If we cannot compete in the Championship...

[Jack Dawe]

41 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

It could be worse. It's reported that Aston Villa are going to loan N'Zogbia to AEK Athens. He cost £9.5m, has earned approx £15m, but has only started 63 games. That's nearly £390k per game! I know that they are a Premiership team but we definitely can't compete with that. 

So let's not do what Villa have done. We're not in that ball-park.

Let's do what Burnley have done before, Brentford are doing now, and bloody Burton will probably do next year!

We don't even need to "punch above our weight" all that much in this league. Not to stay in it. We are 17th best supported out of 24 this season with a reduced capacity, Bolton and Charlton just above us (thanks to larger and fuller away ends, no doubt). If we had "speculated" a little this season, we might well have "accumulated" next season, with even greater support. 

We don't have exec boxes and as much corporate/off-field income as other clubs (but will catch up fast in a few months), but neither do we have a transfer embargo* or a £178m debt!

 

*there's a gag in there, somewhere

 

[Tauntonian]

Im sure those clubs will do better than us. nobody at our club has an ounce of common sense. how can we go from offering 9mill for a player in the summer to now not being able to pay bennetts wages alsong with everyone else we target that isnt shite? Also our chairman is a very very rich man so why are we struggling so badly with finance?  Also the tactics Cotterill uses are clearly not the type we need to keep us in this division and obviously haven't been working, yet instead of changing the manager now and backing the new manager with money we will keep going untill the transfer window ends and probs sack him in february when were stranded in the bottom 3. the club has been like it for years and until someone high up is employed that actually has an ounce of common sense then we will forever be a lowly league 1 team.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

4 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

...on 15,000 crowds, what chance would these three have:

Burton Albion, average crowd 2014/15 - 3,237

Gillingham, average crowd 2014/15 - 5,964

Walsall, average crowd 2014/15 - 4,392

Not sure what their crowds are this season, but I doubt they are double their figures for last season.

What chance have they got? Are they simply competing for the right to be relegated next season? And just how are they riding high in L1 on such limited resources??

They'll probably be OK as long as they don't play 352 every week, and make a sub before the 88th minute if things aren't going to plan.

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, Sir Colby-Tit said:

They'll probably be OK as long as they don't play 352 every week, and make a sub before the 88th minute if things aren't going to plan.

I get the joke, but as I see it, we are not a decent to great L1/Championship poor to average up & down club because Cotts plays 352, or because Marlon Pack can't pick out Kodj's runs, or because (pick any manager/tactic/player you want).

I think we struggle with this level before a ball is kicked, before Marlon has pulled his shorts on, before the next "useless" manager is demonstrably "out of his depths"

We are too reliant on the manager or head coach pulling rabbits out of hats and performing wonders despite the way the club is run and organised, rather than showing what he can do because of the structure and foundations here, whoever the manager is.

That's my guess. I don't know, it's not a fact. I can see that Cotts has not played a blinder. But the responsibility (as opposed to the blame) for the continued underachievement here surely lies above Cotts' head, or any employee of the board of directors?

Cotts wasn't here in 2011/12/13. 

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, Rule The Waves said:

I don't disagree with your sentiment, but as a starting point there is the hospitality boxes. I'm not sure how many there are but the cheapest starts @ £25k for 12, and I am told they have all been snapped up for next season.

It's certainly a help and I'm all for it. My query though is that surely a few boxes and extra covers in the restaurants aren't going to have such an impact that it significantly increases our wage budget to be able to compete with teams that are receiving massive PL parachute payments, on top of probably already having sold out hospitality. 

I don't know what the answer is (other than spending beyond the rules) and I don't think anybody else within the club has the answers either!

We can't just remain too big for L1 but not big enough for the Championship. Without serious transfer & wage increases though, how can anyone change that cycle..? 

[Chairman Mao]

next season I would assume (should be still be in this league which I doubt) we will have more firepower. Boxes have been sold, and extra 4,000 attendence or there abouts on average, maybe more and the facilities of the west stand will ensure that takes place.

Lets say teh additional 4,000 are at £35 a pop, because a lot of that number will be in the west stand where corporate deals in addition to the box will be sold, thats around 3.2 million extra revenue over the season. Add to that the boxes and we should be looking at 4 million extra matchday revenue alone. Decent money that should be added to with non match events

[CyderInACan]

This thread should about how will we compete in the championship in 5 years (assuming we go down and it takes us that long to come back up) 

The financial landscape will be markedly different yet again; parachute payments, tv money etc etc will meant the gulf is even bigger than it (allegedly) is now. If we do go down I very much doubt we'll ever establish ourselves at a higher level. The money from the stadium build is all well and good but it doesn't ALL come to us does it. Presumably only a pro-rata amount between us and the rugby based on attendances? Either way, if SL thinks we can't compete now, wait til 2021 sunshine. 

[Im_over_ere]

2 hours ago, Woodsy said:

Look at Burnley and Blackpool too. They found a way to get there, although I can imagine we'd end up more like Blackpool if it happened to us!

Burnley, I get the feeling, are doing a West Brom, they yo-yoed for a year or two, didn't panic, invested the money wisely and eventually were good enough to stay up. Once you do that then you are in the land of massive cash - set the club up for decades if you do it correctly

Meanwhile, we have just about enough players to see us into the FA Cup 3rd round game this weekend

Maybe this is the approach the Board are taking, although its between L1 and the Championship for CIty. Maybe they are already resigned to going back to L1 but want to consolidate and keep the best young players as a team so that (if) they bounce straight back up they will be more experienced and prepared for the Championship.

[Jack Dawe]

"How can anyone change this cycle?"

We keep asking but we're thin on answers. I'm not after slaughtering the board or SL, not interested in that! It doesn't help us. I'd like to know how many other clubs, in all 3 divisions below the Prem, do better than bigger clubs with bigger resources.

There are clubs that do this. It can be done.

There are people on here with greater know-how than me, inside info, contacts within the game. I'd love to hear something about how it can be done. Some constructive criticism even.

The corporate boxes etc and 7 day a week use of the stadium will bring us up to the level of more of the Championship. One thing to remember about relegated clubs with parachute payments, almost invariably one of the three is in a mess (QPR, Fulham, Wigan, Wolves) and struggle. Some clubs with greater resources get it horribly wrong, too

['Orns]

16 minutes ago, Im_over_ere said:

Maybe this is the approach the Board are taking, although its between L1 and the Championship for CIty. Maybe they are already resigned to going back to L1 but want to consolidate and keep the best young players as a team so that (if) they bounce straight back up they will be more experienced and prepared for the Championship.

But the financial rewards from going between Championship & L1 just aren't there

With a new stadium half built I cannot, refuse to, believe that anyone at AG should be 'resigned' to relegation. That's our job!

[BCFC_Dan]

Burton, Walsall, Gillingham etc. would survive maybe a season or two at Championship level before falling back down. They wouldn't sustain it for long.

Bournemouth gambled massively on promotion and it's paid off for them. They were running at 200% wages to turnover last season and may be hit by FFP sanctions. If they hadn't gone up they'd have been hit hard.

Brentford seem like City were in 2008. They had a good first season and nearly won promotion using a squad of experienced pros. How it goes from here depends on the decisions they take. They've got a new stadium in the works so they might be able to hold on and make the step up if they're clever but it's equally likely they'll do a little worse each season like we did before eventually going down.

Burnley spent a long time fighting at the bottom of the Championship before they were able to build a promotion-winning side in 2008.

Parachute payments and Premiership TV money have turned the Championship into a polarized death-trap of a league. Clubs who've been in the Premiership have the kind of money that some smaller clubs haven't had in the whole of their history put together. It's virtually impossible for a lower league club to come up and compete financially right away.

By building a stadium with facilities that can be used every day, City will improve their income. By staying up this season they will become a more attractive proposition. Slowly they will climb the table and one day they'll get it right and win promotion.

The tricky bit is going to be staying up this year.

[The Chaplain]

15 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Burton, Walsall, Gillingham etc. would survive maybe a season or two at Championship level before falling back down. They wouldn't sustain it for long.

Bournemouth gambled massively on promotion and it's paid off for them. They were running at 200% wages to turnover last season and may be hit by FFP sanctions. If they hadn't gone up they'd have been hit hard.

Brentford seem like City were in 2008. They had a good first season and nearly won promotion using a squad of experienced pros. How it goes from here depends on the decisions they take. They've got a new stadium in the works so they might be able to hold on and make the step up if they're clever but it's equally likely they'll do a little worse each season like we did before eventually going down.

Burnley spent a long time fighting at the bottom of the Championship before they were able to build a promotion-winning side in 2008.

Parachute payments and Premiership TV money have turned the Championship into a polarized death-trap of a league. Clubs who've been in the Premiership have the kind of money that some smaller clubs haven't had in the whole of their history put together. It's virtually impossible for a lower league club to come up and compete financially right away.

By building a stadium with facilities that can be used every day, City will improve their income. By staying up this season they will become a more attractive proposition. Slowly they will climb the table and one day they'll get it right and win promotion.

The tricky bit is going to be staying up this year.

This sounds dangerously like mild-mannered common sense, am I in the right place?

[beaverface]

5 hours ago, jackofromrugby said:

Interesting point.  If any of them do go up just watch them storm through the Championship and just blow it at the play-off stage!

I expect they'll get promotion from League one by being a tight, close knit, well organised unit that by and large could give anybody a game on their day. A bit like City under Gary Johnson.

The City of today are very much like Peterborough of old and we're very cavalier and gun-ho leaving ourselves badly exposed when the full backs go bombing forward.

I'm not saying the 5-3-2 formation can't work, it's just that we don't have good enough players at Championship level.

The alarm bells were ringing in League one where a simple ball into the left/right back channel exposed us, but the opposition weren't quite good enough to take advantage whereas this year the players are that much better.

[ChippenhamRed]

If we can't compete in the Championship, then there are at least 5 or 6 other clubs in the Championship that can't compete in the Championship, and since only 3 clubs get relegated from the Championship, we can compete in the Championship.

[Guest]

Meanwhile at the top;

Chelseas wage bill last f year = £215.6 million

Man u                                     = £203mil

Man C                                    = £193MIL

Arsen                                     = £192mil

although figures don't show breakdown between staff/players, seems like we may have to pay with the big boys if we want to play with the big boys, one year in the future.

[Calculus]

17 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

If we can't compete in the Championship, then there are at least 5 or 6 other clubs in the Championship that can't compete in the Championship, and since only 3 clubs get relegated from the Championship, we can compete in the Championship.

Only if 'can compete in the Championship' means only just avoiding relegation every year. 

[Ivorguy]

What continues to nag at me is can we compete in League 1 next year or will the downward spiral continue and next year too will see us in another relegation fight still with too few players, still with current formation and poor use of substitutes, plus poorer players, but still same manager, director of football, owner and (if he actually exists) the chairman?

Now is the time to act even though we are well past the eleventh hour.

I really am worried about both the seeming poor management of the club and a total failure to respect us fans and at least attempt to present us with a clear update of where we are and what current policy is.

Are we fans so despised that the club think they can do whatever they want and like sheep we will accept it all.  Any organisation worth its salt with a large and committed public base, would seek to utilise this hidden expertise.  Many on otib have skills they would gladly offer pro bono if asked.  I would certainly be prepared to offer any skills I have in regards management and utilising the fan base, whilst others have skills more related to the football side of things - ex pros, coaches, sports psychologists etc.  Just think if they were to begin by asking us to do a joint consultancy report on how to better run all aspects of the club.  We could be breaking new and exciting ground in the tortured area of club/fan relations and the club would truly be a community club with a huge Bristolian input.

Come on City raise your game and join the 21st century, our club can't continue to be run in what appears to be such an amateur way.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Calculus said:

Only if 'can compete in the Championship' means only just avoiding relegation every year. 

Agreed, but for us this year that would be satisfactory - with a bigger stadium to come next year, with all its ability to generate extra revenue and, maybe, help us attract better players. Plus there will likely be three clubs coming up with more of a financial struggle to compete than us. I still believe that if we survive this year, we have an opportunity to establish ourselves more firmly than we ever have previously. The infrastructure will be there. Then we can gradually set our sights higher than mere survival.

[Calculus]

12 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Agreed, but for us this year that would be satisfactory - with a bigger stadium to come next year, with all its ability to generate extra revenue and, maybe, help us attract better players. Plus there will likely be three clubs coming up with more of a financial struggle to compete than us. I still believe that if we survive this year, we have an opportunity to establish ourselves more firmly than we ever have previously. The infrastructure will be there. Then we can gradually set our sights higher than mere survival.

Totally agree with that, just not sure about the long term bit. There are lots of questions about how a larger stadium might benefit us. For example: how much of the extra income will come to the football cub, or will it be Bristol Sport income? will the rugby club pay rent to us or the stadium? will we get income from food and drink sold at a rugby game? will we pay rent to Bristol Sport? how much of the extra income will go to making the rugby club a force in the premiership (should they ever get through the play offs)?

Can't say I know the answers to any of these questions, save to say that the situation could be made complicate enough to make FFP virtually unenforceable,,,,