Luke Freeman

[reddoc]

3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Would only get in the team at LM with Williams coming out. But I think we can all agree that Reid makes a big difference. 

Think I'll have to pass on that one. Not sure I've ever seen anyone get caught in possession/give the ball away that many times in one match.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, reddoc said:

Think I'll have to pass on that one. Not sure I've ever seen anyone get caught in possession/give the ball away that many times in one match.

I have and his name is Luke Freeman. Bobby gets knocked off the ball more than Freeman but Bobby also plays quicker passes. Luke loses possession trying to beat 3 or 4 defenders. They both have their strengths and flaws but as far as being creative as the creative midfielder, Bobby does it better. Luke is better at the defensive side and receiving the ball in our half and being stronger not giving it away as easily. They both have their uses. 

[BRISTOL86]

4 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

I thought Reid did alright today but he certainly didn't make a big difference. He was very poor first half but stepped it up second

Agreed, thought he was completely out of his depth first half and for me showed why he has been nowhere near a starting regular. Poor touches, poor decisions with his passing and lightweight. 

Second half looked better but still far from convinced. Think the 'academy product' label does him a lot of favours with the fans that wouldn't be afforded to a player we brought in externally. 

[Taylor10]

7 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed, thought he was completely out of his depth first half and for me showed why he has been nowhere near a starting regular. Poor touches, poor decisions with his passing and lightweight. 

Second half looked better but still far from convinced. Think the 'academy product' label does him a lot of favours with the fans that wouldn't be afforded to a player we brought in externally. 

Agree. 

There is a big difference between 15minute cameos & starting games. I've said previously in the thread I hope he proves me wrong but I don't see him being good enough at this level. How anyone can say Reid makes a "big difference" after today is clearly blinded by his academy label. A better second half from him but he was our weak link yesterday.

[Always Believesham]

10 hours ago, redfieldred said:

 Useful squad member

If we couldn't keep Greg Cunningham as a useful squad member, I'm quite sure Freeman would soon look to go elsewhere  should we stop playing him without rotation into the team.

Hopefully Pembo/Elliott or the new guy give freeman a chance in the same way Pack's likely to get a run in a more comfortable position. I would guess he prefers the left flank but the defensive duties must be done before any flair or fancy football - he doesn't score many, we don't score many, we are only going to get out of this if we stop teams scoring, we're no 'you score 4, we'll score 5' team.

i'll reserve judgement, as a CM at this level we'd need a lot more than what LF has offered this season. I'm quite sure he's got the ability to play anywhere from 5 advanced positions, would wait till the Leeds/Birmingham game to see who needs a rest though before throwing him back in to give him the best chance of being fit

[Aaron-Bcfc]

7 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Agreed, thought he was completely out of his depth first half and for me showed why he has been nowhere near a starting regular. Poor touches, poor decisions with his passing and lightweight. 

Second half looked better but still far from convinced. Think the 'academy product' label does him a lot of favours with the fans that wouldn't be afforded to a player we brought in externally. 

Disagree, Freeman has had all but 2 very poor games in this league, has often played far far worse than Bobby did today and is still being hailed as a quality player by many of our fans.

[BobBobSuperBob]

28 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Disagree, Freeman has had all but 2 very poor games in this league, has often played far far worse than Bobby did today and is still being hailed as a quality player by many of our fans.

That's because he is Aaron

I promise you

Hes had a tough season playing in a high focus role and is trying to play a relatively new role against far better players

Hes a talented footballer and all players find a level they struggle to overcome but I would predict Luke Freeman will earn his living in the Championship, (If not higher if he continues to learn)

I seriously fear that Luke Freeman will be a player that supporters who didn't rate him will be wondering why we sold him when he's ripping it up for another Championship Club

Of course I could be completely wrong but totally convinced he's a Championship Player and he can adapt his game to this level

Keep the Faith - he's still young and the sort of player ,(And we havnt had many at AG over the years) that if you stick with him can take you to greater heights  

Keep backing him and he will deliver

[BobBobSuperBob]

Also worth noting what Wes said about George Friend the Boro left back yesterday (via DJB) - that he was a beast , and rock hard

 

Its not been mentioned on this forum I don't think - but don't underestimate the jump in athleticism in Championship compared to L1 - I don't believe it's any coincidence that two of our slighter players JB and LF have had struggles at times - players need varying amounts of time to cope with the athleticism at this level as well as the technical levels

Some may never cope but I stick with what I believe that LF is a talented player who will adapt

[reddoc]

8 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I have and his name is Luke Freeman. Bobby gets knocked off the ball more than Freeman but Bobby also plays quicker passes. Luke loses possession trying to beat 3 or 4 defenders. They both have their strengths and flaws but as far as being creative as the creative midfielder, Bobby does it better. Luke is better at the defensive side and receiving the ball in our half and being stronger not giving it away as easily. They both have their uses. 

It's true but a lot of Reids quick passes tend to be little dinks/flicks in our own half, which is a high risk strategy. Sort of pass that should be played on the edge of the opponents box. Also shys out of the 50/50s, understandable as he;s so slight, but not sure you can afford that in a central mid.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

That's because he is Aaron

I promise you

Hes had a tough season playing in a high focus role and is trying to play a relatively new role against far better players

Hes a talented footballer and all players find a level they struggle to overcome but I would predict Luke Freeman will earn his living in the Championship, (If not higher if he continues to learn)

I seriously fear that Luke Freeman will be a player that supporters who didn't rate him will be wondering why we sold him when he's ripping it up for another Championship Club

Of course I could be completely wrong but totally convinced he's a Championship Player and he can adapt his game to this level

Keep the Faith - he's still young and the sort of player ,(And we havnt had many at AG over the years) that if you stick with him can take you to greater heights  

Keep backing him and he will deliver

I hope so mate. He was one I was very confident would make the step up but he's been so disappointing. My post wasn't really meant to slate Freeman though, just to prove that he still gets supported by many without the "academy product" tag line that Bobby has.

Although I have given Freeman stick on here this season I will always fully back him at games and happily belt out Freemans on fire whenever it's sung, although that is limited to away games for me as you won't ever find the Dolman singing that!

[I am the mole]

12 hours ago, Taylor10 said:

I thought Reid did alright today but he certainly didn't make a big difference. He was very poor first half but stepped it up second

He's one of our creative players he will lose the ball 3 times out of ten but will create more than most I'd rather the creative players give the ball away every now and then than never give the ball away by always playing the safe sideways 

[samo II]

Am I right in thinking Reid has only started three league games this season (M'Boro x2, Burnley)?

Being we won two of them (so that's 40% of our total wins), and the other we narrowly lost 2-1 while in the corresponding fixture we were ruined 4-0, I think he's doing okay for someone who can't be anywhere near match sharp, as he usually gets about 10-15 max.

No one is saying Reid is the next Messi, but when he's just played a part in defeating the league leaders for the second time this season, I think it is fair to say he's done okay.

And BTW: People go on about academy kids getting extra slack, but I've seen little evidence of that - more often than not they get as much if not more stick.  Yet we started with three yesterday and beat a team who'll be in the Premier League next season, and I think that is a good thing.

[LondonBristolian]

I certainly don't want to write Freeman off but I do hope we can get to a point where nobody automatically gets back into the team after injury, especially after a winning performance.  I certainly think Freeman is a better player than Reid but Reid put in a decent performance in a winning team and the shirt should now be his to lose.

[reddoc]

16 minutes ago, samo II said:

Am I right in thinking Reid has only started three league games this season (M'Boro x2, Burnley)?

Being we won two of them (so that's 40% of our total wins), and the other we narrowly lost 2-1 while in the corresponding fixture we were ruined 4-0, I think he's doing okay for someone who can't be anywhere near match sharp, as he usually gets about 10-15 max.

No one is saying Reid is the next Messi, but when he's just played a part in defeating the league leaders for the second time this season, I think it is fair to say he's done okay.

And BTW: People go on about academy kids getting extra slack, but I've seen little evidence of that - more often than not they get as much if not more stick.  Yet we started with three yesterday and beat a team who'll be in the Premier League next season, and I think that is a good thing.

Numerically narrow maybe, but not in terms of the balance of play. We were never in it.

[BRISTOL86]

1 hour ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

Disagree, Freeman has had all but 2 very poor games in this league, has often played far far worse than Bobby did today and is still being hailed as a quality player by many of our fans.

My comment was purely about what I saw from Bobby yesterday, I wasn't comparing him to Freeman per se. 

Not saying Bobby doesn't have his moments of quality, and I wholeheartedly agree that Freeman has been very underwhelming this season.

I just think Bobby didn't have a good game yesterday, first half especially, and that the 'one of our own' tag clouds people's judgement.

[adamski]

The problem with Freeman is that he slows play up as he has to try and beat several players and hold the ball more often than not. He also does not have great vision for a pass at this level, too often he seems stunned and can't see where the ball needs to go (slow thought processing?) which is a bit of a problem for a midfield player. I think, given our present situation and change in formation, we can probably get on without him, possibly bringing him on as an impact sub when required, or sell him for £4m (some hope!)

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, adamski said:

The problem with Freeman is that he slows play up as he has to try and beat several players and hold the ball more often than not. He also does not have great vision for a pass at this level, too often he seems stunned and can't see where the ball needs to go (slow thought processing?) which is a bit of a problem for a midfield player. I think, given our present situation and change in formation, we can probably get on without him, possibly bringing him on as an impact sub when required, or sell him for £4m (some hope!)

I think we maybe need to be patient with Freeman.  He's 23 and it's his first season at this level.  He's not really found his gear yet but I reckon he's still got a great future at this level.  Just a lot to learn in the present....

[samo II]

8 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Numerically narrow maybe, but not in terms of the balance of play. We were never in it.

Maybe, but we were less so than in the corresponding fixture, that also damaged us worse in a pure numbers sense by us bleeding more goal difference (which is important in our current situation), which was my point.

[Shtanley]

I'm not saying Bobby Reid is definitely good enough for this level. Yesterday his first half was poor but second half he did the simple things better than anyone else does. Personally I feel he's the best person to have in front of pack and smith. They all link up much more than when Freeman is playing. His second half was much better. He has to surely be the better option than Freeman at this moment. He's the only player we have who constantly looks for the through ball. 

[samo II]

1 minute ago, Shtanley said:

I'm not saying Bobby Reid is definitely good enough for this level. Yesterday his first half was poor but second half he did the simple things better than anyone else does. Personally I feel he's the best person to have in front of pack and smith. They all link up much more than when Freeman is playing. His second half was much better. He has to surely be the better option than Freeman at this moment. He's the only player we have who constantly looks for the through ball. 

The thing is; the system we were playing, there was only ever space to play either Reid or Freeman - in other system, you can play both.

If we played the 4231 from yesterday again, Reid could retain his role or move to the right of the attacking 3 with Freeman in the centre, or indeed Freeman could end up on the left, with Reid in the middle.

With wing backs, your limited as to who can play out wide or centrally, due to the need for that stable base of 2 holding players - we've more freedom when not bound to it, even with the limited options we have.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

15 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

My comment was purely about what I saw from Bobby yesterday, I wasn't comparing him to Freeman per se. 

Not saying Bobby doesn't have his moments of quality, and I wholeheartedly agree that Freeman has been very underwhelming this season.

I just think Bobby didn't have a good game yesterday, first half especially, and that the 'one of our own' tag clouds people's judgement.

Yeah, your point is definitely a valid one mate.

I know you weren't comparing him to Freeman, I was just using him as an example as I disagreed on the comment that an externally bought player wouldn't be given the same support.

[Taylor10]

1 hour ago, I am the mole said:

He's one of our creative players he will lose the ball 3 times out of ten but will create more than most I'd rather the creative players give the ball away every now and then than never give the ball away by always playing the safe sideways 

To be fair he lost the ball more often than not in areas where you shouldn't lose it, nothing to do with creativity in those instances I'm afraid. I take your point but if he was losing the ball in areas in the final third trying to be creative I would understand more. Yesterday he struggled.

[bearded_red]

I've been someone that has been saying pretty much all season that Reid should be in the team, but I won't pretend he was brilliant yesterday (unlike up at Boro where he was superb). He did give the ball away too often in the wrong areas, although he was better after halftime.

I do however maintain he deserves a run in the team. I doubt anybody is suggesting he's the messiah or he doesn't have areas of his game that need to be improved, but for me he has done more than enough in his few chances this season to merit a real opportunity in the team rather than a game here and there.

To be brutally honest I think Freeman in the main has been utterly pointless all season, but I can understand why Cotterill wanted to stick by him and show him some loyalty, but now maybe Bobby deserves to have shown confidence shown in him and the knowledge that he won't be instantly dropped back out as soon as there is someone else available.

I don't know for fact obviously, but I'm pretty confident that if you asked Kodjia who he'd rather have playing behind him he'd make it bloody well clear that it would be the bristolian rather than Freeman who he doesn't seem to have struck any sort of partnership with.

[Cider red]

For me the CAM position is now reids to lose. I'd like freeman to compete with Bryan for the lw position if we persist with 4 3 3/ 451

[screech]

Bobby played ok yesterday, that's not surprising considering he's had scraps to feed off. If he gets some game time he'll improve, he's not as rounded as Freeman but then again, LF has been given time to play.

I like both players, Bobby has a quicker brain and can see the pass, I hope he gets another run out Tuesday.

[Chairman Mao]

I much prefer Reid than Freeman in the CAM role, much better looking forward and picking the pass, I think he's a great player myself, good touch, good on the ball, and given time (lets face it 10/15 mins here and there isn't fair) he will grow. No doubt as the game developed he grew, really pleased for him and wes

[Leveller]

Freeman has struggled this season, but Reid doesn't have the same potential and was our weak link yesterday.

[Roger Red Hat]

2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Freeman has struggled this season, but Reid doesn't have the same potential and was our weak link yesterday.

Can't agree with that.

[Shtanley]

18 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Freeman has struggled this season, but Reid doesn't have the same potential and was our weak link yesterday.

Reid is 5 months younger and so far this season has been better than Freeman, Freeman has never scored at Ashton Gate. Reid right now should not lose his place unless we sign someone even better.

[City1984]

They need playing time to build understanding,  partnership and peak mental and physical condition.  

 

Yes they will have poor games or make mistakes but all three of our acadamy lads and luke freeman deserve a fair crack of the whip and if they get it I believe can all become valuable parts of our club.