Pack bashers- what's up with them.

[1960maaan]

WE probably all have or had players we don't take to for whatever reason. The same as we have fav's who will get more leeway than others.

I like Pack , but would love to replace him with better quality along with 5 or 6 others in the team.  I think Smith is a little wasted in a holding role so we have little option. Although Ayling may be able to do that role. What I don't get is why Reid hasn't had more minutes on the pitch. Made a difference against Leeds, all be it agaiinst a side wanting to hold what they had so had no real attacking intent. When a game is won/lost he's the sort of player that should be getting experience. 

One last thing about Pack's supposed 5 yard pass myopia , the thing that impressed me most about Wade when I saw him first (mentioned this before) , is that he got the ball and moved it easily (possibly only 5 yards) to another City player. Keeping possession and making space . Funny how a plus for one guy is another's minus. 

[Super]

Not good enough at this level. 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Pulis but that wasn`t just a few!

Maybe sometimes it's justified !

[Super]

40 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Amazes me how many people believe Reid could slot in for pack. Our midfield height would be tiny and we wouldn't win many balls in the air in midfield which Pack does a lot. Reid is simply not a defensive midfielder, people forget Reid was pretty poor when he sat deeper vs MK and contributed to our poor performance in that second half. Reid can only play in the Freeman role right now, and I think he's got a good case to be genuine competition.

If we are to strengthen the defensive section of our midfield, Reid isn't the answer.

No Reid needs to come in for Freeman. We need to get someone in to replace Pack

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

No Reid needs to come in for Freeman. We need to get someone in to replace Pack

I think Bobby has a very strong case for dislodging Freeman. Wonder how we will rejig with Pack out?

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think Bobby has a very strong case for dislodging Freeman. Wonder how we will rejig with Pack out?

Could be a time to try Ayling there, options are limited. 

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Could be a time to try Ayling there, options are limited. 

True. I believe he played midfield for Yeovil in his time there. We don't have many options at all, move Freeman deeper and push Reid up? Can't see it. Bring Bryan back in midfield like Ipswich? Possibly. I reckon we might see Ayling or Wagstaff there.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Putting Ayling there could work but will leave us very light on the right of the back 3. Flinty can`t play there and Del, NB and Moore (?) are lefties.

Any news on NB by the way? Didn`t he go off at HT yesterday?

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Putting Ayling there could work but will leave us very light on the right of the back 3. Flinty can`t play there and Del, NB and Moore (?) are lefties.

Any news on NB by the way? Didn`t he go off at HT yesterday?

Good point about the left/right balance. Unless we change formation I doubt Ayling will be put there.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Am I right in thinking we can sign free agents outside of the window? There must be someone out there who could do a job and has kept fit surely.

 

Ok it`s clutching at straws but worth a phone call or two or not?

[Aaron-Bcfc]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Amazes me how many people believe Reid could slot in for pack. Our midfield height would be tiny and we wouldn't win many balls in the air in midfield which Pack does a lot. Reid is simply not a defensive midfielder, people forget Reid was pretty poor when he sat deeper vs MK and contributed to our poor performance in that second half. Reid can only play in the Freeman role right now, and I think he's got a good case to be genuine competition.

If we are to strengthen the defensive section of our midfield, Reid isn't the answer.

Whilst I admit the height issue would be a big problem, there was never any problems with Smith and Elliott as a midfield two was there?

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Am I right in thinking we can sign free agents outside of the window? There must be someone out there who could do a job and has kept fit surely.

 

Ok it`s clutching at straws but worth a phone call or two or not?

I thought the loan window and free agent window closed on the same day but that is probably wrong. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

I think free agents are treated separately as if you prevent them signing for a club you`re basically forcing them to remain unemployed and that would be seen as some sort of restraint of trade I would think.

[Carey 6]

6 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Whilst I admit the height issue would be a big problem, there was never any problems with Smith and Elliott as a midfield two was there?

Good point, I've said this quite a few times this season to others. 

Despite the whole team playing poorly yesterday, Ayling and Pack stood out as the worst of a bad bunch for me, not sure you should be allowed to play so badly and not worry about losing your place next game. Too many of these players (because of the small squad) are too comfortable in their position with no real competition for places. 

Give Reid a chance.

[cider-manc]

The thing that drives me mad is people slate him for passing sideways when he hasn't got an option to go forward.

There was a period yesterday in the first half where people around me were chastising pack for passing sideways but he had no option going forward.  Both Freeman and Smith were to his left and ayling was to his right. In front of him were the entire Rotherham midfield before a line of defenders marking our two forwards. What's he supposed to do? If he hadn't gone sideways and lost the ball then there was every possibility that Rotherham would have been in at our defence. 

 

Everyone was poor yesterday. Not just pack. And everyone was passing sideways- not just pack. For instance every time we got to the byline in the second half we all knew what was going to happen....  We were going to turn back on ourselves play the ball back to ayling... Sideways to Freeman... Sideways to pack.... Sideways back to Freeman...  Back to ayling... Back to Bennett who would get to the byline.... Before passing backwards to ayling... And repeat.

Packs role in the team is to keep us ticking and tidy up in front the defence. Yes he had a poor game but so did everyone else. Very bad day atvthe office.

[Kingswood Robin]

For me it's the misplaced passes and getting caught in possession in dangerous areas that let Pack and others down. There's no hiding it at this level. If we can stay up, the side will gradually improve with better players coming in and the not so good leaving. Marlon will be one of them.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, redfieldred said:

It's like they couldn't wait for him to play bad to justify their wanting him out, let's be honest since Fulham they haven't had any real evidence that he is anything other than a decent holding midfielder. 

I think that there were concerns even last season in the same way as there is/was with Agard.

My opinion from the little that i've seen like many on here there are far too many sideways and back passes, we need a midfielder who can unlock defences when we are in and around the opponents 18 yard box, we do not possess that player IMO, at this moment in time Reid might be a better option but to be honest Reid could also replace Freeman who has surprisingly struggled at this higher level, but he is still young so hopefully will improve.

in short we lack creativity in the final third.

[Phileas Fogg]

16 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Whilst I admit the height issue would be a big problem, there was never any problems with Smith and Elliott as a midfield two was there?

True, good point. We must have had one of the smallest midfield 3's in the league!

[Carey 6]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

True, good point. We must have had one of the smallest midfield 3's in the league!

Korey Smith is 6'0 which is surprising. Always thought he was shorter than that.

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, Gilts said:

Korey Smith is 6'0 which is surprising. Always thought he was shorter than that.

Probably measured by the same tape measure that has Fielding at over 6ft!

[Rob k]

Always makes me laugh these threads about pack - Korey Smith was in the same midfield but you never hear a peep about his performance!!

 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, redfieldred said:

Hang on Freemans been losing the ball far more than pack. Smith too was caught in possession all the time in the last two home games. smith appears to be above any criticism like freeman until his poor play became too obvious to ignore, but to project all the faults of a midfield onto one player is one eyed in the extreme. City fans always seem to do it though, skuse springs to mind. Not good enough for a failing city side but good enough for a successful Ipswich. 

Freeman loses the ball in a crowd of players between the defence and midfield of the opposition. Any player would lose it in that area when isolated like he often is. All this comparing Pack with Skuse is a strange one. Skuse was and is a quality championship player, wrongly criticised by some City fans. Pack is a league 1  player who is rightly criticised for not being good enough. If Pack went to a better team he would still pass it backwards and sideways, still be very slow, poor on the ball etc etc...

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

We're you spending your hard earned cash at Rotherham yesterday or making blind comments watch the third goal again on catch up t.v

I've watched City at 81 away grounds - don't need to answer to you 'superfan'

[JoeAman08]

Let's be real, if Pack had scored one or two free kicks along with 1 or 2 30 yarders, people would be saying he's one of our best midfielders maybe even best. He's good and plays his role well. We don't have a replacement for him and will struggle next week without him. 

Hes not a top midfielder in the league but he is the best we have for that role. His aerial ability is important for us defensively and I know no one wants to hear that but he's the only one that can play that spot unless we play DW or LA out of position. Maybe see Joe in there again as he can leap and compete for headers as well. 

All in all its down to lack of a squad. There is no other option and I'm much happier with him there than Bobby Reid. Now should Bobby play? Yes but for Freeman only. Freeman I think needs to be dropped ASAP. Love his work rate but his quality has been lacking. He needs a break. Give me Cox or Reid in that role for a bit. 

[redfieldred]

He might put Ayling in for pack and Williams back to back 3. Then  I think Reid should come in and try freeman as wing back

[redfieldred]

4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let's be real, if Pack had scored one or two free kicks along with 1 or 2 30 yarders, people would be saying he's one of our best midfielders maybe even best. He's good and plays his role well. We don't have a replacement for him and will struggle next week without him. 

Hes not a top midfielder in the league but he is the best we have for that role. His aerial ability is important for us defensively and I know no one wants to hear that but he's the only one that can play that spot unless we play DW or LA out of position. Maybe see Joe in there again as he can leap and compete for headers as well. 

All in all its down to lack of a squad. There is no other option and I'm much happier with him there than Bobby Reid. Now should Bobby play? Yes but for Freeman only. Freeman I think needs to be dropped ASAP. Love his work rate but his quality has been lacking. He needs a break. Give me Cox or Reid in that role for a bit. 

Spot on

[Frenchay Red]

My guess would be Ayling for Pack, Moore for Ayling. 

With regards to Reid, although he has good vision and technical ability I don't think he has the physical presence or stamina to make his mark at this standard. It would be great if it was otherwise, but when you consider how those players, who were ahead of Reid last year, are finding it difficult to replicate last year's form, it is optimistic to think he can step up from L2 Plymouth to regularly put in the level of performance required for this season in the Championship.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, cider-manc said:

The thing that drives me mad is people slate him for passing sideways when he hasn't got an option to go forward.

There was a period yesterday in the first half where people around me were chastising pack for passing sideways but he had no option going forward.  Both Freeman and Smith were to his left and ayling was to his right. In front of him were the entire Rotherham midfield before a line of defenders marking our two forwards. What's he supposed to do? If he hadn't gone sideways and lost the ball then there was every possibility that Rotherham would have been in at our defence. 

 

Everyone was poor yesterday. Not just pack. And everyone was passing sideways- not just pack. For instance every time we got to the byline in the second half we all knew what was going to happen....  We were going to turn back on ourselves play the ball back to ayling... Sideways to Freeman... Sideways to pack.... Sideways back to Freeman...  Back to ayling... Back to Bennett who would get to the byline.... Before passing backwards to ayling... And repeat.

Packs role in the team is to keep us ticking and tidy up in front the defence. Yes he had a poor game but so did everyone else. Very bad day atvthe office.

It sounds like the Simpsons when they were watching a world cup match ;

" holds it , holds it ... Holds it ... '

[CheddarReds]

I think Pack had a slow ish start to the season but has improved more. I didn't see the game yesterday so can't comment but the games I've seen before yesterdayI think he's been better.

He wins a lot of headers other wouldn't, although he may move it side to side he is told to do so and can still play forward. We don't have another player who can really play like Pack does, and I think Cotterill wants someone to do that, so until we bring someone else in we will see him start.

I wonder if the weak link in midfield at the moment is Freeman. I don't think he's got used to the championship well. He's more of a dribbler than a passer and I think it's worth giving Reid a try instead. He did fine when Freeman was suspended and it might be motivation for Freeman to win his place back.

[mcbcfc]

Pack is often better without the ball than with it! I think he has a knack of being in space where others don't. The problem is he doesn't take responsibility, too often he passes the ball back to one of the defenders who inevitably lump it forward. It does annoy me that we're more likely to see Ayling try & beat a man & get forward than Pack.

He (along with 90% of the rest of the team) has an average/poor first touch as a result he takes 2/3 touches too many which at this level results in being closed down & normally losing the ball. 

The team needs 3-4 good signings in the Jan transfer window!