BCFC Jimmer Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 This will probably rustle a few feathers on here - http://news.sky.com/story/1602788/angela-merkel-is-times-person-of-the-year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 well deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 And Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, Donald Trump and the President of Iran as runners up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 This isn't an award though, they are merely listing the people that they judge has had the biggest effect on the years news, for good or ill. It's nothing to do with an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Didn't glorious leader of best Korea win it one year? Now there's a guy who'd get my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 5 hours ago, richwwtk said: This isn't an award though, they are merely listing the people that they judge has had the biggest effect on the years news, for good or ill. It's nothing to do with an agenda. Understood. That said, it is still giving publicity to Baghdadi, and no doubt making him an even bigger hero in the eyes of his sick followers. This shouldn't be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 1 hour ago, The Gasbuster said: Understood. That said, it is still giving publicity to Baghdadi, and no doubt making him an even bigger hero in the eyes of his sick followers. This shouldn't be happening. Bigdaddy was always a hero to me, I won't have a word said against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howey_ducky Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 If the world isn't worried yet, wait until next years winner....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 12 hours ago, howey_ducky said: If the world isn't worried yet, wait until next years winner....... **** me it's not going to be a postal vote and you know the result already, it's not Donald Trump is it?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 15 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Donald Trump, now there's an interesting chap. I love the way he can make a million social justice warriors heads explode simultaneously. I wouldn't trust him to collect shopping trolleys from outside Tesco, let alone letting him have his finger on the nuclear button. He's a tw**. His basic pitch is "I'm the best candidate because I'm the richest". Yes, you inherited it, you dick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I wouldn't trust him to collect shopping trolleys from outside Tesco, let alone letting him have his finger on the nuclear button. He's a tw**. His basic pitch is "I'm the best candidate because I'm the richest". Yes, you inherited it, you dick! I agree RR he is a dangerous individual but what I love is Scottish indignation over this matter, after all of the arse kissing and ignoring of their own people and abandoning their green credentials they did to get his investment for various projects and only stepped in when his demands became more and more outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 24 minutes ago, Big Brother said: I don't know too much about his ideas, I haven't been following him tbh, and maybe he is a dodgy geezer, but I watched a video with 'that' clip in it and I don't see what the problem is with this sentence (which I understand caused the world to go into melt-down): "I Donald J Trump am calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on". I understand his reaction. It was the same reaction that USA President Jimmy Carter had back in 1980 during the Iranian crisis when he stated: "Fourth, the Secretary of Treasury [State] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly." Maybe I'm missing something? Anyway here's a perspective on it from the USA: And another ... I had been thinking exactly the same BB but hadn't got around to posting. The section you highlight is crucial and has been deliberately overlooked. Interesting quote from Carter you've dug up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: I don't know too much about his ideas, I haven't been following him tbh, and maybe he is a dodgy geezer, but I watched a video with 'that' clip in it and I don't see what the problem is with this sentence (which I understand caused the world to go into melt-down): "I Donald J Trump am calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States, until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on". I understand his reaction. It was the same reaction that USA President Jimmy Carter had back in 1980 during the Iranian crisis when he stated: "Fourth, the Secretary of Treasury [State] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly." Maybe I'm missing something? Anyway here's a perspective on it from the USA: And another ... You are missing something. Carter stopped issuing visas to Iranians (and Iranians from Iran only) due to the countries being at a virtual state of war over the Embassy occupation in Tehran. Trump wants to stop all Muslims from all countries - no matter what their backgrounds or views. Turning a population against an identifiable minority is a good definition of Fascism . By the way, that until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" really cracks me up. I wouldn't put any money on Trump ever figuring out what the hell is going on - about anything! He can't even work out that his haircut makes him look like a retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Is not the difference here, which may be subtle, and actually plays in to the ISISs narrative, is to equate a country (Iran) with a religion (Islam)? The country's representatives know exactly what is going on. Some extremists want to kill. A good proportion of these are home grown. if he had said something like 'I demand investment in our intelligence services, much tighter screening of those wanting to enter, especially from xyz countries etc' at would not I suspect been so roundly shot down as he was rightly here. This would have been like us banning every catholic from throughout the world during the troubles in N Ireland. He trades on fear. He needs ISIS, and they need nut jobs like him to be able to say - ' see, it IS the west against Islam'. He used to be mildly entertaining, in the way it is the same watching fruit cakes demanding everyone should be armed as the way to cut gun crime. He has gone beyond that. He is a dangerous man prepared to say anything, even if completely made up, to build the fear he trades off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: You are missing something. Carter stopped issuing visas to Iranians (and Iranians from Iran only) due to the countries being at a virtual state of war over the Embassy occupation in Tehran. Trump wants to stop all Muslims from all countries - no matter what their backgrounds or views. Turning a population against an identifiable minority is a good definition of Fascism . By the way, that until "we can figure out what the hell is going on" really cracks me up. I wouldn't put any money on Trump ever figuring out what the hell is going on - about anything! He can't even work out that his haircut makes him look like a retard. The problem is RR as we know Americans can be incredibly dull they voted G W in twice FFS, but there is a growing perception that Obama is and has been 'backsliding' to retirement playing golf and doing little else, I must admit IMO he cuts a figure who appears to have given up and sadly people like Trump and any other chancer will profit from that perception, when successive governments do not listen to the peoples concerns, they look elsewhere, it's the reason that UKIP are now number 2 to labour or conservatives in many UK constituencies and France is taking a look at the FN and remember you are somebody who wants a change to our voting system, be careful what you wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: The problem is RR as we know Americans can be incredibly dull they voted G W in twice FFS, but there is a growing perception that Obama is and has been 'backsliding' to retirement playing golf and doing little else, I must admit IMO he cuts a figure who appears to have given up and sadly people like Trump and any other chancer will profit from that perception, when successive governments do not listen to the peoples concerns, they look elsewhere, it's the reason that UKIP are now number 2 to labour or conservatives in many UK constituencies and France is taking a look at the FN and remember you are somebody who wants a change to our voting system, be careful what you wish for. You do touch on an interesting point. What Trump, the NF in France, UKIP, the SNP, and yes even the election of Corbyn all seem to share is electorates which are just about fed up to the back teeth of the current ruling elites, and a real disengagement of many from the political process. What we do need to recognise that it tends to be in those situations that real extremist parties can flourish and guard against that, whilst responding somehow to the real sense of frustration out there with so many mainstream politicians. How that happens I have not a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: The problem is RR as we know Americans can be incredibly dull they voted G W in twice FFS, but there is a growing perception that Obama is and has been 'backsliding' to retirement playing golf and doing little else, I must admit IMO he cuts a figure who appears to have given up and sadly people like Trump and any other chancer will profit from that perception, when successive governments do not listen to the peoples concerns, they look elsewhere, it's the reason that UKIP are now number 2 to labour or conservatives in many UK constituencies and France is taking a look at the FN and remember you are somebody who wants a change to our voting system, be careful what you wish for. I don't want FPTP in each state like you get in American presidential elections. I actually think Trump will not be the Republican candidate. Mainstream party members can see he's offended key constituencies they wish to appeal to. Things will boil down to a sane candidate v Trump for the nomination. Trump has a steady 30% of registered Republicans, but is unlikely to win over more than half of the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, cityexile said: You do touch on an interesting point. What Trump, the NF in France, UKIP, the SNP, and yes even the election of Corbyn all seem to share is electorates which are just about fed up to the back teeth of the current ruling elites, and a real disengagement of many from the political process. What we do need to recognise that it tends to be in those situations that real extremist parties can flourish and guard against that, whilst responding somehow to the real sense of frustration out there with so many mainstream politicians. How that happens I have not a clue. The problem is that people are not only pissed off with the ruling party but also the former ruling party, here in France over the past 20 years FN have been gaining ground slowly but surely, but not quite breaking through and the watchword here and the UK when UKIP do well is " the people have spoken and we will listen ", but they never do and on Sunday here in France they actually might have to not just listen but act in a way the electorate want for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: I don't want FPTP in each state like you get in American presidential elections. I actually think Trump will not be the Republican candidate. Mainstream party members can see he's offended key constituencies they wish to appeal to. Things will boil down to a sane candidate v Trump for the nomination. Trump has a steady 30% of registered Republicans, but is unlikely to win over more than half of the party. I agree with you but when Trump is out, our Yank 'buddies' just work your way down the line to the next one who is slightly less Trumpesque and so on so forth and end up with another **** called Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: The problem is that people are not only pissed off with the ruling party but also the former ruling party, here in France over the past 20 years FN have been gaining ground slowly but surely, but not quite breaking through and the watchword here and the UK when UKIP do well is " the people have spoken and we will listen ", but they never do and on Sunday here in France they actually might have to not just listen but act in a way the electorate want for a change. Agree. Maybe I should have expanded when I said 'ruling elites' I mean the major parties, in and out if power. Obviously you would expect me to say I hope the FN crash and burn, but it is that real sense of disengagement so many really do feel that is driving them and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, cityexile said: Agree. Maybe I should have expanded when I said 'ruling elites' I mean the major parties, in and out if power. Obviously you would expect me to say I hope the FN crash and burn, but it is that real sense of disengagement so many really do feel that is driving them. The difference here is it's the middle classes and not the disenfranchised that have engaged with the FN this time around and pray that doesn't happen in the UK, because the middle classes win and lose elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: The difference here is it's the middle classes and not the disenfranchised that have engaged with the FN this time around and pray that doesn't happen in the UK, because the middle classes win and lose elections. Indeed it is. The lessons for the Democrats for much of the 80s and 90s was dragging candidates to the left to win the nomination of the activists, who then had little chance of claiming the centre in the election (lesson for Labour here?). The GOP seem to be falling in to the same trap here. Like others have stated, I cannot really see him winning the nomination, but he will drag other candidates to the right. They are in danger of gift wrapping the election for Ms Clinton, who to most of the right is Satan reborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 11 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: I agree with you but when Trump is out, our Yank 'buddies' just work your way down the line to the next one who is slightly less Trumpesque and so on so forth and end up with another **** called Bush. Among Republican primary voters, 65% support Trump. Amongst the wider population (GOPs, Dems and Independents) only 37% approve. 5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: I wouldn't trust him to collect shopping trolleys from outside Tesco, let alone letting him have his finger on the nuclear button. He's a tw**. His basic pitch is "I'm the best candidate because I'm the richest". Yes, you inherited it, you dick! Trump likes to claim he is an excellent businessman as he is worth $2.6billion. However, if he'd merely invested his inheritance in the S&P 500 he would now be worth $8billion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, cityexile said: Indeed it is. The lessons for the Democrats for much of the 80s and 90s was dragging candidates to the left to win the nomination of the activists, who then had little chance of claiming the centre in the election (lesson for Labour here?). The GOP seem to be falling in to the same trap here. Like others have stated, I cannot really see him winning the nomination, but he will drag other candidates to the right. They are in danger of gift wrapping the election for Ms Clinton. Agree, apart from the highlighted portion, i'd be amazed if the Democrats win again, Obama has been a largely ineffective president who now appears to have given up the ghost, most leaders of a country usually leave an indelible legacy but I am struggling to think what Obama's will be to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Agree, apart from the highlighted portion, i'd be amazed if the Democrats win again, Obama has been a largely ineffective president who now appears to have given up the ghost, most leaders of a country usually leave an indelible legacy but I am struggling to think what Obama's will be to be honest. I suppose Obama has been massively hamstrung by Republicans control of Congress. It's hard to see legacies this early. Possible ones could be Obamacare and protection of the environment. Obama may also be the president who had the highest growth in private sector jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Agree, apart from the highlighted portion, i'd be amazed if the Democrats win again, Obama has been a largely ineffective president who now appears to have given up the ghost, most leaders of a country usually leave an indelible legacy but I am struggling to think what Obama's will be to be honest. Agree again (this cannot go on, we have not called each other names for ages!). The 'cycle' says it should be Republican this time. They won all the recent Congress elections. The real chance the Dems have is if the GOP chose somebody rather off the radar. It does seem however their establishment is just getting a tad nervous that might happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 2 minutes ago, Stoke_Gifford_Red said: I suppose Obama has been massively hamstrung by Republicans control of Congress. It's hard to see legacies this early. Possible ones could be Obamacare and protection of the environment. Obama may also be the president who had the highest growth in private sector jobs. I agree history decides legacies, but the possible legacy that you mention could all be undone by an incoming Republican with Republican majorities in both houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 4 minutes ago, cityexile said: Agree again (this cannot go on, we have not called each other names for ages!). The 'cycle' says it should be Republican this time. They won all the recent Congress elections. The real chance the Dems have is if the GOP chose somebody rather off the radar. It does seem however their establishment is just getting a tad nervous that might happen! I do try honestly, I just hate being misrepresented, have assumptions made of me and being labelled because my view might be different to theirs and in their world there must be labels, a select little gang you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 15 minutes ago, cityexile said: Agree again (this cannot go on, we have not called each other names for ages!). The 'cycle' says it should be Republican this time. They won all the recent Congress elections. The real chance the Dems have is if the GOP chose somebody rather off the radar. It does seem however their establishment is just getting a tad nervous that might happen! At the moment, most possible "head to heads" between Clinton and any democratic challengers have Clinton ahead. The likes of Carson, Cruz and Rubio are just behind Clinton - if against Trump the lead becomes double figures. Of course, Clinton is better known than many of the GOP challengers so as they become better known they may pull ahead. Interestingly, at present Clinton is odds on favourite (3/4) to be next president which means the bookies (or their punters) think she is most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 As soon as Trump came out with that line I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought: @Big Brother IS Donald Trump, and I claim my £5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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