I Give Up!

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, Webzcas said:

Probably to do with the fact however small the market, bookies are a good gauge. 

Not really, bookies reflect what people think.  They don't have any more insight than that.  They react to how people bet, and not that many people are going to be bothered whom we appoint, so it's mostly Cidereds that are betting, and most of that will be based on gut feel.  Bet you the actual number of bets placed are small, relatively.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

14 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Clearly the way forward is for SL  to have a crafty £200k on Nigel Pearson at 18-1 winning £3.6million offering said NP a deal at say £3million (he'd bite his hand off for this) so every one's a winner.

It's this lack of progressive thinking which is holding this club back

 

We need more out of the box thinking like this.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Largely BCFC make BCFC decisions. But the two businesses, naturally, overlap. Where 'strong' personalities feel like pushing their weight around, from Bristol Sport into Bristol City affairs, weaker-minded individuals might wilt and they can influence things which are little to do with their remit.

Short of naming names, that's pretty much the long and short of it. It's not necessarily a bad thing, people who can manipulate other people have always ended up with a huge amount of influence at football clubs far larger than ours.

Fair enough, I can work that one out easily enough and agree it is not neccessarily a bad thing. Influence is one thing though, I've no doubt the final decision to dismiss SC was made with the best intentions by the board of BCFC.

[southvillekiddy]

45 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Steve Coppell was someone who really knew about football and how to get teams promoted and he was an utter disaster for us.  Malky Mackay knew how to get teams promoted from the Championship and took Wigan down. Paul Jewell was the man who originally got Wigan promoted and never really succeeded elsewhere.  Ditto Brian McDermott and Nigel Adkins have strugged to replicate earlier success.  Ian Holloway too.  I'm not saying Pearson would be a bad appointment but I am saying we need to get away from this idea that appointing someone who got a club promoted at a different club in different circumstances  is the guaranteed way to succeed.  Let's not forget Leicester were a big spending Championship club who were able to financially compete with and out-muscle most of the division.  We don't know if Pearson could succeed here in the same way.   Perhaps he could and perhaps he couldn't but the biggest name isn't always the right manager. 

Okay mate but before we can judge Steve Coppell, who i agree was the only name Manager we have ever had, qualified and connected in the way I would want our new manager to be, we would have to know what led him to walk away from City after such a short time. You might be able to guess my theories on that one.

As you point there has to be the finances and the will to make it happen without interference.

Someone who has done it before is surely a good start.

[RedorDead BCFC]

3 hours ago, Webzcas said:

I really really hope the bookies have got this wrong

 

There is a button on this page oddschecker that shows what percentage of money has been placed. 

 

When I looked yesterday it showed that Stuart Pearce had the higher percentage of money placed. 

 

However Alan Irvine was suspended yesterday so the bookies might be onto something unless they have been un-suspended (made up word) today. And I heard a rumour ( I have no idea how reliable this is so please don't start a new thread) that Irvine was being paid garden leave from WBA till January. Can't believe it as he left them ages ago. 

 

 

 

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, southvillekiddy said:

Okay mate but before we can judge Steve Coppell, who i agree was the only name Manager we have ever had, qualified and connected in the way I would want our new manager to be, we would have to know what led him to walk away from City after such a short time. You might be able to guess my theories on that one.

As you point there has to be the finances and the will to make it happen without interference.

I suspect my theories on why Coppell walked away are a bit different to yours.  Although, if I'm right on that, I hope it doesn't become public.  But I think it's erroneous to blame the board in lieu of us having facts as a great number of things could have been at play.

[RedorDead BCFC]

Tim Sherwoods odds are dropping at the moment Bet Fair have him on odds checker at 20/21 if they are correct that is. 

 

Ignore that just noticed still 33/1 in bet victor 

[southvillekiddy]

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I suspect my theories on why Coppell walked away are a bit different to yours.  Although, if I'm right on that, I hope it doesn't become public.  But I think it's erroneous to blame the board in lieu of us having facts as a great number of things could have been at play.

Thing is mate the balance of probabilities means that The Board (for which one can now almost exclusively substitute "the owner") are ultimately responsible for the mistakes because they're appoint the manager. If it goes wrong they have appointed the wrong man.

Bristol City are spectacularly bad at finding the right man.

In the last 40 years we're had one fully successful manager - Alan Dicks (prior to SL) and three partially successful managersTerry Cooper, also prior to SL Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill under SL. Not brilliant is it.

We've had great players, a hand full of decent managers but throughout all this period BCFC has been presided over by generally poor quality Board members, who have been unambitious with their managerial appointments and therefore one must doubt if they have been serious about putting BCFC at the highest level. Harry Dolman got AD by a miracle or a fluke. SL is yet to match him.

[arpaul]

10 hours ago, phantom said:

The note at the top of the odds page may explain why Pemberton is "Odds On" as he only needs another 7 games for the bookies to pay out and in't necessarily because he's the boards favoured choice??

[Snufflelufagus]

Pembo now 1/2 with skybet for those interested. 

[GrahamC]

On 25 January 2016 at 12:36, Redtone said:

 

However Alan Irvine was suspended yesterday so the bookies might be onto something unless they have been un-suspended (made up word) today. And I heard a rumour ( I have no idea how reliable this is so please don't start a new thread) that Irvine was being paid garden leave from WBA till January. Can't believe it as he left them ages ago. 

 

 

 

Irvine is at Blackburn, as assistant to Paul Lambert.

[castle red]

We have gone from a club with everything last year;to a club who is clueless this  season get warnock in now let's stop being the laughing stock. 

[steviestevieneville]

On 1/25/2016 at 10:47, Doozerchris said:

Oh sorry , I thought it was all part of the same organisation. 

My apologies. 

No it's not. Bristol sport are just basically a management/promotion company. Can't see why so many people keep getting confused.

[castle red]

By laughing  stock  i mean we are all kept well in the dark when tthings aren't so good as for those who hate warnock would like him for same reasons its called PASSION for the club you are managing, its a job get him in now.

[TRL]

On 1/25/2016 at 18:56, southvillekiddy said:

Thing is mate the balance of probabilities means that The Board (for which one can now almost exclusively substitute "the owner") are ultimately responsible for the mistakes because they're appoint the manager. If it goes wrong they have appointed the wrong man.

Bristol City are spectacularly bad at finding the right man.

In the last 40 years we're had one fully successful manager - Alan Dicks (prior to SL) and three partially successful managersTerry Cooper, also prior to SL Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill under SL. Not brilliant is it.

We've had great players, a hand full of decent managers but throughout all this period BCFC has been presided over by generally poor quality Board members, who have been unambitious with their managerial appointments and therefore one must doubt if they have been serious about putting BCFC at the highest level. Harry Dolman got AD by a miracle or a fluke. SL is yet to match him.

We also Had Jordan and Ward. I would say our success and failures was just above par, we have generally been a yo yo team.

 

I agree there doesn't seem the real appetite to push Bristol City forward. With the current owner and all his wealth,if he really really really wanted to get to the premiership,I believe he could have got us there a while ago.  But he as persistantly gone about this in a very half arsed way... He can go on all he likes about sustainability, the only real way to get that nowadays is at the highest level with the Money that comes in from TV, Europe and massive sponsorship deals,if he thinks Bristol City is going to be sustainable and be in the premiership for any length of time (if ever) the way he is currently going about things, then he imo, is sadly mistaken.

[YorkshireSection]

On 25 January 2016 at 11:08, LondonBristolian said:

Steve Coppell was someone who really knew about football and how to get teams promoted and he was an utter disaster for us.  Malky Mackay knew how to get teams promoted from the Championship and took Wigan down. Paul Jewell was the man who originally got Wigan promoted and never really succeeded elsewhere.  Ditto Brian McDermott and Nigel Adkins have strugged to replicate earlier success.  Ian Holloway too.  I'm not saying Pearson would be a bad appointment but I am saying we need to get away from this idea that appointing someone who got a club promoted at a different club in different circumstances  is the guaranteed way to succeed.  Let's not forget Leicester were a big spending Championship club who were able to financially compete with and out-muscle most of the division.  We don't know if Pearson could succeed here in the same way.   Perhaps he could and perhaps he couldn't but the biggest name isn't always the right manager. 

Good post, however some of the small  names haven't exactly excelled either, time to role out the red carpet and spend the money on a manager who can build us back up.

[southvillekiddy]

On 25 January 2016 at 11:08, LondonBristolian said:

Steve Coppell was someone who really knew about football and how to get teams promoted and he was an utter disaster for us.  Malky Mackay knew how to get teams promoted from the Championship and took Wigan down. Paul Jewell was the man who originally got Wigan promoted and never really succeeded elsewhere.  Ditto Brian McDermott and Nigel Adkins have strugged to replicate earlier success.  Ian Holloway too.  I'm not saying Pearson would be a bad appointment but I am saying we need to get away from this idea that appointing someone who got a club promoted at a different club in different circumstances  is the guaranteed way to succeed.  Let's not forget Leicester were a big spending Championship club who were able to financially compete with and out-muscle most of the division.  We don't know if Pearson could succeed here in the same way.   Perhaps he could and perhaps he couldn't but the biggest name isn't always the right manager. 

No guarantee mate but it would be a good way to start? And presently I don't see us even avoiding relegation unless we have a name in charge who can attract better quality players.

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, southvillekiddy said:

No guarantee mate but it would be a good way to start?

I'd rather we appointed someone who's going to keep us up and then get us promoted.  I don't give a monkeys what they've done elsewhere and, to be honest, I don't think prior record is anywhere near as important as some fans think it is.  I don't claim to be a recruitment expert and it's not my job to be.  I just hope the board get it right. 

[southvillekiddy]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd rather we appointed someone who's going to keep us up and then get us promoted.  I don't give a monkeys what they've done elsewhere and, to be honest, I don't think prior record is anywhere near as important as some fans think it is.  I don't claim to be a recruitment expert and it's not my job to be.  I just hope the board get it right. 

Amen.

[twodogs]

what I'd like is a long term appointment not short term to keep us up. If the worst happened and we go down the person appointed has the ability to take us back up then look to take city to the so-called promised land. Who that is I have no real idea I've followed football for many years and as many posters have pointed out what works at one club doesnt at others. Football and supporters are very short term and its a case of whether anyone gets the time these days in any league as can be seen by the number of sackings across all the leagues.

I also want the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 25 January 2016 at 11:08, LondonBristolian said:

Paul Jewell was the man who originally got Wigan promoted and never really succeeded elsewhere.

Well he took Bradford up into the premier league as manager in his first managerial role....that doesn't count as success?

[citywest30]

On 25/01/2016 at 09:54, ashton_fan said:

It's either going to be Pemberton or Pemberton/Warnock, nobody else is either available, wants the job, or is wanted by the Board

How do you know this? 

It's all guesswork! We could announce one of the names on that list tomorrow and just as likely, we may have interviewed some not on it and announce them.

What is likely tho is that if we are appointing someone not on that list, then someone will get wind of it and start placing bets and that person will be on the betting list before the actual appointment is made.

[citywest30]

5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'd rather we appointed someone who's going to keep us up and then get us promoted.  I don't give a monkeys what they've done elsewhere and, to be honest, I don't think prior record is anywhere near as important as some fans think it is.  I don't claim to be a recruitment expert and it's not my job to be.  I just hope the board get it right. 

I find myself agreeing generally with a lot of your posts @LondonBristolian, so who out of interest would be your choice?

[internetjef]

5 hours ago, twodogs said:

what I'd like is a long term appointment not short term to keep us up. If the worst happened and we go down the person appointed has the ability to take us back up then look to take city to the so-called promised land. Who that is I have no real idea I've followed football for many years and as many posters have pointed out what works at one club doesnt at others. Football and supporters are very short term and its a case of whether anyone gets the time these days in any league as can be seen by the number of sackings across all the leagues.

I also want the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow.

One point to add to this.

let's say we do appoint a manager on a contract longer than the end of the season.

if that manager still takes us down, will it not be the case that the fans will have already decided he is useless anyway? 

with 20 odd games to go if he can't get enough results to see us one place out of relegation then his form will have had to be pretty poor (it's not like we are well adrift).

it would be more difficult for a manager/team to try and bounce back with a promotion the year after if the manager has already got the fans on his back from the first game of the new season

perhaps that could lend itself more to the idea of a short term appointment with a big bonus to keep us up and a full review at the end of the season??

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, citywest30 said:

I find myself agreeing generally with a lot of your posts @LondonBristolian, so who out of interest would be your choice?

The honest and boring answer is I don't know.  What I do know is that I was excited about Coppell, thought McInnes looked a really promising manager on paper and I thought Sean O'Driscoll was a good appointment where as I was really underwhelmed by Cotterill, and also that I was far from alone in any of those things and on all occasions I was spectacularly wrong.  Which means I'm a terrible judge of who should be appointed to manage football clubs but I think probably is also because, as supporters, none of us really know the personalities involved well enough to know what will work and what won't work.

Of all the names on the list, David Moyes is the one that would excite me the most but I've no idea if that would translate to a good appointment.  Failing that, I'd like to see a young progressive manager with a keen interest in sports science and youth development and a desire to build the club in the long-term but it'd take a massive gamble to find the right man.  But ultimately, I just hope Mark Ashton and whoever else is recruiting knows a bloody sight more about identifying football managerial talent than I do. 

[Chappers]

On 25 January 2016 at 18:56, southvillekiddy said:

Thing is mate the balance of probabilities means that The Board (for which one can now almost exclusively substitute "the owner") are ultimately responsible for the mistakes because they're appoint the manager. If it goes wrong they have appointed the wrong man.

Bristol City are spectacularly bad at finding the right man.

In the last 40 years we're had one fully successful manager - Alan Dicks (prior to SL) and three partially successful managersTerry Cooper, also prior to SL Gary Johnson and Steve Cotterill under SL. Not brilliant is it.

We've had great players, a hand full of decent managers but throughout all this period BCFC has been presided over by generally poor quality Board members, who have been unambitious with their managerial appointments and therefore one must doubt if they have been serious about putting BCFC at the highest level. Harry Dolman got AD by a miracle or a fluke. SL is yet to match him.

Good post, but I don't think it's lack of ambition that holds us back. As a start, you have to accept that we are pretty small fry in footballing terms, historically bouncing between levels 2 and 3, stuck there since 1984. We have occasionally shown ambition, but in my 40 years of following, that has involved a haphazard approach of chucking money around, with no long term plan. We need to look at our past success, and how similar clubs operate, and it usually involves stability, shrewd buying and youth development. We can supplement that with the occasional bigger signing, subject to FFP. We need a plan, stick to it, and as fans just accept the situation and be patient, football is full of basket case clubs who have tried to buy success.

Ironically, the one time we got close, our manager declined to strengthen in the January transfer window!

[southvillekiddy]

3 hours ago, Chappers said:

Good post, but I don't think it's lack of ambition that holds us back. As a start, you have to accept that we are pretty small fry in footballing terms, historically bouncing between levels 2 and 3, stuck there since 1984. We have occasionally shown ambition, but in my 40 years of following, that has involved a haphazard approach of chucking money around, with no long term plan. We need to look at our past success, and how similar clubs operate, and it usually involves stability, shrewd buying and youth development. We can supplement that with the occasional bigger signing, subject to FFP. We need a plan, stick to it, and as fans just accept the situation and be patient, football is full of basket case clubs who have tried to buy success.

Ironically, the one time we got close, our manager declined to strengthen in the January transfer window!

Agree totally. The fans would be more patient if they were convinced that there was a long term, high level plan in place, operated by people who were seen to know what they were doing, in other words Football people. it's just too amateurish and indulgent at the top at City. We've wasted millions in this way. I thought things were changing under SOD, with the 5 pillars etc... But SOD was again the wrong appointment and the 5 pillars seem all too easily to have crumbled into dust. Now we have the pathetic example of the owner returning from holiday to interfere in the interviewing process. If you can believe it, this story is given to the local rag and we look even more amateurish and stupid to a potential decent candidate. What does that tell us? The appointment of another suit, Mr Ashton is a sham. Further the Club believe the fans will be reassured that SL is back from holiday and interfering again? As you say if we are serious about the Premier League then we model our club on how a successful Premier league Club is run i.e.. we appoint the best people, especially we appoint the best manager. Spurs have been in the Premiership doldrums for decades. Look at the difference the appointment of Pochettino has made even to such a famous Club. (Please nobody say we can't compare ourselves to Spurs because that mental attitude is probably our biggest obstacle - Clubs in Towns with a population a fifth the size of Bristol have Premiership sides. We are big enough)

[oldstandrobin]

56 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said:

 The appointment of another suit, Mr Ashton is a sham. Further the Club believe the fans will be reassured that SL is back from holiday and interfering again? 

So right. SL by his own admissions doesnt claim to know the general technical side of running a club. In the past I have known many wealthy men ( and women) who didnt have a clue on how to sell...............so they got people in and paid them to do that side of the business. Getting Mr Ashton in is a last throw of the dice by our owner and in my opinion he has left it too late. Sc did but in the summer JL co**ed it up with the potential new signings ( nothing new there) and added to yet more mistakes within the club. At the moment we have as much chance of getting into the Premiership with SL at the helm as I have of living to 110

[southvillekiddy]

1 hour ago, oldstandrobin said:

So right. SL by his own admissions doesnt claim to know the general technical side of running a club. In the past I have known many wealthy men ( and women) who didnt have a clue on how to sell...............so they got people in and paid them to do that side of the business. Getting Mr Ashton in is a last throw of the dice by our owner and in my opinion he has left it too late. Sc did but in the summer JL co**ed it up with the potential new signings ( nothing new there) and added to yet more mistakes within the club. At the moment we have as much chance of getting into the Premiership with SL at the helm as I have of living to 110

Living to 110 and living at No.10? I am afraid that that is the truth mate.