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Baker sending off


Robbored

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Today's ref has taken some stick after today's performance but tbf Baker was fortunate to still be on the pitch after a second rash challenge which deserves a second yellow. The ref just warned him.

The next question is, with Baker on a yellow and throwing himself around why didn't Cotterill substitute him at half time?  Within 4 mins of the second half Baker was walking down the tunnel. 

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I'm 50/50 on whether he should've taken him off. He did seem determined to get sent off though. Have no clue what he was thinking and why we clapped him off as he got booed I'll never understand. His sending off was flat out dumb. 

As for subbing him, I'm ok with him staying on. You've got to trust your players especially arguably our best player. Ask anyone and they'll tell you we are a better team with him on the pitch. Jordan Rhodes was quiet and think Flint could relish the challenge more comfortably with Baker on with him. Also, subbing central defenders can make things go wrong quick. Of all the things we complain about with Cotterhill, I don't think he was wrong with this decision. 

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3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I'm 50/50 on whether he should've taken him off. He did seem determined to get sent off though. Have no clue what he was thinking and why we clapped him off as he got booed I'll never understand. His sending off was flat out dumb. 

As for subbing him, I'm ok with him staying on. You've got to trust your players especially arguably our best player. Ask anyone and they'll tell you we are a better team with him on the pitch. Jordan Rhodes was quiet and think Flint could relish the challenge more comfortably with Baker on with him. Also, subbing central defenders can make things go wrong quick. Of all the things we complain about with Cotterhill, I don't think he was wrong with this decision. 

I think what happened in the second half proves comprehensively that he was very wrong, personally! 

11 v 11 Blackburn weren't even in the game. 

Not that you need to be, to beat us, sadly :( 

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Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

I think what happened in the second half proves comprehensively that he was very wrong, personally! 

11 v 11 Blackburn weren't even in the game. 

I imagine many people will think this way. Like I said, he did look very likely to get another one but since he (luckily) made it to HT still on the pitch, would've thought he would calm down a bit. He didn't and it one of those things we will never know. I probably would've kept him on and if he's smart maybe we keep the clean sheet. Maybe if we sub him they score anyway. Just from the fact he is pretty experienced and our best player I would've kept him on. I would've been wrong but don't think it's a simple decision. 

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2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I imagine many people will think this way. Like I said, he did look very likely to get another one but since he (luckily) made it to HT still on the pitch, would've thought he would calm down a bit. He didn't and it one of those things we will never know. I probably would've kept him on and if he's smart maybe we keep the clean sheet. Maybe if we sub him they score anyway. Just from the fact he is pretty experienced and our best player I would've kept him on. I would've been wrong but don't think it's a simple decision. 

If it were me the decision process would be:

'Are we more likely to concede with 11 men that doesn't include Baker, or 10 men' 

Baker is a fine player but it's not like we were defending for our lives all first half. Blackburn posed no threat whatsoever. 

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Cotterill would undoubtedly spoken to Baker at half time to reinforce the message that he was walking a tightrope with the ref.

Not that he should have needed to, Baker's an experienced player who should have been able to work it out all by himself, and  moderate his actions accordingly.

Cotterill trusted the player not to be a tit, but he flew into the next unnecessary challenge regardless.

Trust misplaced unfortunately and Baker has badly blotted his copybook with both manager and fans.

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54 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Today's ref has taken some stick after today's performance but tbf Baker was fortunate to still be on the pitch after a second rash challenge which deserves a second yellow. The ref just warned him.

The next question is, with Baker on a yellow and throwing himself around why didn't Cotterill substitute him at half time?  Within 4 mins of the second half Baker was walking down the tunnel. 

Exactly right , our manager must have been the only person in the ground who thought Baker should come out for the second half , poor decision , one of many he is continuing to make .

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Two stupid challenges but made it to half time. He was walking a tightrope, but I can only think that after a word with Cott's the manager thought he could trust him. If Baker had said all the right things at half time then Cott's may have accepted him at his word. The final blame has to lie with Baker.

Oh , and yes I probably would have taken him off. If the guy on Radio Bristol is right, we're paying a lot of money for a liability with a dubious fitness record, however good he is.

One point on SC. After the sending off we seemed to drift for a while. Ayling sprinted upfield like we still had 11 men until Flint had a word, and it looked like no one knew what system we were trying to play for a while. Most managers would know what they are going to do in these situations and would act quickly. We ended up Agard trying to fill in midfield, Bennett taking a full back role and the team looking rudderless.

And another thing, so two points I suppose.

How did the ref miss the foul leading to the first goal? As soon as he had ignored that I expected the worst !

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17 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Cotterill would undoubtedly spoken to Baker at half time to reinforce the message that he was walking a tightrope with the ref.

Not that he should have needed to, Baker's an experienced player who should have been able to work it out all by himself, and  moderate his actions accordingly.

Cotterill trusted the player not to be a tit, but he flew into the next unnecessary challenge regardless.

Trust misplaced unfortunately and Baker has badly blotted his copybook with both manager and fans.

Exactly as you say, he's an experienced player and he's to blame, not Cotterill.

As a manager you can't just take off every player that gets booked in the first half!

Baker was a total fool, and the people who clapped him off should take a look at themselves.

I spoke to a Blackburn fan walking back to my car, he felt that it was destined to be a 0-0 until the sending off, he couldn't believe how Baker basically gave them the 3 points.

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24 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I'm 50/50 on whether he should've taken him off. He did seem determined to get sent off though. Have no clue what he was thinking and why we clapped him off as he got booed I'll never understand. His sending off was flat out dumb. 

As for subbing him, I'm ok with him staying on. You've got to trust your players especially arguably our best player. Ask anyone and they'll tell you we are a better team with him on the pitch. Jordan Rhodes was quiet and think Flint could relish the challenge more comfortably with Baker on with him. Also, subbing central defenders can make things go wrong quick. Of all the things we complain about with Cotterhill, I don't think he was wrong with this decision. 

Agree with much of that. Major blame goes to Baker. Nobody would suggest that we should sub anyone with a booking, particularly our best defender. What you do expect is that once someone is booked that they play with a bit of care. Baker just didn't.  Really he should have gone on the first half but the ref was lenient and gave him a final warning. You'd have thought that was enough, but no he gets sent off 4 minutes onto the second half. Complete and utter moron - he should be ashamed of himself. Can't see how SC can be blamed for that - Nathan Baker let SC, the fans and himself down today.

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2 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Agree with much of that. Major blame goes to Baker. Nobody would suggest that we should sub anyone with a booking, particularly our best defender. What you do expect is that once someone is booked that they play with a bit of care. Baker just didn't.  Really he should have gone on the first half but the ref was lenient and gave him a final warning. You'd have thought that was enough, but no he gets sent off 4 minutes onto the second half. Complete and utter moron - he should be ashamed of himself. Can't see how SC can be blamed for that - Nathan Baker let SC, the fans and himself down today.

Yea exactly. It's very easy to say you'd take him off because hindsight is 20/20. All blame should go to Baker. The only defense you can have for him is that first half as evidence it seemed likely he wouldn't go 90. Was completely boneheaded. He's been a rock for us but he cost us a point most likely and we will be short handed again next week. It almost seemed like he wanted to get sent off though. Just can't wrap my head around how silly it was to dive in time and time again. Ref wasn't perfect but wasn't bad and definately got that right. Got the pen right. Maybe missed a pen for us but I would've mad if that same play called against us. 

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3 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Agree with much of that. Major blame goes to Baker. Nobody would suggest that we should sub anyone with a booking, particularly our best defender. What you do expect is that once someone is booked that they play with a bit of care. Baker just didn't.  Really he should have gone on the first half but the ref was lenient and gave him a final warning. You'd have thought that was enough, but no he gets sent off 4 minutes onto the second half. Complete and utter moron - he should be ashamed of himself. Can't see how SC can be blamed for that - Nathan Baker let SC, the fans and himself down today.

Whilst I agree that Baker should have known better the fact that he had already made another reckless challenge after getting booked and had clearly been given a final warning from the ref, should have had Cotts alarm bells ringing. Cotts, for me, is equally to blame for not subbing him. Just look at the contrast with how Blackburn manager quickly subbed Lawrence instead of waiting for what would probably have been a second yellow if he had stayed on.

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2 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Agree with much of that. Major blame goes to Baker. Nobody would suggest that we should sub anyone with a booking, particularly our best defender. What you do expect is that once someone is booked that they play with a bit of care. Baker just didn't.  Really he should have gone on the first half but the ref was lenient and gave him a final warning. You'd have thought that was enough, but no he gets sent off 4 minutes onto the second half. Complete and utter moron - he should be ashamed of himself. Can't see how SC can be blamed for that - Nathan Baker let SC, the fans and himself down today.

Spot on, and just to add, Baker let his team mates down too, and they'll be seething.

Left them in the lurch and basically gifted the 3 points to Blackburn.

Liability I'm afraid, and real doubts cast today as to his suitability as a potential permanent signing.

 

 

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He seemed determined to get sent off today, which is more concerning than Cotterill's decision not to pull him at half time.

My blues supporting mate said he has a reputation at Villa for being injured, but not really being injured, so maybe he was running out of plausible injuries and turned to getting sent off instead to get a bit of time off? 

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1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Should've been taken off at HT. Poor management from Cotts, he was a walking second booking waiting to happen. 

Note how Lambert took Tom Lawrence off instantly after getting booked and squaring up to Korey Smith and was stood talking to him after he was subbed. 

Sorry but he is an experienced professional footballer, he shouldn't need to be told.

That's my opinion on it anyway

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I've consistently supported SC, but no crystal ball was needed to know what would follow in the 2nd half. 

Baker was fouling the opposition at least once every 15 minutes and had received a final warning before half time. The writing was on the wall as they say.

Cotterill's failure to substitute him at half time = Bad management. Lambert's decision to remove Lawrence after a single bizarre minute = good management.

Worse was to come with his awful *****ly attitude to very standard questions asked of him on his decisions with Radio Bristol afterwards. Just cringe-worthy & embarressing.

I hope he might one day swallow his pride and admit just one error of his own, but just don't see it ever happening.

He still has the ear of his players and they play for him to the bitter end regardless and that will do for now, but I hope Mr Lansdown has a few late Christmas gifts for us next January or else...

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Completely Cotts fault. To leave Baker of when everyone knew the next foul would get him sent on was madness!

Its ok saying Baker should have known better but leaving him on was practically saying don't put in a challenge during the second half cus there is every chance one will be missed timed, so even leaving him on would have meant only having two real centre backs.

He has to make tackles that's why he is there so common sense says not to risk him!

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3 hours ago, redfred said:

He seemed determined to get sent off today, which is more concerning than Cotterill's decision not to pull him at half time.

To be fair, not sure any player would relish being pulled off by Cotts at half time.

Bound to impact your performance in the second half.

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