City expanding horizons

[Fiale]

17 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It might not be cheating to the letter of the law, but it is cheating the principle of honesty and fair play, and had it happened to us the other way around we would have wasted no time in saying so about the opposition.  Hiding behind the "officials are there to make decisions" is weak.  Whatever happened to just doing the right thing?  It was an extreme example, our players could have been honest, and our club didn't emerge with any credit from the incident.  Sorry but the truth hurts.

The cricketer should walk too.  To use another cricketing example, in village cricket the umpire relies on the fielders to admit when the ball has crossed the boundary line.  OK, football officials shouldn't have to rely on players to assist with making decisions, but it's a similar principle.

 

Wasn't the reason the team were told to play to the whistle because we had already fallen foul earlier in the season of putting the ball out of play, only to concede when it was not given back..... 

[Major Isewater]

I've just had my horizons surgically widened .

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Well you seem to be effective all around the world , well done .

I'll have Norwich underwater soon. That'll stop the bastards scooping our targets.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It might not be cheating to the letter of the law, but it is cheating the principle of honesty and fair play, and had it happened to us the other way around we would have wasted no time in saying so about the opposition.  Hiding behind the "officials are there to make decisions" is weak.  Whatever happened to just doing the right thing?  It was an extreme example, our players could have been honest, and our club didn't emerge with any credit from the incident.  Sorry but the truth hurts.

The cricketer should walk too.  To use another cricketing example, in village cricket the umpire relies on the fielders to admit when the ball has crossed the boundary line.  OK, football officials shouldn't have to rely on players to assist with making decisions, but it's a similar principle.

Well yes, but where do you draw this line with this? If we are awarded a corner that obviously should have been a goal kick do you expect our players to say 'thanks ref, but that should have been a goal kick so we don't want the corner'?

Or if we are given a free kick when a tackle is fair should our players turn down the free kick and tell the ref it was an honest tackle?!

When we get a throw in after the ball comes off our player last do you want that player to over rule the lino and say the throw should be given to our opposition?

How far do you want our players to go with 'just doing the right thing' when the officials make an incorrect decision?

Don't see many players from other clubs turning down the award of a throw in, a corner, a free kick, a penalty or a goal when they know they shouldn't have been given.

The notable exception was Robbie Fowler telling the ref it was a fair tackle when he was felled in the box against Arsenal but you see Haley's Comet more often than players doing that....

[ChippenhamRed]

I think you can draw the line quite easily - when the opposition score a perfectly valid goal. That has a direct impact on the outcome of the match, everything else just has the potential to alter the outcome. Of course you can't practically argue every decision on principle, but I think you can make the distinction between this and other more regular refereeing errors.

(Tagging you @BS4 on Tour... as I forgot to quote you!)

[Drew Peacock]

49 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think you can draw the line quite easily - when the opposition score a perfectly valid goal.

Like the goal we had ruled out incorrectly for offside?

[ChippenhamRed]

6 minutes ago, Drew Peacock said:

Like the goal we had ruled out incorrectly for offside?

No, clearly not. Such misjudgements are a part of the game, for better or worse. I still think you can make a distinction between that and the Sears goal. Apart from anything else, the players wouldn't know for certain if the offside decision was correct or not. But they knew Sears shot had hit the back of the net, and they knew a goal kick was awarded. That doesn't even make sense.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

12 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Wasn't there a snooker club called Riley's? 

That was the table makers!

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think you can draw the line quite easily - when the opposition score a perfectly valid goal. That has a direct impact on the outcome of the match, everything else just has the potential to alter the outcome. Of course you can't practically argue every decision on principle, but I think you can make the distinction between this and other more regular refereeing errors.

(Tagging you @BS4 on Tour... as I forgot to quote you!)

With respect you are talking complete bollocks. GJ previously at Yeovil allowed the opposition to score due to a freak goal. Not required against Palace as the linesman called the goal offside and Warnock is a c***. Please check your facts before posting

[ChippenhamRed]

24 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

With respect you are talking complete bollocks. GJ previously at Yeovil allowed the opposition to score due to a freak goal. Not required against Palace as the linesman called the goal offside and Warnock is a c***. Please check your facts before posting

Seriously, is there really any need to be quite so rude?

Show me where the linesman is holding his flag aloft for offside in these two images, the first in the immediate aftermath of the goal. Please check your facts before posting.

 

[ChippenhamRed]

 

[ChippenhamRed]

30 minutes ago, cynic said:

Kid is 100% correct - linesman definitely raised his flag.

I was there and I saw it.

But it was still very amusing to see Colins reaction and his orange keeper.

 

Do you really think if it was explained away as easily as an offside flag, something that happens all the time with disallowed goals, it would have become such an infamous incident? And why do none of the reports make reference to an offside flag (google it)? And how do you explain the video evidence which clearly shows there was no flag?

PS - I was also there, not that it's relevant.

[ChippenhamRed]

8 minutes ago, cynic said:

I didn't say he raised his flag for offside - I didn't ask him.

But he raised his flag - I saw it.

Couldn't give a toss about your blurry video "evidence" - means sweet FA to me as I know what I saw.

Argue all you like - you are wrong.

 

Classy response cynic.

By the way, you said Kid was "100% correct", and he said the linesman flagged for offside. Make your mind up.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Classy response cynic.

By the way, you said Kid was "100% correct", and he said the linesman flagged for offside. Make your mind up.

Stop being so pedantic, you are wrong. Go away. Jesus.

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Stop being so pedantic, you are wrong. Go away. Jesus.

@ChippenhamRed is Jesus?!

You learn something new every day

[ChippenhamRed]

29 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Stop being so pedantic, you are wrong. Go away. Jesus.

So "I'm wrong", yet you can offer no reasons why the video evidence doesn't back up your claims, none of the reports make any reference to offside, it wasn't put forward as an explanation at the time, and the incident has become infamous as a "ghost goal". And all you can do is resort to personal insults. I'm done.

[Bar BS3]

10 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It might not be cheating to the letter of the law, but it is cheating the principle of honesty and fair play, and had it happened to us the other way around we would have wasted no time in saying so about the opposition.  Hiding behind the "officials are there to make decisions" is weak.  Whatever happened to just doing the right thing?  It was an extreme example, our players could have been honest, and our club didn't emerge with any credit from the incident.  Sorry but the truth hurts.

The cricketer should walk too.  To use another cricketing example, in village cricket the umpire relies on the fielders to admit when the ball has crossed the boundary line.  OK, football officials shouldn't have to rely on players to assist with making decisions, but it's a similar principle.

So I suspect that had that happened, the Palace players would have said to the ref.."no, no ref. We appreciate the gesture, but we really must alert you to the foul in the build up. We can't possibly accept their generous offer. Oh, and don't worry ref, if you incorrectly rule out a goal of theirs for offside later in the game, don't worry, we'll be sure to let you know and insist on the awarding of a goal for them"

Dont be so naive..! 

[ChippenhamRed]

26 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So I suspect that had that happened, the Palace players would have said to the ref.."no, no ref. We appreciate the gesture, but we really must alert you to the foul in the build up. We can't possibly accept their generous offer. Oh, and don't worry ref, if you incorrectly rule out a goal of theirs for offside later in the game, don't worry, we'll be sure to let you know and insist on the awarding of a goal for them"

Dont be so naive..! 

Already discussed this later in the thread. See posts 65 and 67.

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Already discussed this later in the thread. See posts 65 and 67.

I'm certainly not bothered enough to go looking back though the thread. 

 

[TV Tom]

7 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Already discussed this later in the thread. See posts 65 and 67.

It's a nice thought Chippenham but it 'ain't going to happen, even in the gentlemens game of cricket batsmen don't walk when they know they've nicked it to the keeper, not sure why some are so aggressive to you though just because you have a different opinion

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, harrys said:

It's a nice thought Chippenham but it 'ain't going to happen, even in the gentlemens game of cricket batsmen don't walk when they know they've nicked it to the keeper, not sure why some are so aggressive to you though just because you have a different opinion

Thanks Harry and I appreciate the support. I do realise that I'm an idealist and it's not realistic. Saying how I think things should be (e.g. the batsman should walk) doesn't mean that's how I would expect them to be in the real world - I'm not that naive! It was more a point of principle.

I'm going to take a break from the forum for a while now.

[TV Tom]

37 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Thanks Harry and I appreciate the support. I do realise that I'm an idealist and it's not realistic. Saying how I think things should be (e.g. the batsman should walk) doesn't mean that's how I would expect them to be in the real world - I'm not that naive! It was more a point of principle.

I'm going to take a break from the forum for a while now.

As someone once said "Don't let the bastards get you down"

[Renaissance Williams]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Thanks Harry and I appreciate the support. I do realise that I'm an idealist and it's not realistic. Saying how I think things should be (e.g. the batsman should walk) doesn't mean that's how I would expect them to be in the real world - I'm not that naive! It was more a point of principle.

I'm going to take a break from the forum for a while now.

Don't go - thicker skin required, that's all. Whilst I applaud the ideological thrust of your argument, the pragmatic case is that so many unfair decisions go against any team that you have to take the few that go for you to redress the balance.

That said, the Robbie Fowler example of refusing to have someone red carded for a fair tackle does make you wish that we could play with a bit more dignity sometimes. Maybe refusing to dive would be a good unilateral starting point?

[cidered abroad]

When I were a lad, when men were men and women were grateful, a batsman would always walk if they knew they had nicked it and fielders would not claim a catch if they knew it had bounced as they caught it.

Footballers would only pinch a yard at throw ins, a few inches at corners and goal kicks, maybe the odd moan to a ref for a controversial decision and certainly no mass attack on the ref.

Rugby players never spoke to the ref during the game although the front rows waged their own private war in the scrums.

Kids walked to school in all weathers and so on. But all that has changed and the financial benefits of winning are so different that nobody behaves as in former times. Would Warnock have admitted the goal to the referee if it had happened at the other end of the pitch? It would be nice to get back a modicum of honesty but in today's grab it all and cheat society it won't happen.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

As someone once said "Don't let the bastards get you down"

 

46 minutes ago, Renaissance Dolman said:

Don't go - thicker skin required, that's all. Whilst I applaud the ideological thrust of your argument, the pragmatic case is that so many unfair decisions go against any team that you have to take the few that go for you to redress the balance.

That said, the Robbie Fowler example of refusing to have someone red carded for a fair tackle does make you wish that we could play with a bit more dignity sometimes. Maybe refusing to dive would be a good unilateral starting point?

Thanks again for the support - one last comment from me before I take that break.

I enjoy debate and discussion on here and I'm quite happy to listen to others views or indeed be proven wrong. But when you present a reasonable argument and the only thing people can say in return is "total bollocks", "you're wrong" and "go away", without any apparent ability to substantiate their counter-argument with anything more than personal abuse...well, why would I want to waste any more time on here?

Hope everyone going today enjoys the game.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

 

Thanks again for the support - one last comment from me before I take that break.

I enjoy debate and discussion on here and I'm quite happy to listen to others views or indeed be proven wrong. But when you present a reasonable argument and the only thing people can say in return is "total bollocks", "you're wrong" and "go away", without any apparent ability to substantiate their counter-argument with anything more than personal abuse...well, why would I want to waste any more time on here?

Hope everyone going today enjoys the game.

Put those who you don't want to communicate with on ' ignore ' and don't let them spoil your pleasure.

You'll gain nothing by flouncing off , either go or stay , you don't have to justify yourself to anyone on here .

[AshtonGreat]

On 15/09/2016 at 21:02, 8menhadadream said:

It's not, it's really not!  Glyn was great but..

Hair by Diego Forlan

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

31 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Put those who you don't want to communicate with on ' ignore ' and don't let them spoil your pleasure.

You'll gain nothing by flouncing off , either go or stay , you don't have to justify yourself to anyone on here .

The people who I would most like to do this to are the same who give me the biggest laughs albeit for the wrong reasons....

I think the secret on OTIB ( maybe all forums but this is the only one I've ever posted on) is to not bite even when there's a scrummy juicy fat worm dangled in front of you but if you do then choose a good moment to walk away. There's always another thread and no one ever remembers what you posted anyway. 

As for @ChippenhamRed -I actually completely agree with his point about fair play etc but this was a goal against Warnock who,imo, is an odious character and when I saw the goal go in and not register- I found it more like Divine intervention than unsportsmanlike. I was at a charity function later that night and chatted to SL about the incident. He just smiled and said" it couldn't happen to a nicer man".

 

[Phileas Fogg]

25 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The people who I would most like to do this to are the same who give me the biggest laughs albeit for the wrong reasons....

I think the secret on OTIB ( maybe all forums but this is the only one I've ever posted on) is to not bite even when there's a scrummy juicy fat worm dangled in front of you but if you do then choose a good moment to walk away. There's always another thread and no one ever remembers what you posted anyway. 

As for @ChippenhamRed -I actually completely agree with his point about fair play etc but this was a goal against Warnock who,imo, is an odious character and when I saw the goal go in and not register- I found it more like Divine intervention than unsportsmanlike. I was at a charity function later that night and chatted to SL about the incident. He just smiled and said" it couldn't happen to a nicer man".

 

Yeah, bet that guy who posted the "Matt Smith is awful" thread is glad nobody remembers who posted what 

[Renaissance Williams]

20 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

The people who I would most like to do this to are the same who give me the biggest laughs albeit for the wrong reasons....

I think the secret on OTIB ( maybe all forums but this is the only one I've ever posted on) is to not bite even when there's a scrummy juicy fat worm dangled in front of you but if you do then choose a good moment to walk away. There's always another thread and no one ever remembers what you posted anyway. 

As for @ChippenhamRed -I actually completely agree with his point about fair play etc but this was a goal against Warnock who,imo, is an odious character and when I saw the goal go in and not register- I found it more like Divine intervention than unsportsmanlike. I was at a charity function later that night and chatted to SL about the incident. He just smiled and said" it couldn't happen to a nicer man".

 

True - the darker back alleys of OTIB are worth an occasional skip through - rather like the bad old days when you went to Bristol Zoo to laugh at the monkey scratching its a**e rather than learning about global warming......

And yesterday's game made me rethink the moral high ground argument a little - no way did we deserve three points but I'd have loved to have got them.....