Pack bashers- what's up with them.

[pongo88]

3 hours ago, Gilts said:

Korey Smith is 6'0 which is surprising. Always thought he was shorter than that.

He may be 6', in which case I'm 8' tall. There are many "facts" which aren't factually correct - e g the Great Wall of China can be seen from space. It can't. 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, mcbcfc said:

It does annoy me that we're more likely to see Ayling try & beat a man & get forward than Pack.

 

Why? Ayling is much better than Pack at driving forward with the ball. So long as Ayling is covered I say get your players playing to their strengths. 

Pack has to be less advanced and less attacking. We cannot afford holes in CM with our formation. We should, however be able to plug a CB between the two others and the wingbacks. The way I see it Pack is a pawn and every team at the top two level needs one. 

[Dynamite Red]

I have no issue with Pack and he has my support every time he pulls on the shirt but at this level he is at best average at most things. Often does 7/10 thing right but makes some pretty poor choices sometimes at crucial parts of play. Would I look to replace him with a more physical highrr energy holding midfielder, yes I would and let him develop as a squad player.

[PFree]

I'm not a Pack basher and appreciate he played really well last season. This season though, with the exception of some vital defending in the box on odd occasions, for me, he has been poor.

I'm not sure if pass stats are available but he gives the ball away far too often, he never looks like he has time on the ball ( the sign of a good player) and he's looked like it's a level too far.

I like him but as is the case with a few others, I feel he's a good league one player and nothing more...

[mcbcfc]

22 minutes ago, 29AR said:

Why? Ayling is much better than Pack at driving forward with the ball. So long as Ayling is covered I say get your players playing to their strengths. 

Pack has to be less advanced and less attacking. We cannot afford holes in CM with our formation. We should, however be able to plug a CB between the two others and the wingbacks. The way I see it Pack is a pawn and every team at the top two level needs one. 

If Ayling goes forward Pack or Smith drops back into the gap therefore we are a midfielder short, the wing backs rarely get back to cover that position!

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, mcbcfc said:

If Ayling goes forward Pack or Smith drops back into the gap therefore we are a midfielder short, the wing backs rarely get back to cover that position!

I agree, and that's where I think we are going wrong in part. In those instances I see it that we should quickly adjust to 4-5-1/4-4-1-1. 

It is, after all, without the ball we are falling short: not with it, hence coming away from numerous games feeling we've been hard done by. Maybe we haven't been, maybe we are just so bad without the ball in our organisation that we are easy to play against. 

[cider-manc]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

It sounds like the Simpsons when they were watching a world cup match ;

" holds it , holds it ... Holds it ... '

To be honest that would have been more entertaining than what we were subjected to at times yesterday. 

[Offside]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

He's before my time but certainly seems to be a recurring theme. Is it the same at other clubs? Albeit much much higher quality, Michael Carrick isn't the most exciting player to watch but he's rightly appreciated at Spurs and United.

I imagine most other clubs have players who become scapegoats. Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but in yesterday's "i" newspaper there was a comment from an Ipswich fan slating Skuse (who I always thought was a good player for us).

As for Marlon, I don't think he has been any worse than many of our other players this season. Positives are that his height is useful, he always wants the ball and is good at tidying up play (a bit like Lee Johnson was). However, he is also frustrating at times with the cross-field passes that opposition defenders read so easily and the seeming lack of incisive passes to create chances (although our other midfielders have been at fault in this regard too). He also seems to have a lack of mobility at times when defending.

He has not been particularly effective this season but that goes for many of our players. Midfield is certainly one area that needs bolstering in Jan.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Offside said:

However, he is also frustrating at times with the cross-field passes

He sure is, and they stand out like a sore thumb, but per some he only passes sideways or backwards for up to 5 yards 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

6 hours ago, Gilts said:

Good point, I've said this quite a few times this season to others. 

Despite the whole team playing poorly yesterday, Ayling and Pack stood out as the worst of a bad bunch for me, not sure you should be allowed to play so badly and not worry about losing your place next game. Too many of these players (because of the small squad) are too comfortable in their position with no real competition for places. 

Give Reid a chance.

 

I agree, he has to come in to the side and although I'd quite like him to replace Pack while suspended, I'd drop Freeman for him after. Such a disappointment this season. Bobby has done more than him in the odd start and sub appearance.

[The Batman]

Friend of mine is a Cheltenham fan. He was delighted when he found out he left and laughed so hard when he found out he signed for us. I said I'd give him a chance, he may have just taken a dislike to him, but in the years he has played for us, I have not seen anything to suggest he was wrong on the field. 

Off field, by all accounts he's a total kn0b head. Found out not too long ago that the Wife's sister knows him as she's school friends with one of his former teammates. Very few people say anything nice about him. Maybe if he stopped the champagne parties in marbella claiming he can "buy everyone" and focused on his football, he may improve.

[GrahamC]

18 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Friend of mine is a Cheltenham fan. He was delighted when he found out he left and laughed so hard when he found out he signed for us. I said I'd give him a chance, he may have just taken a dislike to him, but in the years he has played for us, I have not seen anything to suggest he was wrong on the field. 

Off field, by all accounts he's a total kn0b head. Found out not too long ago that the Wife's sister knows him as she's school friends with one of his former teammates. Very few people say anything nice about him. Maybe if he stopped the champagne parties in marbella claiming he can "buy everyone" and focused on his football, he may improve.

Unlike you unless he falls foul of the criminal justice system I couldn't give a shit what he's like off the field, he's a footballer not my mate.

As for the Cheltenham fan, well they've gone from strength to strength without him, eh?

Good squad player, but not his fault we didn't replace Wade, is it?

[The Batman]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Unlike you unless he falls foul of the criminal justice system I couldn't give a shit what he's like off the field, he's a footballer not my mate.

As for the Cheltenham fan, well they've gone from strength to strength without him, eh?

Good squad player, but not his fault we didn't replace Wade, is it?

Yes because Cheltenham were competing with Barcelona and Bayern Munich when pack was playing for them.

Can't disagree with your last statement though, that lies square with the board. He can only put in the performances to show he doesn't need replacing, which unfortunately, he simply does not do. 

[Rob k]

30 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Friend of mine is a Cheltenham fan. He was delighted when he found out he left and laughed so hard when he found out he signed for us. I said I'd give him a chance, he may have just taken a dislike to him, but in the years he has played for us, I have not seen anything to suggest he was wrong on the field. 

Off field, by all accounts he's a total kn0b head. Found out not too long ago that the Wife's sister knows him as she's school friends with one of his former teammates. Very few people say anything nice about him. Maybe if he stopped the champagne parties in marbella claiming he can "buy everyone" and focused on his football, he may improve.

From what I've seen he appears to be a good lad, in fact this is the first time I've ever heard he's anything other than a sound bloke

[awbb]

I don't know if it's worth getting into specifics, but there was a moment in the first half yesterday, where Pack was moving left, about 10 yards in front of the back 3. He had an opponent 5 or so yards from him. Baker was 15 yards away, with a man 5 or so yards from him. Baker, at that point, had absolutely no out ball at all, other than a hoof down field, since Williams was no where to be seen, probably having a rest somewhere, or just standing around after losing out on a header.

Pack, inevitably, passed to him and by the time the ball was with Baker he had less than a second to do something before he was really under pressure. He hoofed it whilst off balance and we lost the ball on the half way line.

Now, I don't know what Pack is being told to do. If Cotterill is telling him to put unnecessary pressure on his centre-backs with pointless "sideways" passes, then he's doing a great job. I doubt that is the case though.

To me,that was the most glaring example of a lack of awareness and buck passing. If he's the creative pivot, then he's got to take responsibility and make sure his "less talented" team mate has an option before giving him the ball.

His yellow appeared needless to me, and one of his major jobs is to challenge in the air from opposition goal kicks. Notwithstanding the Hull goal last week, he was powderpuff at that yesterday. 

 

[bcfctim]

7 hours ago, Rob k said:

Always makes me laugh these threads about pack - Korey Smith was in the same midfield but you never hear a peep about his performance!!

 

Korey was awful yesterday. Far and away the worst I've seen him in a City shirt. Didn't win a 50-50 all game, in fact we were outmuscled all over the pitch.

Pack was very poor but far from the only one. Yet it seems he has become the latest boo boy and there were large sections of the crowd blaming him for absolutely everything. Heard someone scream at him after the penalty ffs.

[redfieldred]

The old bloke in front of me, when any player makes a mistake in our half he claims it was pack every time. Williams freeman Bennett Flint, doesn't matter what size or colour they are if there's a mistake it has to be Pack. Very strange and I have stopped arguing with him because he is obviously completely deluded. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, redfieldred said:

The old bloke in front of me, when any player makes a mistake in our half he claims it was pack every time. Williams freeman Bennett Flint, doesn't matter what size or colour they are if there's a mistake it has to be Pack. Very strange and I have stopped arguing with him because he is obviously completely deluded. 

Be interesting to see if he does the same thing next week when he`s suspended - do let us know. Mind you he`ll probably think he`s been dropped because of all his mistakes.

[redfieldred]

13 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Be interesting to see if he does the same thing next week when he`s suspended - do let us know. Mind you he`ll probably think he`s been dropped because of all his mistakes.

He'll probably be annoyed cos he'll have to work out who is really   making mistakes and won't have Marlon to shout at.  

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, bcfctim said:

Korey was awful yesterday. Far and away the worst I've seen him in a City shirt. Didn't win a 50-50 all game, in fact we were outmuscled all over the pitch.

Pack was very poor but far from the only one. Yet it seems he has become the latest boo boy and there were large sections of the crowd blaming him for absolutely everything. Heard someone scream at him after the penalty ffs.

That's very interesting.

Wonder how "fit" he really was?

Symptom of a small squad..

[bcfctim]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That's very interesting.

Wonder how "fit" he really was?

Symptom of a small squad..

Hadn't thought of it that way but it's a valid point. We looked off the pace and were second to every ball, particularly second half. And we did have to do a lot of chasing against Hull last week.

[Randy Marsh]

He's either passing sideways or backwards putting needless pressure on those he's passing too or he's launching Hollywood passes at the builders. He also seems to struggle winning aerial balls such as defending goal kicks far too often (see Hull) which should be one of his key roles. 

Some members of the team look like winners and that they are doing everything to win putting themselves on the line, I don't get that from Pack and never have. 

Looking forward to seeing him replaced in January. Will probably be alright to hang on to him if we go down though so wouldn't offload him yet but if we are to progress at this level he can't be a key part of it. 

[WhistleHappy]

Everyone in a red shirt deserves all the backing we can muster right now and for as long as they remain on the BCFC books that backing should continue, through good times and the not so good.

 Its easy when the going is good -its tougher when things are rough -but its during the rough times when support is most needed -its true in life and its just as true within the relationship of football club and supporter.

Until a player shows signs of not being bothered, gives up, stops trying, regardless of ability while giving his best to the shirt, until the manager decides 'enoughs enough, not good enough, lacks bottle/effort then we must (even if we cant actively support) not knock that player or group of players... 

Anyway as far as Pack is concerned its official BCFC we must back him - see request below :

http://shop.bristol-sport.co.uk/football/bcfc-15-16-backpack-red

So there you go! You've got it in writing, you've got it in Red & White ..

..BACK PACK!

[redfieldred]

30 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

Everyone in a red shirt deserves all the backing we can muster right now and for as long as they remain on the BCFC books that backing should continue, through good times and the not so good.

 Its easy when the going is good -its tougher when things are rough -but its during the rough times when support is most needed -its true in life and its just as true within the relationship of football club and supporter.

Until a player shows signs of not being bothered, gives up, stops trying, regardless of ability while giving his best to the shirt, until the manager decides 'enoughs enough, not good enough, lacks bottle/effort then we must (even if we cant actively support) not knock that player or group of players... 

Anyway as far as Pack is concerned its official BCFC we must back him - see request below :

http://shop.bristol-sport.co.uk/football/bcfc-15-16-backpack-red

So there you go! You've got it in writing, you've got it in Red & White ..

..BACK PACK!

Brilliant! 

[Shtanley]

12 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

Putting Ayling there could work but will leave us very light on the right of the back 3. Flinty can`t play there and Del, NB and Moore (?) are lefties.

Any news on NB by the way? Didn`t he go off at HT yesterday?

Moore is right footed

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Pack is, without doubt, the best ball player in the side. But due to having to cover other roles is not always able to show this. If you want a more more forward thinking player you have Reid. 

So Reid or Pack ?

Or Reid or Freeman ?

Tough choice I would say.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Pack is, without doubt, the best ball player in the side. But due to having to cover other roles is not always able to show this. If you want a more more forward thinking player you have Reid. 

So Reid or Pack ?

Or Reid or Freeman ?

Tough choice I would say.

A ball player is someone that is good at controlling and dribbling isn't it? Pack is not very good at either of these. Or do you mean good passer? He ain't that either in my opinion.

[redfieldred]

52 minutes ago, Jonbristol said:

A ball player is someone that is good at controlling and dribbling isn't it? Pack is not very good at either of these. Or do you mean good passer? He ain't that either in my opinion.

No. People who watch rather than play the game believe this. Dribbling is a hit  or miss skill. Even great players like gazza lost possession quite frequently because defenders are able to get a foot in. These players look greater because highlights never show the many times they lose possession. This is why they are attacking midfielders. The risk is of possession loss is considered worth it for the possibility of goals.  Pack is a defensive midfielder And looks  more composed on the ball than most of our defence minded players, he rarely gets caught in possession, although he sometimes makes poor passing decision, smith gets caught in possession far more than pack. But apparently that's alright. Cos he's a terroir like defensive mid who against lesser opposition is able to take a touch and switch play. Against better teams he gets caught in possession trying to do this and can't seem to adjust his game to play the ball quicker.  Personally I think most of the time Pack and Smith the play well as a pair. 

[redfieldred]

I'll finish on this because it's quite obvious that some will never see packs contribution to keeping out goals against, which to me was obvious against Cardiff. Forrest, wolves, hull first half, Bolton, Brighton, and he was our best midfielder in a poor display against reading. So 2 poor performances. Fulham and Rotherham. In both those games the entire team with a couple of exceptions were poor. So why pick on him. When he plays well like against Cardiff no one compliments him, when he plays poorly he gets completely slagged. That's not fair and balanced. I believe this down to a lack of football knowledge. What makes a a good team performance. Finally because Smith is for some reason considered above criticism, despite losing possession through overplaying in many many occasions, any poor Smith performance is completely ignored. So smith can have a mare and there is no talk of him not being good enough at this level. Unfair very very biased and one eyed, good night,

[Guest]

2 hours ago, redfieldred said:

No. People who watch rather than play the game believe this. Dribbling is a hit  or miss skill. Even great players like gazza lost possession quite frequently because defenders are able to get a foot in. These players look greater because highlights never show the many times they lose possession. This is why they are attacking midfielders. The risk is of possession loss is considered worth it for the possibility of goals.  Pack is a defensive midfielder And looks  more composed on the ball than most of our defence minded players, he rarely gets caught in possession, although he sometimes makes poor passing decision, smith gets caught in possession far more than pack. But apparently that's alright. Cos he's a terroir like defensive mid who against lesser opposition is able to take a touch and switch play. Against better teams he gets caught in possession trying to do this and can't seem to adjust his game to play the ball quicker.  Personally I think most of the time Pack and Smith the play well as a pair. 

So what is a ball player?