Is Freeman finished?

[Monkeh]

wrong question,

Should freeman be in the first?, the answer to that is no because we have stronger players who play in his position (I include bobby reid who I think is currently a better player),

What Freeman needs to do is get his head down work hard and improve himself, if he gets picked he will be there on merit, he is young enough to improve 

[reddogkev]

Freeman is only finished at City when his contract expires without renewal, or he is sold to another club.  Neither of those situations have occurred, so no, he is not finished.

He'll still play a big part in the forthcoming season.

[JM91]

Our fans have a tendency not to recognise a good player when we have one. 

If you ask opposition fans who are biggest threat was last season, he would most likely be the answer the majority of them give.

[Super]

Out of his depth at this level.

[Super]

2 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Can't see how LJ is helping to build up his confidence by sticking him in the B team at Bath.

Get the feeling LJ prefers the ball to move quickly and this isn't Freeman's strength.

Thought he was brilliant in L1 but unfortunately see him moving on this season.

Nothing to do with his confidence he clearly isn't good enough.

[Offside]

I'm not going to write Freeman off yet. He was superb in our promotion season and that might be part of the problem - our expectations of him last season were very high which is maybe why his performances overall were disappointing. I think he's got a lot of qualities and still has a big part to play.

[Big C]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

He's 24 years old and has already smashed it at league one. Big potential.

Exactly he is only 24, just a year older than Bobby Reid. He had a tough first season, (like a lot of our players before LJ came in) but it's too early to write him off.

[Fat Cigar]

9 hours ago, cider-manc said:

Early last season every away fan I talked to talked about Freeman being a great player.

His confidence is shot and he over complicates things but there is a very good player in there somewhere. 

Players like Freeman are a dying breed in modern football, in the sense that football has become a rather conservative game with teams opting for a low risk possession pressing game over one touch risky football. There's a reason though that opposition fans would be drawn to Freeman. He looks the part, never afraid to take people on, the fancy footwork, but more often than not it comes to nothing. Away fans see him twice. We saw him 40 odd times last season and what we saw was a player playing in exactly the same way he did in League One. Personally, I don't believe Freeman is good enough to make our starting XI. He's now a squad player at best. 

His finishing is poor and his crossing inaccurate. He missed a number of goal-scoring chances. Good chances. 

The problem is Freeman plays the same game every game. He lacks a good footballing brain. He's not able to adapt. Players in the Championship are far too canny to let Freeman run rings around them. How often did the ball end up going backwards, back to where he'd started one his runs, thus undoing all the hard work? 

A lot of our fans are seduced by the skill and there's certainly no faulting his work rate. He gives it his all. But, I'm sorry, Freeman is not good enough for this level. And Johnson knows this. He gave players like him and Agard their chance in the final few matches and they did little to convince.

It no longer matters what he did in League 1, in the same way it didn't matter how good a manager Cotterill was. Both went up a level and were found wanting. It's not picking on Freeman, it's just pointing out there are others who are far better. I don't expect he'll leave yet, simply because our squad is too small. But, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go next summer.  

[Red Army 75]

When we signed freeman everyone was excited and rightly so . He was fantastic in our title winning side. And for me he was the player I thought would adjust to the championship the easiest. But he never as a lot of the players didn't. Seen a few pre season games and IMO he's looked good. But his final pass or shot is frustrating at times. I think he still has a part to play . Same as Bobby Reid does . LJ said in the QA that it will be tough telling players there not in the squad who have done well in the past . Who that will be remains to be seen

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, Spoons said:

It was a stupid question waiting for people to get on the let's slag Luke freeman band wagon as I can't slag little or Derek Williams off because I've used all my insults up!! 

Its is boring to see 'fans?' Questioning if a player is a write off in pre season when really what he meant is luke freemans rubbish etc. OP is trying to get other people to say what he thinks as he won't just say it himself. 

I believe that the great majority of City fans want him to succeed and that a lot of the criticism is actually a real frustration that there is a very good footballer in there somewhere but he hasn't found a way to unlock it yet. I hope LJ can give him the time to do it, but the pressure on LJ and the club is now really on to make visible progress toward Lansdown's stated vision for the club.

Thus Freeman may run out of time. 

[cider-manc]

16 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

Players like Freeman are a dying breed in modern football, in the sense that football has become a rather conservative game with teams opting for a low risk possession pressing game over one touch risky football. There's a reason though that opposition fans would be drawn to Freeman. He looks the part, never afraid to take people on, the fancy footwork, but more often than not it comes to nothing. Away fans see him twice. We saw him 40 odd times last season and what we saw was a player playing in exactly the same way he did in League One. Personally, I don't believe Freeman is good enough to make our starting XI. He's now a squad player at best. 

His finishing is poor and his crossing inaccurate. He missed a number of goal-scoring chances. Good chances. 

The problem is Freeman plays the same game every game. He lacks a good footballing brain. He's not able to adapt. Players in the Championship are far too canny to let Freeman run rings around them. How often did the ball end up going backwards, back to where he'd started one his runs, thus undoing all the hard work? 

A lot of our fans are seduced by the skill and there's certainly no faulting his work rate. He gives it his all. But, I'm sorry, Freeman is not good enough for this level. And Johnson knows this. He gave players like him and Agard their chance in the final few matches and they did little to convince.

It no longer matters what he did in League 1, in the same way it didn't matter how good a manager Cotterill was. Both went up a level and were found wanting. It's not picking on Freeman, it's just pointing out there are others who are far better. I don't expect he'll leave yet, simply because our squad is too small. But, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go next summer.  

My mate thinks they say it as he stood out due to his long hair.

I agree with most of what you say- I just can't understand how you can completely write him off after failing to make the step up on first attempt. He is young, has good technical ability (perhaps not a shooting.....) and his set pieces are worth at least 5 goals a season.

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

10 hours ago, Kibs said:

I'm pretty sure if we did make him available, there'd be interest from the Championship.

Hopefully he's given at least until January. We all know he didn't hit the heights expected last season but I still think he has a part to play.

One penalty miss doesn't make a bad pre-season and he'd done okay until then (in pre season)  from what I'd seen and read.

Bob Taylor had a mediocre season after promotion, we got rid and he went on to higher things. Luke should be given a bit more time, as he is clearly talented.

[Fat Cigar]

4 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

My mate thinks they say it as he stood out due to his long hair.

I agree with most of what you say- I just can't understand how you can completely write him off after failing to make the step up on first attempt. He is young, has good technical ability (perhaps not a shooting.....) and his set pieces are worth at least 5 goals a season.

 

Tied his hair back by the end of the season.

It's not really a first attempt though is it? It's 40 odd attempts.How many games does he need? I only needed to see Agard the handful of times he played to know that he's not good enough either. When a scout looks for a potential recruit, they only need to see a player a couple of times before making a judgement. 

We know what Johnson thinks of him: he's gone out and bought Brownhill and O' Dowda. He's given a new contract to Reid and Korey. That's how much he rates him. 

As I said, he's a good honest pro and I can see why some get upset by writing someone off so pivotal to our championship winning season. But, this is professional sport. A good chunk of our fans would have stuck by Cotterill. And we would have gone down if we had. No question in my mind. Two people who weren't able to step up a level and not able to do things differently. 

[Bat Fastard]

I think that Luke is a very talented player - but there are a few aspects of his game that need to be improved.  This is a challenge for both Luke and our coaches, but if they can get him to where he should be, given his talent, then we would have a really great player on our hands.  He is always high in the assists column and corners are an excellent feature.  He needs to learn to pass earlier and spend hours and hours practising finishing!  Oh...and a new haircut maybe...

[marmite]

Football is a squad game today and as such you sometimes need game changers on the bench.

If things werent going right on the pitch next season and we had the likes of LF on the bench that would say a lot about our strength in depth. I think he is more than capable in this league  and I would not want him playing against us for a rival!

 

[Major Isewater]

47 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I believe that the great majority of City fans want him to succeed and that a lot of the criticism is actually a real frustration that there is a very good footballer in there somewhere but he hasn't found a way to unlock it yet. I hope LJ can give him the time to do it, but the pressure on LJ and the club is now really on to make visible progress toward Lansdown's stated vision for the club.

Thus Freeman may run out of time. 

' Freeman may run out of time. ' 

then double back on himself and scuff one wide .

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, JM91 said:

Our fans have a tendency not to recognise a good player when we have one. 

If you ask opposition fans who are biggest threat was last season, he would most likely be the answer the majority of them give.

I think some of this was us being patronised by opposition fans last season, up until Cotts left/Tomlin arrived. 

[Major Isewater]

41 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Bob Taylor had a mediocre season after promotion, we got rid and he went on to higher things. Luke should be given a bit more time, as he is clearly talented.

God Taylor was obliged to play when his hamstrings were n't right and he duly got injured .

A bit of patience and treatment and he would have go on to continue his excellent career here instead of at West Brom where he remains a hero.

Another City cock up but to day things are different , Thank Bob .

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

Tied his hair back by the end of the season.

It's not really a first attempt though is it? It's 40 odd attempts.How many games does he need? I only needed to see Agard the handful of times he played to know that he's not good enough either. When a scout looks for a potential recruit, they only need to see a player a couple of times before making a judgement. 

We know what Johnson thinks of him: he's gone out and bought Brownhill and O' Dowda. He's given a new contract to Reid and Korey. That's how much he rates him. 

As I said, he's a good honest pro and I can see why some get upset by writing someone off so pivotal to our championship winning season. But, this is professional sport. A good chunk of our fans would have stuck by Cotterill. And we would have gone down if we had. No question in my mind. Two people who weren't able to step up a level and not able to do things differently. 

Lot to agree with you here @Fat Cigar and in your post on page one.

I would argue (sorry, debate!) that not all of his games were bad games, just not enough good games.  I know one game doesn't prove anything but the Hull game (early ko for tv) was a match where Freeman got stick, yet I thought he was our brightest player.  There was lots of stuff where posters said all he did was fall over and give the ball away all game.  After reading this I sat down on the evening and watched the whole 90 back.  He didn't fall over and gave the ball away twice...but I think people msje up their mind about a player and can't be budged.

I'm not suggesting he played anywhere near how I hoped he play last season, but not every game was a 3/10 as suggested by many posters.  Just like Flint and Smith weren't 8/10 every week.

I do think he's got a lot to do to get starting time this season, especially if O'Dowda plays off of the right, but if he does you'd think it was on merit and hopefully on the back of improved performances.

As per topic title....no.....at 24, with a super left peg (albeit mainly from corners at the mo'), he's one to persevere with.  He can come good again.  He's a tryer, puts in a shift etc.  That's normally enough for a lot of a City fans to give him the benefit....however we know what he can do, and are a bit disappointed he hasn't delivered on most of it.

Finally, playing in the hole under Cotts in a team who struggled to adapt is not the easiest either, little space, often up against the important holding midfielder, who has to do little else but shackle the floating player.  I watched him v Reading against Danny Williams.  Williams was class, and every time Freeman got half a yard, he used his body and arms, both legally and illegally (but not spotted by the ref) to stop Luke.  A tough position to play against better team in a 352 (3412), when your two other midfielders are outnumbered.  I wonder what he'd be like just playing off Kodjia, with 4 midfielders around him instead of two.

[Londoner]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he only has one year left on his deal?

 

Havent heard any talk of a renewal of other clubs being in for him....either way, he will go to a championship club no doubt about that 

[Super]

7 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he only has one year left on his deal?

 

Havent heard any talk of a renewal of other clubs being in for him....either way, he will go to a championship club no doubt about that 

Based on what?

[Nogbad the Bad]

53 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said:

Tied his hair back by the end of the season.

It's not really a first attempt though is it? It's 40 odd attempts.How many games does he need? I only needed to see Agard the handful of times he played to know that he's not good enough either. When a scout looks for a potential recruit, they only need to see a player a couple of times before making a judgement. 

We know what Johnson thinks of him: he's gone out and bought Brownhill and O' Dowda. He's given a new contract to Reid and Korey. That's how much he rates him. 

 

I think we always knew LJ was going to increase competition, but Brownhill and O'Dowda are young players with little or no experience in the Championship (Brownhill 3 apps. for PNE) and we don't know if they're thought ready to be regulars at this level. High hopes for both but they each have a lot to prove before cementing first team places. The same (not so young) goes for Bobby Reid who we know will not be a regular because LJ has stated exactly that - he will only play him in games that 'suit him'.

So these players, like BR are midfield competition for LF and others, not replacements, and interestingly the only time I have heard LJ talk directly about Freeman was for him to stress how impressed he was with him and that there is much more to come.

It's the mark of a good manager/coach to get the best out of talented players and to reinvigorate them when they';re struggling for form or confidence, not to discard them, and LF's progress this season, or lack of it, will say alot about LJ's ability to manage players and his ability to bring out the best in them.

I hope LJ sees Luke's further progression into an accomplished and consistent Championship player as a personal challenge, and one he's determined to win.

 

 

[samo II]

Like a fair few others, Freeman struggled with the step up last year, especially considering (as others have said) he was still played in a position where he was considered our primary creative player.  

He didn't shine as he did the year before, but to his credit he never hid; confidence obviously took a hit, but he's having a decent amount of game time preseason, and think he'll improve playing with less pressure on him, as the likes of O'Dowda and Tomlin (and to an extent Reid and Brownhill) will mean he's not shouldering all that creative pressure alone.

May not be a nailed on starter like he was for the best part of two seasons, but believe he'll do better this term.

[Londoner]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

Based on what?

Based on a football agent I know, I've asked him about freeman before, highly rated and Brighton interested last year amongst others.

[Super]

6 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Based on a football agent I know, I've asked him about freeman before, highly rated and Brighton interested last year amongst others.

Well they obviously didn't watch him last season then.

[Londoner]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

Well they obviously didn't watch him last season then.

Funny because a lot of away fans who I know being in London....Charlton, Brighton etc thought he was our best player and looked class.

Personally think he will be gone by season end which would be a shame.

[Super]

4 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Funny because a lot of away fans who I know being in London....Charlton, Brighton etc thought he was our best player and looked class.

Personally think he will be gone by season end which would be a shame.

In fairness we all watched him more than they did, he was terrible last season.

[Fat Cigar]

34 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I think we always knew LJ was going to increase competition, but Brownhill and O'Dowda are young players with little or no experience in the Championship (Brownhill 3 apps. for PNE) and we don't know if they're thought ready to be regulars at this level. High hopes for both but they each have a lot to prove before cementing first team places. The same (not so young) goes for Bobby Reid who we know will not be a regular because LJ has stated exactly that - he will only play him in games that 'suit him'.

So these players, like BR are midfield competition for LF and others, not replacements, and interestingly the only time I have heard LJ talk directly about Freeman was for him to stress how impressed he was with him and that there is much more to come.

It's the mark of a good manager/coach to get the best out of talented players and to reinvigorate them when they';re struggling for form or confidence, not to discard them, and LF's progress this season, or lack of it, will say alot about LJ's ability to manage players and his ability to bring out the best in them.

I hope LJ sees Luke's further progression into an accomplished and consistent Championship player as a personal challenge, and one he's determined to win.

 

 

Good points. Hope you're right. 

[adamski]

I don't think you can doubt Freeman's ability, his shooting has been woeful since we were promoted, which could well be a confidence thing and was very apparent at Bath the other night. His weakness is, in my opinion, his reading of the game and speed of footballing brain. This was clear in division 1, but, given the level of opposition was not to much of an issue as he could hold on to the ball, beat a couple and pass having made time to think, in the championship he does not have this "thinking time". How many times have we seen him running round in circles, not spotting a pass and losing possession? Or attempting to score from too far out with a poor shot that either has no power or is high-wide and in row X ? He's not bad from dead ball situations, but I'd argue Bryan, Tomlin and Matthews are better, to name but 3. Unless the LJ and co are able to speed up his decision making and vision he will never fully realise his potential that his ball skills deserve, but then again, is it not the footballing brain and vision that makes a great player, not control and fancy tricks?  

[Calculus]

Standing back a little from this debate it's good to know that we're now assembling a squad in which Freeman is seen as a weakness. Personally hope Freeman steps up but if he doesn't get in the team much it'll only be because we've now got better.