My thoughts from Forest Away.

[Fat Cigar]

Wonderful feeling waking up after an away win. The half a day spent on a motorway worth it.

We thoroughly deserved our win. Wasn’t a great first half, from either side, but we dominated the second, pretty much from start to finish.

We should have been 2-0 down within 10 minutes. You can see why before yesterday Forest had only scored two more goals than us. Their finishing was as hopeless as ours this season. The most pleasing thing was our reaction to going a goal down. Normally you’d expect the home team to go on and control the game, but the opposite happened. Play was scrappy in the first half, and for the first 20mins our play was reminiscent of the Brighton game. Defenders out of position, Flint not looking steady, midfield overrun. We looked lost.

But, slowly we grew in confidence and I was slightly shocked when we did score. You just don’t expect us to equalise away from home. Before the goal, Tomlin had gone on one of several brilliant mazy runs in the match. He was full of tricks yesterday. The first saw him beat four Forest players with his shot palmed behind. Was convinced he’d score. And then we did score. Probably deserved, more for the home side’s lack of impetus than anything else.

We dominated the second. You know when City are up for it because we win all the 50-50s (have said this on here before several times this season), and win back possession soon after giving it away.  Great to witness and shows a fine team spirit. Everyone working hard for each other.

Bryan (playing centre-midfield. Did well), Tomlin (a menace throughout) and Golbourne (had his poorest half for us yet in the first, but much better, his old self, in the second) combined brilliantly down the left in the second half. Pack was excellent from start to finish. What has happened to this guy since Cotterill left? He’s barely put a foot wrong.

Reid got better as the match progressed. Looked a little lost in the first half but found his mojo in the second. Helped by those around him. Freeman was a constant threat. He rarely gave the ball away, beat their players for fun, but as is always the case, it’s the final product that’s missing. His miss in the second half was as bad as the highlights show. It was so bad. He really cannot finish for toffee.

Shows you how important it is we get a goal-scoring midfielder (and a dozen new strikers...) in in the summer.

Great celebration from Flint when he scored. He enjoyed that. To be honest, for all our dominance in the second half, I always felt a goal was most likely from a set piece and a resulting Flint header. We never know quite what we’re going to do with the ball when encroaching into the opposition’s half. Few players ever take a shot, and when they do we know why they don’t! Kodjia seems at his best when the ball’s in the air. He likes a volley does ol’ Jonathan. Can’t ever see him scoring many one on ones. Which makes the goal at MK all the more satisfying.

Forest were as poor in the second half as they were down at the Gate in October. Clueless. Long balls into the box, no threat at all in the final third.

And that crowd. Didn’t hear a peep out of them. Very odd. On the walk to the ground,  I did overhear a couple of their fans slating Dougie Freedman beforehand. Don’t think many rate him, judging by social media. Their unbeaten run this calendar year seems to have meant lots of 1-1s or 1-0s. Hence, my feeling that they’d nick a 1-0 win. Love being proved wrong.

Everyone performed better second 45. Flint seemed to be playing as a centre-back and right-back. Little always looks better going forward. He doesn’t fill me with confidence as a defender. He did improve as the game wore on though.

The last 20mins was always bound to be nervy, but to be honest Forest never looked like scoring. Not sure they were even trying. Poor side.  So many of the mid-table ones are. The difference is they take their chances and are able to close games out. You score first against one of these sides, there’s no reason why you can’t go on and win. Different story against the top 4 or 5.

Forest were so slow coming forward, whereas Brighton attacked at pace and ripped us to shreds. High-tempo football, clinical finishing. That’s what we should be aiming for.

So, a great 3 points. Shame Rotherham won. We could have been 11 points clear. But, we’re getting there. Think you have to give some credit to the boss. Players responded in the second half and clearly felt this game was for the taking. A terrific comeback after Tuesday. Bring on the Welsh!

[SDBS36]

Good Read Thanks

[Xiled]

Excellent write up, thank you. Good to hear the detail on individuals and especially that Pack continues to impress.

The main Forest forum is full of moans about Dougie Freeman and their £20M+ new debt (it is spiralling out of control) They have calculated that their average salaried player is on £20k per week.

They identified that Luke Freeman was the type of player they should be signing (lower wage, from League 1) and they could do nothing against our two 'giant' centre backs. We need to sign Baker and keep him fit.

[Shtanley]

Uh, times new roman

[italian dave]

Excellent summary and my thoughts exactly. I think you answered your question about why we don't look like scoring from open play with your last but one paragraph. We just aren't direct enough. We constantly slow it down when we get a break, and Freeman for all his possession is the worst offender. He just has to stop and cut back, or do a two step over the ball. That means that the players running into the box have to stop, and - as Brighton showed - the way you score is by players running into the box and onto the ball, that's much harder to defend. We are usually static, much easier to defend. We have to get it in quicker. That aside, great performance and an unexpected win. 

[1960maaan]

Great to hear feedback like this, JB and Tomlin sounded good on the radio but I was trying sort an issue with Virgin so missed big chunks of the game. I wasn't sure what to expect after a very flat team performance Tuesday, added to that Korey out and JB playing in an unfamiliar role. Great and welcome 3 points, thanks for the write up @Fat Cigar .

[southvillekiddy]

Great report mate thanks. You are right about the way we dominated in the second half, we completely flattened them and like Cardiff away earlier in the season Forest looked like they were playing for a point. A terrific team performance.

We are starting to play with the fluency we had last year and looked dangerous from start to finish.

I have never seen us win at Forest before. Thank you City for a brilliant day out.

[awbb]

@Fat Cigar - good write up, enjoyed it.

Now, I'll counter it with some glass-half-empty stuff, from my perspective:

Though I was delighted with the performance and result, I am not sure I have read anywhere that Freeman was really responsible for their goal. Like a lot of set pieces, their delivery should have failed to beat the first man, unfortunately Luke made a hash of it. To be fair, subsequently, it was a well taken finish but when Luke was given chance to redeem himself with a similar opportunity in the second half he, unfortunately, blazed wide.

I'm not having a go, particularly, players make mistakes and we won after all, but for me, there are still minor concentration and composure issues that need addressing, whether they can be or not, I don't know, but of course hope they can. Otherwise, put someone else as first man.

Other than that, he played well and caused problems in possession, we had a LOT of joy down both flanks, though again, agree with @italian dave to an extent, Freeman is left-footed so his natural inclination when out on the right is to get it on his left peg. Analytics, being the name of the game, may make or break the argument though... We'll be training for what the statistics say is the best thing to do, rather than what looks best from where we are watching from.

On other note of caution: With Tomlin playing wide today, a couple of times he got isolated playing left-back and, bless him, had very little hope of stopping the cross or even putting the crosser under pressure. Again, perhaps less of an issue, as that positional change was almost certainly result of Korey being unavailable but that is a weakness that may be exploited in future matches. In praise of Freeman they appeared to have no such joy with him. 

Our shakiness in the first 15-20 was probably down to us playing a high line that they looked to exploit with Jamie Ward, who really should have made O'Donnell work when spooning it lamely over in the first couple of minutes (not on the highlights for some reason). Once he got crocked, they replaced him with a youngster with no discernible pace (despite being Des Walker's son), and that played completely in to our hands, Flint and Baker were rarely troubled after that.

Having said that, Nathan Baker attempted some fully-committed yet bizarre Kung-Fu style block in the first half that caused someone behind me to shout "Oh my God!" which, was precisely what I was thinking. Seemed a bit reckless and cavalier, but he didn't touch anyone, so got away with it. The gash on the pitch he left remained there for the rest of the game and I imagine, will remain for the rest of the season. On that note, having watched Villa capitulate again, pathetically on MoTD, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't want Baker next season. Their current pairing are pathetic, uninterested and clearly cashing the cheques. Okore, in particular is a funny, comedy central defender. Baker, for all his technical limitations, is fully committed and rock hard if a bit of a sick note, it sounds like an oxymoron, but I know what I mean! He will be almost certainly a first choice for them, and would be good enough along side some inevitably decent signing to get them straight back up.

Anyway, not meant as being a misery guts at all, just realistic and meant to illustrate that there is always stuff to work on!

 

 

[Garland-sweden]

Thanks for the report. We have really progressed.

[deadredfred]

26 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

Uh, times new roman

Just be thankful it's not comic sans. That would ruin my weekend.

[redfieldred]

Yep good match report. Pack was brilliant second half. He never looked like he was going to get caught in possession and constantly put the team on the front foot by drawing Forrest players in on a run then passing to players in space! Superb captain's  performance. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

What`s the betting he gets an almighty groan when one of his twenty or so passes goes slightly astray on Saturday though.

[Davefevs]

I wasn't there yesterday, so not commenting on Freeman's performance, but over the last couple of months I've heard other fans commenting on how they'd love him in their side.

I think he has been playing much better since Hull at Home, but agree that he can slow things down, cutting back onto his left etc.  I do wonder what a goal might do for him....football is strange like that.

Against BHA on Tuesday, he actually went on the outside and put a great cross into the back post with him right foot, so he can do it.  His 'assist' numbers must be increasing too.

I think a few on here are still tarring him with earlier season performances which were poor, but whilst I accept he is not as influential as last season, he is on the right upward trend.

Great result yesterday....plus the added coming from behind will give the players a lot of confidence where we don't score first in future games.

Nice report @Fat Cigar

[samo II]

2 hours ago, awbb said:

On that note, having watched Villa capitulate again, pathetically on MoTD, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't want Baker next season.

I also have been wondering about this; we really don't want to get back into the Caulker situation, where someone so crucial to our side isn't adequate replaced.

Who knows Baker's mind (or the truth of his financial situation), but I would imagine that if we are able to finish strongly, and with him a key part of that, maybe he'd see us a good place to really establish himself, as despite being a Villa academy kid, the club is a mess right now, and I don't see that changing if they go down.

But I do also think replacing him if we cannot get him in should be uppermost in the minds of our recruitment team; too often we've neglected the defence in place of other areas, and our performance against Brighton indicates a top quality centre back to partner Flint is essential this summer.

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 hours ago, deadredfred said:

Just be thankful it's not comic sans. That would ruin my weekend.

Interestingly (or perhaps not), I thought it was calibri.

Very interesting report though.

[Fat Cigar]

3 hours ago, Shtanley said:

Uh, times new roman

Yeah, wrote this on Word after I accidentally deleted my first attempt on here.

[Fat Cigar]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Excellent summary and my thoughts exactly. I think you answered your question about why we don't look like scoring from open play with your last but one paragraph. We just aren't direct enough. We constantly slow it down when we get a break, and Freeman for all his possession is the worst offender. He just has to stop and cut back, or do a two step over the ball. That means that the players running into the box have to stop, and - as Brighton showed - the way you score is by players running into the box and onto the ball, that's much harder to defend. We are usually static, much easier to defend. We have to get it in quicker. That aside, great performance and an unexpected win. 

Completely. This has been a constant theme all season. Often people shout shoot when we're near the penalty area, and there's me shouting no don't shoot! There's not much we can do with lack of pace though. Our midfield are quite a slow bunch.

[Fat Cigar]

 

3 hours ago, awbb said:

@Fat Cigar - good write up, enjoyed it.

Now, I'll counter it with some glass-half-empty stuff, from my perspective:

Though I was delighted with the performance and result, I am not sure I have read anywhere that Freeman was really responsible for their goal. Like a lot of set pieces, their delivery should have failed to beat the first man, unfortunately Luke made a hash of it. To be fair, subsequently, it was a well taken finish but when Luke was given chance to redeem himself with a similar opportunity in the second half he, unfortunately, blazed wide.

I'm not having a go, particularly, players make mistakes and we won after all, but for me, there are still minor concentration and composure issues that need addressing, whether they can be or not, I don't know, but of course hope they can. Otherwise, put someone else as first man.

Other than that, he played well and caused problems in possession, we had a LOT of joy down both flanks, though again, agree with @italian dave to an extent, Freeman is left-footed so his natural inclination when out on the right is to get it on his left peg. Analytics, being the name of the game, may make or break the argument though... We'll be training for what the statistics say is the best thing to do, rather than what looks best from where we are watching from.

On other note of caution: With Tomlin playing wide today, a couple of times he got isolated playing left-back and, bless him, had very little hope of stopping the cross or even putting the crosser under pressure. Again, perhaps less of an issue, as that positional change was almost certainly result of Korey being unavailable but that is a weakness that may be exploited in future matches. In praise of Freeman they appeared to have no such joy with him. 

Our shakiness in the first 15-20 was probably down to us playing a high line that they looked to exploit with Jamie Ward, who really should have made O'Donnell work when spooning it lamely over in the first couple of minutes (not on the highlights for some reason). Once he got crocked, they replaced him with a youngster with no discernible pace (despite being Des Walker's son), and that played completely in to our hands, Flint and Baker were rarely troubled after that.

Having said that, Nathan Baker attempted some fully-committed yet bizarre Kung-Fu style block in the first half that caused someone behind me to shout "Oh my God!" which, was precisely what I was thinking. Seemed a bit reckless and cavalier, but he didn't touch anyone, so got away with it. The gash on the pitch he left remained there for the rest of the game and I imagine, will remain for the rest of the season. On that note, having watched Villa capitulate again, pathetically on MoTD, I can't see any reason why they wouldn't want Baker next season. Their current pairing are pathetic, uninterested and clearly cashing the cheques. Okore, in particular is a funny, comedy central defender. Baker, for all his technical limitations, is fully committed and rock hard if a bit of a sick note, it sounds like an oxymoron, but I know what I mean! He will be almost certainly a first choice for them, and would be good enough along side some inevitably decent signing to get them straight back up.

Anyway, not meant as being a misery guts at all, just realistic and meant to illustrate that there is always stuff to work on!

 

 

Baker also did a cracking overhead clearance in the second half. Looked great. Talking of what happens in the summer, I was at the Lansdown Q&A and someone asked about the possibility of him signing for us. Lansdown expects him to return to Villa. Which will be a massive (but expected) loss. What a loanee he's been. The only way for him to join us permanently is for him to put in a transfer request. Not sure how wedded he is to being a Villa player again though. Judging by Lansdown's comment, I hope the board are eyeing up a replacement now.

[Fat Cigar]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I wasn't there yesterday, so not commenting on Freeman's performance, but over the last couple of months I've heard other fans commenting on how they'd love him in their side.

I think he has been playing much better since Hull at Home, but agree that he can slow things down, cutting back onto his left etc.  I do wonder what a goal might do for him....football is strange like that.

Against BHA on Tuesday, he actually went on the outside and put a great cross into the back post with him right foot, so he can do it.  His 'assist' numbers must be increasing too.

I think a few on here are still tarring him with earlier season performances which were poor, but whilst I accept he is not as influential as last season, he is on the right upward trend.

Great result yesterday....plus the added coming from behind will give the players a lot of confidence where we don't score first in future games.

Nice report @Fat Cigar

Yep, he's been excellent in the last 6 or 7 games. And he has come very close to scoring. I wanted to strangle him after that miss yesterday. He did look extremely happy when we won at the end.

[Fat Cigar]

18 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Interestingly (or perhaps not), I thought it was calibri.

Very interesting report though.

Still have the Word doc. open. It's Calibri 11!

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

Still have the Word doc. open. It's Calibri 11!

Well, there you are.

A limited football knowledge (the price of following City for more than 50 years), but, if I say so myself, something of an expert on typing fonts. 

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Well, there you are.

A limited football knowledge (the price of following City for more than 50 years), but, if I say so myself, something of an expert on typing fonts. 

I know your type. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Yesterday I thought 2nd half we were more than excellent.. our passing and movement top draw barring one thing and players confidence grew and grew to the point that Kodjia was taking the proverbial Michael... out of the Forest defence by showing his off his fancy footwork and beating players for fun, then going back and beating them again

The one minor criticism is we need to attack crosses and balls into the area more but overall we sliced Forest apart time and again, could've been 5 or 6-1 in the end up

[italian dave]

31 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

 

Baker also did a cracking overhead clearance in the second half. Looked great. Talking of what happens in the summer, I was at the Lansdown Q&A and someone asked about the possibility of him signing for us. Lansdown expects him to return to Villa. Which will be a massive (but expected) loss. What a loanee he's been. The only way for him to join us permanently is for him to put in a transfer request. Not sure how wedded he is to being a Villa player again though. Judging by Lansdown's comment, I hope the board are eyeing up a replacement now.

Yes, agree, Lansdown sounded pretty resigned to losing him, assuming Villa come down. But we were talking about that afterwards, on the way to the game, and the general feeling was that wouldn't be a bad thing is some ways. Yes, he's done a great job for us, and along with the move to a back 4, the reason for our much improved defensive record. 

There,s a 'but' though with Baker, and that's how many games he'll miss each season. His disciplinary record, and his injury record combine to make him more than a little unreliable. You just get the feeling that he'd miss a dozen games each season, and what we also benefit from huge,y is a settled back 4. 

I'll be sorry to see him go, but just think we'd need another Baker anyway.

[redfieldred]

3 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

What`s the betting he gets an almighty groan when one of his twenty or so passes goes slightly astray on Saturday though.

As sure as night follows day! It's harder to see his good work than it is with Smith who is all action. Nobody seems to groan when smith overplays or gets caught in possession, the fans blame the other players for not making themselves available!       Controversially I'm glad smith didn't play yesterday. We didn't need extra cover in the middle and i think he would have slowed up play on the break through overplay. By that I mean he would have put his foot on the ball and stopped when it would be better to lay off quickly. 

Nobody seems to notice that he does this a lot. I find it very frustrating. Of course defensively he is immense, but were he better on the ball I think premiership teams would come in for him, so perhaps it's a blessed night in disguise.