Refreshing honesty

[BRISTOL86]

How refreshing it is to see a manager be frank and honest after a game. 

I've only just seen the comments that LJ made after the game but to come out and say this:

LJ: "In the first half our pressing was good. The second half left me angry."

Is a real refreshing change. I lost count of the number of times under O'Driscoll and Cotterill (this season) where I've gone back to the car, put RB on hoping to hear a manager as angry and unhappy as me, only to be fed some bullshit about how we were unlucky/wrong type of grass/bad refs/etc etc  

I like that he's not afraid to bruise egos by telling it how he sees it. For all the good about Cotts, he was far too protective of 'his lads' and his failure to say a bad word about our performances even when they were abject got very tedious.

 

[HLR]

I like listening to Lee and his post match interviews. Makes a change hearing a gaffer tell it how it is, no punches pulled, no protecting players, deflecting blame or making silly excuses. Long may it continue.

 

 

 

[Super]

But he has to take as much of the blame as the players for last night. Wrong team picked and wrong tactics.

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Super said:

But he has to take as much of the blame as the players for last night. Wrong team picked and wrong tactics.

We'll never know what a different line-up and tactics would have done.  Maybe we'd have won or maybe we'd have lost heavily.  Certainly we were winning at half time so you've got to say we were getting it right then.  It was just the second half that fell apart. 

[Super]

11 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

We'll never know what a different line-up and tactics would have done.  Maybe we'd have won or maybe we'd have lost heavily.  Certainly we were winning at half time so you've got to say we were getting it right then.  It was just the second half that fell apart. 

Let's be honest we were second best for most of the first half, they completely destroyed us in the midfield all game.

[BCFC_Dan]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Let's be honest we were second best for most of the first half, they completely destroyed us in the midfield all game.

So what team would you have picked? I wasn't there so I don't know how they lined up or played but he seems to have picked the best midfield he could have done given the players available (Pack, Smith, Reid). The alternative would be to go with two strikers but that would surely have weakened the midfield even further. He could, I suppose, have played Williams at left back and kept Bryan in midfield but that would have made the team sit back even more.

[BRISTOL86]

23 minutes ago, Super said:

But he has to take as much of the blame as the players for last night. Wrong team picked and wrong tactics.

You can only work with what you've got, Super, unfortunately. We had the second best personnel in every department. Whichever way you arrange them that's true.

I can't think of a single player of ours that would get in that Derby first team, possibly Baker or Tomlin but even that's debatable. 

I thought the first half was a good contest in which we matched them pretty well, but I can't explain the awful first 20 of the second. 

Once LJ's built his team over the summer he has to take the flak, but as of right now he's working largely with an inherited squad which is imbalanced and lacks any real depth due to the failings of the row previous manager and board over the summer. 

[milo1111]

21 minutes ago, Super said:

But he has to take as much of the blame as the players for last night. Wrong team picked and wrong tactics.

 

3 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

So what team would you have picked? I wasn't there so I don't know how they lined up or played but he seems to have picked the best midfield he could have done given the players available (Pack, Smith, Reid). The alternative would be to go with two strikers but that would surely have weakened the midfield even further. He could, I suppose, have played Williams at left back and kept Bryan in midfield but that would have made the team sit back even more.

Super I think BCFC_dan is on the right lines. I don't think the tactics were wrong I think we have not got strong enough personnel in midfield to be able to compete with top sides in the division on a consistent basis no matter what LJ does. For all the comment on the summer fiasco I think one of the most galling things was the fact that we weren't even linked with any midfielders until Jan (not that I can remember) when we clearly needed someone to try and up the standards and provide competition with W.E. retiring .

[LondonBristolian]

28 minutes ago, Super said:

Let's be honest we were second best for most of the first half, they completely destroyed us in the midfield all game.

Indeed.  But we were playing Derby. On paper they're one of the best teams of the division and, were it not for a mid-season meltdown, they'd have been pushing for the title.  I honestly don't think there was a team we could out that would have outplayed them if they were on form, which unfortunately they were, and bar catching them on an off-day a guerilla win was always going to be our best bet.  I just don't think there is a team you could suggest that we could be certain would have got a result, or even competed better than we did.  Over time we need to improve on that of course. 

[Super]

26 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

So what team would you have picked? I wasn't there so I don't know how they lined up or played but he seems to have picked the best midfield he could have done given the players available (Pack, Smith, Reid). The alternative would be to go with two strikers but that would surely have weakened the midfield even further. He could, I suppose, have played Williams at left back and kept Bryan in midfield but that would have made the team sit back even more.

Would of had Wagstaff instead of Freeman, LJ needed to change something in the midfield.

[robin_unreliant]

Agree that it is good to hear an opinion that reflects what we see as spectators. However other managers deliberately don't do this because it is bound to affect their relationship with the players. 

Yes we don't want them complacent but equally we don't want them deciding not to play for a gaffer who slates them in public.

It will be interesting to see if this tactic continues to work. Seems to be ok so far!

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Agree that it is good to hear an opinion that reflects what we see as spectators. However other managers deliberately don't do this because it is bound to affect their relationship with the players. 

Yes we don't want them complacent but equally we don't want them deciding not to play for a gaffer who slates them in public.

It will be interesting to see if this tactic continues to work. Seems to be ok so far!

I don't think there's any issue with a manager saying he is unhappy or angry with a team's performance.  It only really becomes an issue when individuals get singled out in public. Never a good idea.  But as long as he talks about the team and not specific players, I don't think players will see an issue. 

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Super said:

But he has to take as much of the blame as the players for last night. Wrong team picked and wrong tactics.

I can't agree with this...we were outplayed for a fifteen minute period in the second half, by a team of players that have been put together at greater expense.

We didn't get battered...we were poor in the second half. We lost by one goal, to a team in the top four. It happens. It was 50-50 possession.

They've beaten Hull away 2-0 and also Brentford 3-1...anyone can beat anyone in this league.

We just had an off night...if it continued to happen, then it would cause concern...however, we are settling as a team and we are showing mid table form, which imo, is a fair reflection on the quality of personnel we have.

I never thought we'd get a result last night...even told a friend to bet on Derby to win.

LJ put out the best formation and players he had at his disposal, imo.

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

How refreshing it is to see a manager be frank and honest after a game. 

I've only just seen the comments that LJ made after the game but to come out and say this:

LJ: "In the first half our pressing was good. The second half left me angry."

Is a real refreshing change. I lost count of the number of times under O'Driscoll and Cotterill (this season) where I've gone back to the car, put RB on hoping to hear a manager as angry and unhappy as me, only to be fed some bullshit about how we were unlucky/wrong type of grass/bad refs/etc etc  

I like that he's not afraid to bruise egos by telling it how he sees it. For all the good about Cotts, he was far too protective of 'his lads' and his failure to say a bad word about our performances even when they were abject got very tedious.

 

Sounds to me like, 'it was all the players fault, what do you expect me to do about the way we played in the 2nd half, as I'm only the manager'.

He's managing the players on the pitch, if they aren't following instructions then it's his job to let them know and tell them from his position, ( 2 yards off the pitch) sorry, but to me it's a cop out from LJ.

 

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Sounds to me like, 'it was all the players fault, what do you expect me to do about the way we played in the 2nd half, as I'm only the manager'.

He's managing the players on the pitch, if they aren't following instructions then it's his job to let them know and tell them from his position, ( 2 yards off the pitch) sorry, but to me it's a cop out from LJ.

 

Much rather hear that than the drivel Cotts was spouting after another spineless, gutless 352 performance about how well we played! 

 

[Super]

41 minutes ago, spudski said:

I can't agree with this...we were outplayed for a fifteen minute period in the second half, by a team of players that have been put together at greater expense.

We didn't get battered...we were poor in the second half. We lost by one goal, to a team in the top four. It happens. It was 50-50 possession.

They've beaten Hull away 2-0 and also Brentford 3-1...anyone can beat anyone in this league.

We just had an off night...if it continued to happen, then it would cause concern...however, we are settling as a team and we are showing mid table form, which imo, is a fair reflection on the quality of personnel we have.

I never thought we'd get a result last night...even told a friend to bet on Derby to win.

LJ put out the best formation and players he had at his disposal, imo.

Is that you Cotts?

[The Coach]

2 hours ago, HLR said:

I like listening to Lee and his post match interviews. Makes a change hearing a gaffer tell it how it is, no punches pulled, no protecting players, deflecting blame or making silly excuses. Long may it continue.

 

 

 

Funny thing is. The same thing is always said when a new manager comes in. "Refreshing to hear this". The said was same when SC came in. Basically each manager has a way to choose his words. Which fans describe as "breath of fresh air".

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Is that you Cotts?

And what happens when the day comes when LJ is under pressure? He will be making the same excuses. It's pretty much a life cycle.

[HLR]

4 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

Funny thing is. The same thing is always said when a new manager comes in. "Refreshing to hear this". The said was same when SC came in. Basically each manager has a way to choose his words. Which fans describe as "breath of fresh air".

And what happens when the day comes when LJ is under pressure? He will be making the same excuses. It's pretty much a life cycle.

How many managers do you listen to in post match interviews and actually think "Yeah, that's exactly how I saw the game"? Didn't feel that with SC a lot of the time, some managers seem to see the game totally differently / come out and seemingly don't be honest about how the match panned out - just feel LJ seems genuine enough to come out and say it how it is, which I personally appreciate. Do get the sentiment of your point however

[BRISTOL86]

11 minutes ago, HLR said:

How many managers do you listen to in post match interviews and actually think "Yeah, that's exactly how I saw the game"? Didn't feel that with SC a lot of the time, some managers seem to see the game totally differently / come out and seemingly don't be honest about how the match panned out - just feel LJ seems genuine enough to come out and say it how it is, which I personally appreciate. Do get the sentiment of your point however

Exactly that. I'm not suggesing that there's anything particularly magical about LJ - too soon to tell either way - but I lost count of the number of times I lost my rag at the radio hearing SOD and then later Cotts defending awful, turgid performances and treating fans like idiots. 

[The Coach]

14 minutes ago, HLR said:

How many managers do you listen to in post match interviews and actually think "Yeah, that's exactly how I saw the game"? Didn't feel that with SC a lot of the time, some managers seem to see the game totally differently / come out and seemingly don't be honest about how the match panned out - just feel LJ seems genuine enough to come out and say it how it is, which I personally appreciate. Do get the sentiment of your point however

SC did do that though. Not every time of course when the performance and result did not go our way. Fortunately because of the position we are in LJ is able to say such things. However if we were in a position in which many fans would be calling for LJ to be sacked. I'd be pretty confident in saying he would be using excuses to back the players. Or excuses to blame the referee or opposition etc.

It's all apples and pears. And when the day does come when it seems LJ's days seem numbered. I think we would all agree people will be moaning at his excuses. Football managers all go through the same cycle. How it is eh!

[Portland Bill]

51 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Much rather hear that than the drivel Cotts was spouting after another spineless, gutless 352 performance about how well we played! 

 

I'm not making any comparison with SC, I just think that a manager is quite capable of changing tactics during a game, rather than waiting till afterwards and blaming the players!

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I'm not making any comparison with SC, I just think that a manager is quite capable of changing tactics during a game, rather than waiting till afterwards and blaming the players!

Totally agree.

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I'm not making any comparison with SC, I just think that a manager is quite capable of changing tactics during a game, rather than waiting till afterwards and blaming the players!

To be fair I don't think tactics were at fault for a calamitous 15 minutes during which we played like a bunch of arses! Too many individuals - for whatever reason - seemingly forgot how to play for a short spell.

I'd have been angry too because I have no doubt that the way we played in the first 15 of the second half bore no resemblance to what was coached into the players this week. For that brief spell of madness we literally looked like a pub side because individuals made horrendous errors. Not really sure how you can address that mid game from the sideline. 

[BCFC_Dan]

29 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I'm not making any comparison with SC, I just think that a manager is quite capable of changing tactics during a game, rather than waiting till afterwards and blaming the players!

What if there's nothing wrong with the tactics but the players aren't doing what they're supposed to?

Johnson asked them for a high-tempo, high-pressing, quick-passing game and they didn't do it. Should he have changed his tactics to require dithering, pedestrian play just so that they'd be doing what he wanted them to?

[BRISTOL86]

1 minute ago, BCFC_Dan said:

What if there's nothing wrong with the tactics but the players aren't doing what they're supposed to?

Johnson asked them for a high-tempo, high-pressing, quick-passing game and they didn't do it. Should have have changed his tactics to require dithering, pedestrian play just so that they'd be doing what he wanted them to?

People seem to want to give the players the credit when we have a good game but berate the manager when we don't. Can't work both ways!

IMO I can't see how the blame for the collapse during minutes 46-60 yesterday can be laid at anyone other than those on the pitch. 

[Alessandro]

Lots of criticism of City here and not a lot of credit for a high flying Derby team who might well go up this year.

I wasn't there last night, but by all accounts we still gave them a decent game, 2-3 suggests that. A little perspective, perhaps? The fact people are frustrated and hoped we could have done better and won shows how far we've come recently, IMO.

It wasn't that long ago, about the same time I could no longer face the depression of doing Yoshi's prediction league on here, that I never expected, nor saw us winning any games.

 

[spudski]

How can you blame LJ for Flints continual poor distribution?

How can you blame LJ for poor decision making?

You can't...you can however, watch these players make these mistakes, and if they continue doing it, you bring in new players.

He does change things...Kodijia has been a nightmare for being caught offside.

There wasn't one last night.

Like Bristol 86 said...it was a 15 minute lapse that caused our defeat.

[Robbored]

One thing that LJ has impressed me with are his interviews both pre and post match. He's very honest and tells it's it is He explains why certain decisions were made doesn't underestimate us fans knowledge of the game.

Obviously most of us have never worked in the football world and as far as I know none of us have managed a professional footbal team and so most of won't have the same in depth knowledge of professional managers do but fair play he treats us as if we do. To me that's very respectful.

[Red Skin]

Derby pressed us high up the pitch in the second putting the centre backs under pressure on the ball.  We had no answer for this tactically.  

Generally I think Flints distribution is good if he has time on the ball.  Derby didn't afford him this and consequently he looked poor.  Lots of players had a poor game by recent standards but we still only narrowly lost.  

[1960maaan]

I don't see why we would have changed team as it had served us reasonably well, plus alternatives are limited. 

As for 15 minutes, I'm not buying that either. Until we scored we were getting a chasing, they pressed brilliantly and we had no time on the ball. They challenged for everything and never switched off, both things we were guilty of at times (not doing and doing respectively).  It may have been a mix of us being bad and them good, their pressing game made our players rush and misplace passes .When anyone did hold on to the ball inevitably they were caught in possession . We had a decent spell around our goals, mainly because we scored , but we never looked comfortable with the ball. Second half was awful, the team to a man were off their game. We have had games before were passing is poor, control is poor, but it has been spells in games and not the majority of one. Because of their pressing we ended up going long, Baker and Flint are not gifted passers and movement ahead of them was lacking as we struggled.

It seems to me (if you take out a couple of games) , the top few teams look better than us by a distance. Derby conceded 7 over 2 games, Hull 5, Brighton 6 ,Burnley 6 , but then the rest on any given day we can compete with. Our squad is still thin and options limited but with a good summer I think solid mid table or even just above maybe possible, beyond that will take some magic.