Clutching at straws a bit, but what about Forest?

[Jack Dawe]

3 points ahead of us. Effectively 4 with their GD.

 But they have to visit Rotherham, Fulham and MK. Either they do us a favour and take points of those three, or they are still catchable. They also have Brighton at home.

They've lost 7 in their last 10. Thumped at home by a team Brentford in equally poor form yesterday.

I just wonder if with all the permutations, teams around us playing each other, 2 wins and a draw will do it?

[The Original OTIB]

why not: http://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2

 

[richard.marilyn]

It's a MUST we beat Rottenham on tue..we can't let that warnock pull our ballcock and leave us drained..

[samo II]

There is always a team who has a last minute scare when it comes to relegation; until their result yesterday I'd been expecting that to be Brentford, but nothing to stop Forest also being that side, being they've the same points.

End of the day; as long as we pull out the results we need to ensure we're not one of the bottom three when the last game is played, I'm not bothered who goes.

Still don't fancy Fulham; essential result for them yesterday, but with Preston, Cardiff, Brighton and Ipswich up next (and three of those four away), they will need a serious uptick in form to avoid staying danger-close to the drop.

Interestingly their two games after that tricky run of four are Forest and Brentford, so if either of that pair do slip down, could be decisive matches.  

Mind you; Fulham's can bank on Bolton last day of the season, which if there was ever a game you wanted to close the season with in care there is any concern over staying up, it would be that one.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

I don't really understand why we are making out its do or die against Rotherham and Uncle Colin as the supposed 'boogieman'... they aren't even the relegation zone.

The standard practice is just to accumulate enough points to be safe from the last 7 games, the hardest game now gone. The last 7 games are winnable or at least to get something out of them. Rotherham (despite their form) Huddersfield at home and Blackburn/Brentford away... we should be looking to get wins

[Roe]

They'd have to lose pretty much every game. I doubt it. It's MK Dons, Fulham or Rotherham the most likely imo. Us and the few teams just above us aren't safe yet but we're not in trouble either. A defeat Tuesday and we could be close to trouble again though.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Win two and draw three from seven - not unrealistic I think. MK then need to win five from seven which isn`t going to happen.

If you read their forum there`s not one poster who thinks they`re staying up.

[The Original OTIB]

No draws under Lee J thus far. I would think 50 points will be enough. I think the draw In that will be Sheff Weds. I think we will finish on around 53 points at worst.

[RedM]

38 minutes ago, Dark Wood Covert said:

I don't really understand why we are making out its do or die against Rotherham and Uncle Colin as the supposed 'boogieman'... they aren't even the relegation zone.

The standard practice is just to accumulate enough points to be safe from the last 7 games, the hardest game now gone. The last 7 games are winnable or at least to get something out of them. Rotherham (despite their form) Huddersfield at home and Blackburn/Brentford away... we should be looking to get wins

Indeed. I think many are building up the 'must win' factor for this game. Yes of course it would be great to win but I'm thinking it will too much gloom and doom if we fail, all is not won or lost on this match. As long as we can keep pace with the team's below us we are safe and the games are running out. Put it this way, I'd rather be in our position than a few of theirs.

[spudski]

If we lose or draw against Rotherham, this forum will go into meltdown...now that is a fact ;-)

[Esmond Million's Bung]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

If we lose or draw against Rotherham, this forum will go into meltdown...now that is a fact ;-)

I suppose that depends on the circumstances of the draw or size and circumstances of the defeat, for instance a display like Saturday and it might well be a justified meltdown.

But me i'm expecting a far better performance and a positive result.

 

 

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I suppose that depends on the circumstances of the draw or size and circumstances of the defeat, for instance a display like Saturday and it might well be a justified meltdown.

But me i'm expecting a far better performance and a positive result.

 

 

I look at the Hull defeat in the same way as I look at the Watford defeat against Arsenal...also 4-0.

Hull in this league could arguably be the equivalent of Arsenal...we could arguably be like Watford in the Prem.

The differences in players and ability is massive between the top teams and average one's.

Considering the start to the season we had, and the small mainly inexperienced playing staff and the many many loans, which imo are harder to motivate in crunch games coming up ( depending what their motivation is ), then I think LJ has done remarkably well.

Granted we looked poor against Hull...but I still think we would have lost regardless of performance.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

I look at the Hull defeat in the same way as I look at the Watford defeat against Arsenal...also 4-0.

Hull in this league could arguably be the equivalent of Arsenal...we could arguably be like Watford in the Prem.

The differences in players and ability is massive between the top teams and average one's.

Considering the start to the season we had, and the small mainly inexperienced playing staff and the many many loans, which imo are harder to motivate in crunch games coming up ( depending what their motivation is ), then I think LJ has done remarkably well.

Granted we looked poor against Hull...but I still think we would have lost regardless of performance.

I agree with every word, but the capitulation was unacceptable and lack of fight in midfield was a worry.

it's the way that you lose that counts and the way we lost IMO was unacceptable, we lacked fight.

and I suspect LJ is well aware, he did his best to protect the players in his post match interview, but I suspect he to was seething, I heard him shout at one stage "come on FFS, we are better than that".

 

[Red Army 87]

4 hours ago, samo II said:

There is always a team who has a last minute scare when it comes to relegation; until their result yesterday I'd been expecting that to be Brentford, but nothing to stop Forest also being that side, being they've the same points.

End of the day; as long as we pull out the results we need to ensure we're not one of the bottom three when the last game is played, I'm not bothered who goes.

Still don't fancy Fulham; essential result for them yesterday, but with Preston, Cardiff, Brighton and Ipswich up next (and three of those four away), they will need a serious uptick in form to avoid staying danger-close to the drop.

Interestingly their two games after that tricky run of four are Forest and Brentford, so if either of that pair do slip down, could be decisive matches.  

Mind you; Fulham's can bank on Bolton last day of the season, which if there was ever a game you wanted to close the season with in care there is any concern over staying up, it would be that one.

Rotherham are away at Hull last day, not a game you want if there is still something to play for (for either team) given the way they dismantled us on Saturday.

The fixture list between now and the end of the season is really interesting with a lot of the bottom half playing each other. Plenty of twists and turns to come I expect, but I think the fact the teams around us are playing each other will keep us safe.

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree with every word, but the capitulation was unacceptable and lack of fight in midfield was a worry.

it's the way that you lose that counts and the way we lost IMO was unacceptable, we lacked fight.

and I suspect LJ is well aware, he did his best to protect the players in his post match interview, but I suspect he to was seething, I heard him shout at one stage "come on FFS, we are better than that".

 

I agree fella...and it's the Loan players i'm worried about the most. Baker got taken off at half time, because he was having a really poor game.

It's getting everyone to keep consistent in their performances every game until the end of the season.

The loans and Korey's injury are a worry.

[Lanterne Rouge]

With us and MK both having the next two at home, this week`s going to decide a lot I think. Anything between us being 12 points ahead of them and as good as safe or, God forbid, level with them and back in the shit by 5:00 next Saturday.

[BobbyC]

I see 6 of the bottom 7 teams losing on Tuesday and 8 of the bottom ten ££££££££££££££££ ?

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, BobbyC said:

I see 6 of the bottom 7 teams losing on Tuesday and 8 of the bottom ten ££££££££££££££££ ?

So is it gonna be us or Rotherham then?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree fella...and it's the Loan players i'm worried about the most. Baker got taken off at half time, because he was having a really poor game.

It's getting everyone to keep consistent in their performances every game until the end of the season.

The loans and Korey's injury are a worry.

The midfield was the worry on Saturday, every man Jack of them they were awful.

 

[havanatopia]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree with every word

Except perhaps the unavoidable fact that the Prem is a far far more level playing field than the Champs; very marginal differences in prize money in the former whereas there are huge differences in the latter. 

Thrashings are likely more usual here than up there and certainly with greater justification. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

As I was listening to the T20 yesterday and the Windies required 19 from the last 6 balls and then smashed four sixes in a row which was even more unlikely than Leicester winning the League- I realised that so long as any team has a mathematical chance of staying up or going down, no one is safe irrespective of the stats.

[Jack Dawe]

18 hours ago, spudski said:

I look at the Hull defeat in the same way as I look at the Watford defeat against Arsenal...also 4-0.

Hull in this league could arguably be the equivalent of Arsenal...we could arguably be like Watford in the Prem.

The differences in players and ability is massive between the top teams and average one's.

Considering the start to the season we had, and the small mainly inexperienced playing staff and the many many loans, which imo are harder to motivate in crunch games coming up ( depending what their motivation is ), then I think LJ has done remarkably well.

Granted we looked poor against Hull...but I still think we would have lost regardless of performance.

Hull were 2 wins in 9 going into Saturday. And it was the performance that was surprising/disappointing, more than the result really.

 

Rotherham lost 5 out of 5 of their first games v top 6 sides; their next 6 v top 6 sides is: 4 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss.

Preston began with no wins in their first 5 v top 6 sides; then 3 wins and 2 draws 0 losses.

 

Two similar clubs with nothing like the resources or players of the top six, started poorly against them but have found a way to compete over 90 mins and take points off them. The gulf in class is not insurmountable, we just haven't found a way yet.

 

On the plus side, LJ/Pembo have turned draws/losses v Bolton, MK, Charlton and Fulham into wins. Maybe it is too much too soon to expect better v the best sides but I hoped the quality and experience we have got in since SC might make a difference.

It might just have been timing at Hull, they had to start winning again at some point.

[spudski]

41 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Hull were 2 wins in 9 going into Saturday. And it was the performance that was surprising/disappointing, more than the result really.

 

Rotherham lost 5 out of 5 of their first games v top 6 sides; their next 6 v top 6 sides is: 4 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss.

Preston began with no wins in their first 5 v top 6 sides; then 3 wins and 2 draws 0 losses.

 

Two similar clubs with nothing like the resources or players of the top six, started poorly against them but have found a way to compete over 90 mins and take points off them. The gulf in class is not insurmountable, we just haven't found a way yet.

 

On the plus side, LJ/Pembo have turned draws/losses v Bolton, MK, Charlton and Fulham into wins. Maybe it is too much too soon to expect better v the best sides but I hoped the quality and experience we have got in since SC might make a difference.

It might just have been timing at Hull, they had to start winning again at some point.

You only have to look at the league, GD's and points...to see where the gulf lies JD.

I agree the performance was disappointing...but hopefully it was a blip...because up until that game, we were in promotion type form...the stats tables showed that.

Hull are a class side in this league...any result up their is a good one.

Hoping the quality and experience would make us win every game and put in an outstanding performance every game, is a big ask JD....especially considering the majority are loans.

I'm not quiet sure how using the Rotherham results works here JD...we also beat 'Boro home and away...who'd have thought. The fact Rotherham are below us shows they are have been worse than us over the whole season.

[Negan]

Don't think we'll pick up many points from our remaining away games. So the home games against Rotherham and Huddersfield are crucial. Take 6 points from them and maybe 1 or 2 points from the away games and we'll be alright. Any points from the Sheff Wed and Derby will just be a bouns.

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

You only have to look at the league, GD's and points...to see where the gulf lies JD.

I agree the performance was disappointing...but hopefully it was a blip...because up until that game, we were in promotion type form...the stats tables showed that.

Hull are a class side in this league...any result up their is a good one.

Hoping the quality and experience would make us win every game and put in an outstanding performance every game, is a big ask JD....especially considering the majority are loans.

I'm not quiet sure how using the Rotherham results works here JD...we also beat 'Boro home and away...who'd have thought. The fact Rotherham are below us shows they are have been worse than us over the whole season.

Yes spud (takes deep breath, counts to ten) the league table and the GD do indeed  tell us there is a gulf between Hull and the sides at the bottom. Over the course of a season. Thank you for that.

And yes, Rotherham are, after 39 games, worse worse than us. By one point (takes another deep breath, contemplates throwing device out of the window). We appreciate this insight.

Over 39 games, there is a gulf (we can all agree on this) but not necessarily over 90 minutes, not every time. We can see this from Rotherham's results v the top six, for example. There are other examples, including our double over Boro.

Some teams are bridging the gulf some of the time. Some have gone from failing to do this, like us, to succeeding (Rotherham, PNE). I'm simply wondering on here (and on other threads) why the four goal hammerings are continuing, despite a change of coach and an injection of quality players, and an improvement in other results and confidence.

No one is saying the new loans should win us every game or produce outstanding performances every time. I, like LJ, who thought we could go to Hull and win, was hoping for an improvement, that's all, an improved performance, not another four goal hammering. That's all. 

You are implying that the loanees might not be one part of the puzzle. Someone else quoted Steve Bruce, who said we played quite open at Hull. I think we might lack belief, having taken too many hammerings against the best sides now.

I'm not sure we're any nearer an answer, but never mind. If we can continue our good form against the bottom half sides we'll be fine, and we'll all be happy.

  

[havanatopia]

"I would give all my fame for a pot of ale, and safety."
—Boy in Henry V

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

Yes spud (takes deep breath, counts to ten) the league table and the GD do indeed  tell us there is a gulf between Hull and the sides at the bottom. Over the course of a season. Thank you for that.

And yes, Rotherham are, after 39 games, worse worse than us. By one point (takes another deep breath, contemplates throwing device out of the window). We appreciate this insight.

Over 39 games, there is a gulf (we can all agree on this) but not necessarily over 90 minutes, not every time. We can see this from Rotherham's results v the top six, for example. There are other examples, including our double over Boro.

Some teams are bridging the gulf some of the time. Some have gone from failing to do this, like us, to succeeding (Rotherham, PNE). I'm simply wondering on here (and on other threads) why the four goal hammerings are continuing, despite a change of coach and an injection of quality players, and an improvement in other results and confidence.

No one is saying the new loans should win us every game or produce outstanding performances every time. I, like LJ, who thought we could go to Hull and win, was hoping for an improvement, that's all, an improved performance, not another four goal hammering. That's all. 

You are implying that the loanees might not be one part of the puzzle. Someone else quoted Steve Bruce, who said we played quite open at Hull. I think we might lack belief, having taken too many hammerings against the best sides now.

I'm not sure we're any nearer an answer, but never mind. If we can continue our good form against the bottom half sides we'll be fine, and we'll all be happy.

  

No worries mate...I'll refrain from chatting in future...apologies for it being such a chore.