Ohbasso Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Interesting article about agents fees - http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-spend-more-any-10527244 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 The only question about agents is whether we need a UN resolution first, or if we just go ahead and bomb them. Uncle TFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Agents are bad for the game. Seen as we (basically) only signed one player it seems £230k is quite a bit but I assume loans and re signings also use agents? Can anyone be an agent? If I could convince a player that (for any reason) it was a good idea to say I was an agent would a club signing that player have to give me a massive wedge of cash? seems like its ripe to be used or abused as a tax dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think you have to be registered or accredited or some such these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITYAREREDANDWHITE Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Pezo said: Agents are bad for the game. Seen as we (basically) only signed one player it seems £230k is quite a bit but I assume loans and re signings also use agents? Can anyone be an agent? If I could convince a player that (for any reason) it was a good idea to say I was an agent would a club signing that player have to give me a massive wedge of cash? seems like its ripe to be used or abused as a tax dodge. Wasn't it from last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 A significant factor in the Gray deal collapsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 19 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said: A significant factor in the Gray deal collapsing. Ooh, tell us more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Agents are used in many forms of business I don't understand the anger towards them. When fans started to demand better and more expensive players that's when they came in. Anyone with a niche skill set that commands good money would be an idiot not to have some form of representation. We could choose not to pay these fees, but then we'd shopping in basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 8 hours ago, CITYAREREDANDWHITE said: Wasn't it from last season? I did wonder but it's us in the championship so I thought it might be the summer. I guess there are a number of different ways it could break down such as financial year, calendar year, summer transfer window open or close ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFree Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I knew there was a positive to us having a really poor transfer policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITYAREREDANDWHITE Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 51 minutes ago, Pezo said: I did wonder but it's us in the championship so I thought it might be the summer. I guess there are a number of different ways it could break down such as financial year, calendar year, summer transfer window open or close ect. It's defiantly from last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 8 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Agents are used in many forms of business I don't understand the anger towards them. When fans started to demand better and more expensive players that's when they came in. Anyone with a niche skill set that commands good money would be an idiot not to have some form of representation. We could choose not to pay these fees, but then we'd shopping in basement. That's the rub isn't it? The more you shell out to these para...err agents, the more the players fee is inflated, what you have here is a another example of greed greed greed in football, it start at the top with FIFA and all the way down to the fans, it's the fans that pay for this in the long run, with the huge hike in costs in going to what was a working man's game that was enjoyed by thousands after a weeks work, it's now fast becoming a wealthy mans sport, and we wonder why there is a lack of atmosphere in stadiums? Stop press!! Chinese consortium now own a chunk of Man Citeh, ,Chinese know how to rip off folk don't they? And the reason England will never win a major trophy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETBURY MASSIVE Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Whats @spudski take on this topic?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 11 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: When fans started to demand better and more expensive players that's when they came in. Well we demanded the first, not the second! The more expensive players came as a result of Sky money sloshing about, billionaire club owners not seeking a financial return, and the rise of agents. If all clubs passed a resolution only to negotiate with the players themselves face-to-face we'd be able to get rid of them from the game, .but let's face it, that's never going to happen so we just have to live with their fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 12 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Agents are used in many forms of business I don't understand the anger towards them. When fans started to demand better and more expensive players that's when they came in. Anyone with a niche skill set that commands good money would be an idiot not to have some form of representation. We could choose not to pay these fees, but then we'd shopping in basement. I agree wholeheartedly. The role of an agent should be positive, both for players and clubs... and lets not forget agent's can represent clubs and it is even permissible for them to act for both parties in a transfer akin to a middleman. Sure there are unscrupulous individuals out there but I don't think a lot of people appreciate what the role entails. Contract negotiations and transfers really are the thin edge of the wedge. Dealing with prima donna's who don't know their arse from their elbow is another. Take Jack Grealish, his agent you'd think would be over him like a fly on crap at the moment trying to get him to see the errors of his ways, smooth things over with the club, arranging for good PR opportunities etc. And in terms of their fees sure they are massive but don't forget the risk agents carry. If you're negotiating multi million pound deals you are potentially carrying multi million pounds of risk in respect of professional indemnity. I know there's no way I'd personally ever consider carrying that sort of risk for a fee in the region of thousands of pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 3 hours ago, CITYAREREDANDWHITE said: It's defiantly from last season. It's from 1 October 2014 to 30 September 2015 so includes our summer shopping as a Championship club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 53 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Well we demanded the first, not the second! The more expensive players came as a result of Sky money sloshing about, billionaire club owners not seeking a financial return, and the rise of agents. If all clubs passed a resolution only to negotiate with the players themselves face-to-face we'd be able to get rid of them from the game, .but let's face it, that's never going to happen so we just have to live with their fees. Absolutely RR, sadly most players view agents like another fashion accessory like the ballet shoes that they wear masquerading as football or the bad haircuts. The worst knock on is clubs no longer need to poach players a la Ashley Cole, the agents do that. Agents and brain dead footballers are best summed up by the story about Robinho who signed for manc on deadline day and had to ask his agent "who have I signed for?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 11 minutes ago, 29AR said: I agree wholeheartedly. The role of an agent should be positive, both for players and clubs... and lets not forget agent's can represent clubs and it is even permissible for them to act for both parties in a transfer akin to a middleman. Sure there are unscrupulous individuals out there but I don't think a lot of people appreciate what the role entails. Contract negotiations and transfers really are the thin edge of the wedge. Dealing with prima donna's who don't know their arse from their elbow is another. Take Jack Grealish, his agent you'd think would be over him like a fly on crap at the moment trying to get him to see the errors of his ways, smooth things over with the club, arranging for good PR opportunities etc. And in terms of their fees sure they are massive but don't forget the risk agents carry. If you're negotiating multi million pound deals you are potentially carrying multi million pounds of risk in respect of professional indemnity. I know there's no way I'd personally ever consider carrying that sort of risk for a fee in the region of thousands of pounds. Excellent post. Actors, singers, movie stars all have agents. Highly skilled professionals and consultants will have an agent. Basically if both parties (employers and service providers) could arrange an employment contract without the need for an agent they would, but they can't, so they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Ps. An agent fee would require a transfer, and as we've few of those this season it's the least of our problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 1 minute ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Excellent post. Actors, singers, movie stars all have agents. Highly skilled professionals and consultants will have an agent. Basically if both parties (employers and service providers) could arrange an employment contract without the need for an agent they would, but they can't, so they do. Well they did in the past, Wolfie. Most "highly skilled niche professionals" actually negotiate their own contracts. The comparison with actors doesn't really hold, as theatrical agents act largely like employment exchanges for a largely unemployed clientele. However, I do agree with you on your main point: the genie is out of the bottle now, and clubs just have to accept agents and find the best way of working with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 TBF there are clubs who would royally stitch up some players if they didn`t have someone acting for them. Most of them aren`t, as we are only too aware, the sharpest tools in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 52 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: Well they did in the past, Wolfie. Most "highly skilled niche professionals" actually negotiate their own contracts. The comparison with actors doesn't really hold, as theatrical agents act largely like employment exchanges for a largely unemployed clientele. However, I do agree with you on your main point: the genie is out of the bottle now, and clubs just have to accept agents and find the best way of working with them. My personal experiences are the opposite. I find the highly skilled professionals are more likely to use a recruitment consultant to negotiate salary/benefits etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonboy Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 4 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said: Whats @spudski take on this topic?? Must be on holiday. Couldn't believe he didn't fill his boots after last Saturday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 6 minutes ago, 29AR said: My personal experiences are the opposite. I find the highly skilled professionals are more likely to use a recruitment consultant to negotiate salary/benefits etc. Not in the two industries I operate in, but that's neither here nor there. Nicky Hunt had an agent too ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Well they did in the past, Wolfie. Most "highly skilled niche professionals" actually negotiate their own contracts. The comparison with actors doesn't really hold, as theatrical agents act largely like employment exchanges for a largely unemployed clientele. However, I do agree with you on your main point: the genie is out of the bottle now, and clubs just have to accept agents and find the best way of working with them. I know they did in the past but the value of these contracts has changed significantly. Nobby the dustman playing on the 50s didn't have image rights, buyout clauses, goal/win bonuses, merchandise sales, promotion/relegation clauses to negotiate. I have a degree but I'd find it hard to negotiate a million pound contract, a lot of footballers think a GCSE is something you catch after a four way with some tart so doubt they would be able to get the deal that's in their best interest. As you say, it's part and parcel these days and clubs need to be more business savvy by building better agreements with agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 14 hours ago, TETBURY MASSIVE said: Whats @spudski take on this topic?? I think there have been some good explanations on here mate, as to why Agents are used in all walks of life. Probably the most hated figures in sport, but used in Recruiting, selling houses and all forms of Industry. What people fail to realise, for every dodgy agent, there is a dodgy manager doing deals with them. Managers like to use certain 'contacts' and often stick with them. Not always a good thing. Football imho, even though big business, has it's fair share of 'Second hand car deals' for want of a better explanation. 9 hours ago, Ashtonboy said: Must be on holiday. Couldn't believe he didn't fill his boots after last Saturday! Didn't think we'd beat Rotherham mate, so it came as no surprise. Those type of results are to be expected with the quality and size of squad imho...just as pulling out a few good wins here and there...it's going to be one o those types of seasons I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 2 hours ago, spudski said: ... Football imho, even though big business, has it's fair share of 'Second hand car deals' ... ....which as we know leads to the inevitable signing of an occassional useless hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 23 hours ago, Ashtonboy said: Must be on holiday. Couldn't believe he didn't fill his boots after last Saturday! Perhaps he's just fed up with the constant bitching because he does n't share your opinions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 2, 2015 Report Share Posted December 2, 2015 23 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Not in the two industries I operate in, but that's neither here nor there. Nicky Hunt had an agent too ;-) Nicky Hunt's agent is up there with Dean Saunder's agent as the masters of smoke and mirrors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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