GrahamC Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 For a variety of reasons (mainly domestic), I haven't been able to see them play this season so this is based on the views of those I respect from here and reading the OS, but wouldn't it be worth a couple of these lads being on the bench on Saturday? According to my maths, if Derrick Williams is still out and Korey isn't required on paternal duty we have 16 players available for the weekend at present, assuming no signings before Saturday now (which is always wise with us) and so there are 2 spots to fill. Surely the likes of Zak Vyner and Joe Morrell would benefit from being on the bench in a game where league points are not at stake, even if the likelihood of them getting on was fairly slim? Those of you who watch the U21s may think there are better candidates than these two, but the alternative, a subs bench of 4 or 5 seems unnecessary and embarrassing to me. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, GrahamC said: For a variety of reasons (mainly domestic), I haven't been able to see them play this season so this is based on the views of those I respect from here and reading the OS, but wouldn't it be worth a couple of these lads being on the bench on Saturday? According to my maths, if Derrick Williams is still out and Korey isn't required on paternal duty we have 16 players available for the weekend at present, assuming no signings before Saturday now (which is always wise with us) and so there are 2 spots to fill. Surely the likes of Zak Vyner and Joe Morrell would benefit from being on the bench in a game where league points are not at stake, even if the likelihood of them getting on was fairly slim? Those of you who watch the U21s may think there are better candidates in Han these two, but the alternative, a subs bench of 4 or 5 seems unnecessary and embarrassing to me. Thoughts? If we are truly short and Baker, Williams and Smith can't play then yes I am all for it. Reward a couple of the young guys who deserve it and sit them on the bench of a first team match. Gives them the impression that the hard work is paying off and aren't too far away. Though with SC, he has consistently proved he doesn't believe in it. He'd rather have 4-5 subs that are first teamers than have 7 with 2 youth players on it. We have to be one of the few clubs with a reluctance to include our youth team players. Either our U21 are one of the worst in England or they are severely mismanaged. I'll let you guys decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, GrahamC said: For a variety of reasons (mainly domestic), I haven't been able to see them play this season so this is based on the views of those I respect from here and reading the OS, but wouldn't it be worth a couple of these lads being on the bench on Saturday? According to my maths, if Derrick Williams is still out and Korey isn't required on paternal duty we have 16 players available for the weekend at present, assuming no signings before Saturday now (which is always wise with us) and so there are 2 spots to fill. Surely the likes of Zak Vyner and Joe Morrell would benefit from being on the bench in a game where league points are not at stake, even if the likelihood of them getting on was fairly slim? Those of you who watch the U21s may think there are better candidates than these two, but the alternative, a subs bench of 4 or 5 seems unnecessary and embarrassing to me. Thoughts? Cotterill has ignored that option 3/4 times since he's been here and not filled the subs bench. Can't see him filling it Saturday either. People in charge of the academy aren't too happy about that, disappointed that he wont even offer one the chance to sit on the bench. If he did, the two lads who went out to Portugal would probably be a decent shout. They've played with the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillies Downs Leeds Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 There was a young left sided defender, whose name escapes me, that played quite a bit on the Pre-season tour. I would have thought that it would be ideal for someone like him to be involved at the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLR Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said: There was a young left sided defender, whose name escapes me, that played quite a bit on the Pre-season tour. I would have thought that it would be ideal for someone like him to be involved at the weekend. Lloyd Kelly - he has looked good in the handful of games I have seen him play in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: If we are truly short and Baker, Williams and Smith can't play then yes I am all for it. Reward a couple of the young guys who deserve it and sit them on the bench of a first team match. Gives them the impression that the hard work is paying off and aren't too far away. Though with SC, he has consistently proved he doesn't believe in it. He'd rather have 4-5 subs that are first teamers than have 7 with 2 youth players on it. We have to be one of the few clubs with a reluctance to include our youth team players. Either our U21 are one of the worst in England or they are severely mismanaged. I'll let you guys decide. That 16 already includes Baker and Smith but not Williams who apparently hasn't trained this week, that's how short we are at present. Cotterill may well choose to go with only 5 or 6 subs on Saturday, (we didn't have the full number at home to Burnley or at Ipswich) but we all get the point now that we don't have enough players, so I really don't see what it proves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Being unable to fill a subs bench is embarrassing. Overlooking the Under 21s to fix that problem is pathetic. I say complete the bench with the Under 21s. If the manager doesn't think that they are capable even of that then why do we have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, GrahamC said: That 16 already includes Baker and Smith but not Williams who apparently hasn't trained this week, that's how short we are at present. Cotterill may well choose to go with only 5 or 6 subs on Saturday, (we didn't have the full number at home to Burnley or at Ipswich) but we all get the point now that we don't have enough players, so I really don't see what it proves. Because Cotts is in charge and is too stubborn to change how he does things. I'd be amazed if Morrell or any of the other invisible players from the U21s/Academy get the remotest sniff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 7, 2016 Admin Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 30 minutes ago, GrahamC said: That 16 already includes Baker and Smith but not Williams who apparently hasn't trained this week, that's how short we are at present. Cotterill may well choose to go with only 5 or 6 subs on Saturday, (we didn't have the full number at home to Burnley or at Ipswich) but we all get the point now that we don't have enough players, so I really don't see what it proves. That Cotts likes a good sulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomad Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, Ian M said: That Cotts likes a good sulk. Grown man acting like a 2 year old springs to mind. Get on with it or get out Cotts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I would rest our key players which for me are Kodjia, Korey and Flint. Tuesday night is a massive game for this Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Cotts is probably thinking "I don't use subs anyway so what's the point in filling the bench." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkRed! Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think this is actually a disgrace and had not quite appreciated that we have had a light bench this season. In the first instance, I support SC so this is not an anti SC post. My own view is that we should have at least 2 U21 or U18 players on the bench for every game (not including GK). This should be a mandatory requirement from the board. SC made a big deal when he was appointed about working with and bringing through young players. I know a couple of the U21's have trained with the first team, which is the very least we should be promoting given the amount of money being spent on the Academy. How many players has SC actually brought through and how is the youth set up being supported .... Bryan was already playing in the team, as was Reid. Burns had made some appearances. All 3 appear not to be his flavour of the month which is extraordinary really as my own view is that whilst light weight Reid has been more effective than Freeman when I have seen him play and Bryan is far better than Williams who is being played out of position and struggles to take people on. Burns should have been given an opportunity to play upfront as a sub for AW. His game time has been unacceptable considering he continues to bang in the goals at U21 level for Wales and has a snr call up.There are not many in our squad that can say that. If the lads in the U21 and U18 are considered by SC not to be good enough why the hell are we spending so much money on the set up. In fact, I would go a step further and require us to have at least 3 home grown academy players in the first 11 with a further 2 players always in the matchday squad as stated above . That is the only way to keep attracting players at that level as they know they will get a chance. We have brought through quality players who have gone on to have good careers and played at a higher level than Lg 1 - Matt Hill, Stephen Henderson, Tommy Doc, Cole Skuse, Leroy Lita, Danny Coles, David Cotterill all spring to mind. More recently, our better U21 players have been picked up by clubs with a higher category of Academy..... thus we need to be able to do something different as a carrot to keep them or to encourage young players generally to join us. With our transfer policy an utter shambles surely the need to grow our own is even more pressing. The overall strategy of the club generally is immensely frustrating at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 28 minutes ago, Super said: I would rest our key players which for me are Kodjia, Korey and Flint. Tuesday night is a massive game for this Club. This. I couldn't give a flying **** about the Cup, it's all about Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 hours ago, GrahamC said: That 16 already includes Baker and Smith but not Williams who apparently hasn't trained this week, that's how short we are at present. Cotterill may well choose to go with only 5 or 6 subs on Saturday, (we didn't have the full number at home to Burnley or at Ipswich) but we all get the point now that we don't have enough players, so I really don't see what it proves. Is Baker going to be allowed to play by Villa (if fit)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Super said: I would rest our key players which for me are Kodjia, Korey and Flint. Tuesday night is a massive game for this Club. The issue is we don't have the players to replace them. Agard isn't fit still, Reid can come in for Smith but then no midfield cover, and we only have 2 fit CB's in Flint and Ayling, let alone 3 to play our usual formation. 9 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said: Is Baker going to be allowed to play by Villa (if fit)? Yes, we have him for the season so won't return to Villa at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jordan Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I bemoan the fact that PL clubs can gladly pick out the best talents from other clubs' academies and sign them for crumbs, but can't really blame them for going anymore, when you consider Morrell turned down Liverpool to stay at City and hasn't been given a look-in since a JPT game two years ago, when he was 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Selred said: The issue is we don't have the players to replace them. Agard isn't fit still, Reid can come in for Smith but then no midfield cover, and we only have 2 fit CB's in Flint and Ayling, let alone 3 to play our usual formation. Yes, we have him for the season so won't return to Villa at all. I think the only way they can recall him early is if they are selling him to someone else so they may not want him cup tied just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just now, Red Right Hand said: I think the only way they can recall him early is if they are selling him to someone else so they may not want him cup tied just in case. I don't believe they can recall him as I think we have paid a significant fee to have him all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Selred said: The issue is we don't have the players to replace them. Agard isn't fit still, Reid can come in for Smith but then no midfield cover, and we only have 2 fit CB's in Flint and Ayling, let alone 3 to play our usual formation. Yes, we have him for the season so won't return to Villa at all. We have players in the under 21's play them. Result really isn't important on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 The cup tied rules really do need revising IMO. It`s ridiculous that a) loan players aren`t normally allowed to play for their clubs and b) Why should a player be punished because he played for say, Accrington in round 1, subsequently signs for a prem/champ side who get to the cup final and he can`t play. The rules were created when the cup was all important and were to prevent clubs buying players when they got to say, the quarters to get them to the final. At least the cup tie rules shouldn`t apply at round 3 and beyond if someone`s only played in rounds 1/2 or qualifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I can't quiet understand the argument from certain fans that SC is the right man to take this club forward. The Club is not just about the first team...it's a whole, and part of that is developing the youth and allowing them experiences when the opportunities arise. How anyone thinks overlooking the Development teams and not filling the bench, or filling it with injured players that can't play, is right, is beyond me. There is no argument to defend such actions. When you start to get dissatisfaction amongst players and coach's throughout the club it starts to fester. An Academy coach once said to me, 'have you noticed how many managers ignore the development teams?' It's down to the manager knowing that the life cycle of a manager is often 2-3 years....they have no interest in the future of the Club, just the short term future of their probable contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 maybe cotts is dead old fashioned,remember when we were only allowed a no12? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 @spudski I can totally see where you're coming from and I tend to agree, but.... ....it's not us making the decisions that will affect your job / career. That of course doesn't mean we can't have an opinion. We both do I know I'm probably not referring to you here, but it is relatively easy to take City's squad and pick what you think is the right formation, the right eleven and subs. The harder bits are telling the players that are on the bench, why they're not starting, the players that didn't make the bench, why they didn't make the bench etc. Okay, that second bit isn't too much of an issue for us! You then have to keep everyone motivated, because someone might pick up a knock on Friday or pre-match. And it's not a one-off team selection, where you just repeat the process pre-match. it might be about resting a player here and there, so Agard plays up front v Derby probably knowing in the back of his mind that it's gonna be back on the bench the following game. We don't have to have those conversations and daily interactions....and I know Cotts gets paid nicely for doing it, but it also means that not everything is as plain to see from the outside. I used to captain my cricket club, and that meant picking the team, tactics (who to bowl, where to field etc) etc. Sometimes you keep faith with a first teaser over a young or inexperienced second teamer, because your gut feel or past experience is that even at out of form first teamer might serve you better. Sometimes you get it wrong. Sometimes you let your vice captain (or Pembo in this case) have a greater say, but knowing the buck stops with you. Personally I'd play Wes with Kodjia on Saturday, fully intending Wilbs to start with Kodjia v PNE. But I'd probably be saying to Wes - go on son, show me you're a starter for PNE too. Now that might just heap pressure on Wes - no idea re his character. It might spur him on. So, let's keep having our opinions and views, but don't be surprised if they don't match what's happening inside of Bristol City FC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 6 subs today then Anyway COYR!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 On 7 January 2016 at 21:21, billywedlock said: I recall Palace a few years ago when they were in dire trouble, they had a number of youth players on the bench. Oh and a certain BCFC back in the day. I agree with others, what harm is there in putting a couple on the bench ? If they are that far off a first team game then they hardly warrant a place at the club anyway. As most managers I have ever spoken to tell me, it is not the ability on the training ground but how a player reacts in front of fans that counts, I am sure for every disappointing player there are some that also surprise. I think a good example of that, one we had with us, was Bolasie for example. I liked him, but did I think he would be tearing up the Prem ?No not really. So maybe there is one or two that deserve a place, and without the fear of the current first team, might just surprise us yet. As for Bobby and wes, if they cannot get games now, then they should be moved on next season. "As for Bobby and wes, if they cannot get games now, then they should be moved on next season." i wouldnt worry about that , nobody is going to need to move them on !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, djb6162 said: "As for Bobby and wes, if they cannot get games now, then they should be moved on next season." i wouldnt worry about that , nobody is going to need to move them on !!!! Can completely understand if Wes and Bobby left of their own accord...the Clubs loss if it happened imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted January 9, 2016 Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 This thread sums up all that is wrong with Cotterill. Refusing to offer a chance to the young players is illogical and pathetic in our situation. I'd love to know what Wade Elliot makes of it. Or the alternative is: our young players are all rubbish with little futures in the game, which would reflect very poorly on the ability of BCFC to coach and nurture youth players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2016 Totally agree with this. Obvious from what was said on here earlier in the week that Williams isn't really fit, with Garita unavailable today what harm could it really do to see either Joe Morrell or Zak Vyner on the bench today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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