Sorry LJ you got that horribly wrong

[NickJ]

Never mind the Vyner selection, I agree that was a difficult one to call.

More baffling for me was taking off Bryan, who played well on Saturday and did again tonight, and sticking Tomlin out on the left wing, from where he did nothing for half hour until the last minute run into the penalty area.

[spudski]

It's a funny ol league...Cardiff put 4 past Brighton and Saturday...and Brighton do it to us.

Then Boro stick 3 past Cardiff tonight and Brentford stick 3 past Wolves who are falling like a rock.

A lot of bigger teams have got far worse records than us over the last 6 games.

And Preston keep going...can see them making the play offs at this rate.

Anyone can beat anyone it seems.

[Up The City!]

I didn't even realise we had a game tonight until about 7 so the fact we have one game less to play and still 8 points clear is a bit of a losing bonus. Ok some will argue we could have gone 11 points clear with a win but seriously who the hell expected us to win this one? They are on a completely different level to us right now. I'd rather we played the young lad in this game rather than in a 6 pointer. Had it been me as manager I'd have been tempted to make sweeping changes and rest our key players.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Nibor said:

Vyner had a mare, it happens, it's not the end of the world and I've seen worse from players five years or more his senior this season.

LJ was right to play him if Little was less than 100% and you can't take him off at half time without damaging his confidence more.

 

Usually agree with your posts, but have to disagree here. Vyner's confidence will have been more knocked by being kept on and being directly at fault for the third goal, then it would have been if he was subbed at half-time.  He was clearly out of his depth and by the third goal he knew it. His head was in his hands and comforting arms had to be put around him. The lad knew he was having a mare and was mortified.  Not good for morale.

Little was semi-crocked and could not run but just by taking up more sensible positions and winning headers he defended better than ZV.  45 minutes may well have kept the scoreline down.

I'm surprised Alex Pearce hasn't been brought into this thread. He had nearly as bad a night as Vyner.  Looked hopeless. The lack of depth in this squad has just manifested itself to LJ.

[Lrrr]

2 minutes ago, Just Red said:

I didn't even realise we had a game tonight until about 7 so the fact we have one game less to play and still 8 points clear is a bit of a losing bonus. Ok some will argue we could have gone 11 points clear with a win but seriously who the hell expected us to win this one? They are on a completely different level to us right now. I'd rather we played the young lad in this game rather than in a 6 pointer. Had it been me as manager I'd have been tempted to make sweeping changes and rest our key players.

Yeah people quoting where we were in the form table since Cotts left etc, Brighton were the team below us, given they're also in the play offs anything other than a defeat would have bee fantastic.

[Up The City!]

11 minutes ago, hodge said:

Yeah people quoting where we were in the form table since Cotts left etc, Brighton were the team below us, given they're also in the play offs anything other than a defeat would have bee fantastic.

I would have been delighted with a point and dancing for joy with a win but the only way we would have achieved that was if Brighton played poorly.

Football fans are very reluctant to accept that sometimes the other team is clearly just a better team. 

Even if each and everyone of our players gave 100% and played to the best of their ability, if Brightons players also did the same we would still lose as man for man their players and just simply better than ours currently.

I'm mildly pleased that we have a heavy defeat early on in LJ' reign, it's all been pretty good so far but now he gets to see how each and every player will react to such a heavy defeat. LJ will take a lot away from tonight's defeat.

[Red Skin]

9 hours ago, Tomarse said:

The noticeable difference for me if they gave us little or no time on the ball. Constantly high tempo and pressure. Something we need to aspire to if we ever want to do anything in this division. 

We pressed and harried at MK and it worked.  I expected the same last night but it wasn't really in evidence.  Maybe that took more out of the players and explained why we didn't look as fit last night?

Thought Little still looks way off the pace.  Some injuries can have a quite unbalancing effect on your overall body alignment and you compromise posture and gait to deal with them.  Little just doesn't look comfortable running, stratching for a ball, or doing much of anything to me.  

I feel it'll take a full summer of rest and recuperation to get back to his old self.  

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 hours ago, Londoner said:

I like everyone would like to see youngsters getting a go, being brought up from the youth sides.

But like I and some others said prior to the game, Brighton utilise their wide players Murphy and Knockeart....so why oh why would you play a kid with next to no experience?

Dont get me wrong, Little is not the saviour far from it.....but he has experience, and judging by the goals seen on tv Vyner is to blame for the first, third and arguably the second....sorry, but what a massive  howler playing the kid. Against MK he did well but made mistakes that weren't punished by a poor side, today he was punished....you must learn. But phase the kid in, LJ should know that.

I hope this doesn't destroy his confidence, but you cannot play against a top top side at this level with someone with no experience....A real shame.

Also I completely disagree with his idea that this was a "free game", this was for me an important game....the opportunity to virtually seal our survival, I think you got it completely wrong tonight.

i don't mean to be the baerer of negativity but I'm very disappointed, today was not the game to play Vyner. 

Hopefully we can forget about today, but more big games coming up.

 

I always reckoned that England would have won the World Cup in 2002 if it hadn't been for Eriksson picking David Seaman.  They way that Seaman let in that shot from Ronaldinho was appalling - what was Eriksson thinking of by picking him?  And the way Bradley Orr let that Dean Windass get in front of him in the 2008 play-off final, what on earth was Gary Johnson thinking of starting with him in the first place?  And if LJ hadn't brought Agard on last night, he wouldn't have missed that penalty.  Managers, eh?

Sack LJ; appoint Russell Grant.

[UREDS_91]

Seems likes a job for Captain Hindsight! 

 

[RedM]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

I wouldn't say LJ got it "horribly" wrong but it was certainly a call that impacted the game. 

Although it might've kicked the kids confidence a bit, he should never have come back out for the second half. It was clear he was struggling and there should be no room for sentiment. 

Options was the main conundrum tonight though. There was no 'fit' right back in the club. Ayling out. Little doubtful pre-match. Vyner played Saturday so most managers under those circumstances would stick. 

Williams in and moving Pearce to rb may have been the only other viable option. 

Of more concern though was the performance of Pearce. Mentally off the pace. Slow to recognise danger. Whilst vyner made the major errors for goals 1 & 3, Pearce covered himself in little glory with his contributions to 1 & 4. 

Poor night all-round against a very well organised team with superior fitness and more intelligent movement. 

Its done. Move on. 

Agree with you about Pearce, it was the first time I've seen him and I've posted elsewhere that he might as well not have been there. I felt for Flint, Vyner clearly struggling on one side of him ( Brighton rightly identified this and naturally exploited this) and Pearce on his other side. I expected more from Pearce, have seen little comments about his part in the match last night on here but plenty about Vyner.

Personally I would have put Wagstaff on for Vyner once we had gone two down, when the third went it it was game over. If Vyner wanted to save face I would have taken him off and cited injury. 

[RedM]

50 minutes ago, Red Army Faction said:

We pressed and harried at MK and it worked.  I expected the same last night but it wasn't really in evidence.  Maybe that took more out of the players and explained why we didn't look as fit last night?

Thought Little still looks way off the pace.  Some injuries can have a quite unbalancing effect on your overall body alignment and you compromise posture and gait to deal with them.  Little just doesn't look comfortable running, stratching for a ball, or doing much of anything to me.  

I feel it'll take a full summer of rest and recuperation to get back to his old self.  

Even back to his 'old self' he doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid, much, much prefer Ayling. Little does seem to get more of his fair share on injuries, and isn't quick to recover from them. Worth waiting for a good player to recover from, but I'm sorry but he's only at best average in my opinion. Patch him up and move him on, there must be better options out there.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

LJ - Huff and Puff and blow your house down - embarrassing. 

If you're talking about the Radio Bristol interview, I thought it was fair comment.

[Taz]

In reality not many would have expected us to win last night, with many saying a draw would be a good result. Yes we lost, heavily at home again, but two of the back 5 have not been regularly playing, and in the case of Vyner has played very little above U21 level.

The 3 wins before that I feel are more telling. Most of the teams below us lost, and we're the same number of points clear now as we were yesterday. Dust ourselves off, man up and work on where things went wrong. Set up for the next game and go from there.

Yes a win would have taken us 11 clear, but really, did we really expect that to happen?

[Red Skin]

5 hours ago, RedM said:

Even back to his 'old self' he doesn't cut it for me I'm afraid, much, much prefer Ayling. Little does seem to get more of his fair share on injuries, and isn't quick to recover from them. Worth waiting for a good player to recover from, but I'm sorry but he's only at best average in my opinion. Patch him up and move him on, there must be better options out there.

Sadly, I'm with you on that one.  Guess my real point was that picking Vyner was LJ's only option especially given his good performance at MK.  Freeman left him exposed at times (and left-footed player on that side is compromised defending tbh) but I was more disappointed with Pearce's performance that Vyner who is young and will make mistakes.

[wheatus59]

16 hours ago, Kodjias Sprained Wrist said:

You know we just won 3 on the spin right?

I think thats irrelevant to last night , the kid was out of his depth , and I'm told he really is a centre back , LJ said he likes to keep players in their correct positions . I would have started with little and changed it later on if he wasn't fit enough . It must have given the boy a huge knock to his confidence , i hope he recovers from this .

[Tipps69]

4 minutes ago, wheatus59 said:

I think thats irrelevant to last night , the kid was out of his depth , and I'm told he really is a centre back , LJ said he likes to keep players in their correct positions . I would have started with little and changed it later on if he wasn't fit enough . It must have given the boy a huge knock to his confidence , i hope he recovers from this .

But obviously ML wasn't fit & I would guess that LJ was hoping that ZV would be able to cope & there would be no need for ML to go on the pitch & that would allow his injuries to recover better for the weekend or maybe later if ZV had performed to a satisfactory standard!!

Unfortunatley that wasn't the case & an unfit ML was required to play even though we were already 3 nil down!!

[wheatus59]

22 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

But obviously ML wasn't fit & I would guess that LJ was hoping that ZV would be able to cope & there would be no need for ML to go on the pitch & that would allow his injuries to recover better for the weekend or maybe later if ZV had performed to a satisfactory standard!!

Unfortunatley that wasn't the case & an unfit ML was required to play even though we were already 3 nil down!!

I get that , i just think it was asking an awful lot of the young lad to be pitched in against a good side , i hope he bounce back from it .

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

16 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Given the rather thin nature of the squad it seemed LJ had no real option because of Little's fitness. 

Don't think LJ did a huge amount wrong tonight. Individual lapses and a huge difference in fitness between the two teams was how I saw it. 

Oddly enough that was the first time all season that I thought we looked noticeably less fit than an opposition team, and it comes after LJ made a comment about 'once we get up to fitness', or words to that affect after the game on Saturday. 

So is LJ saying all our players are not fit?  If so, why not?  Has there been something wrong with the training system, or are the players not up to it?  I really don't under stand a comment like this, why is it that the players are not fit now two thirds into the season.  Is this why we have lost so many games and can't  turn games around when we concede?  If that is the case then I suggest that instead of tip tapping the ball around all the time in a session, that LJ should get them on distance running, years ago in the time when John Shaw was the goalie, I remember seeing a photo in the Evening Post of the whole squad long distance running, I am sure this would improve their fitness.

 

 

[BRISTOL86]

15 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

So is LJ saying all our players are not fit?  If so, why not?  Has there been something wrong with the training system, or are the players not up to it?  I really don't under stand a comment like this, why is it that the players are not fit now two thirds into the season.  Is this why we have lost so many games and can't  turn games around when we concede?  If that is the case then I suggest that instead of tip tapping the ball around all the time in a session, that LJ should get them on distance running, years ago in the time when John Shaw was the goalie, I remember seeing a photo in the Evening Post of the whole squad long distance running, I am sure this would improve their fitness.

Your guess is as good as mine! I thought it was an odd comment at the time and took it to mean that he thought the overall fitness levels in the squad were not where he expected them to be, but hard to read much into a printed comment without knowing the full context. 

They (Brighton) certainly looked a much fitter side than us last night though. To not dominate the ball but still press aggressively all night and thoroughly restrict us takes some doing and requires a very high level of fitness. 

[Ivorguy]

Almost every newly appointed manager says the team he has inherited isn't fit enough.

It means nothing.

They only say it to buy themselves time

[Tipps69]

42 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

So is LJ saying all our players are not fit?  If so, why not?  Has there been something wrong with the training system, or are the players not up to it?  I really don't under stand a comment like this, why is it that the players are not fit now two thirds into the season.  Is this why we have lost so many games and can't  turn games around when we concede?  If that is the case then I suggest that instead of tip tapping the ball around all the time in a session, that LJ should get them on distance running, years ago in the time when John Shaw was the goalie, I remember seeing a photo in the Evening Post of the whole squad long distance running, I am sure this would improve their fitness.

 

 

The fitness issue come from the fact of having such a small squad?

Players having to play through what seemed to be niggling little injuries that have now escalated into bigger injuries?

As has been pointed out elsewhere, Brighton were able to make 5 changes through squad rotation / replacing players that maybe had an off day on Saturday in their loss!!

That is a luxury we haven't been able to afford ourselves for the whole season, while having to step up a standard & it's all probably taking it's toll on the whole squad & hopefully this will be something that is addressed in the summer with the incoming of 10 plus players of a higher quality than we already have.

[BRISTOL86]

Looks like the board have wasted no time in blaming Lee Johnson either. Just saw Rafa at Aldi Longwell Green. 

[bobbyhutchscurlymullet]

Oddly,according to the brighton forum, most of their fans gave stockdale the keeper the man of the match for them. Means we couldn't have been too bad, just poor defensively. 

[YorkshireSection]

19 hours ago, Dave said:

According to Sky Sports stats, we had a higher share of the possession, more shots and more shots on target, so we must have done some things right.

It did look a bit like some of the games earlier in the season, where the opponents were just more clinical.

We lack consistent quality upfront, if we're to stay up we need to put chances away.

Luckily Agards penalty target miss wasn't in the 94th minute of a 6 pointer, if we're to progress then we need two quality strikers next season, not to mention replacing the half a team of loanees and players that simply can't cut it at this level.

[Lrrr]

40 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Oddly,according to the brighton forum, most of their fans gave stockdale the keeper the man of the match for them. Means we couldn't have been too bad, just poor defensively. 

He did make a few excellent saves, can't remember who tried the first one, but the save from Pack was very good too.

[Red-Robbo]

41 minutes ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Oddly,according to the brighton forum, most of their fans gave stockdale the keeper the man of the match for them. Means we couldn't have been too bad, just poor defensively. 

Pulled off one great save, but our other shots didn't cause him too much grief. 

Their busy number 7 and the big number 10 were far more influential. 

[redfieldred]

1 hour ago, bobbyhutchscurlymullet said:

Oddly,according to the brighton forum, most of their fans gave stockdale the keeper the man of the match for them. Means we couldn't have been too bad, just poor defensively. 

For once our midfield was outfought. Thought the ref gave them a lot of leeway. Kodjia was pushed  in the back every time a high ball came in and never got one foul

they were allowed free range down the left due to mistakes and poor positional play by Young Vyner, who is not ready for this level, Pearce was also very poor and seemed reluctant to commit to tackles or get his foot in. He also consistently headed the ball to Brighton players instead of city ones.  Very poor, we need another 2 loanees to cover baker and right back. 

[Davefevs]

23 hours ago, Harry said:

Williams in and moving Pearce to rb may have been the only other viable option. 

Of more concern though was the performance of Pearce. Mentally off the pace. Slow to recognise danger. Whilst vyner made the major errors for goals 1 & 3, Pearce covered himself in little glory with his contributions to 1 & 4. 

Poor night all-round against a very well organised team with superior fitness and more intelligent movement. 

Its done. Move on. 

Agree re the option above.  The other option might've been 352, but I doubt that was really in LJ's mind (Pearce. RCB, Flint, Williams LCB), but that would've meant a huge reshuffle.

I was looking forward to seeing Vyner play, shame he didn't have the best one.  Hopefully it will be as big a learning experience as his debut.  Murphy, no slouch either, off left it right foot.

Pearce was not very good either....but I was more disappointed with those soft driven chips into the front man.  You want the ball played in with a bit of pace on it.  Hemed showed how to play the target last night, very good use of his body.

Ah well, chance for redemption on Saturday.

[AshtonGreat]

I just watched the goals from the Brighton game. Looked like woeful defending for all the goals