Hope everyone has calmed down now...

[RedM]

1 hour ago, samo II said:

I'm of a similar mind.

Utterly gutted about the nature of the result, but not the result itself, if that makes any sense at all.

We were comfortably bypassed there last year; they controlled the game and put us to the sword.  This year we ran them danger-close, and I'd argue they are a better team now.

I'm actually more annoyed at the Rotherham result, as they felt like 2 points dropped, and that was an improvement on last year: against Wednesday I'd have taken a draw before a ball was kicked, so can't be too down hearted.

Roll on Saturday; Derby will be desperate to score/get something, and I think our squad will be out to prove something after a tricky week.

Can't wait.

Agree. I think the team will be looking to get some points on the board on Saturday and get back on track before the break from the league at Fulham. I know LJ wasn't happy, but I can't see him making vast changes going into the match against Derby. But if we still lack concentration I would think changes will be made for Fulham, and if they work the players are likely to be keeping their places. This also depends on if we have extra time etc on Wednesday and then of course play the same team on  Saturday again, but at least it's the same for both I suppose. 

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Let's face it, had Sheffield scored the first three and then we clawed it back to 3-2 everyone would be praising a plucky performance away from home 

Yet the net result would be the same. 

That is putting a very positive spin on a terrible defeat! 

2-0 up at half time, miss a pen at 2-1, red card one minute after Wednesday go down to ten men and 15 seconds after missed penalty, goalkeeping howler for their second and shambolic defending in last few seconds of the game.

Fine, we lost 3-2 but if we can't hold a lead, score penalties and stop doing silly tackles on the halfway line, City will have a very poor season. So, IMO, however it's presented, an absolute waste of three points and the possible consequence of severe denting of confidence in the squad is very real. We all know that football teams in a league are mostly very similar in ability but the ones who drop to the bottom, do so mainly because they have no confidence.

Let's see how we do this coming Saturday. Do we give our usual helping hand to struggling sides or will we hammer the Rams?

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Let's face it, had Sheffield scored the first three and then we clawed it back to 3-2 everyone would be praising a plucky performance away from home 

Yet the net result would be the same. 

That would be dismissing the 90 minutes or so, as irrelevant… is it not important how players respond to pressure? Or how the game is played?

 

[Major Isewater]

14 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Drives me nuts as well mate, when teams defend corners they are possibly at their most vulnerable than at any other time during a game. Surely it makes sense to protect the goal as much as possible for those 10 seconds, I've never understood why teams don't do this.

Putting two players on the posts leaves one unmarked player over for the opponent, a numerical advantage at the time of the corner.

Corners are more about movement in the box in the modern game rather than brute strength for attacking the ball from a static position as in days of yore.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I tend to agree, but just to present the counter-argument, it is worth remembering that putting a man of both posts means you are leaving 2 opposition players unmarked.

1 , because , 1 is taking the corner , schoolboy error I'm afraid Chips .

[Snufflelufagus]

9 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Let's face it, had Sheffield scored the first three and then we clawed it back to 3-2 everyone would be praising a plucky performance away from home 

Yet the net result would be the same. 

At what stage would we have missed the pen and sending off happened?

[The Journalist]

I've not read any of the replies, but certainly agree with all of the points made in the initial post.

I actually posted the above at the start of August, which rings particularly true now we've lost a couple and a few people are starting to get restless. The bottom line is we're going to lose a few games this season. We're going to claw a couple back, and we're going to throw a couple away.

That's where we're at - enjoy the journey, because the frustrations and downs make the ups all the better!

[Nogbad the Bad]

28 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

I've not read any of the replies, but certainly agree with all of the points made in the initial post.

I actually posted the above at the start of August, which rings particularly true now we've lost a couple and a few people are starting to get restless. The bottom line is we're going to lose a few games this season. We're going to claw a couple back, and we're going to throw a couple away.

That's where we're at - enjoy the journey, because the frustrations and downs make the ups all the better!

Of course that's true, but even for the most resilient amongst us there were just a few too many ups and (particularly) downs against Wednesday the other night.

If we're going to have an evening of such dramatic swings in fortune, and emotion, why couldn't we have finished the evening on an 'up'? Is it too much to ask, after all that went against us, that we at least finished on a mediumly happy plateau?

Oh, well, maybe next time. If you add the late post hitting and scrambles against Rotherham, we must be in credit for a few 'ups' I'd say.

[The Journalist]

5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Of course that's true, but even for the most resilient amongst us there were just a few too many ups and (particularly) downs against Wednesday the other night.

If we're going to have an evening of such dramatic swings in fortune, and emotion, why couldn't we have finished the evening on an 'up'? Is it too much to ask, after all that went against us, that we at least finished on a mediumly happy plateau?

Oh, well, maybe next time. If you add the late post hitting and scrambles against Rotherham, we must be in credit for a few 'ups' I'd say.

Absolutely - we'll do exactly the same to someone else this season, no doubt.

[Athelwulf]

I'm a Wednesday fan, and I was at the game. Bristol were unlucky not to score the penalty, and even more unlucky that the ball rebounded straight to a Wednesday player, but that happens sometimes. I guess what really matters is not the scoreline, but rather explaining why the two halves were so different, and could things have been improved? There's more to City than just being a side who'll come to Hillsborough with the express intention of stopping the Owls playing. City have some very good players who can use the ball well, and I thought the build-up to both goals was very good. But the strongest part of Wednesday's team is the midfield, so every manager in this league will make special provision for it. Johnson succeeded in doing that very well in the first half, so I can't fault his tactics. In my view, what changed in the second half was: (a) Forestieri and Wallace both came on, and (b) Bristol went down to ten men, giving the Owls more space to play. Although Wednesday were down to ten, the absent player was a centre half. Had it been Bannan or Forestieri, then of course the impact would have been significant. Most pundits here feel that Johnson got it wrong tactically in the second half, however. The Robins strike me as an attacking team, and I'm not sure that they're made to sit back and soak up pressure. Wednesday aren't either. Attack would probably have been the best form of defence for City, rather than trying to defend the lead. For example, when Forestieri played for Watford I've seen Wednesday repeatedly try to defend against him too close to the 18-yard box, and it never worked, Wednesday suffering thrashings as a result. There has to be a plan B and an outlet to relieve the pressure.

[Red-Robbo]

5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

That would be dismissing the 90 minutes or so, as irrelevant… is it not important how players respond to pressure? Or how the game is played?

 

 

3 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

At what stage would we have missed the pen and sending off happened?

 

I'm imagining a game, not positing that scenario as an outcome on Tuesday.

And yes, it is putting a positive spin on it, because we can surely all agree that an away game we lost at the last minute, although very frustrating, is not the same as the corresponding fixture last season where we never got a look in and were tonked.

[Kingswoodactor]

47 minutes ago, Athelwulf said:

I'm a Wednesday fan, and I was at the game. Bristol were unlucky not to score the penalty, and even more unlucky that the ball rebounded straight to a Wednesday player, but that happens sometimes. I guess what really matters is not the scoreline, but rather explaining why the two halves were so different, and could things have been improved? There's more to City than just being a side who'll come to Hillsborough with the express intention of stopping the Owls playing. City have some very good players who can use the ball well, and I thought the build-up to both goals was very good. But the strongest part of Wednesday's team is the midfield, so every manager in this league will make special provision for it. Johnson succeeded in doing that very well in the first half, so I can't fault his tactics. In my view, what changed in the second half was: (a) Forestieri and Wallace both came on, and (b) Bristol went down to ten men, giving the Owls more space to play. Although Wednesday were down to ten, the absent player was a centre half. Had it been Bannan or Forestieri, then of course the impact would have been significant. Most pundits here feel that Johnson got it wrong tactically in the second half, however. The Robins strike me as an attacking team, and I'm not sure that they're made to sit back and soak up pressure. Wednesday aren't either. Attack would probably have been the best form of defence for City, rather than trying to defend the lead. For example, when Forestieri played for Watford I've seen Wednesday repeatedly try to defend against him too close to the 18-yard box, and it never worked, Wednesday suffering thrashings as a result. There has to be a plan B and an outlet to relieve the pressure.

You've literally read my mind in regards to what you said in these highlighted parts. 

When we went down to 10, our mindset seemed to be that of a team that was up against 11. Well weird. 

We've always been terrible at trying to hold on to a lead, and I think Tomlin should have been swapped for Paterson, thereby keeping an attacking threat up top to support Tammy.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

47 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

 

I'm imagining a game, not positing that scenario as an outcome on Tuesday.

And yes, it is putting a positive spin on it, because we can surely all agree that an away game we lost at the last minute, although very frustrating, is not the same as the corresponding fixture last season where we never got a look in and were tonked.

And not the same as last seasons home fixture, where we 'tonked' them and scored 2 penalties.

 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And not the same as last seasons home fixture, where we 'tonked' them and scored 2 penalties.

 

Yes, I was there. Let's hope for a repeat this season. I'd be less sanguine about Tuesday's result if we were playing at Ashton Gate instead of Hillsborough. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

Yes, I was there. Let's hope for a repeat this season. I'd be less sanguine about Tuesday's result if we were playing at Ashton Gate instead of Hillsborough. 

and I would be less sanguine about Tuesdays result had we not been 2-0 up and then pretty much committed suicide, I get all of the positives but I happen to believe probably as does LJ we threw 5 points away in 2 games and judging by his post match comments me I can't wait to see his team selection for Saturday it will either tell us that he has ripped some players a new one and told them to sort it out against Derby or maybe as many as 6 might find themselves on the bench or not even in the match day squad.

As I said I believe and I suspect that LJ believes that the days of saying well we didn't expect much from that game are well into the past.

[robin_unreliant]

I wasn't at the game but have family members who were. They both said at the time that LJ got it totally wrong when we went down to ten. They felt that CC out-witted him and tactics were to blame as much as the players. Yes individual mistakes are not the manager's fault but playing in a system that puts us under constant pressure definitely contributes.

LJ has got deserved plaudits for turning other games around but got this one wrong it seems.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I wasn't at the game but have family members who were. They both said at the time that LJ got it totally wrong when we went down to ten. They felt that CC out-witted him and tactics were to blame as much as the players. Yes individual mistakes are not the manager's fault but playing in a system that puts us under constant pressure definitely contributes.

LJ has got deserved plaudits for turning other games around but got this one wrong it seems.

Ummm, conceding from a set piece, a goal keeping howler, a missed penalty, an unnecessary lunge and a 2nd goalkeeper howler were what lost that match, of course there is also a school of thought that the substitutes may not have been carrying out the letter of LJ's law when sent on.

[JamesBCFC]

11 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

That is putting a very positive spin on a terrible defeat! 

2-0 up at half time, miss a pen at 2-1, red card one minute after Wednesday go down to ten men and 15 seconds after missed penalty, goalkeeping howler for their second and shambolic defending in last few seconds of the game.

Fine, we lost 3-2 but if we can't hold a lead, score penalties and stop doing silly tackles on the halfway line, City will have a very poor season. So, IMO, however it's presented, an absolute waste of three points and the possible consequence of severe denting of confidence in the squad is very real. We all know that football teams in a league are mostly very similar in ability but the ones who drop to the bottom, do so mainly because they have no confidence.

Let's see how we do this coming Saturday. Do we give our usual helping hand to struggling sides or will we hammer the Rams?

Only the first time we have thrown away a lead though isn't it. In every other game where we took the lead this season, we have won the game. So holding a lead isn't really an issue is it?

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Only the first time we have thrown away a lead though isn't it. In every other game where we took the lead this season, we have won the game. So holding a lead isn't really an issue is it?

Yes if you want to believe that the world started on 6th August 2016. But we did it enough last season and as a long standing supporter, we've managed to be undone by others late in games much more than we do unto them. We've dumped five points that would have helped us over the fifty point safety line much quicker and thereby allowing LJ to give more match experience to the Academy boys without any risk to us.

I also mentioned in another post about possible loss of confidence. I've now seen Tammy's interview after the defeat at Hillsborough.  He sounded very choked that we had lost in spite of his two goals. He is young and inexperienced. Will his youthful enthusiasm prevail or will he get too downhearted? Multiply Tammy by twenty other squad members and one can see how fragile confidence is at a football club.

We'll soon find out how we react with Derby on Saturday. A good reaction or more gloom? I wouldn't bet on either.  

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

Yes if you want to believe that the world started on 6th August 2016. But we did it enough last season and as a long standing supporter, we've managed to be undone by others late in games much more than we do unto them. We've dumped five points that would have helped us over the fifty point safety line much quicker and thereby allowing LJ to give more match experience to the Academy boys without any risk to us.

I also mentioned in another post about possible loss of confidence. I've now seen Tammy's interview after the defeat at Hillsborough.  He sounded very choked that we had lost in spite of his two goals. He is young and inexperienced. Will his youthful enthusiasm prevail or will he get too downhearted? Multiply Tammy by twenty other squad members and one can see how fragile confidence is at a football club.

We'll soon find out how we react with Derby on Saturday. A good reaction or more gloom? I wouldn't bet on either.  

and the majority of times that happened last season was under a different manager. We have 11-12 new signings who weren't a part of that last season either.

We have a squad of about 24, so half of them had nothing to do with any those collapses last season, and even some of the half that were, were only around under LJ when it happened much less. So looking at the relevant time period, it is not an issue.

[cidered abroad]

46 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

and the majority of times that happened last season was under a different manager. We have 11-12 new signings who weren't a part of that last season either.

We have a squad of about 24, so half of them had nothing to do with any those collapses last season, and even some of the half that were, were only around under LJ when it happened much less. So looking at the relevant time period, it is not an issue.

I admire your enthusiasm and confidence that the last two games do not signify a trend. I sincerely hope you are correct but a lifetime off supporting Bristol City's eternal under achievement means that I would end this well known phrase in a totally different way to you.

Always believe...................................................

[Major Isewater]

Two hard games away on the trot , one loss and one draw , hardly doom and gloom is it ? 

 Whatever happened to one home game followed by one away ? 

There are NO easy games in this league particularly away from home.

 We have played some lovely football in patches and when the team gels we should win more than we lose.

I would think that we will be very well placed in the January transfer window to put right any shortcomings that may be revealed within the existing squad , better placed than many of our competitors who have blown all their budget this summer or who need to move players out before bringing new ones in.

I have largely enjoyed the performances and results so far this season .