Mark 'Gobbledygook' Ashton

[Esmond Million's Bung]

56 minutes ago, spudski said:

I beg to differ on that EMB...I agree he doesn't come across well on camera, but he has taken time to do pod casts, always wrote thoughtful notes, and having spent time talking to the chap, was always willing to talk football and share his thoughts...you could feel the passion he had for football. He's often too honest in his appraisals, and can rough people up the wrong way...he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

I know he came across to some people at the Club as rude and arrogant...but he was under immense pressure to try and make this Club work for the long term. He was trying to do the job of many men...as we didn't have the 'infrastructure' in place that SL has spoken about recently. He was working to make the Club work as a whole and not just short term. From the Academy up...trying to put things in place. A lot of the 'infrastructure' being put in place recently, is down to what SoD recommended...I know this for a fact. Granted it failed on the pitch...but i'm really not surprised considering.

We are going back, to making this Club sustainable and work for the future.

What certain fans fail to realise, is that SC was ripping the heart out of this Club. He may have got promotion...but he was doing it his way. He wasn't thinking about the clubs long term future...he was managing in a way that would see out the length of his Contract.

He had no interest in the development teams or Academy...as he knew none of those players would probably be good enough to break into the first team during his tenure. It was purely short term thinking on his part...all about who could he get that would make him instantly successful...no thought of development or for the future. Even fringe players were shunned. He even fell out with coach's and staff to a point of not talking to them.

He actually told the under 21's they were useless...had them in tears, and told them he might as well tear up their contracts. The bloke was a bully, and just interested in SC the man...rather than Bristol City, the Club. Unfortunately many don't see that part of the Club.

His demeanor in front of the camera, was one of a man who sulked and blamed everyone else bar himself.

I'd rather have a manager and team of people in place, who are working for the club...rather than for themselves...regardless of how they come across on camera or in the media.

The whole ethos now, seems to be to employ people who have a passion, but are also connected to this Club and City.

I can only see positive moves right now...and I've been one of the clubs biggest critics as you know...so credit, where credit is due.

Not for the first time, you have totally lost me, read what I said I agreed with most of what you said, just disagreed about SOD and his interviews that is just my opinion and the opinion of a lot of other BCFC fans and you ramble on to this SODesque dirge.

Just one little thing I never mentioned SC, so I really don't know why you needed to in your ramble, but since you have, I had a conversation recently with somebody whose son worked at the club and especially at Failand under both SOD and SC and his views about the the two of them were diametrically opposed to what you say about the two of them, he found SOD rude, off hand, disinterested and moody and SC helpful, pleasant and interested, so as I always say the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 hours ago, bris red said:

The blokes a complete belter in my humble opinion. I dont really see any place for a non productive smart ass at BCFC to be honest.

We're gonna miss you

[RedRock]

Thanks for that, useful insight.

Fear my conclusion would be that 20 years of various styles of management have failed to deliver anything remotely like a conveyor belt of talent worthy of first team places. Personally, would now be going near 'oven ready' players and proven 'winners' like Tom Nichols (who scored on Saturday) from lower leagues. 

But hey, maybe others have amazing degrees of patience (and vast amounts of money) and will give The Academy set up yet another chance. Hopefully, the numerous coaches and players respond better than they have previously to a new  phase of a caring, nurturing environment. 

[Jack Dawe]

25 minutes ago, spudski said:

Ask how many times he actually watched the under 21's or took any interest in their development...

I've been to two U21 games this season, one at Failand, one at AG. SC was at the Failand game and was full-on Cotts during the game, shouting, pointing, the lot. The game at AG he wasn't there, presumably due to the first team being away that evening as we were playing away somewhere the following day.

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Not for the first time, you have totally lost me, read what I said I agreed with most of what you said, just disagreed about SOD and his interviews that is just my opinion and the opinion of a lot of other BCFC fans and you ramble on to this SODesque dirge.

Just one little thing I never mentioned SC, so I really don't know why you needed to in your ramble, but since you have, I had a conversation recently with somebody whose son worked at the club and especially at Failand under both SOD and SC and his views about the the two of them were diametrically opposed to what you say about the two of them, he found SOD rude, off hand, disinterested and moody and SC helpful, pleasant and interested, so as I always say the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

Fair point fella...but just trying to get across the reason why SoD was like he was....not perfect by any means.

As for your conversation...I had the same conversation, and I imagine it's the same person. And his sons experience, was as you say...shame it happened to him, but soD wasn't the only one who wasn't helpful...he was trying to prioritise...I shouldn't imagine it was SoD's position to guide that person...it should have been someone else's...as SoD said to me...he often didn't have a clue who was responsible for what down there.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I've been to two U21 games this season, one at Failand, one at AG. SC was at the Failand game and was full-on Cotts during the game, shouting, pointing, the lot. The game at AG he wasn't there, presumably due to the first team being away that evening as we were playing away somewhere the following day.

You should have heard him against Mangotsfield...cups flying everywhere haha...completely lost it.

[Jack Dawe]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

You should have heard him against Mangotsfield...cups flying everywhere haha...completely lost it.

Was he round @slartibartfast's?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I too have suffered listening to corporate talk around a board room...it's nauseating.

However it seems fans are just picking up on individual words like 'synergy' and not listening to the rest of his comments...which come across clearly and eloquently.

He maybe not perfect...but I really don't understand this fixation by certain City supporters, who seem to be offended by people who talk in a thoughtful and eloquent way.

He gets slated for using certain words, wearing a suit...SoD got slated for mumbling and speaking quietly...but tbh...look beyond their 'personalities'  both try to communicate something to the fans that is interesting and beyond normal 'football catch phrases'.

It seems certain fans get their hackles up when listening to obviously educated people...it's reverse snobbery.

The majority of people are judging the poor bloke on media clips...I bet the majority of people criticising him have never had to stand in front of a camera and talk in a relaxed manner...I've had to do this for work for local news reports abroad...and trust me, when you have a camera and mic pointed at you and someone asking you questions, it's not easy.

He's not employed primarily to do interviews...he's employed to do talent spotting and recruitment and negotiating contracts etc.

Lisa Knights is a prime example of how to 'communicate' with the fans...but that's what she's employed to do.

MA needs to be given a break...and if judged...people should do it, based on who he recruits and how well his negotiations go.

Not aimed at you fella...but a general observation.

Spudski

Well done mate- there's some really blue sky thinking in your recent posts.

But we should all remember - if you want the rainbow- you've gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which 'philosopher' said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she's just a pair of tits.

[RedM]

12 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I've been to two U21 games this season, one at Failand, one at AG. SC was at the Failand game and was full-on Cotts during the game, shouting, pointing, the lot. The game at AG he wasn't there, presumably due to the first team being away that evening as we were playing away somewhere the following day.

And I've been to an u21 game earlier this season where Cotterill and Pemberton sat quietly behind me taking lots of notes and looking very serious. They left the on the pitch stuff to Wade, rightly so. 

[Guest]

He's probably a translator.

Corporate BS > football talk

Football talk > corporate BS

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Spudski

Well done mate- there's some really blue sky thinking in your recent posts.

But we should all remember - if you want the rainbow- you've gotta put up with the rain. Do you know which 'philosopher' said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she's just a pair of tits.

Would liked to have been more 'Blue Sky' in the past MRR...but at least the Club seem to be doing the right thing, so credit, where credit is due...even if it is 15 years too late.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Just now, spudski said:

Would liked to have been more 'Blue Sky' in the past MRR...but at least the Club seem to be doing the right thing, so credit, where credit is due...even if it is 15 years too late.

It's never too late to become customercentric.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

32 minutes ago, spudski said:

Fair point fella...but just trying to get across the reason why SoD was like he was....not perfect by any means.

As for your conversation...I had the same conversation, and I imagine it's the same person. And his sons experience, was as you say...shame it happened to him, but soD wasn't the only one who wasn't helpful...he was trying to prioritise...I shouldn't imagine it was SoD's position to guide that person...it should have been someone else's...as SoD said to me...he often didn't have a clue who was responsible for what down there.

Here's the real problem as I see it, results, the fans, the board, KB and now Mr Ashton will judge LJ.

Who exactly will judge everybody else at the club? and I mean everybody else, including Mr Ashton.

Who will judge the coaches if players especially those at the academy do not improve and are deemed either not good enough or not ready by the first team manager/coach and the sad reality will always be the only people being properly judged are the manager and his chosen players, most of the others at the club can have easy ride if they so wish, because it's quite rare to see coaches just let go, it's only the main man every time and doesn't always tell the full story of what is going wrong at a club.

That is where you really need an A1 football man as your DOF, one who has been there and done it at a big club and has no interest in being a manager/coach but can tell at all levels of the club who is not doing their job properly, I know it's a big ask but that is exactly what we need IMO, not somebody who will suck up to SL or Mr Ashton but somebody who will tell them when they are wrong as well.

One last thing BCFC does have a large fanbase and everything that occurs at the club cannot reflect what a select few believe to be right because they believe it to be right and sometimes that has to be remembered.

[Jack Dawe]

11 minutes ago, RedM said:

And I've been to an u21 game earlier this season where Cotterill and Pemberton sat quietly behind me taking lots of notes and looking very serious. They left the on the pitch stuff to Wade, rightly so. 

Don't tell spud I said this, but there's probably more in commom between him and SC than he imagines or would ever admit to! 

 

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Here's the real problem as I see it, results, the fans, the board, KB and now Mr Ashton will judge LJ.

Who exactly will judge everybody else at the club? and I mean everybody else, including Mr Ashton.

Who will judge the coaches if players especially those at the academy do not improve and are deemed either not good enough or not ready by the first team manager/coach and the sad reality will always be the only people being properly judged are the manager and his chosen players, most of the others at the club can have easy ride if they so wish, because it's quite rare to see coaches just let go, it's only the main man every time and doesn't always tell the full story of what is going wrong at a club.

That is where you really need an A1 football man as your DOF, one who has been there and done it at a big club and has no interest in being a manager/coach but can tell at all levels of the club who is not doing their job properly, I know it's a big ask but that is exactly what we need IMO, not somebody who will suck up to SL or Mr Ashton but somebody who will tell them when they are wrong as well.

One last thing BCFC does have a large fanbase and everything that occurs at the club cannot reflect what a select few believe to be right because they believe it to be right and sometimes that has to be remembered.

I'm not sure I understand you EMB...whoever is doing their job will be judged by those in charge...the board and owner.

As the Club have pointed out...if you have one man in charge, that person generally brings in their team of 'people'...if it doesn't work out, then you have to often replace everyone.

Having the likes of a DoF and MA in place, it allows Coach's to come and go seamlessly if you have to.

If in that time, it becomes apparent that those cogs aren't working together either...then they too would be replaced.

It's like any job...you have a team, and each person does a different job.

If someone isn't pulling their weight, then meetings are called and discussions take place.

If a common theme starts to appear, then questions are asked and actions taken if necessary.

Clubs often go backwards when too many Cogs are replaced at the same time.

It happened at Utd...Moyes started replacing certain staff....soon as he did that, people in the game said he'd struggle there.

You need some continuity...not changing everything.

17 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Don't tell spud I said this, but there's probably more in commom between him and SC than he imagines or would ever admit to! 

 

Me and SC have nothing in common...but if you mean Pembo...you have a point.

[Jack Dawe]

Just now, spudski said:

I'm not sure I understand you EMB...whoever is doing their job will be judged by those in charge...the board and owner.

As the Club have pointed out...if you have one man in charge, that person generally brings in their team of 'people'...if it doesn't work out, then you have to often replace everyone.

Having the likes of a DoF and MA in place, it allows Coach's to come and go seamlessly if you have to.

If in that time, it becomes apparent that those cogs aren't working together either...then they too would be replaced.

It's like any job...you have a team, and each person does a different job.

If someone isn't pulling their weight, then meetings are called and discussions take place.

If a common theme starts to appear, then questions are asked and actions taken if necessary.

Clubs often go backwards when too many Cogs are replaced at the same time.

It happened at Utd...Moyes started replacing certain staff....soon as he did that, people in the game said he'd struggle there.

You need some continuity...not changing everything.

Me and SC have nothing in common...but if you mean Pembo...you have a point.

I knew you wouldn't admit it  

[Dynamite Red]

I don't care how he speaks as long as it not bullshit and spin, the corporate buzz words are a tad off putting but hey ho. He is obviously a good speaker, reminds me a bit of a politician but I half suspect what is said and what is actually done maybe another thing. Unfortunately that is down to my view of most of the current club managemt, we will have to see and judge him accordingly.

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

Was he round @slartibartfast's?

That was probably my mrs !

[BRISTOL86]

52 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

He's probably a translator.

Corporate BS > football talk

Football talk > corporate BS

When people misuse these signs it's > annoying.

[redsquirrel]

Just now, BRISTOL86 said:

When people misuse these signs it's > annoying.

greater than? anyway,i have to get used to the fact things have changed a bit,best thing for me for now is to not listen to the interviews i think as it is only his way of talking winding me up. who knows,he might turn out to be the best thing thats happened for a while

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

He actually told the under 21's they were useless...had them in tears, and told them he might as well tear up their contracts.

Before I go to get high on Lidl's wasabi peanuts, cashews and almonds. 

I couldn't let that bit go, even if I believe what you say and for the purposes of this post I will believe you, you are telling me that grown men were brought to tears by being shouted out FFS, they are clearly in the wrong job, WTF will they do when 15,000 people are shouting at them, there are kids younger than them who have witnessed first hand the horrors of war and then when they come home are just left to their own devices because nobody cares about them, most academy kids have had their arses wiped since the age of 8.

 

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'm not sure I understand you EMB...whoever is doing their job will be judged by those in charge...the board and owner.

As the Club have pointed out...if you have one man in charge, that person generally brings in their team of 'people'...if it doesn't work out, then you have to often replace everyone.

Having the likes of a DoF and MA in place, it allows Coach's to come and go seamlessly if you have to.

If in that time, it becomes apparent that those cogs aren't working together either...then they too would be replaced.

It's like any job...you have a team, and each person does a different job.

If someone isn't pulling their weight, then meetings are called and discussions take place.

If a common theme starts to appear, then questions are asked and actions taken if necessary.

Clubs often go backwards when too many Cogs are replaced at the same time.

It happened at Utd...Moyes started replacing certain staff....soon as he did that, people in the game said he'd struggle there.

You need some continuity...not changing everything.

 

You managed to lose me again, I am talking about one man a DOF I repeat one man not a new team, not changing everything, where did you see that in my post? and as you have told us in the past you do not rate this current DOF.

As for the highlighted sentences, most coaches lower down the food chain usually if they move on, move on to bigger better things because they have applied for jobs, it is very rare that those coaches are sacked only the head man is sacked and sometimes his no.2, my point is if the head coach/manager takes an active interest and believes that one or more of his coaches are not doing their job properly, then they are interfering something that you abhor, so it needs a PROPER DOF who knows how it should work to look at all aspects of the running of the club and before you say it, I do not mean micro manage, I mean "i've got an hour free today, i'll spend it with the under 18's and their coach and so on and so forth and then guess what if one of the academy coaches says this kid is ready to step up then hopefully the DOF can either support or put in his two penneth because he is in the know because he is doing his job.

SL and the board wouldn't know shit from pudding when comes to deciding if somebody on the football side of things is back sliding, unless once more the head coach/manager tells him then once more he is accused of interfering.

I was very interested in the early hours of the morning seeing how John Elway was deep in the middle of the organisation of the Denver Bronco's in their super bowl win, the main link between the coaches and the owner, maybe a lesson to be learned?.

 

[RedRidingHood]

6 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Perhaps you should touch base with him for some blue sky thinking

Please can someone translate blue sky thinking into something meaningful. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

When people misuse these signs it's > annoying.

It's no < you deserve

7 minutes ago, RedRidingHood said:

Please can someone translate blue sky thinking into something meaningful. 

Come on, use your imagination.

[RedRidingHood]

7 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Perhaps you should touch base with him for some blue sky thinking

 

[RedRidingHood]

I can only think it means you have your head in the clouds 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Ask how many times he actually watched the under 21's or took any interest in their development...

Wade and Pembo, included fringe players into the first team squad and academy products. involved the whole squad on match day.

If they thought SC was doing right, having worked with him all that time, they would have stuck to doing the same thing. They didn't...and fortunes changed.

The bloke was a bully...just interested in himself.

We've got some good players in the development teams...you develop them...not bully them. I know some were completely disillusioned with the whole affair, as well as certain staff...and parents.

I know one parent of a player spoke to another potential player and told them not to bother here...not because the academy was bad...but because there was no clear path to the first team whilst SC was here.

Regarding what you said about the U21s, how did it effect SC & WE's relationship? After all  SC did appoint WE…

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Before I go to get high on Lidl's wasabi peanuts, cashews and almonds. 

I couldn't let that bit go, even if I believe what you say and for the purposes of this post I will believe you, you are telling me that grown men were brought to tears by being shouted out FFS, they are clearly in the wrong job, WTF will they do when 15,000 people are shouting at them, there are kids younger than them who have witnessed first hand the horrors of war and then when they come home are just left to their own devices because nobody cares about them, most academy kids have had their arses wiped since the age of 8.

 

You managed to lose me again, I am talking about one man a DOF I repeat one man not a new team, not changing everything, where did you see that in my post? and as you have told us in the past you do not rate this current DOF.

As for the highlighted sentences, most coaches lower down the food chain usually if they move on, move on to bigger better things because they have applied for jobs, it is very rare that those coaches are sacked only the head man is sacked and sometimes his no.2, my point is if the head coach/manager takes an active interest and believes that one or more of his coaches are not doing their job properly, then they are interfering something that you abhor, so it needs a PROPER DOF who knows how it should work to look at all aspects of the running of the club and before you say it, I do not mean micro manage, I mean "i've got an hour free today, i'll spend it with the under 18's and their coach and so on and so forth and then guess what if one of the academy coaches says this kid is ready to step up then hopefully the DOF can either support or put in his two penneth because he is in the know because he is doing his job.

SL and the board wouldn't know shit from pudding when comes to deciding if somebody on the football side of things is back sliding, unless once more the head coach/manager tells him then once more he is accused of interfering.

I was very interested in the early hours of the morning seeing how John Elway was deep in the middle of the organisation of the Denver Bronco's in their super bowl win, the main link between the coaches and the owner, maybe a lesson to be learned?.

 

Apologies...it was your first two paragraphs that threw me EMB...because you mentioned all an sundry.

I get the impression you are not fully understanding the position of our DoF...he doesn't have that much power.

LJ, KB, MA, JP, WE and certain Scouts will sit down and debate transfer targets.  The group meetings held, are aimed to find a common answer as to what they need to purchase in the transfer market, therefore using the wisdom of all of them.

The roles of the DoF and MA may include control over transfer dealings and targets and aspects outside coaching and squad selection, which are handled by LJ, JP and WE.

But they don't have sole say in who is coming here...it's a joint decision.

In English football the DoF position is still scorned upon due to the impression that they sometimes have more power than the actual Coach/ Manager. KB's position of DoF is more like that of a Chief Scout which has many similarities to a DoF. If LJ Knows that the scouting network is successful and transfer targets achievable and negotiable, then this allows him to focus on the team. With LJ making suggestions and KB and MA locating possible future purchases, it is he who can control the direction the club goes when it comes to transfer market dealings.

My concerns with our present DoF, was that I get the impression he likes to use a small pond of trusted sources and sticks with them.

With MA on board and now LJ, I believe that network will be broader and we will have more success in bringing faces in, not just with the first team, but development players as well. From what I've heard, they are more receptive to listening to other sources for suggestions on players.

Time will tell.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, RedRidingHood said:

I can only think it means you have your head in the clouds 

Assuming that you aren't being obtuse?

Pulling ideas out of the air in the hope that one will produce something tangible. Used to be known as brainstorming, which in turn used to be known as thinking creatively etc.

It's business jargon/bs

[Davefevs]

My view on MA is that we should judge him on his job, not the way he communicates / speaks.  Having said that, the way he does that sounds remarkably like some of the stuff I hear spouted in my office, a Big Corporate.  I'm mainly taking the pi$$, around the recurring word like 'process', but in effect he is a 'suit' and he's been asked to come in and do a 'suit' job, and therefore we should measure him on what he does.  Don't forget a lot of people laughed at SC's accent, but he did a bloody good job at the job he was brought in to do.

I'm sure most if not all of us have ever had to comprehend the role of a football COO, so are probably a bit sceptical about what he's said so far.

He's hardly going to come out and be unprofessional about other managers he may have spoken to, and he has got a number of deals over the line since his arrival.  The question for me is, if most if not all of these were SC targets, who wasn't getting them over the line before MA arrived.

i've said before, that my biggest judgement of MA will be his 'profile' between now and the end of the season....with now commencing once we've finalised our last 1 or 2 loans (emergency, emergency loans excepted), hopefully this week.

As the COO, he ought to drift into the background media wise, until we start summer recruitment.  If he does that, then I will judge him positively.  If he stays in the limelight, I will judge him as being full of his own importance.  He's 50:50 at the mo'.

[spudski]

23 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Regarding what you said about the U21s, how did it effect SC & WE's relationship? After all  SC did appoint WE…

I got the impression WE just kept his head down and got on with what he was asked...I know he's liked and respected by pretty much everyone at the club.

Always acts in a Professional manner with happy demeanor.