have' 'if only freeman' I believe that's why opposite teams rate him so highly. For me I think BR has been more influential in the games he's played but granted tires with 20 left.

Teams often double up on him which should be creating space elsewhere.  

I would try him further forward, where hopefully he gets more space and bring Reid into midfield. 

 

[Bs4Red]

5 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Teams often double up on him which should be creating space elsewhere.  

I would try him further forward, where hopefully he gets more space and bring Reid into midfield. 

 

Understand your thinking, the 10 role could be perfect for him, midfield and defence don't know if he's there's or not. 

I believe Freeman was massively overhyped last year and it's having a major effect on him this season. I hope I'm wrong but I think he's a good L1 player/low champ player at best 

[BS30 Reds]

10 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

What I find with Freeman is he is very much a busy player, he doesn't do it for me in honesty and also thought he was very overhyped last season however did have a good season but he is the man everybody says 'freeman nearly' 'freeman could have' 'if only freeman' I believe that's why opposite teams rate him so highly. For me I think BR has been more influential in the games he's played but granted tires with 20 left.

Overhyped?? If I remember correctly was voted in the top 3 players by the players of league 1 last year? Most assists in the league last year?

But yeah definitely overhyped...

[Wanderingred]

Hmmm... I swear remember after the first month or so, people saying that Freeman was our only outlet of quality and that he has taken to the championship like a duck to water. Did I imagine that or has he faded badly after starting well?

 

[Roe]

16 minutes ago, Kim_il_sung said:

Hmmm... I swear remember after the first month or so, people saying that Freeman was our only outlet of quality and that he has taken to the championship like a duck to water. Did I imagine that or has he faded badly after starting well?

 

Sounds unlikely seeing as he got sent off in the 2nd game and missed the next 3..

[WhistleHappy]

Bloody heck, football, football, football! ... Thought this thread was gonna be interesting, with a debate about qualities (&quantities) of finger foods consumed at buffets... Dammit I didn't know I loved 'em til I saw the sausage rolls! ...

[Robin1988]

11 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

What I find with Freeman is he is very much a busy player, he doesn't do it for me in honesty and also thought he was very overhyped last season however did have a good season but he is the man everybody says 'freeman nearly' 'freeman could have' 'if only freeman' I believe that's why opposite teams rate him so highly. For me I think BR has been more influential in the games he's played but granted tires with 20 left.

I thought Freeman was fantastic last season, he was the creative link we haven't seen in a City midfielder for many years. And his set pieces were top notch, as his assist tally shows.

This year he really hasn't stepped up. Against Wolves he was getting into the positions he used to but you could see how the confidence had drained from him in taking a risk and picking an early pass. He's never going to be one to shirk responsibility, but I don't feel like his head is quite there at the moment, for whatever reason. Last year he looked like he could play in the Premier League and I think he still could, easily. He's facing a tough patch but it's not because he's not good enough.

[Snufflelufagus]

For me they have all done ok. I think we really only have 1 match winner in the team though in Kodja though.

[Roe]

3 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

There is little point in having Wagstaff, Cox, Hamer, Moore, or Robinson at the club as they are offering nothing to the first team and are bench fillers. You can possibly add Burns to that who needs  a season on loan at L1.

Is it realistic for us to have a whole squad of players good enough for this level that doesn't have a few bench fillers though? Everyone moaned when we had no backup and now they're moaning that the backup is too umm backupy and not worth having. That's not a dig at you, I just wondered what people expected in general? We were never gonna have a complete squad in our first season at this level even if we'd have had a better summer transfer wise.

Wagstaff's been injured all season so even though it's hard to see where he'd fit in to Cotterill's plans, it's worth noting that he hasn't been a choice yet anyway.

[Roe]

5 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

For me they have all done ok. I think we really only have 1 match winner in the team though in Kodja though.

In terms of goalscoring maybe but it's worth noting that the few games we have won were mainly down to Korey Smith, Flint, Baker, and Hamer (at Middlesbrough) not to mention a few others putting in key shifts (Williams, Pack, Ayling, Bennett, Reid Agard etc). Defence is vital imo as billywedlock said about signing Baker (or someone of that ilk as we did try to in the summer).

[Bs4Red]

1 hour ago, BS30 Reds said:

Overhyped?? If I remember correctly was voted in the top 3 players by the players of league 1 last year? Most assists in the league last year?

But yeah definitely overhyped...

 

41 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I thought Freeman was fantastic last season, he was the creative link we haven't seen in a City midfielder for many years. And his set pieces were top notch, as his assist tally shows.

This year he really hasn't stepped up. Against Wolves he was getting into the positions he used to but you could see how the confidence had drained from him in taking a risk and picking an early pass. He's never going to be one to shirk responsibility, but I don't feel like his head is quite there at the moment, for whatever reason. Last year he looked like he could play in the Premier League and I think he still could, easily. He's facing a tough patch but it's not because he's not good enough.

I understand both your points, however I personally think he had the same problems last year as he did this year, he takes to long on the ball and doesn't make the pass early enough, it just wasn't noticeable last year as we were dominating constantly.

He was top of the assist list, however as I said before only 6 assists from open play which is fairly average. Set pieces last year compared to last year? Worse defenders last year so struggled to defend against the height we possessed. Also makes it a lot easier for him when we had 21 Goal 6"4 Wilbs, 15 goal 6"6 smith and 15 goal 6"5 Flint. 

Realistically if he takes 5 corners a game + 3 free kick in attacking positions every game.  8*46=368

Thats probably more due to doniment city were. So 368 crosses, I'd back myself to get 10/15 assist with Flint Wilbs Pack Smith in the box and I play toolstation football.

Now I'm not knocking his achievements but I'm trying to show another side of why he's struggling so much. It hasn't been one or two games, I personally haven't seen him have a great game and I've seen 13/15.

Final interesting fact, LF has never scored at AG...

Premier League? Not for me, only player that would play in the prem from our current squad is Smithy and possibly Baker.

Overhyped? I think so

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Pretty much agree with all that has been said, even if I have missed last three games live. What it highlights is that we need to sign Baker as having a proper defence is essential (yes he is expensive but we were bidding 10 million for strikers) and possibly also Bennet. 

There is little point in having Wagstaff, Cox, Hamer, Moore, or Robinson at the club as they are offering nothing to the first team and are bench fillers. You can possibly add Burns to that who needs  a season on loan at L1. 

So basically we have only 4 or 5 players doing it at this level, which shows how far we are off , and how difficult it has been for others to raise themselves to this higher division. None of this helped by a debacle in the transfer market last summer, but confirms also we are 7 or 8 players off a squad that will compete well . But based on Kodja and following Southampton, we need to be looking at French, Dutch and Belgium leagues. 

To help with our global BCFC thread we need players from Uruguay , Venezuela , Western Samoa ... 

[Snufflelufagus]

59 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

 

I understand both your points, however I personally think he had the same problems last year as he did this year, he takes to long on the ball and doesn't make the pass early enough, it just wasn't noticeable last year as we were dominating constantly.

He was top of the assist list, however as I said before only 6 assists from open play which is fairly average. Set pieces last year compared to last year? Worse defenders last year so struggled to defend against the height we possessed. Also makes it a lot easier for him when we had 21 Goal 6"4 Wilbs, 15 goal 6"6 smith and 15 goal 6"5 Flint. 

Realistically if he takes 5 corners a game + 3 free kick in attacking positions every game.  8*46=368

Thats probably more due to doniment city were. So 368 crosses, I'd back myself to get 10/15 assist with Flint Wilbs Pack Smith in the box and I play toolstation football.

Now I'm not knocking his achievements but I'm trying to show another side of why he's struggling so much. It hasn't been one or two games, I personally haven't seen him have a great game and I've seen 13/15.

Final interesting fact, LF has never scored at AG...

Premier League? Not for me, only player that would play in the prem from our current squad is Smithy and possibly Baker.

Overhyped? I think so

That is very interesting. For me he gets in good positions but his actual shooting is not very good. He either scuffs it or smashes it over the bar. I would have him at shooting practice all week.

[Robin1988]

58 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

I understand both your points, however I personally think he had the same problems last year as he did this year, he takes to long on the ball and doesn't make the pass early enough, it just wasn't noticeable last year as we were dominating constantly.

He was top of the assist list, however as I said before only 6 assists from open play which is fairly average. Set pieces last year compared to last year? Worse defenders last year so struggled to defend against the height we possessed. Also makes it a lot easier for him when we had 21 Goal 6"4 Wilbs, 15 goal 6"6 smith and 15 goal 6"5 Flint. 

Realistically if he takes 5 corners a game + 3 free kick in attacking positions every game.  8*46=368

Thats probably more due to doniment city were. So 368 crosses, I'd back myself to get 10/15 assist with Flint Wilbs Pack Smith in the box and I play toolstation football.

Now I'm not knocking his achievements but I'm trying to show another side of why he's struggling so much. It hasn't been one or two games, I personally haven't seen him have a great game and I've seen 13/15.

Final interesting fact, LF has never scored at AG...

Premier League? Not for me, only player that would play in the prem from our current squad is Smithy and possibly Baker.

Overhyped? I think so

I don't remember the frustration of seeing him labour over a pass last season as much as he did last Tuesday, he was equally woeful against Fulham too and it was noticeable. In terms of his contribution in open play, while he didn't always provide the final pass, he was instrumental in our positive, pacey attacking play and if anything the most decisive player on the ball we've had in a while.

Assists are, arguably, more relevant when it comes to set-pieces, since it's a more black-and-white picture than the build-up to a goal in open play, and using that argument he passes with flying colours. Flint could be 10' tall but if the ball to him is terrible he's not going to score. Taking good corners is an art, highlighted by our own inability to do so in recent years, so I think you do Freeman a massive disservice personally.

No it hasn't been one or two games, but then he is new to this league, as are Bryan and Flint, who have both not found the same form they had before. But look at Flint when he joined City and how far he's come, and Bryan's improvements last year. Just because they haven't stepped up yet doesn't mean they won't, the difference between League 1 and the Championship is significantly bigger than when we left but it's not insurmountable, in good time.

[Super]

Strange as the person I thought would outshine them all has been the biggest let down so far. Freeman.

[Bs4Red]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

I don't remember the frustration of seeing him labour over a pass last season as much as he did last Tuesday, he was equally woeful against Fulham too and it was noticeable. In terms of his contribution in open play, while he didn't always provide the final pass, he was instrumental in our positive, pacey attacking play and if anything the most decisive player on the ball we've had in a while.

Assists are, arguably, more relevant when it comes to set-pieces, since it's a more black-and-white picture than the build-up to a goal in open play, and using that argument he passes with flying colours. Flint could be 10' tall but if the ball to him is terrible he's not going to score. Taking good corners is an art, highlighted by our own inability to do so in recent years, so I think you do Freeman a massive disservice personally.

No it hasn't been one or two games, but then he is new to this league, as are Bryan and Flint, who have both not found the same form they had before. But look at Flint when he joined City and how far he's come, and Bryan's improvements last year. Just because they haven't stepped up yet doesn't mean they won't, the difference between League 1 and the Championship is significantly bigger than when we left but it's not insurmountable, in good time.

I'm not writing him off but everyone who is hyping him up needs to calm down. I agree taking set pieces is an art but if you are the main set piece taker and take 368, you should get 30 assists. 1 every 10. Disagree about open play, personally think he is slow on the ball and was last season but against slower team it wasn't as bad.

I just feel the guy gets praise on the back of last years achievements. I don't doubt he's a good player but people touting him for the prem? I do t think so 

[Bs4Red]

2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Surprised all talk has now fallen on Luke. I think he is in the mid area of getting to grips with the league. He is more than able to make the step in my view, but is also adapting to a very different scenario. Reid has more attacking prowess from what I have seen, but still makes errors and poor decisions, which ruins the hard work and makes him a liability. If either were perfect they would not be at BCFC anyway. I still think Bobby needs a few months of playing every week at a L1 club to get his consitency improved. 

I would suggest Bryan has been the one who has really bombed, and I for one thought with his improvements last year, and his pace and ability, he would have nailed it. Loss of form, and the team struggling will not have helped, and I sense SC wants him to up his level. 

The lack of a credible partner for Kodja is the biggest hole we have in the team, and I guess if we had managed to sign Gayle, we would probably be in the top 6 right now. It really does seems small margins , far more than when we were in this league last time. 

Whilst I think he hasn't done extremely well so far, I think people forget that he played the first 3 or 4 games with an injury and I believe he hasn't fully recovered from that. He hasn't had the same explosive pace he normally does and has changed his running style. It's a lot more of a skate, like he doesn't want to open his groin up

[Kid in the Riot]

13 hours ago, RedDave said:

Teams often double up on him which should be creating space elsewhere.  

I would try him further forward, where hopefully he gets more space and bring Reid into midfield. 

I don't think teams double up on Freeman, he just runs down too many dead ends and is slow to release the ball so gets surrounded. The quality of his end product at the moment would not justify teams doubling up on him.

Personally I'm at a point now where I'd like to see Reid given a game ahead of him. Freeman could have no complaints. Reid played 90 mins in probably our best win of the season at Boro so clearly nonsense to suggest he can't perform over an entire game, which some frequently do on here.

[Nogbad the Bad]

19 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I don't think teams double up on Freeman, he just runs down too many dead ends and is slow to release the ball so gets surrounded. The quality of his end product at the moment would not justify teams doubling up on him.

Personally I'm at a point now where I'd like to see Reid given a game ahead of him. Freeman could have no complaints. Reid played 90 mins in probably our best win of the season at Boro so clearly nonsense to suggest he can't perform over an entire game, which some frequently do on here.

 Reid was knackered in the 2nd half at M'Boro according to RB commentary and had ceased being effective long before he was subbed in the 78th minute.

[Nogbad the Bad]

19 hours ago, REDTURK said:

 

I had high hopes that many would take this step in their stride but alas I feel from what I have seen so far and the comments made on this forum  that only the following have managed to look consistently comfortable at the moment

Luke Ayling

Korey Smith

Frank Fielding

Marlon Pack

Derrick Williams

I think that the biggest disappointments for me so far are:

Luke Freeman. - Has yet to come to terms with being closed down quicker in this league. Also he looks less agile this year?

Joe Bryan - Seems to be less confident this year... is he carrying some sort of minor injury?

Aiden Flint - As above but appears to play better with Nathan Baker in the team

 

Williams was dropped after a self admitted very disappointing start to the season.

He's looked a bit better since returning in a different role, but overall certainly can't be said to have made the step up to looking consistently comfortable at this level.

Those from last season who've looked at home in the majority of Championship games they've appeared in:

Fielding, Ayling, Flint, Smith, Pack, and - in the little we've seen of him - things look fairly promising for Agard.

Bryan, Freeman and Wilbraham have all had good games but settling at this level disrupted by suspensions or carrying injuries.

I've got no doubts whatsoever about Freeman and Bryan showing their worth consistently before the season's out, and Wilbraham will recuperate and play an important role from the bench.