Stop making excuses!

[Guest Lov3y1991]

I am sooooo fed up with hearing the same thing every weekend: "we should of won by 4 or 5". Well actually there is many reasons why we are NOT winning by 4 or 5! 

The referee is in no way to blame today at all. The truth is we didn't spend well in the summer. You cannot play with 3 at the back in the championship unless you have the 3 best defenders in the division. You need to know how to see games out I.e pressing on to score a second or shutting up shop. 

Cotterill does not understand how tactics can affect a game. He should of changed to 4 at the back from 80th minute onwards. 

We have too many players who aren't good enough for this level. 

What made me more angry than anything was cotterill shaking hands with every player by the tunnel at the end of the game. The players were as much to blame as he was and in my opinion need a massive dressing down for not seeing out the win. 

Change needed now before it's too late.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

I am sooooo fed up with hearing the same thing every weekend: "we should of won by 4 or 5". Well actually there is many reasons why we are NOT winning by 4 or 5! 

The referee is in no way to blame today at all. The truth is we didn't spend well in the summer. You cannot play with 3 at the back in the championship unless you have the 3 best defenders in the division. You need to know how to see games out I.e pressing on to score a second or shutting up shop. 

Cotterill does not understand how tactics can affect a game. He should of changed to 4 at the back from 80th minute onwards. 

We have too many players who aren't good enough for this level. 

What made me more angry than anything was cotterill shaking hands with every player by the tunnel at the end of the game. The players were as much to blame as he was and in my opinion need a massive dressing down for not seeing out the win. 

Change needed now before it's too late.

Is there some kind of unwritten rule that all new posters have to write crap?

[Guest Lov3y1991]

Let me know exactly what you find crap then? I find it crap that we can't beat the worst side in the league at home when we had numerous good chances to kill the game off. Cotterill has no plan B so see a game off. If you don't take your chances you can have no complaints about not winning the game. It really is as simple as that. 

[Robin1988]

If we didn't press for a second how did we miss all those chances?

If playing with a back 4 was so much better, why did our back 5 limit them to sod all during the game? Strangely enough when you concede from a set piece playing with a back 4 or 5 in open play makes **** all difference.

Is that enough crap to be getting on with?

[Guest Lov3y1991]

Yes we did press but we didn't take our chances which is my point. Since we weren't taking our chances we should of reverted to protecting the 1 0 win. So therefore we didn't accomplish either of these situations. 

Sod all? They had more shots on target than we did. Plus that is irrelevant when you concede in the 93rd minute. Windass did sod all in the play off final but took Hull to the premier league?

Every team plays with a back 4. 2 strong centre halves and defensively minded full backs. 

We played back 5? You must of been watching a different game to me. Back 3 does not work at this level. Like i said you would need the best 3 defenders in the division for that to work. 

You need a taste of reality. Seems to me you are more worried about your Otib rating rather than speaking the truth and facing up to reality. 

[cityexile]

Gutted to hot win today, gutted it might actually be another relegation year.The point us today, unlike MK, we did push for the second. Nothing to do with how many at the back, just a succession or missed chances.

[nickolas]

What does 4 or 5 at the back have to do with them getting a lucky bounce to their guy for their goal?! We shouldve won by 4 or 5, possibly even 6 or 7 but we didnt. We need a good cm and another goalscorer. I dont believe 352 is our issue. Its purely not scoring enough goals. 

[Robin1988]

6 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

Yes we did press but we didn't take our chances which is my point. Since we weren't taking our chances we should of reverted to protecting the 1 0 win. So therefore we didn't accomplish either of these situations. 

Sod all? They had more shots on target than we did. Plus that is irrelevant when you concede in the 93rd minute. Windass did sod all in the play off final but took Hull to the premier league?

Every team plays with a back 4. 2 strong centre halves and defensively minded full backs. 

We played back 5? You must of been watching a different game to me. Back 3 does not work at this level. Like i said you would need the best 3 defenders in the division for that to work. 

You need a taste of reality. Seems to me you are more worried about your Otib rating rather than speaking the truth and facing up to reality. 

No your point was you should decide how to manage a game, by pressing for a second or shutting up. We clearly pressed for a second so what has Cotterill done wrong there? Would you have liked him to take the penalty, Freeman's chance or others himself?

Name me one time they really threatened before the goal. Frankie had half a save to make from the same lad who scored but that's it. How many chances did we pass up to them? If you think they had more chances God help you. Even their own bloody manager disagrees with you.

If 3 at the back worked so badly why did we look so comfortable in open play? We conceded from a free kick, we could've been playing 2-6-2 and it would've made absolutely no difference at that point.

I couldn't give a shit about otib rating (although thank you for noticing) I care about you spouting bollocks. That ok?

[Guest Lov3y1991]

It has everything to do with it. A solid defence will see out games like today and we go home happy with 3 points. How much longer are you prepared to take this for? It was not a lucky bounce it was a poor clearance and panic at the back. The defence wasn't my main point anyway. My main point is that we don't know how to win a game. We need to be mature in our play and see games out. If you think Baker, Flint and Ayling are robust enough to see games out then you must be crazy. Not good enough to play with just 3 of them. Worked in league one but clearly not at this level, how many other teams do you see doing it?!?!?!?

[Guest Lov3y1991]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

No your point was you should decide how to manage a game, by pressing for a second or shutting up. We clearly pressed for a second so what has Cotterill done wrong there? Would you have liked him to take the penalty, Freeman's chance or others himself?

Name me one time they really threatened before the goal. Frankie had half a save to make from the same lad who scored but that's it. How many chances did we pass up to them? If you think they had more chances God help you. Even their own bloody manager disagrees with you.

If 3 at the back worked so badly why did we look so comfortable in open play? We conceded from a free kick, we could've been playing 2-6-2 and it would've made absolutely no difference at that point.

I couldn't give a shit about otib rating (although thank you for noticing) I care about you spouting bollocks. That ok?

We looked comfortable in open play because we were by far the better team in possession in the final 2/3rds of the pitch. (Simple answer). But when our defence was threatened we were vulnerable and conceded. We should of learnt from the MK Dons game. If you think 3 at the back works at this level then I would invite you to look at he championship table a bit more closely. 

[Robin1988]

You know when you defend a set piece you don't just stand there in a 4-4-2 line-up don't you?

We made one mistake and got punished for it. You can blame Cotterill all you want for not pushing for a second (?) or having a set number of players in defence completely irrelevant to the goal we conceded, sure.

[cityexile]

9 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

It has everything to do with it. A solid defence will see out games like today and we go home happy with 3 points. How much longer are you prepared to take this for? It was not a lucky bounce it was a poor clearance and panic at the back. The defence wasn't my main point anyway. My main point is that we don't know how to win a game. We need to be mature in our play and see games out. If you think Baker, Flint and Ayling are robust enough to see games out then you must be crazy. Not good enough to play with just 3 of them. Worked in league one but clearly not at this level, how many other teams do you see doing it?!?!?!?

 

 

Not many, but we are where we are. These players have been playing this system for the best part of two years now. To assume this squad has a better chance of staying up by clicking our fingers and assuming it will all click in a new system is a big call. Derby?

It may be medium term this does need to be addressed. You can look at tactics all you like however, the issue today was finishing, pure and simple.

[Robin1988]

5 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

We looked comfortable in open play because we were by far the better team in possession in the final 2/3rds of the pitch. (Simple answer). But when our defence was threatened we were vulnerable and conceded. We should of learnt from the MK Dons game. If you think 3 at the back works at this level then I would invite you to look at he championship table a bit more closely. 

Here's a thought bud. They forced two saves from Fielding all game and one was routine. Do you not think our defence might have dealt with their threats rather well?

[Guest Lov3y1991]

1 minute ago, Robin1988 said:

You know when you defend a set piece you don't just stand there in a 4-4-2 line-up don't you?

We made one mistake and got punished for it. You can blame Cotterill all you want for not pushing for a second (?) or having a set number of players in defence completely irrelevant to the goal we conceded, sure.

You are jumping on the formation bandwagon far too much now. It's about professionalism and mentality to see these games out (formation doesn't help l, but isn't the sole reason). The players are as much to blame as cotterill like I said in the original post. Doesn't matter how we conceded the fact is we did concede and lost 2 very vital points. If you're happy with that and can't suggest where any of the issues are then you don't really have a leg to stand on. Professional teams would time waste, keep the ball and put their bodies on the line in 4 minutes additional time. We didn't. 

[Robin1988]

Don't make repeated points about playing four at the back and then accuse someone else of jumping on the 'formation bandwagon'.

You can't argue with fools. Sorry. Goodbye. Call it a win if you like.

Oh and we did time waste.

[Chairman Mao]

selling Cunningham so we couldn't play a flat back four is looking a little foolish

[Guest Lov3y1991]

It was ONE of my points and you seemed to take it as my only point as your football knowledge is obviously very small. Take a look at the top teams in this division and you count up how many play with a back 3. Then count up how many have two solid centre halves and see how they are doing in the division  The league table does not lie. 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

10 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Here's a thought bud. They forced two saves from Fielding all game and one was routine. Do you not think our defence might have dealt with their threats rather well?

Didn't deal with the one that mattered. Who are you trying to fool? 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

13 minutes ago, cityexile said:

 

 

Not many, but we are where we are. These players have been playing this system for the best part of two years now. To assume this squad has a better chance of staying up by clicking our fingers and assuming it will all click in a new system is a big call. Derby?

It may be medium term this does need to be addressed. You can look at tactics all you like however, the issue today was finishing, pure and simple.

I like your point. But if you don't concede you can't lose. If your score 1 and don't concede you can't draw or lose. So can you really blame finishing as the only reason? 

[Simon79]

Why do people keep banging on about the formation? It's missed chances that are costing, it's that simple. We need too many chances to score. Yet, as been mentioned previously, if you make mistakes in this division, the standard of strikers in this division will punish you. Unfortunately, we haven't got one of those strikers. 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

4 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

selling Cunningham so we couldn't play a flat back four is looking a little foolish

Great point! A top player who wasn't replaced! 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Simon79 said:

Why do people keep banging on about the formation? It's missed chances that are costing, it's that simple. We need too many chances to score. Yet, as been mentioned previously, if you make mistakes in this division, the standard of strikers in this division will punish you. Unfortunately, we haven't got one of those strikers. 

Exactly....If we/you take chances teams are not pressuring you if you dont they are still in it...Its pretty simple

We should have been 5 up before the 95th minute. 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

3 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Why do people keep banging on about the formation? It's missed chances that are costing, it's that simple. We need too many chances to score. Yet, as been mentioned previously, if you make mistakes in this division, the standard of strikers in this division will punish you. Unfortunately, we haven't got one of those strikers. 

But defences in this division are so strong so you need more chances. However our defence is so weak and teams only need one chance to punish us which has happened so many times already this season. Formation matters and so does keeping our goals not just scoring them! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lov3y1991 said:

I am sooooo fed up with hearing the same thing every weekend: "we should of won by 4 or 5". Well actually there is many reasons why we are NOT winning by 4 or 5! 

The referee is in no way to blame today at all. The truth is we didn't spend well in the summer. You cannot play with 3 at the back in the championship unless you have the 3 best defenders in the division. You need to know how to see games out I.e pressing on to score a second or shutting up shop. 

Cotterill does not understand how tactics can affect a game. He should of changed to 4 at the back from 80th minute onwards. 

We have too many players who aren't good enough for this level. 

What made me more angry than anything was cotterill shaking hands with every player by the tunnel at the end of the game. The players were as much to blame as he was and in my opinion need a massive dressing down for not seeing out the win. 

Change needed now before it's too late.

Utter rubbish ... Were you at derby ????? Did you see what 4 at the back done for us. Stick to your x box and keep telling yourself that your a footballing genius. Have you ever even kicked a ball ??? 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

2 minutes ago, robin4ever said:

Utter rubbish ... Were you at derby ????? Did you see what 4 at the back done for us. Stick to your x box and keep telling yourself that your a footballing genius. Have you ever even kicked a ball ??? 

But Derby are a top championship side Charlton aren't??????? Didn't think that one through did you? 

I would expect to beat a poor championship side at home. Wouldn't expect a win away from home against a team challenging for promotion. 

[cityexile]

2 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

I like your point. But if you don't concede you can't lose. If your score 1 and don't concede you can't draw or lose. So can you really blame finishing as the only reason? 

Clearly.

Having seen a lot of these relegation clashes over the years, they are often niggly poor matches with loads of mistakes. When winning, teams also get nervous. In some ways I was impressed we kept on the front foot for as long as we did. Just the last few minutes really it sounded like we were sitting back.

We have to win the header for the long ball that comes in for their goal, and this is relegation form for sure, but you can never guarantee a clean sheet. If wehae simply tried to defend the one nil, equally many would have had a go. This was overwhelmingly about a lack of quality in front of their goal.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

But defences in this division are so strong so you need more chances. However our defence is so weak and teams only need one chance to punish us which has happened so many times already this season. Formation matters and so does keeping our goals not just scoring them! 

Chances are by definition chances. Goalkeepers are better so strikers need to be more clinical...We are creating chances and not taking them, that begets pressure as the opposition go to try find a winner, equalizer.

Scoring and defending are not mutually exclusive. We need to score more and we will almost certainly concede less particularly late on! Do you not think? 

[Simon79]

2 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

But defences in this division are so strong so you need more chances. However our defence is so weak and teams only need one chance to punish us which has happened so many times already this season. Formation matters and so does keeping our goals not just scoring them! 

So defences in this division are so strong ( yet we create numerous chances ), but still don't put it in the back of the net. Yet other teams create one chance and score. And you think it's the formation that's the problem? It comes back to the same old thing, put the ball in the back of the net. Not that I like saying this, but as an example, if we had the Maynard we remember, we would be possibly top half.

[Guest Lov3y1991]

Of course scoring is a massive issue. But last time I checked the transfer window was shut. We need to work on shutting out other teams and do our best going forward until the transfer window comes. 

[Guest ashtonphil]

We were chatting about this on the way home and the basic issue is "Game management!!" 

Why were we offside  from our own goal kick in the last minute giving them a chance to counter attack and score? This is basic forward play

Why didn't we try and run and play the balls into the corners?- I'm sure Kidija could keep the ball there all day with his skill

Why didn't the manager realise that a pair of fresh legs will run more than a pair of tired ones?

We have an experienced manager and some experienced pros who should know this and pass it on.... Until we learn how to do these things we will continue to concede in the ,last minute to dreadful teams such as Charlton

 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

1 minute ago, ashtonphil said:

We were chatting about this on the way home and the basic issue is "Game management!!" 

Why were we offside  from our own goal kick in the last minute giving them a chance to counter attack and score? This is basic forward play

Why didn't we try and run and play the balls into the corners?- I'm sure Kidija could keep the ball there all day with his skill

Why didn't the manager realise that a pair of fresh legs will run more than a pair of tired ones?

We have an experienced manager and some experienced pros who should know this and pass it on.... Until we learn how to do these things we will continue to concede in the ,last minute to dreadful teams such as Charlton

 

Finally somebody who is talking some sense! 

 

[Guest Lov3y1991]

4 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

So defences in this division are so strong ( yet we create numerous chances ), but still don't put it in the back of the net. Yet other teams create one chance and score. And you think it's the formation that's the problem? It comes back to the same old thing, put the ball in the back of the net. Not that I like saying this, but as an example, if we had the Maynard we remember, we would be possibly top half.

Yes they are strong because they may let us have chances but they stop us scoring. Isn't that their job to stop us scoring? Stop looking at the stats (shots on/off target), we need more clear cut chances! 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Lov3y1991 said:

Of course scoring is a massive issue. But last time I checked the transfer window was shut. We need to work on shutting out other teams and do our best going forward until the transfer window comes. 

Yes of course we do. I completely agree!! But the issue becomes inviting pressure (change of formation etc etc) will make us even more vulnerable to conceding with limited ability to get back in it. If the ball is in there half they cant score. I know this hurts us all but moving a style of play right now with what we have will create more problems, which is why SC sticks with it. You play the game not to a coach's wet dream but to complement what you have available...our players know what they are doing but our forwards are not firing and our midfield and defenders don't pitch in enough (Have we got any from anyone in our midfield)...We have become shot shy or shot disabled at second ball and dead balls!

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

23 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

selling Cunningham so we couldn't play a flat back four is looking a little foolish

Yes, I agree and he would have taken and more than likely scored the penalty.

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, ashtonphil said:

We were chatting about this on the way home and the basic issue is "Game management!!" 

Why were we offside  from our own goal kick in the last minute giving them a chance to counter attack and score? This is basic forward play

Why didn't we try and run and play the balls into the corners?- I'm sure Kidija could keep the ball there all day with his skill

Why didn't the manager realise that a pair of fresh legs will run more than a pair of tired ones?

We have an experienced manager and some experienced pros who should know this and pass it on.... Until we learn how to do these things we will continue to concede in the ,last minute to dreadful teams such as Charlton

 

I agree...We need a head on the pitch and SC needs to tae more responsibility in making sure we hit the corner and keep it there etc...Being offside from a goal kick is unforgivable!!

[Guest ashtonphil]

1 minute ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Yes, I agree and he would have taken and more than likely scored the penalty.

Didn't Kodjia score pens for fun in France? There is a clip of him doing a "Paneka!!"

[Robin1988]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

I agree...We need a head on the pitch and SC needs to tae more responsibility in making sure we hit the corner and keep it there etc...Being offside from a goal kick is unforgivable!!

Really? You don't think the players should know that for themselves?

We do need better game management and no one is disputing that, the issue is laying it at the manager's door; not sure what else he could've done. We should have been out of sight, he doesn't have any control over chance conversion except signing strikers, which he did at least try to do in the summer. And got one pretty decent one in in the form of Kodjia.

Did we need to change? For Monday maybe yes. But today? Were they knocking on the door or were we looking the more likely to get another? It was far the latter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

1 hour ago, Lov3y1991 said:

I am sooooo fed up with hearing the same thing every weekend: "we should of won by 4 or 5". Well actually there is many reasons why we are NOT winning by 4 or 5! 

The referee is in no way to blame today at all. The truth is we didn't spend well in the summer. You cannot play with 3 at the back in the championship unless you have the 3 best defenders in the division. You need to know how to see games out I.e pressing on to score a second or shutting up shop. 

Cotterill does not understand how tactics can affect a game. He should of changed to 4 at the back from 80th minute onwards. 

We have too many players who aren't good enough for this level. 

What made me more angry than anything was cotterill shaking hands with every player by the tunnel at the end of the game. The players were as much to blame as he was and in my opinion need a massive dressing down for not seeing out the win. 

Change needed now before it's too late.

Do you know what I'm bored with every weekend? People bring up the summers "transfer activity" 

yes we get it! It was shite, we didn't bring in anyone ... Blah blah get over it ... 

you're as ******* boring as you preach mate. 

[REDOXO]

28 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

selling Cunningham so we couldn't play a flat back four is looking a little foolish

Sadly this is true and all part of the closed season cock up.

We were confident of bringing in better players, it did not happen...Cunningham Jet even the goalkeeper let go with no one to replace them....The cock up that was just keeps on giving!

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Countryfile said:

Is there some kind of unwritten rule that all new posters have to write crap?

Agree, he SHOULD OF kept quiet.

[Simon79]

8 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

7 minutes ago, Lov3y1991 said:

Yes they are strong because they may let us have chances but they stop us scoring. Isn't that their job to stop us scoring? Stop looking at the stats (shots on/off target), we need more clear cut chances! 

They stop us scoring, or we don't convert our chances? As in, we miss the target or their keeper saves it? there is a big difference. On the keeping clean sheets, I totally agree. It's the first thing a defensive group, whether it be a 3 or 4 at the back should be thinking of. Not so sure it's the formation that causes those problems though. 

[Guest ashtonphil]

8 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Really? You don't think the players should know that for themselves?

We do need better game management and no one is disputing that, the issue is laying it at the manager's door; not sure what else he could've done. We should have been out of sight, he doesn't have any control over chance conversion except signing strikers, which he did at least try to do in the summer. And got one pretty decent one in in the form of Kodjia.

Did we need to change? For Monday maybe yes. But today? Were they knocking on the door or were we looking the more likely to get another? It was far the latter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sorry I have to disagree - foresight is better than hindsight as it should be drummed into players how to close out the game. It should almost be second nature to them. I know its boring and not nice pretty football but if we'd done it well today, we'd be talking about a job well done and not chucking away two points to a side that were dreadful

[redysteadygo1]

18 minutes ago, ashtonphil said:

We were chatting about this on the way home and the basic issue is "Game management!!" 

Why were we offside  from our own goal kick in the last minute giving them a chance to counter attack and score? This is basic forward play

Why didn't we try and run and play the balls into the corners?- I'm sure Kidija could keep the ball there all day with his skill

Why didn't the manager realise that a pair of fresh legs will run more than a pair of tired ones?

We have an experienced manager and some experienced pros who should know this and pass it on.... Until we learn how to do these things we will continue to concede in the ,last minute to dreadful teams such as Charlton

 

Can you be offside from a goal kick?

[Guest ashtonphil]

5 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Can you be offside from a goal kick?

according to the linesman today you could !!!! That's why his flag went up in stoppage time - Ok it might have been a free kick for offside against them but the point is the same... 

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Really? You don't think the players should know that for themselves?

We do need better game management and no one is disputing that, the issue is laying it at the manager's door; not sure what else he could've done. We should have been out of sight, he doesn't have any control over chance conversion except signing strikers, which he did at least try to do in the summer. And got one pretty decent one in in the form of Kodjia.

Did we need to change? For Monday maybe yes. But today? Were they knocking on the door or were we looking the more likely to get another? It was far the latter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Yes they should, but they don't do it, that is clear is it not?

I wasn't laying at the managers door, I was merely stating that he needs to be more involved in making it happen as it is obviously not! You wont find anyone that wants SC to continue more than me, however its in front of you that we lost two points by not seeing it out professionally enough!!

I agree we should have been out of sight and have said so six times at least, but we were not and conceded another sloppy goal...

Its not about my hindsight its about enough foresight to know they are going to larrup the ball in your box at 1-0 or 2-1 as Dons with a minute to go and how to stop that for the most part, if you are not more than a goal clear

[Simon79]

3 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

Can you be offside from a goal kick?

No

[Robin1988]

3 minutes ago, ashtonphil said:

Sorry I have to disagree - foresight is better than hindsight as it should be drummed into playets how to close out the game. It should almost be second nature to them. I knoiw its boring and not nice pretty football but if we'd doen it well today, we'd be talking about a job well done and not chucking away two points to a side that were dreadful

Foresight definitely - I'm sure we practice goal kick deliveries, and they don't include our players being offside.

No amount of training could've prevented what were stupid individual errors in the build-up to the goal. Sometimes players have to take responsibility, they were in a position where they could've taken three points. No, they should have.

We did throw away two points. It's just not the fault of the management in this case. Short of kicking the ball in the net himself or bringing himself on to defend the free-kick, there's little else SC could have done. His team should've won today, simple as that.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

No

No you cant directly, but that really is not the point the poster was making. We gave them possession needlessly giving them a dead ball was the point as you know

[KeepUpLino]

Look on the bright side chaps, at least we'll be a big team in a small pond again next season :s

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Foresight definitely - I'm sure we practice goal kick deliveries, and they don't include our players being offside.

No amount of training could've prevented what were stupid individual errors in the build-up to the goal. Sometimes players have to take responsibility, they were in a position where they could've taken three points. No, they should have.

We did throw away two points. It's just not the fault of the management in this case. Short of kicking the ball in the net himself or bringing himself on to defend the free-kick, there's little else SC could have done. His team should've won today, simple as that.

Yes they could...Stupid individual errors and the eradication thereof is exactly one of the reasons they train.

Its not the fault of the management we have a young team that does questionable things, it was a clear decision, but we need a head on the field and SC needs to take that responsibility also....

Anyway over it now...Lets get something on Monday!!

[cityexile]

Kodjia caught off side six times today. Either we are misreading his runs, or he is not watching the line as he should. 

[Simon79]

13 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

 

[Guest ashtonphil]

10 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Foresight definitely - I'm sure we practice goal kick deliveries, and they don't include our players being offside.

No amount of training could've prevented what were stupid individual errors in the build-up to the goal. Sometimes players have to take responsibility, they were in a position where they could've taken three points. No, they should have.

We did throw away two points. It's just not the fault of the management in this case. Short of kicking the ball in the net himself or bringing himself on to defend the free-kick, there's little else SC could have done. His team should've won today, simple as that.

Kodjia was probably offsdie waiting for the through ball from Freeman that never ever arrvied.....

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

3 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Kodjia caught off side six times today. Either we are misreading his runs, or he is not watching the line as he should.

He is too clever for our midfield. ~We haven't anybody in their who can spot or indeed time the pass through to him.

[Simon79]

9 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

No you cant directly, but that really is not the point the poster was making. We gave them possession needlessly giving them a dead ball was the point as you know

I answered a fairly straightforward question, with a correct answer. There was no sarcasm intended. For a change!

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Simon79 said:

I answered a fairly straightforward question, with a correct answer. There was no sarcasm intended. For a change!

Cool! Time for the pub!

[Guest ashtonphil]

7 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

He is too clever for our midfield. ~We haven't anybody in their who can spot or indeed time the pass through to him.

We have he just doesn't do it.... Someone posted last week that Freeman ignores Kodjia's runs .. So I thought I'd watch to today and see...

There were at least three ocassions today that Freeman could have played in Kodjia and didn't .. WHY!!!!!!!

 

[spudski]

59 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Why do people keep banging on about the formation? It's missed chances that are costing, it's that simple. We need too many chances to score. Yet, as been mentioned previously, if you make mistakes in this division, the standard of strikers in this division will punish you. Unfortunately, we haven't got one of those strikers. 

It's conceding goals that's our problem...not missed chances.

We've scored approx. the same amount of goals as Leeds and Blackburn who are mid table.

If we were to make our GD +1 we would have had to score 40 goals....5 more than Derby who are top of the league having scored 35.

The way we play allows teams to score way too easily.

SC is looking at a game plan where he knows other teams will get chances. He's trying to create more chances...but in doing so leaves us wide open and easy to score against.

Today...Charlton had slightly more possession and 50% more shots on target.

'Dominating' games is ok...if you score and make it hard to score against. But we don't...we concede a ridiculous amount. Nearly 2 a game.

By that we are looking at having to score 3 a game to win....which is nuts.

How SC can't see this is anyone's business...but it is purely down to our 'Formation/set up' and not the quality of the players as to why we are losing.

We should comfortably be a mid table team with our players.

SC is totally at fault imho, for our predicament.

[BobBobSuperBob]

56 minutes ago, ashtonphil said:

Didn't Kodjia score pens for fun in France? There is a clip of him doing a "Paneka!!"

Think you are right ap

His confidence is shot and that may be the reason he's not taking them ?

His face and frustration in front Ateyo second half said it all on a few occasions and I hate to say but he doesn't look like he's going to score at the moment - he's rushing / snatching his finishes and seemingly getting more and more anxious

What I will give him with applause is that doesn't and didn't stop him getting in positions for chances or stop working tirelessly - certainly not looking the calm finisher at moment that we saw on some of the Angers clips

In desperate need of a dose of finishing confidence - a couple in off the knee would do to get him going .

[Robbored]

This is such a boring and dull topic ffs!

We all know the fiasco over the summer and how it's affected our season. Cotterill simply mentions it frequently. Quite right to.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

This is such a boring and dull topic ffs!

We all know the fiasco over the summer and how it's affected our season. Cotterill simply mentions it frequently. Quite right to.

Yes it hasn't helped Robbo...but with the players we have, I truly believe we could be mid table if we didn't play so open.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes it hasn't helped Robbo...but with the players we have, I truly believe we could be mid table if we didn't play so open.

 

Agree with that Spud, the core of the team is good.. needs a bit more depth.

Slightly off tangent. Getting sick of the double standards from posters (not just on here) referring to the individual mistakes is not the fault of SC, yet slammed SOD everytime Flinty and co. made an error (Port Vale away springs to mind). Its one or the other...

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

Agree with that Spud, the core of the team is good.. needs a bit more depth.

Slightly off tangent. Getting sick of the double standards from posters (not just on here) referring to the individual mistakes is not the fault of SC, yet slammed SOD everytime Flinty and co. made an error (Port Vale away springs to mind). Its one or the other...

SC has said recently that he can't get anymore out of his players. It's obviously not working...so why does he continue to play so open?

We are in the relegation zone at Xmas with a horrendous negative GD...football generally judges at this time of year, as to a good indication of where you could be come the end of the season.

I really don't understand why SC doesn't change the way we are set up.

He seems completely trans fixed on this way of football...he's got all the Clubs teams playing this way...is he too stubborn to change to save face?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

SC has said recently that he can't get anymore out of his players. It's obviously not working...so why does he continue to play so open?

We are in the relegation zone at Xmas with a horrendous negative GD...football generally judges at this time of year, as to a good indication of where you could be come the end of the season.

I really don't understand why SC doesn't change the way we are set up.

He seems completely trans fixed on this way of football...he's got all the Clubs teams playing this way...is he too stubborn to change to save face?

The thing is while I agree with you man, I could see us miraculously turning Burnley over. I dont know why

One of the unexplained mysteries of life.

Think I said in another post... that 4 wins in 23, 7 goals in the last 11 and this hideous GD isn't good enough. I'm sure SC and SL dont want accept that it is so I dont get why some fans are happy with putting in some half decent performances with no end result.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

The thing is while I agree with you man, I could see us miraculously turning Burnley over. I dont know why

One of the unexplained mysteries of life.

Think I said in another post... that 4 wins in 23, 7 goals in the last 11 and this hideous GD isn't good enough. I'm sure SC and SL dont want accept that it is so I dont get why some fans are happy with putting in some half decent performances with no end result.

I agree...I said in the past that we will have a few good results...it's the nature of this league.

But like you point out...facts don't lie...we are where we are, even though we've dominated games. Dominating games makes no difference if you play so open and keep conceding.

If this was any other manager in this position people would be calling for his head...but because he won us promotion from Div 3 he seems immune.

Personally I would rather see SC change his set up than go right now...if that didn't work, then we would know it was either the manager or lack of quality in the team.

If it worked....then we would know the players are ok....as it stands we know neither imho.

[cityexile]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

SC has said recently that he can't get anymore out of his players. It's obviously not working...so why does he continue to play so open?

We are in the relegation zone at Xmas with a horrendous negative GD...football generally judges at this time of year, as to a good indication of where you could be come the end of the season.

I really don't understand why SC doesn't change the way we are set up.

He seems completely trans fixed on this way of football...he's got all the Clubs teams playing this way...is he too stubborn to change to save face?

Whilst agreeing with much of what you say, just did not think it was the problem today. Other than some naivety in the last five minutes, it could be argued that Plan A was spot on today, just really poor finishing.

The issue is the lack of a Plan B against other sort of teams. Of course there are teams with bigger budgets than us in this league, but have never accepted we cannot compete. Frankly, if we finish behind MK and Preston than we have failed dismally.

[Squire Dastardly]

Why is it always somebody else's fault when we throw away two points and always brilliant management when we scrape through? This man is becoming unbearable and unsupportable.

[cityboy]

5 hours ago, Lov3y1991 said:

Yes they are strong because they may let us have chances but they stop us scoring. Isn't that their job to stop us scoring? Stop looking at the stats (shots on/off target), we need more clear cut chances! 

You're talking nonsense. Charlton didn't stop us scoring at all. We did that ourselves. If we scored even 20% of our chances we'd have scored 4 today. That's nothing to do with being a good defence (the amount of chances we carved out decries that theory), and everything to do with us not putting the ball in the back of the net. As for us needing more clear cut chances, you must have been watching a different game than me - teams don't get as many as we did today at this level of football very often at all.

[cityboy]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

If this was any other manager in this position people would be calling for his head...but because he won us promotion from Div 3 he seems immune.

Not sure I agree with this. I think it's more that we're playing, mostly, good football that is preventing more criticism. The fact that I'm entertained at Ashton Gate is a positive. I actually enjoy watching football  down there these days, which hasn't always been the case in the past, even when we've been winning.

We're not a million miles away from being a good team. A couple of additions in January, then a few more in the summer should see us right. So far, SC hasn't done anything that makes me believe he isn't the right man for the job.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, cityboy said:

Not sure I agree with this. I think it's more that we're playing, mostly, good football that is preventing more criticism. The fact that I'm entertained at Ashton Gate is a positive. I actually enjoy watching football  down there these days, which hasn't always been the case in the past, even when we've been winning.

We're not a million miles away from being a good team. A couple of additions in January, then a few more in the summer should see us right. So far, SC hasn't done anything that makes me believe he isn't the right man for the job.

I agree...it is attractive to watch.

But anyone can play attractive football and lose.

It's finding a balance. Unfortunately all this attractive football leaves us open to conceding goals too easily.

I honestly believe SC could turn our season around, with the players we have and a few additions, if we change the way we play.

Buying in new players and still playing this system is not going to be the answer imho.

We are conceding nearly 2 goals a game...that means we have to score 3 to win as it is. Which in my mind is complete madness...however attractive it looks.

4 wins from 23 games is not attractive...however way you look at it.