Mr Engvall

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Red Thai said:

I did say were, not are.

Apparently, he came here injured,  went away with Sweden and picked up another injury, and is ok now, but not match/ Championship ready.

I was just interested as to what the injuries were. 

 

Came in with a knee strain I think then picked up a slight muscle injury on international duty in September I think. So that was another two weeks after the break which took us to mid October. Then another break a few weeks later. Plus the Swedish season was already well underway so his initial injury was kind of mid season for him. You could point to a number of factors to why he hasn't played so much. Truth is, Tammy'a form has allowed us to take it slow with him which will only benefit him. He'll come good when he's ready I reckon. 

[Robbored]

3 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

So Gary Johnson is an idiot because he signed a player based upon his scoring a goal on TV and not properly scouting him.

Then when it is pointed out that he and the chief scout, his brother, had in fact properly scouted him prior to signing him he is still an idiot.

Fact is GJ and his taxi driver brother ( I'm loathe to call him chief scout ) signed some pretty crap players during their stay at City, particularly loan signings. 

Anyone remember Stern John? ..........

But, hey! That was years ago.

Now we have an up and coming young manager, a top well connected Chief scout and a top CEO in Mark Ashton.

[cidered abroad]

Engvall along with Brownhill, Moore, de Girolamo, Jonny Smith, Lucic and McCoulsky are players with potential for the future. None have set the world alight yet and all have been in the side for the odd game or two with cameo appearances off the bench.

We are trying to build a squad for the future and only Magnusson, Matthews, Paterson, O'Neil and Tomlin as permanent signings were regarded as those who would be selected for the majority of matches. Even O'Dowda could fall into the first group although he has had more games/part games than the others.

That is why we are still starting and finishing each game with seven or eight of those already here in the second half of last season and that's why we are still getting inconsistent results. I'm as unhappy as everyone else that we've lost five games in the last seven but now that I've cooled down a bit from Saturday afternoon, we only need eight wins to stay up and add five or six draws and we would finish the season, comfortably around halfway.

So at present, what is there to be so stroppy about?  

[robinreliant]

As has been said by others he is only 20 and Imo and others he is not ready yet. Needs to be given time to adjust.

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Fact is GJ and his taxi driver brother ( I'm loathe to call him chief scout ) signed some pretty crap players during their stay at City, particularly loan signings. 

Anyone remember Stern John? ..........

But, hey! That was years ago.

Now we have an up and coming young manager, a top well connected Chief scout and a top CEO in Mark Ashton.

In terms of league position it was also our most successful period in recent years. Lots of players came and went during the FIVE YEARS he was here (so he must've been doing something right given manager turnover since).

I see you've chosen to leave out the fantastic bargains like Marvin Elliot, Bradley Orr, and Adriano Basso to name but three.

Also the players we turned a good profit for like Nick Carle.

He also signed Nicky Maynard who was a very good signing for us and should've had a far better career.

I don't even know why I've bothered replying to you on this topic as you're ridiculously blinkered and obviously triggered by those memories of that showdown with GJ. I just think that GJ was a successful and popular manager here, it was the most I've enjoyed going to AG in all the time I've been going (about 12 years) and I wish you'd show him a bit more respect. He's a good man and bought us lots of happy times.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It was also our most successful period in recent years. Lots of players came and went during the FIVE YEARS he was here (so he must've been doing something right given manager turnover since).

I see you've chosen to leave out the fantastic bargains like Marvin Elliot, Bradley Orr, and Adriano Basso to name but three.

Also the players we turned a good profit for like Nick Carle.

He also signed Nicky Maynard who was a very good signing for us and should've had a far better career.

I don't even know why I've bothered replying to you on this topic as you're ridiculously blinkered and obviously triggered by those memories of that showdown with GJ. I just think that GJ was a successful and popular manager here, it was the most I've enjoyed going to AG in all the time I've been going (about 12 years) and I wish you'd show him a bit more respect. He's a good man and bought us lots of happy times.

Z z z z z zz .     

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Z z z z z zz .     

No constructive reply or any answer to the points I countered yours with. You spent more time beating your own specially developed filter to even respond at all. I'll take that as a win. 

[View from the Dolman]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Fact is GJ and his taxi driver brother ( I'm loathe to call him chief scout ) signed some pretty crap players during their stay at City, particularly loan signings. 

Anyone remember Stern John? ..........

So Stern John was a crap player? And everyone saying he was a proven Championship player in this thread was wrong.

And who was it who said that his "goalscoring record is impressive enough". Oh. That was you.

And somebody said at the time that he was more of a goal threat than Dele Adebola. Oh. That was you too. In fact, you seemed to be advocating his role in the team.

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

In terms of league position it was also our most successful period in recent years. Lots of players came and went during the FIVE YEARS he was here (so he must've been doing something right given manager turnover since).

I see you've chosen to leave out the fantastic bargains like Marvin Elliot, Bradley Orr, and Adriano Basso to name but three.

Also the players we turned a good profit for like Nick Carle.

He also signed Nicky Maynard who was a very good signing for us and should've had a far better career.

I don't even know why I've bothered replying to you on this topic as you're ridiculously blinkered and obviously triggered by those memories of that showdown with GJ. I just think that GJ was a successful and popular manager here, it was the most I've enjoyed going to AG in all the time I've been going (about 12 years) and I wish you'd show him a bit more respect. He's a good man and bought us lots of happy times.

Well said PF

Ive been going 46 or so and save our Promotion to and years in Div 1 and for the football played and results Cotts double season it's up there for me too

Not sure any manager has ever had such a rapport with the fans (well one exception) in all my years

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

So Stern John was a crap player? And everyone saying he was a proven Championship player in this thread was wrong.

And who was it who said that his "goalscoring record is impressive enough". Oh. That was you.

And somebody said at the time that he was more of a goal threat than Dele Adebola. Oh. That was you too. In fact, you seemed to be advocating his role in the team.

ROFLMAO

priceless

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Well said PF

Ive been going 46 or so and save our Promotion to and years in Div 1 and for the football played and results Cotts double season it's up there for me too

Not sure any manager has ever had such a rapport with the fans (well one exception) in all my years

Really happy memories of those times, the promotion season, those last ditch 2-2 draws (Doncaster away?) with McCombe getting equalisers, Middlesbrough 2-2 at home in the FA cup, QPR at home first game in championship, Charlton away when we went top of the league, Norwich at home Brooker last minute winner.. I could go on for ages.. all great times.

I enjoyed the double winning season but it didn't feel the same. Maybe it's because we were getting promoted from that league which we knew we were too big for.. can't quite place why I felt like that. AG being renovated didn't help. 

Maybe Lee can improve on those good times. He's got his dad's charm and could easily develop as good rapport I think. Really hope so because he seems a great guy too like his dad.

[Red Thai]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Came in with a knee strain I think then picked up a slight muscle injury on international duty in September I think. So that was another two weeks after the break which took us to mid October. Then another break a few weeks later. Plus the Swedish season was already well underway so his initial injury was kind of mid season for him. You could point to a number of factors to why he hasn't played so much. Truth is, Tammy'a form has allowed us to take it slow with him which will only benefit him. He'll come good when he's ready I reckon. 

Nice one, thanks for the info.

Hopefully he's over the niggles now, and with a bit of careful nurturing will start to show what he can do.  

[Fiale]

It is strange that even when chasing a goal, with a knackered Tammy that we still do not bring him on as fresh legs for at least 20 mins to try and get a goal... He looked pretty decent against Hull, though has been subbed in the U23 games he has played in. I guess time will tell.

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Magnusson came as a player, 3 years older than Engvall with tonnes more experience, having played outside of his native country for a lot of that and learning at a club with a history of being one of the best in Europe in a defensive sense.

Engvall came as a player, barely 20 and as a fringe player in a weaker division. 

Notice any difference there?

Again highest scoring season is 20, how many seasons has he had in his career, 1-2? How many minutes did he play in those seasons? How many games did he start, was he being played as the goal scorer or the creator? 

Other than Fulham (just after he had played against them in a midweek game in which he was returning from injury) when has he been available and we were winning comfortably?

I don't recall ANY games since then that fit that description. And yes he has played in the u23s/reserves.

Tonnes more experience? He played 33 games less then Engvall when he joined. 23 is still nothing for a CB. 

If he can't be involved in a side involved in a seriously weaker league, age apart, it worries me. He scored 16 goals in 4 years at his old club. You can argue that he wasn't 'involved' - but he was involved in c. 20 games the past 3 seasons in Sweden.

If we're to progress as a club we need players to be more of a Hodour mould, than a Gustav one. If he can not push to even come off the bench in the 80th minute after 4 months then it's going to take more work than even LJ probably expected. Pointing at injuries and lack of match fitness is the go-to, why is Matthew 'not match fit' but playing 60 mins to get match fit, and Engval 'not match fit' but not playing?

This league is so cut throat it's unreal, can't afford to spend £2.5m on a player that is this slow to adapt. We spent £2.25m on Nicky Maynard, 2 years younger, who scored 11 in his first season and 20 in his next.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, cityloyal473 said:

A historically low scoring, untested, not ready for the championship, injured striker - what could possibly go wrong.

Would have been truly dire had he cost 2mil+....

[BCFC_Dan]

13 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Tonnes more experience? He played 33 games less then Engvall when he joined. 23 is still nothing for a CB. 

If he can't be involved in a side involved in a seriously weaker league, age apart, it worries me. He scored 16 goals in 4 years at his old club. You can argue that he wasn't 'involved' - but he was involved in c. 20 games the past 3 seasons in Sweden.

If we're to progress as a club we need players to be more of a Hodour mould, than a Gustav one. If he can not push to even come off the bench in the 80th minute after 4 months then it's going to take more work than even LJ probably expected. Pointing at injuries and lack of match fitness is the go-to, why is Matthew 'not match fit' but playing 60 mins to get match fit, and Engval 'not match fit' but not playing?

This league is so cut throat it's unreal, can't afford to spend £2.5m on a player that is this slow to adapt. We spent £2.25m on Nicky Maynard, 2 years younger, who scored 11 in his first season and 20 in his next.

Once again.

We did not pay £2.5m for him. If that figure means anything it will be the most we'll pay if all add-on clauses are activated. We'll have paid around half that amount.

Maynard had grown up in English football. There's no valid comparison to be made.

Magnusson had spent 3 years in Italy before he moved. Yes Italy is not England but he had already gotten used to being away from home. Engvall probably hasn't.

Matthews isn't fit but he knows the English league and the English game and he's settled here. A few bad games isn't going to break him, whereas it could be very bad for Engvall's confidence.

Finally, we can afford to spend £2.5m (£1.25m) on a player who needs time because we have an owner who is willing to invest for the future. He's young, so his wages will be low, and if it works out well we'll make a big profit on him. Spending £x amount on Engvall in no way prevented us from signing another striker who was likely to be ready now. The fact that none of those strikers were available in our price range prevented that. It's an entirely separate issue.

[JamesBCFC]

27 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Tonnes more experience? He played 33 games less then Engvall when he joined. 23 is still nothing for a CB. 

If he can't be involved in a side involved in a seriously weaker league, age apart, it worries me. He scored 16 goals in 4 years at his old club. You can argue that he wasn't 'involved' - but he was involved in c. 20 games the past 3 seasons in Sweden.

If we're to progress as a club we need players to be more of a Hodour mould, than a Gustav one. If he can not push to even come off the bench in the 80th minute after 4 months then it's going to take more work than even LJ probably expected. Pointing at injuries and lack of match fitness is the go-to, why is Matthew 'not match fit' but playing 60 mins to get match fit, and Engval 'not match fit' but not playing?

This league is so cut throat it's unreal, can't afford to spend £2.5m on a player that is this slow to adapt. We spent £2.25m on Nicky Maynard, 2 years younger, who scored 11 in his first season and 20 in his next.

So he got 8 goals in a season during a time he averaged less than 8 games per season, what a terrible thing!

In senior careers Magnusson had played just 1 more at the time of joining, so I was wrong about tonnes more experience, however, Engvalls 33 more that you claim are courtesy of his youth career before Gothenburg, not senior football which  is what we want no?

Yet again the fitness, Engvalls come back from 2 injuries, Matthews had one and his previous issue was his own fault in not keeping fit, Matthews is also more important to us as a player (seeing as RB is our weak spot) and knows this division having had plenty of games at this level before. So that, and the point below are the reasons why Matthews is being pushed quicker to be fully fit.

Once again (about the 5th time I've had to spell this out for people) bringing on a player who is not hugely different to Tammy (though not identical) isn't going to make as much of a difference as bringing on a totally different style to Tammy (Wilbraham) to provide an alternative option. Very simple idea there, surprised it's had to be said so many times.

Finally, WE HAVEN'T SPENT £2.5 MILLION ON ENGVALL.

The fee was around £1.7m, which when buying a player at the relative start of his career, with international experience throughout the youth levels, plus a handful in the senior squad (though as our Swedish fans have explained those are during a time where the majority of the first squad aren't available) from a club that is playing in Europe, then a fee of £1.7m is relative peanuts, regardless of time to adapt. Even then he hasn't taken a long time to adapt. Many players coming from abroad take over a season to adapt, Engvall has been here less than 3 months and has been injured for at least half that time, played for around 80 minutes altogether, looking very bright against a Premier League side for a lot of that time. That suggests he won't take a huge time to adapt, but rushing a player to play, when he may not necessarily be completely ready will not help our position in the short or long term.

[JamesBCFC]

5 minutes ago, cynic said:

He's 20.Calling him out for not having a better scoring record from the age of 15 or 16 in a good league in Sweden is a bit dumb.

Where did 2.5m come from anyway ?

 

£2.5m I believe is the fee if all add on clauses are met, much like the £15m Kodjia fee.

As far as I'm concerned a 1 in 4 record as a teenager (before one of his detractors points out he isn't a teenager I will point out he was at the time), in what's likely (though I haven't checked) to be mostly sub appearances is pretty decent

[Phileas Fogg]

46 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Tonnes more experience? He played 33 games less then Engvall when he joined. 23 is still nothing for a CB. 

If he can't be involved in a side involved in a seriously weaker league, age apart, it worries me. He scored 16 goals in 4 years at his old club. You can argue that he wasn't 'involved' - but he was involved in c. 20 games the past 3 seasons in Sweden.

If we're to progress as a club we need players to be more of a Hodour mould, than a Gustav one. If he can not push to even come off the bench in the 80th minute after 4 months then it's going to take more work than even LJ probably expected. Pointing at injuries and lack of match fitness is the go-to, why is Matthew 'not match fit' but playing 60 mins to get match fit, and Engval 'not match fit' but not playing?

This league is so cut throat it's unreal, can't afford to spend £2.5m on a player that is this slow to adapt. We spent £2.25m on Nicky Maynard, 2 years younger, who scored 11 in his first season and 20 in his next.

In fairness the inflation in transfer fees since then is absolutely enormous, so much so it's almost incomparable. £2.5m we spent on Maynard is the equivalent of about £5-6m in today's money. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

35 minutes ago, BCFC_Dan said:

Once again.

We did not pay £2.5m for him. If that figure means anything it will be the most we'll pay if all add-on clauses are activated. We'll have paid around half that amount.

Maynard had grown up in English football. There's no valid comparison to be made.

Magnusson had spent 3 years in Italy before he moved. Yes Italy is not England but he had already gotten used to being away from home. Engvall probably hasn't.

Matthews isn't fit but he knows the English league and the English game and he's settled here. A few bad games isn't going to break him, whereas it could be very bad for Engvall's confidence.

Finally, we can afford to spend £2.5m (£1.25m) on a player who needs time because we have an owner who is willing to invest for the future. He's young, so his wages will be low, and if it works out well we'll make a big profit on him. Spending £x amount on Engvall in no way prevented us from signing another striker who was likely to be ready now. The fact that none of those strikers were available in our price range prevented that. It's an entirely separate issue.

Thought LJ (Might have been SL) said on RB that he was over 2 million 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, cynic said:

So it isn't 2.5m then.

We paid under 1.75m as I understand it.

As you say, he's still a kid who has been capped by his country and, for me, 1.75m represents good value once he gets up and running - which he will do.

 

Fully agree.

I was thinking it's mad people have written him off after circa 90 minutes of game time, where he didn't look too bad, but then I remembered when I remembered the threads before we signed Wilbraham.

[View from the Dolman]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Thought LJ (Might have been SL) said on RB that he was over 2 million 

In the same way that people refer to Jimmy Kodjia as £15m?

[Ivorguy]

Oh dear

Feel sorry for the kid if he reads much on this thread

Ignorance rules, ok! Well, no actually. Be patient everyone

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

In the same way that people refer to Jimmy Kodjia as £15m?

Not a clue VFD - Unless somebody on here is very well connected with or in a high position at AG none of us know exact details - just going by what was said by either LJ or SL - can't be sure which it was 

[The Journalist]

16 hours ago, Robbored said:

I'm not admitting that at all.

The information going around at the time of Styvars signing was that it was on the back of the goal he scored against Villa and that no-one at City had actually Sen him play.

I don't remember GJ saying on Player that he and the taxi driver coach had watched him live but if he did say that then the quote Mandy Rice Davies  "He would say that, wouldn't he?"

Like the time he asked you in person whether you were Robbered on OTIB and you denied it?

"You would say that, wouldn't you?"

[Judda]

On Monday, November 21, 2016 at 23:19, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

just out of interest- at what price would he have had to have cost for you not to have that concern?

 

Maybe 500k?

I know I am not a football manager  But  £2m !!! That is a lot of cash for someone who is unproven...

 

Don't get me wrong. I am fully behind him and thought his touch looked amazing in the hull game...

[View from the Dolman]

Interesting comment from LJ in his press conference that Gustav caught the eye of a Premier League club staff member in training...