Does anybody still not blame the board. ?

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You will have to link me to that thread and i'll get back to you.

 

I'll dig it up - it's only my (with reasons piecing this together from all sorts of posts, bits I heard and that in public domain) opinion / theory but I might chuck it in this thread as like most it lies at the heart of the mess we are now in

 

[Northern Red]

Both are to blame.

However Cotterill's faults have only been evident in the past few months. The board's go back years.

[shelts]

Whilst the owner indicated he was fully expecting a new list of targets to be presented to him of slightly lower calibre (i.e. more attainable), he also kept reiterating that he has never yet said "no" to going after a target due to the price or the wages. 

Our majority shareholder talking on Twentyman. Why would he lie about the above statement as he has more money than sense to invest into a club like City. 

I am chill

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, shelts said:

Whilst the owner indicated he was fully expecting a new list of targets to be presented to him of slightly lower calibre (i.e. more attainable), he also kept reiterating that he has never yet said "no" to going after a target due to the price or the wages. 

Our majority shareholder talking on Twentyman. Why would he lie about the above statement as he has more money than sense to invest into a club like City. 

I am chill

He also said AG wasn't viable.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Here we go @Esmond Million's Bung

This is what I posted on a thread discussing similar issues

Ive carefully read , listened and watched and this is my take on the summer - I personally believe it's close to the mark but is a collective effort (not deliberately !) by a number of sources and posters - I think no one had the full accurate picture (and we prob never will ) but quite a few had important / vital pieces of the jigsaw that were largely correct  )

You or others are free to say b******* or that's **** - I'm all for debating and seeing if we can fathom it out

-------

 

I make it clear that I have no more direct knowledge of what happened in the summer but have, like everyone else been intrigued to know as it was clearly a significant few weeks in this clubs recent history

bearing in mind I wasn't SCs biggest fan personality wise and not an obvious supporter of his I do personally believe that due to a 'misunderstanding' (think NickJs references) over transfer deals or contracts early in the summer there may have been a major fall out within certain key positions at the club and it may be that as a result of the misunderstanding some obvious and immediate decisions had to be made and the halt/brake may have been put on transfer dealings ( Think Tetburys post )  at that time.

Both this things , from two people / posters I don't know , with it would appear different sources knit in largely with something that I heard , albeit from a slightly different perspective / account

It may be that once the misunderstanding had been sorted out things had moved on in the market and well Everyone can  judge the subsequent events in that window and since for themselves

Ive outlined my humble personal opinion on SCs actions from that point above (most of which I derive from his public actions and interviews)

I also believe (my opinion) hat SC may have been allowed more time in post due to he decisions that had to be made initially on the back of any possible misunderstanding ((I have no evidence on this but it would be an obvious human reaction consequence if I've got the jigsaw right)

I know this is still slightly cryptic - but a I personally believe a lot of answers and pieces of the 'jigsaw 'have been posted on this forum albeit by a number of different posters

I have also been told something regarding the nature of the ' misunderstanding' that would make sense and fit the jigsaw but which I have no hard or direct evidence of and will never repeat on here for obvious reasons- I hope you can interpret that and understand

I should point out before anyone gets carried away with any theories that as far as I can see no one at the Club  has done anything 'wrong' (in the summer) as such and as Nick has , I believe accurately used the word 'misunderstanding'

 

This explanation may seem cryptic but has been written within obvious boundaries without direct evidence. The crux of it all is the nature of the 'misunderstanding' if indeed there was one as it appears this may have been why the brake was put on transfers ,if they were , NOT in an attempt to reduce the deals / wages as I see it

id love to tell you the nature of the misunderstanding as I was told , as it would make more sense - but I can't an won't (hope you understand) as I have no way of confirming it to be true and if true it wouldn't be right to throw on a public forum

[Scrumpylegs]

This whole thread sums up what p***ses me off about modern life and modern football in particular. There always has to be someone (else) to blame!! 

S**t happens. Get over it and get behind the club. 

[shelts]

14 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

He also said AG wasn't viable.

Fair point. Maybe cost him more to tart up AG. What a joke that was trying to find a suitable site. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Here we go @Esmond Million's Bung

This is what I posted on a thread discussing similar issues

Ive carefully read , listened and watched and this is my take on the summer - I personally believe it's close to the mark but is a collective effort (not deliberately !) by a number of sources and posters - I think no one had the full accurate picture (and we prob never will ) but quite a few had important / vital pieces of the jigsaw that were largely correct  )

You or others are free to say b******* or that's **** - I'm all for debating and seeing if we can fathom it out

-------

 

I make it clear that I have no more direct knowledge of what happened in the summer but have, like everyone else been intrigued to know as it was clearly a significant few weeks in this clubs recent history

bearing in mind I wasn't SCs biggest fan personality wise and not an obvious supporter of his I do personally believe that due to a 'misunderstanding' (think NickJs references) over transfer deals or contracts early in the summer there may have been a major fall out within certain key positions at the club and it may be that as a result of the misunderstanding some obvious and immediate decisions had to be made and the halt/brake may have been put on transfer dealings ( Think Tetburys post )  at that time.

Both this things , from two people / posters I don't know , with it would appear different sources knit in largely with something that I heard , albeit from a slightly different perspective / account

It may be that once the misunderstanding had been sorted out things had moved on in the market and well Everyone can  judge the subsequent events in that window and since for themselves

Ive outlined my humble personal opinion on SCs actions from that point above (most of which I derive from his public actions and interviews)

I also believe (my opinion) hat SC may have been allowed more time in post due to he decisions that had to be made initially on the back of any possible misunderstanding ((I have no evidence on this but it would be an obvious human reaction consequence if I've got the jigsaw right)

I know this is still slightly cryptic - but a I personally believe a lot of answers and pieces of the 'jigsaw 'have been posted on this forum albeit by a number of different posters

I have also been told something regarding the nature of the ' misunderstanding' that would make sense and fit the jigsaw but which I have no hard or direct evidence of and will never repeat on here for obvious reasons- I hope you can interpret that and understand

I should point out before anyone gets carried away with any theories that as far as I can see no one at the Club  has done anything 'wrong' (in the summer) as such and as Nick has , I believe accurately used the word 'misunderstanding'

Sorry I personally believe 'misunderstanding' is almost certainly wrong, it doesn't make sense and Tetbury never alluded to any 'misunderstanding', one thing is for sure Hull would no longer deal with us at all re Maguire and Brentford hiked the price on Gray significantly and Gayle was just utter desperation.

'Misunderstanding' doesn't and will never cut it with me, it was one giant cock up by person or persons unknown and we are paying the price.

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

6 minutes ago, shelts said:

Fair point. Maybe cost him more to tart up AG. What a joke that was trying to find a suitable site. 

AV would have eventually ended up as self financing had all of his plans for the site come to fruition, that is why AG was not viable initially.

 

[Lrrr]

I'm convinced we were going to be relegated under Cotterill (or at least it would have been so close it was too risky to let things stay as they were) So whether the board had someone lined up or not Cotterill needed to go.

[glynriley]

2 minutes ago, hodge said:

I'm convinced we were going to be relegated under Cotterill (or at least it would have been so close it was too risky to let things stay as they were) So whether the board had someone lined up or not Cotterill needed to go.

Not sure I agree there to be honest. Yes, results were poor, but the players had showed no signs of not playing for Cotterill.

It is apparent the board had no coherent plan, and sacked SC almost on a whim. Did the row with a fan hasten his departure??

It's almost inconceivable that we have no idea who we want to replace him. May as well stick as twist if that's the case.

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

22 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry I personally believe 'misunderstanding' is almost certainly wrong, it doesn't make sense and Tetbury never alluded to any 'misunderstanding', one thing is for sure Hull would no longer deal with us at all re Maguire and Brentford hiked the price on Gray significantly and Gayle was just utter desperation.

'Misunderstanding' doesn't and will never cut it with me, it was one giant cock up by person or persons unknown and we are paying the price.

 

 

Fair enough m8 - all opinions

All I'd say is firstly you are taking Tetburys account as %100 accurate (And that's no dig at Tetburys who clearly has some contacts but as all we can only rely on a third party as we arnt directly involved !) - that's you're prerogative 

I'm not sure that you get or have thought about ' misunderstanding ' - it was as I heard it a serious matter potentially until it was found / deemed to be a misunderstanding and would have put a brake on activity.

To finish all Id say that I was told early in season what was alleged to have gone on

For numerous good sensible reasons I kept stum as it didn't make sense in a number of aspects

In amongst snippets of info and the public accounts, interviews of SC and SLs own words Tetburys posted clearly in confident belief - this fell in with what I'd been told with the obvious difference as to why any transfers were halted or interfered with.

(TBF if you take the info from Terbury as%100 nailed on fact then the board are massively to blame for the summers fiasco - or at least the start of it - It is not for me to say whether Tetbury is %100 with this ( Don't know the fella but clearly people trust his ' opinion ') or whether my opinion is accurate - it's a case of looking at all the evidence / info and making your own mind up  )

NickJ was mentioning knowing about the reasons for problems and a misunderstanding which I found particularly interesting and for me personally, the jigsaw pieces together

You also need to consider why did SL appear to go on speaking to press and moaning about small squad etc - it surprised me and were indications for me that the board felt that they 'owed' SC some latitude because of whatever had gone on

I had to be open minded about the original account I was given and read Tetburys and NickJs posts with interest , prepared to change my mind - and that allowed me without any agenda to see thro the fog a bit - try if you can (or can be arsed to !!  ) with a open mind not latching fully on any one piece of information - it's an interesting journey

 

[Lrrr]

17 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Not sure I agree there to be honest. Yes, results were poor, but the players had showed no signs of not playing for Cotterill.

It is apparent the board had no coherent plan, and sacked SC almost on a whim. Did the row with a fan hasten his departure??

It's almost inconceivable that we have no idea who we want to replace him. May as well stick as twist if that's the case.

 

Whether the players were still playing for him or not its still the same, the tactics employed etc were what was causing the problems.

[BCFC Jordan]

It is completely the board's fault.

 

If ever there was a guide on 'how to get relegated' made into a book, you'd just have to copy and paste our season report.

 

Sacking Cotterill halfway through January was the final nail in the coffin. Completely disillusioned with this club and the board should be ashamed.

[glynriley]

3 minutes ago, hodge said:

Whether the players were still playing for him or not its still the same, the tactics employed etc were what was causing the problems.

True, but Cotts belief in the system has been evident all season. Why did the board see fit to sack him half way through the window? Why not after Fulham at home, Rotherham away, Derby?

Cotts had his faults, for sure, but, after doing it once with McInnes, it appears we learn nothing from our mistakes. Don't know shit from pudding most of 'em.

 

[Vincent Vega]

8 minutes ago, glynriley said:

True, but Cotts belief in the system has been evident all season. Why did the board see fit to sack him half way through the window? Why not after Fulham at home, Rotherham away, Derby?

Cotts had his faults, for sure, but, after doing it once with McInnes, it appears we learn nothing from our mistakes. Don't know shit from pudding most of 'em.

 

My thoughts exactly. 

[shelts]

We will never know the inns and outs of what has gone on, who is right or who is wrong. We still have a chance to stay up if we recruit the right manager and players. It's very difficult to not get into a Board v Cotts debate I suppose but it serves no purpose apart from negativity, I should know better. Let's judge when our fate is sealed on way or t other. 

COYR

[NickJ]

Bob Bob - and incidentally my thread earlier was jest through frustration at what has gone on, and whether you think childish or not won't be the last on this issue! -  like you my information was given at the very beginning of the season and I didn't say anything at all because although I was confident what was being said was true I wasn't sure who was being accused of what, if anyone or anything, and what were the implications.

Then came along Tetbury's post which was so detailed you just couldn't make it up - well of course you could but it would be the strangest thing - and together with what I had been told independently, which was actually different information but related to the same thing - summer transfers - and to me it was obvious the two together painted the entire picture.

Then I started looking at the posts from robin4ever, this guy was like a demented nutter trying to get his points across from the summer onwards, always about the same thing, and most people myself included will have dismissed what he said as somebody, like dozens of others on here, with an agenda but no facts or knowledge.

But then read back his posts again - I did - and it is clear he either is SC (very unlikely of course) but if not somebody very very close.

Now, what happened in the summer, was it a misunderstanding, as I have concluded and stated? In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that is the only fair thing to put it down to. For the benefit of the club both key players - SC and SL - should have done this but I blame SL for the failure of this communication because ultimately he not SC has the authority to do this, and it is now obvious looking back SC was biting his tongue and towards the end was frustrated as hell that he was taking flak for something beyond his control - putting aside whether he could have acted any differently thereafter.

Read robin4ever's posts back though, and he is quite unequivocal, there is no misunderstanding, he is quite clear there is blame and where it lies. Not saying I agree with or believe him, as I do not know and after all even if everything he says is factual and truthful he no doubt does not tell the other side of the story, but the truth whatever it is, is pivotal to this sorry mess.

I am just very confident Cotterill has been shafted, unintentionally in the summer but with more deliberation in recent weeks, and as a consequence we are about to embark on the latest unhappy downward spiral of this unfortunate club.

[Frenchay Red]

I'm afraid that it appears to me we are a complete shambles of a club. We were only going one way under SOD, but thankfully decisive action was taken and a new manager came in who was like a breath of fresh air. Cotts revitalised the team, comfortably saved us from relegation and then gave us one of the best seasons ever.

I have no idea why we failed to strengthen, but given the previous pre-season's activity I find it difficult to believe that Cotts didn't seek to similarly improve the squad for the fresh challenge. It's his job, it's quite ridiculous to me that he would not have wanted to bring in some better players. But he didn't, apart from Kodiak. 

Various theories have been suggested, mainly that for whatever reason "done deals" were interfered with and fell through. I guess we will never know.

But it looks like we have not backed him when we should have and as a result made it very difficult for him to do the job.

Personalities seem to have got in the way of progress to the point that a damn good manager has been sacked at a ridiculous time of the season.

Something very odd has happened at this club and it has been dealt with very poorly.

 

[NickJ]

1 minute ago, robin4ever said:

I have said , and still believe that the boward want to do this season on the very cheap , and SC wanted to only bring in quality championship players who would improve the starting 11. He was not backed to this and was only a matter of time until SL got rid to take the hear off him and his merry men . All of course IMO

So, was it all a misunderstanding?

How accurate was Tetbury's post?

You will have seen I am devastated we have lost your son/dad/brother/uncle/best mate whatever. The board stumbled across the best manager this club had in 30 years IMO, how does the song go, 2-0 and you effed it up?

 

[Lrrr]

27 minutes ago, glynriley said:

True, but Cotts belief in the system has been evident all season. Why did the board see fit to sack him half way through the window? Why not after Fulham at home, Rotherham away, Derby?

Cotts had his faults, for sure, but, after doing it once with McInnes, it appears we learn nothing from our mistakes. Don't know shit from pudding most of 'em.

 

There comes a breaking point, the board it seems were trying to give Cotts as much time as they could to have him turn it around but it started to come more and more apparent that we were staying where we were.

[Vincent Vega]

2 minutes ago, hodge said:

There comes a breaking point, the board it seems were trying to give Cotts as much time as they could to have him turn it around but it started to come more and more apparent that we were staying where we were.

Halfway through January. ?

[Andy082005]

43 minutes ago, BCFC Jordan said:

It is completely the board's fault.

 

If ever there was a guide on 'how to get relegated' made into a book, you'd just have to copy and paste our season report.

 

Sacking Cotterill halfway through January was the final nail in the coffin. Completely disillusioned with this club and the board should be ashamed.

Agree with your last paragraph. Totally bizzare to sack him now with no plan B. Should have been sacked back in November and a new manager in place well before the transfer window opened.

Absolute joke 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think it was probably wrong move sacking Cotts on balance. I don't profess to know anymore than most, certainly not ITK but reading between the lines of varied posters, he possibly was hung out to dry a tad, through misfortune rather than anything else but even so...

[BobBobSuperBob]

42 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Bob Bob - and incidentally my thread earlier was jest through frustration at what has gone on, and whether you think childish or not won't be the last on this issue! -  like you my information was given at the very beginning of the season and I didn't say anything at all because although I was confident what was being said was true I wasn't sure who was being accused of what, if anyone or anything, and what were the implications.

Then came along Tetbury's post which was so detailed you just couldn't make it up - well of course you could but it would be the strangest thing - and together with what I had been told independently, which was actually different information but related to the same thing - summer transfers - and to me it was obvious the two together painted the entire picture.

Then I started looking at the posts from robin4ever, this guy was like a demented nutter trying to get his points across from the summer onwards, always about the same thing, and most people myself included will have dismissed what he said as somebody, like dozens of others on here, with an agenda but no facts or knowledge.

But then read back his posts again - I did - and it is clear he either is SC (very unlikely of course) but if not somebody very very close.

Now, what happened in the summer, was it a misunderstanding, as I have concluded and stated? In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that is the only fair thing to put it down to. For the benefit of the club both key players - SC and SL - should have done this but I blame SL for the failure of this communication because ultimately he not SC has the authority to do this, and it is now obvious looking back SC was biting his tongue and towards the end was frustrated as hell that he was taking flak for something beyond his control - putting aside whether he could have acted any differently thereafter.

Read robin4ever's posts back though, and he is quite unequivocal, there is no misunderstanding, he is quite clear there is blame and where it lies. Not saying I agree with or believe him, as I do not know and after all even if everything he says is factual and truthful he no doubt does not tell the other side of the story, but the truth whatever it is, is pivotal to this sorry mess.

I am just very confident Cotterill has been shafted, unintentionally in the summer but with more deliberation in recent weeks, and as a consequence we are about to embark on the latest unhappy downward spiral of this unfortunate club.

Fair enough Nick - think we agree that Cotts it would appear , had cause to be peed off during the summer , but I don't blame SL either if my understanding is correct regarding the nature of the understanding (Unclear whether you agree with that bit) and I think that it is fair to suggest SL could have said 'there's been a bit of a problem' etc but 'we move on etc' as it was always going to come out or at least be subject of speculation , perhaps he didn't think, at the time it would be so relevant as it now looks.

So in simple terms , no blame as far as I can see on SC OR SL at that point 

For me personally the blame since then lies at both doors

SC

For quite clearly having a massive sulk , not compromising or adjusting for targets in the remainder of the summer window once Gray and Gayle had flown (If either were viable / coming here before their agents sought better packages / clubs)

For poor loan recruitment

For a stubborn refusal to try a different formation from his flawed one for Championship , and , or , personnel.

For demonstrating his hump about the size of the squad / transfers at every given opportunity right up to his dismissal - not beneficial to anyone.

For leaving bench places empty and stating publicly his players couldn't compete with Derby - all for me political digs at the board , at the players , fans , club , and boards ultimate expense

SL / Board

For not intervening earlier, if Neccessary removing SC when he kept repeating his public hump whilst the same team, tactics and approach , clearly flawed carried on with repeating poor results 

For  dithering and dithering ( With it would appear no thought of checking / considering the available / possible managerial market !!!!!!!! )

For waiting until mid transfer window before finally deciding we had to change (As with most I assumed that by Xmas and certainly Jan that they had decided to stick with SC and although I disagreed with this accepted it and was happy to carry on supporting SC at games at least for the foreseeable)

I simply couldn't believe that we'd be stupid enough to let SC get into mid transfer window and then sack him especially with no idea of a realistic replacement.

But we were !

So that's it for me - No blame initially in the summer for either - BOTH since to a major degree

And sorry NickJ - all opinions but the best manager in the last 30 yrs ?

Not even close for me - did great here for 18 months - REALLY great - got us out the mire - produced a great side which won the League playing great football 

But for me , honestly......

Very determined, great passion , Wiil to win , driven , but ultimately flawed tactically and in temperament for any long term success 

Shame but there it is

[shelts]

Whilst the owner indicated he was fully expecting a new list of targets to be presented to him of slightly lower calibre (i.e. more attainable), he also kept reiterating that he has never yet said "no" to going after a target due to the price or the wages

Our majority share holder must be telling a porkie pie then as the above was said on Twentymans show. It could be tripe. I see now reason for him to lie as he already wasted millions on City. Someone enlighten me please!!

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

I'm convinced we were going to be relegated under Cotterill (or at least it would have been so close it was too risky to let things stay as they were) So whether the board had someone lined up or not Cotterill needed to go.

You feel confident we're more likely stay up having booted out a manager who we know was so popular with the squad?

The chances of relegation have increased by his departure imo. 

With no plan B there is the real danger of this young squad losing heart and City going into freefall now.

Despite the opinions of some on here Steve Cotterill actually has a very impressive record in almost 20 years of management.

Most pertinent to our present predicament it should be noted that no club has ever been relegated under his management.

I wonder if his replacement will be able to say that?

 

 

[Bristol Rob]

As long as we have someone to blame everything is going to be fine.

Blaming the board/manager/scouts/FLO or anyone is the right way to go, it won't have a negative effect and lead to further division. 

Absolutely not.

Reality is, collectively players didn't get signed, that might have been because the ex manager didn't have realistic targets, it might be because he thought his double winning side ddeserved a fair crack at the Championship, it could be that he didn't think the players being offered to him were good value for money.

Could be that the board made promises that the owner wouldn't underwrite, could be that with a 3 sided ground meeting FPP meant hands were tied, could be any, some or all of the above.

We won't be told. We will however have people ITK or claiming to be ITK who post information in contradiction with other ITK-ers, leading for further speculation, division and doubt.

Don't you just love the soap opera that is football?

[NickJ]

14 minutes ago, robin4ever said:

I like the fact I am a nutter , or related to SC , but nothing could be further from the truth. I am a fan who has been frustrated for many years. Then we get a manager who brings us exciting attacking football that was a pleasure to watch. After a great 18 months and ultimate success we refuse to build on the momentum and belief that the club has . Why why why ? I read so many opinions on here and some are so outrageous and laughable that I do get frustrated and probably don't put my points across as elequently as others. We really had an oppertunity to establish ourselves this season and continue with the rise of BCFC , but SL chose not too. Bottom line is that players will sign and come to us if the money is right. Kodjia came from France because we got in early and the finances offered to him were far greater than his French contract. He fell into our wage cap , but genuine championship players or championship potential players won't come , because we won't pay the going rate . I have never strayed from my opinions as have never had proof of the contrary . IMO if SC is not the man to take us forward then how on this earth can Pembo be ???? Shambles from last May onwards and so needless

For the record "demented nutter" was a compliment - I like demented nutters, they have passion.

Either you invent some very detailed information, or you are closer to SC than you admit, or you have access to information from elsewhere.

Whatever, if you are nothing to do with SC, just a fan like me, that's quite telling, given the forcefulness with which you have expressed views and shared information.

And you are dead right at the end there, if the failing is of SC to get the most out of the players, what evidence is there that Pembo (and BTW no criticism of him intended as I heard nothing but good things about him) will do so.

Yes, it is a shambles, a complete and utter basket case.

Know what I find really really frustrating?

It doesn't matter how many times on a thread like this it is explained with some conviction that the start of the demise was the summer transfer fiasco, which was not Cotterill's fault, there are still people that say, "the board are rubbish" (good start) "they should have sacked Cotterill in November".

 

 

[Vincent Vega]

Realistic targets , for Gray & Gayle see Dack & Clough.