The Batman Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Everyone jumping on trump for those comments. While we are on the subject shall we list the middle east Muslim countries that ban Israeli people from entering their lands??? Or am I a racist for bringing that up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 29 minutes ago, The Batman said: Everyone jumping on trump for those comments. While we are on the subject shall we list the middle east Muslim countries that ban Israeli people from entering their lands??? Or am I a racist for bringing that up.... Back in the seventies when I was travelling you weren't able to enter an Arab country if you had an Israeli stamp on your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 14 minutes ago, marshy said: Back in the seventies when I was travelling you weren't able to enter an Arab country if you had an Israeli stamp on your passport. I'm pretty sure that is still the case to be honest. Will have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 42 minutes ago, Big Brother said: True. A few years ago when I went to the Syrian embassy in Rome to apply for a visa they asked me "Have you ever traveled to the Occupied Territories" aka Israel. But don't forget it's only Western countries that should be castigated for choosing who comes into the country or not. Non-Western countries can do what they like. PS I'm seeing reports that Police have said that Trump was right: there are parts of London which are no-go areas for the Police. I don't know what 'no-go' means specifically but there you have it. Absa friggin lutly Bob. Stoning to death of homosexuals and rape victims. Just what we need to enrich the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, marshy said: Back in the seventies when I was travelling you weren't able to enter an Arab country if you had an Israeli stamp on your passport. But weren't most of the Arab countries on some kind of war footing with Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: True. A few years ago when I went to the Syrian embassy in Rome to apply for a visa they asked me "Have you ever traveled to the Occupied Territories" aka Israel. But don't forget it's only Western countries that should be castigated for choosing who comes into the country or not. Non-Western countries can do what they like. PS I'm seeing reports that Police have said that Trump was right: there are parts of London which are no-go areas for the Police. I don't know what 'no-go' means specifically but there you have it. Which parts of London? The Met Police Fed said that that comment from Trump was rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 55 minutes ago, richwwtk said: But weren't most of the Arab countries on some kind of war footing with Israel? And America is not on ''some kind of war footing'' now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, marshy said: And America is not on ''some kind of war footing'' now? If 14 deaths puts them on a war footing with Muslims then I hate to think what attitude they take towards their own people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 8 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Note - I'm not saying only muslims commit acts of terrorism in the USA (far from it) just that perhaps there's more to the context of Trump's words than we know about. There's an average of 1 mass shooting (4 or more victims) in America every day and I'd wager a tiny proportion are committed by radicalised Muslims. Trump is a thicko that doesn't know what he believes. Go back just a few years and he was saying completed different things to what he's saying now. Assuming he becomes the Republican candidate it will surely ensure a comfortable win for Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 16 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Is that how you see the situation between the USA and the muslim world? Have you forgotten 9/11? Here's a list of attacks by muslims on American assets. I have no idea how much of that list is accurate but if you scroll through it you can see that there is a hell of a lot going on that probably doesn't get reported in the UK. https://www.facebook.com/notes/anna-tomerlin/islamic-jihadist-muslim-terrorist-attacks-on-us-1801-2015/135450889824819/ Note - I'm not saying only muslims commit acts of terrorism in the USA (far from it) just that perhaps there's more to the context of Trump's words than we know about. So the solution to a perceived problem is to just ban a large proportion of the worlds population? I'm sure you could come up with a long list of black people shooting whites in America due to perceived injustices, does that mean Trump should call for a ban on all black people entering America? It's madness! Terrorist acts do not put you at war against any particular country or religion. All you are doing is tarring entire tranches of people with the 'terrorist' tag due to the actions of a tiny minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 58 minutes ago, Big Brother said: they were quotes from bobbies on the beat and a radio interview with a cop. Hmm. I lived there 17 years and while there are areas that the police tread rather carefully - as there are in Bristol and other cities - I certainly am not aware of "no go" zones. I've been in some dodgy areas - north Peckham, Woolwich, Thamesmead, but nowhere the cops don't patrol. Those areas are largely black/poor white incidentally, not Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 6 minutes ago, Big Brother said: I think you're mixing-up race ('black people') and a form of Islam which most of the world definitely is at war with right now. I'm not mixing up anything. The world is not at war with Islam, the world is at war with a few crazies with a very confused view of what Islam is about. It would be just as crazy to declare yourself at war with a particular race because of the actions of a minority of it's members as it would be to go to war with a religion because of the actions of a minority of its adherents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 10 minutes ago, Big Brother said: I'm not defending Trump or his ideas philosophy or policies, I don't know what they are. I am however saying perhaps there is more background to the statement he made than we know about. Or perhaps he's just an attention seeking lunatic? In any case the knee-jerk reaction against his statement is just depressing. The herd mentality is awful - I bet fewer than 5% would have compared what Trump said with what Carted did in the 1980s, and I think I am being generous there. The stream of lefty outrage is polluting the interwebs. And that petition to ban him from the UK? Do the people who signed that petition believe in free speech or not? Your mass shooting stat is probably true but you've got to admit that it's not often a bunch of non-muslim crooks high-jack passenger jets and fly them into New York sky-scrapers. Maybe, like you, they just believe in a country having a right to defend its borders - and they are defending it from a person they perceive to be 'dangerous' given his extreme views? Does that make them leftys? FWIW I wouldn't sign such a petition. Trump is welcome over here. Good luck to him, he'd probably need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: Some might find this interesting, others of you would probably prefer to have your eyes seared with a hot poker. It's a lecture given by Marine le Pen to the Oxford Union after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. It's followed by questions and answers. I post it here because it touches on some of the issues we're chatting about. Interestingly, you can hear the baying mob outside the theater. I always find it quite ironic that those who bleat the most about peoples civil liberties, absolutley detest those who express their "controversial views" when they are given a platform to share their views. I bet those outside shouting haven't a kin' clue what her views are on most things, because they do not ever listen to a thing she says. Same with Farage, Corbyn, Cameron et al. You see the same suspects absolutely hating certain people without ever really listening to what that person has said, they probably get most of their info from those wonderfully accurate facebook quotes. Edit: It just reminded me today when listening to LBC, Farage was the guest and some guy rings in and slaughters Farage for a comment he never made about Syrian Christian refugees, he had to explain that in fact it was him who was first out of the blocks to say how we should offer help to them because nobody in that region gives a crap about Christians, and part of the definition of refugee was those are fleeing persecution because of their religion. You just know the bloke was never going to listen without having his fingers in his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 1 minute ago, screech said: I always find it quite ironic that those who bleat the most about peoples civil liberties, absolutley detest those who express their "controversial views" when they are given a platform to share their views. I bet those outside shouting haven't a kin' clue what her views are on most things, because they do no ever listen to a thing she says. Same with Farage, Corbyn, Cameron et al. You see the same suspects absolutely hating certain people without ever really listening to what that person has said, they probably get most of their info from those wonderfully accurate facebook quotes. Absolutely but of course Screech, Trump even though he is a moron (which is not an offence of course) is a safe target for the great unwashed and the 'I support anybody's civil liberties as long as they agree with me' rentamob, because he doesn't come from an ethnic minority or a highjacked religion. I bet a petition against the vile piece of shit who murdered Lee Rigby suing for his teeth that 'fell' out, wouldn't get as much support or perhaps a petition against politicians trying to influence courts about bail for another scumbag who was part of cowardly gang who ripped off old people to the tune of 1 million, some of it almost certainly filtered to Isis and asking for bail so he can be with his family over christmas, a celebration his religion doesn't even celebrate FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: There's an average of 1 mass shooting (4 or more victims) in America every day and I'd wager a tiny proportion are committed by radicalised Muslims. Trump is a thicko that doesn't know what he believes. Go back just a few years and he was saying completed different things to what he's saying now. Assuming he becomes the Republican candidate it will surely ensure a comfortable win for Hillary. But just imagine should he become the Republican candidate and win! Can you imagine, Donald Trump, POTUS! No more Muslims allowed to enter the USA and, as Richwwtk said just below you, 'I'm sure you could come up with a long list of black people shooting whites in America due to perceived injustices, does that mean Trump should call for a ban on all black people entering America? It's madness!'. So no more blacks allowed in either, and he has already made very clear his views on Hispanics. And people think poor old Marine le Pen is far right wing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Hmm. I lived there 17 years and while there are areas that the police tread rather carefully - as there are in Bristol and other cities - I certainly am not aware of "no go" zones. I've been in some dodgy areas - north Peckham, Woolwich, Thamesmead, but nowhere the cops don't patrol. Those areas are largely black/poor white incidentally, not Muslim. I spent a lot of time working on social housing projects in Tottenham/Haringey a few years back including parts of Broadwater Farm. Admittedly it was a very `touchy` time due to the Baby P trial being ongoing at the time but I had a long conversation with an Asian BT engineer who told me that there were areas where his white colleagues were not sent due to the harassment they were likely to receive from the locals. TBF it wasn`t just principally Asian areas but also black ones but make of that what you will. I have to say, I had no problems but I wasn`t working solo, I was on site most of the time with other people. I also spent quite a bit of time on the same sort of thing in Tower Hamlets, principally Limehouse, and found the folks there to be some of the most welcoming and friendly I`ve ever worked amongst. It`s a big Bangladeshi area with a fair few old fashioned East End Londoners still living there and the mix really did seem to work. It got emabarrassing sometimes constantly being brought out samosas and stuff as the dear little old Asian ladies had seen you and thought you looked a bit cold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 On 11 December 2015 at 10:13, Red-Robbo said: Which parts of London? The Met Police Fed said that that comment from Trump was rubbish. I know absolutely nothing about whether there are any "no go" areas in London, but they are hardly going to admit it if it were true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 12, 2015 Report Share Posted December 12, 2015 On 11 December 2015 at 11:13, Red-Robbo said: Which parts of London? The Met Police Fed said that that comment from Trump was rubbish. Agree, officers in Lancashire specifically Preston claim that they have to seek permission from community leaders to enter certain Asian areas, allegedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 22 hours ago, Big Brother said: I read this this morning. I haven't checked all the nations. Most of these countries are not at war with Israel, they are against the situation re Palestine, and probably are not under threat from Israeli terrorists. It's another example of the total bias re the Trump comments. PS I am not for or against Israel. Sixteen countries forbid admission to Israeli passport holders: Algeria Bangladesh Brunei Iran Iraq (except Iraqi Kurdistan) Kuwait Lebanon (neighboring country; territory dispute – Shebaa farms) Libya Malaysia (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Home Affairs.) Oman Pakistan (Clearance permit needed from the Ministry of Internal Security.) Saudi Arabia Sudan Syria (neighboring country; territory dispute – Golan Heights) United Arab Emirates (accepted for transit only; not allowed for admission) Yemen In addition, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen do not allow entry to people with evidence of travel to Israel, or whose passports have either a used or an unused Israeli visa. As a consequence, many countries will allow for a second passport to be issued to citizens wishing to circumvent this restriction. Do you really want the US to be as nutty as Saudi Arabia or Libya? But you are still missing the point. Those countries discriminate against Israeli passport holders: they do not have a blanket ban on Jews entering them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 25 minutes ago, Big Brother said: No, obviously not. And you're splitting hairs a bit in your last sentence. The point I'm making is that the reaction to Trump's comments was mass-hypocrisy (others are doing / have done similar), hysteria and horrible group-think. The speed at which the petition to ban Trump from entering the country grew in numbers reminded me of the 'hate scene' from the film version of '1984'. Have to agree with this statement, as I have already said, i'm sure a poll to deny Lee Rigby's piece of shit murderer leave to sue over his teeth falling out wouldn't garner that level of support and that is frankly very sad and says a lot about the people of the UK IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Do you really want the US to be as nutty as Saudi Arabia or Libya? But you are still missing the point. Those countries discriminate against Israeli passport holders: they do not have a blanket ban on Jews entering them. I can sympathise with that point of view, always best to use a blanket when entering them...especially on that stony ground you often find out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 6 hours ago, Big Brother said: No, obviously not. And you're splitting hairs a bit in your last sentence. The point I'm making is that the reaction to Trump's comments was mass-hypocrisy (others are doing / have done similar), hysteria and horrible group-think. The speed at which the petition to ban Trump from entering the country grew in numbers reminded me of the 'hate scene' from the film version of '1984'. Trump's comments were borderline insane and fascistic IMO. To categorize people because of their religion - and for no other reason - is what IS are doing. And various other evil regimes through history. I didn't sign a petition to ban the ******, but I can't see anyone normal wanting to be associated with him. In your original comment on Trump you said you liked him because he made "social justice heads explode". Since when did wanting a just society be a bad thing? Democratic political parties all strive for that, surely, disagreeing only on the best way to get there. A just society does not mean everyone has to be exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Trump's comments were borderline insane and fascistic IMO. To categorize people because of their religion - and for no other reason - is what IS are doing. And various other evil regimes through history. I didn't sign a petition to ban the ******, but I can't see anyone normal wanting to be associated with him. In your original comment on Trump you said you liked him because he made "social justice heads explode". Since when did wanting a just society be a bad thing? Democratic political parties all strive for that, surely, disagreeing only on the best way to get there. A just society does not mean everyone has to be exactly the same. Trump is a **** RR, most intelligent people are aware of this, the poll is just an over hysterical reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 15 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Trump is a **** RR, most intelligent people are aware of this, the poll is just an over hysterical reaction. It was a petition, not a poll, Es. I can see where it comes from. We ban all sorts of extremists from coming here and Trump aligns himself with some in that terrain. I personally think he's just a populist idiot aiming for the votes of idiots, rather than a dangerous man however. He'd be dangerous if ever he got into power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: It was a petition, not a poll, Es. I can see where it comes from. We ban all sorts of extremists from coming here and Trump aligns himself with some in that terrain. I personally think he's just a populist idiot aiming for the votes of idiots, rather than a dangerous man however. He'd be dangerous if ever he got into power. Yes and we allow all sorts of dangerous people to walk around our streets spouting all kinds vitriol much worse than his vitriol totally unmolested and in most cases we give them money to allow them to carry on at will, pity there isn't the same hysterical outrage about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Trump is a **** RR, most intelligent people are aware of this, the poll is just an over hysterical reaction. Well I don't think anyone wants to see Abu Hamzas etc here. Difference there is the government doesn't either and they take action whenever they can. This was a petition to get the government to ban Trump. Of course, it's a silly idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 39 minutes ago, Big Brother said: I'll come back to whether I like Trump in a sec but there is a category of people i.e. 'social justice warriors' who, imo, espouse the most harmful political correctness, promote acceptance of things I hold in total disdain (e.g. Islam, the promotion of homosexuality to school children, left wing politics, the feminisation of men and so on) and who have an absurdly idealistic view of world, which is fine, people are free to believe what they want, but because of their reach through social media they are part of the current that is undermining Europe. The type of consensus they are part of has weakened Europe to such an extent, Europe has to outsource the defense of its border to effing Islamic Turkey. I mean, come on. How the hell did it get to this? Our civilisation has become weak *. The vindictive vomit I see written about Trump on Facebook and Twitter is written by children who think they are adults, they have no idea of the historical context they are living in, the value of free speech, and they are in denial about the difficult choices that will have to be faced eventually. So yeah, I was glad to see a bazillion melt-downs from that point of view. They need to wake-up. About Trump, I've said from the start I am not following the USA election, and have no idea of his policies. However, anyone who is not afraid to spell-out the real threat that Islamism poses for the world is imo brave and, whatever his politics, to be admired, because we all know, and it has been shown to be so, that any one who calls it like it really is, will be shot down in flames. * Putin showed Europe how to deal with the wanna-be Ottaman empire. The things that you write about have nothing whatsoever to do with social justice. However having read your apologies on this forum for a variety of dictators and despots I suppose a lack of concern for justice shouldn't surprise. As for Trump: Attacking and offending a fair proportion of the world's population has probably helped the cause of Islamism more than anything. In addition to being a bigot, he's also a fairly loathsome misogynist. I suggest you start "following" the US elections and check his various unpleasant, vacuous, idiotic and confused sayings and doings. He makes Reagan look like Einstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: Trump isn't the issue for me, confronting Islamism is, and for that reason, having thought about it, I am glad he said what he did. I sincerely don't care how Islamism benefited or not by what Trump said - who gives a ***k about the opinion of those barbarians? They are so far across the river of blood that whatever a personality in the USA said won't change anything. We, in civilisation, are free to form and express our opinions, we still have that right. If moderates are hurt, tough shite, most of the sensible ones already know that they need to weed-out the Islamist cancer PDQ, before it eats-up their religion (though the worringly large proportion who are sympathetic to Islamism won't give a damn). Until the moderates sort out their own (and I won't be holding my breath) and until we have leaders with enough balls to confront these bar stewards head-on, we will remain in a real struggle, and I hope there will continue to be men and women who will mock, insult, challenge and deride the religion of war for what it is: they are brave and some in Europe have paid the ultimate price. *sigh* So we agree that not everyone who was brought up as a Muslim is an Islamist. And by a leap of logic we might glean that discriminating specifically against Muslims is likely to anger them. So therefore we can also conclude that a policy as proposed by Trump which keeps non-observant smoking, drinking Muslims like my friend the dentist, your mate President Assad, and that bloke out of One Direction out of the US is likely to fuel anger against the States, increase an "us v them" attitude and -in short - help propogate the sort of embittered, segregated environment that the hate preachers rely on to radicalise young people. As far as I'm aware there isn't a single country in the world which checks your passport for religion and bans you if you are of the "wrong" creed. That's because it's morally wrong and contrary to international law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 35 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said: *sigh* So we agree that not everyone who was brought up as a Muslim is an Islamist. And by a leap of logic we might glean that discriminating specifically against Muslims is likely to anger them. So therefore we can also conclude that a policy as proposed by Trump which keeps non-observant smoking, drinking Muslims like my friend the dentist, your mate President Assad, and that bloke out of One Direction out of the US is likely to fuel anger against the States, increase an "us v them" attitude and -in short - help propogate the sort of embittered, segregated environment that the hate preachers rely on to radicalise young people. As far as I'm aware there isn't a single country in the world which checks your passport for religion and bans you if you are of the "wrong" creed. That's because it's morally wrong and contrary to international law. It might have taken some time, but I do believe we are getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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