Professional footballers - I don't get why....

[Jack Dawe]

....they dive, feign injury, and cheat from start to finish, trying to get an opponent booked or sent off. But then, when two opposing players - Preston ones today - are having a pop at each other, they - Wednesday ones today - try and pull the PNE players apart. To stop them hurting each other and possibly getting sent off?

What's that about?

 

[Kodjias Wrist]

Anything it takes to win right? I would dive if it meant city getting a penalty, you have to level the playing field nowadays. Regarding feigning injuries, i thought this was to avoid being booked for a dive and to slow the pace down?

[Bar BS3]

9 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

....they dive, feign injury, and cheat from start to finish, trying to get an opponent booked or sent off. But then, when two opposing players - Preston ones today - are having a pop at each other, they - Wednesday ones today - try and pull the PNE players apart. To stop them hurting each other and possibly getting sent off?

What's that about?

 

Not many players actually "dive, feign or outright cheat" of course, some do. 

Most use situations to their advantage, which is dirrent. "Professional" even. 

I understand your question, but is like to think that most good pro's have enough respect for fellow pro's not to let them loose their rag and have a punch up with team mates, without trying to help out. 

[A Horse With No Name]

6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Not many players actually "dive, feign or outright cheat" of course, some do. 

Most use situations to their advantage, which is dirrent. "Professional" even. 

I understand your question, but is like to think that most good pro's have enough respect for fellow pro's not to let them loose their rag and have a punch up with team mates, without trying to help out. 

Deli Ali is a cheat. Always has been. End of.

[Bar BS3]

7 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Deli Ali is a cheat. Always has been. End of.

You must have missed the second part of my first sentence. 

[Malago]

It all goes back to technology.  Easy to see if there has been contact with slow mo and even if there has been, If the player is on his way down before there's any contact, it's a dive as well, pure and simple.

[downendcity]

12 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

....they dive, feign injury, and cheat from start to finish, trying to get an opponent booked or sent off. But then, when two opposing players - Preston ones today - are having a pop at each other, they - Wednesday ones today - try and pull the PNE players apart. To stop them hurting each other and possibly getting sent off?

What's that about?

 

If you don't get it Jack then you can't be an academic. 

[The Humble Realist]

It is odd....Tomlin was very lucky not to be sent off yesterday  .

He clearly tripped their guy who was breaking...it was an obvious yellow card....he walked away from the ref who was calling him...the ref continued to call him ...eventually tomlin got the message but started giving the ref an earful . The ref ended up meeting tomlin halfway to book him ...tomlin was still giving him an earful 2 mins later.  I'd have sent tomlin off if I was the ref !

For th record ..I love tomlin and think the ref was an attention seeking muppet yesterday but in that incident tomlin was a complete tool

[Bar BS3]

8 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

It is odd....Tomlin was very lucky not to be sent off yesterday  .

He clearly tripped their guy who was breaking...it was an obvious yellow card....he walked away from the ref who was calling him...the ref continued to call him ...eventually tomlin got the message but started giving the ref an earful . The ref ended up meeting tomlin halfway to book him ...tomlin was still giving him an earful 2 mins later.  I'd have sent tomlin off if I was the ref !

For th record ..I love tomlin and think the ref was an attention seeking muppet yesterday but in that incident tomlin was a complete tool

It's not against the rules to talk to the ref. Without knowing what he was saying, why would you think he should be sent off..?

Didn't look "abusive or aggressive" to me. Just stating his case, which if done reasonably, isn't that big a deal. 

[The Humble Realist]

5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

It's not against the rules to talk to the ref. Without knowing what he was saying, why would you think he should be sent off..?

Didn't look "abusive or aggressive" to me. Just stating his case, which if done reasonably, isn't that big a deal. 

Im sure tomlin was making a reasoned argument over the pros and cons of a hard brexit at the time. ...

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

Im sure tomlin was making a reasoned argument over the pros and cons of a hard brexit at the time. ...

I doubt it, but if he wasn't F'ing & blinding at the ref, or calling him a **** then why should he be sent off for talking to him?

[The Humble Realist]

5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I doubt it, but if he wasn't F'ing & blinding at the ref, or calling him a **** then why should he be sent off for talking to him?

Apologies..my sarcasm was unnecessary. 

Yellow card for the Tackle and then a yellow for walking away when called /not coming over when called /generally arguing. There was nothing to argue about -it was the most blatant foul you'll ever see!

Tomlin isn't the only one ...most players do it but it's something the refs could cut out sharpish if they stood their ground a bit more.

[Bar BS3]

3 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

Apologies..my sarcasm was unnecessary. 

Yellow card for the Tackle and then a yellow for walking away when called /not coming over when called /generally arguing. There was nothing to argue about -it was the most blatant foul you'll ever see!

Tomlin isn't the only one ...most players do it but it's something the refs could cut out sharpish if they stood their ground a bit more.

It would be extremely harsh! 

When do you ever see a ref book someone for not coming to them when called..?

Absolutely blatant foul and justified booking. Tomlin took one for the team as they broke, but without foul and abusive language at the ref, then there was never any danger of a red card. 

Actually, I think Tomlin has greatly improved his conduct, since his suspension. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

15 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

It would be extremely harsh! 

When do you ever see a ref book someone for not coming to them when called..?

Absolutely blatant foul and justified booking. Tomlin took one for the team as they broke, but without foul and abusive language at the ref, then there was never any danger of a red card. 

Actually, I think Tomlin has greatly improved his conduct, since his suspension. 

Me too. He was getting lumps kicked out of him pretty much all the first half yesterday and just got up and got on with it. Mind you, the ref was giving him the free kicks so it might have been different if he hadn`t.

[Robbored]

Talking of PL players the flying thigh high tackle from Aguero was an utter disgrace and he should get retrospective  extended ban of 5 games.

I know top strikers have that "edge" but yesterday Aguero seriously over did what's seen as acceptable.

On the other side of that "edge" Sanchez scored a hat trick against West Ham and he used his brilliantly. His third goal reminded me of Thierry Henry. It was sublime.

[Portland Bill]

3 hours ago, Malago said:

It all goes back to technology.  Easy to see if there has been contact with slow mo and even if there has been, If the player is on his way down before there's any contact, it's a dive as well, pure and simple.

It's not easy to see though is it! A lot of instances are inconclusive.

Technology isn't the answer imo, just let referees referee the game as they always have, bollocks to tv, it's not a tv programme, it's a game to watch live.

[Robin 101]

4 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Deli Ali is a cheat. Always has been. End of.

Is Tomlin?

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

4 hours ago, Malago said:

It all goes back to technology.  Easy to see if there has been contact with slow mo and even if there has been, If the player is on his way down before there's any contact, it's a dive as well, pure and simple.

Yes, and start deducting points from teams. That might focus minds.

[RedM]

4 hours ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Yes, and start deducting points from teams. That might focus minds.

And start more punch ups between team mates

[reddoh]

6 hours ago, The Humble Realist said:

It is odd....Tomlin was very lucky not to be sent off yesterday  .

He clearly tripped their guy who was breaking...it was an obvious yellow card....he walked away from the ref who was calling him...the ref continued to call him ...eventually tomlin got the message but started giving the ref an earful . The ref ended up meeting tomlin halfway to book him ...tomlin was still giving him an earful 2 mins later.  I'd have sent tomlin off if I was the ref !

For th record ..I love tomlin and think the ref was an attention seeking muppet yesterday but in that incident tomlin was a complete tool

yes but he's our tool

[CotswoldRed]

Until the referee (and FA retrospectively)  apply the rules properly then players will break them. 

[Cowshed]

Until the FA retrospectively apply the rules properly with the backing of the EPL increasing numbers of players and their clubs will continue to cheat.

Pochettino's post-match comments regarding Deli Ali condoned cheating.

Chris Sutton outlined something different - Cheating.

The referee has no chance until others in the media bang the same drum and influence the EPL who think currently there are no problems within their product.

[Linkedarm wall]

In my job I've been lucky enough to speak to many professional sports people about 'cheating'. In many cases, as sports people who have grown up loving the game they play, they know what is right and wrong and would prefer to act in a fair way. However, in professional sport it really is 'win at all costs' driven by coaches and management and the attitude of, let the referee decide on the decision.

For example I've worked with a County Championship opening bat who scored over 20,000 first class runs, his personal feelings about nicking the ball to the keeper and knowing he'd done it was to walk. He told me that he was under strict instruction from management never to walk and that's what the umpires were there for. Bit like when Michael Owen says if he got clipped even slightly he'd go down and let the ref decide...... cheating or pushing the boundaries? I dunno,but just remember, players may be under pressure from the people who pay their wages in a quite often brutal atmosphere.

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

It's not easy to see though is it! A lot of instances are inconclusive.

Technology isn't the answer imo, just let referees referee the game as they always have, bollocks to tv, it's not a tv programme, it's a game to watch live.

Absolutely. A slow motion replay watched 100 times still cannot tell you what impact the slightest of touches can have on a player running at full pace.

There are players who do cheat, but a lot of the instances that get called cheating usually aren't. You know someone doesn't have to actually make contact for it to be a foul? If a player is impeded in some way and then avoids contact to protect themselves it's still a foul. 

As for feigning injury, again some people are just cheats, but it's also fairly common that a foul, tackle or just a twist can cause short sharp pain. Just because a player is up and running a few minutes later doesn't mean it didn't hurt initially.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Until the FA retrospectively apply the rules properly with the backing of the EPL increasing numbers of players and their clubs will continue to cheat.

Pochettino's post-match comments regarding Deli Ali condoned cheating.

Chris Sutton outlined something different - Cheating.

The referee has no chance until others in the media bang the same drum and influence the EPL who think currently there are no problems within their product.

How did it condone cheating? As far as I'm aware he'd seen it once, in real time, and therefore probably wasn't in a position to say. I did disagree that he said it had no impact on the result, of course it did as that put them ahead

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Linkedarm wall said:

In my job I've been lucky enough to speak to many professional sports people about 'cheating'. In many cases, as sports people who have grown up loving the game they play, they know what is right and wrong and would prefer to act in a fair way. However, in professional sport it really is 'win at all costs' driven by coaches and management and the attitude of, let the referee decide on the decision.

For example I've worked with a County Championship opening bat who scored over 20,000 first class runs, his personal feelings about nicking the ball to the keeper and knowing he'd done it was to walk. He told me that he was under strict instruction from management never to walk and that's what the umpires were there for. Bit like when Michael Owen says if he got clipped even slightly he'd go down and let the ref decide...... cheating or pushing the boundaries? I dunno,but just remember, players may be under pressure from the people who pay their wages in a quite often brutal atmosphere.

There is a big difference between going down under a challenge (Owen) and blatantly cheating when there is no contact (Ali, Costa, etc)

 

[Murraysrightplum]

Win bonus? Would you fall over for 10 grand?

[Cowshed]

Marcus x. Pochettino's post-match comments did not rebuke Alis diving. Not for the first time. There is currently no incentive there not to cheat.

Mr Pochettino's therefore condones cheating.

[Super]

21 hours ago, Robbored said:

Talking of PL players the flying thigh high tackle from Aguero was an utter disgrace and he should get retrospective  extended ban of 5 games.

I know top strikers have that "edge" but yesterday Aguero seriously over did what's seen as acceptable.

On the other side of that "edge" Sanchez scored a hat trick against West Ham and he used his brilliantly. His third goal reminded me of Thierry Henry. It was sublime.

One of the worst tackles I have seen. Def should be longer than a 3 game ban. Rojo's yesterday was a shocker as well.

[Robbored]

7 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

There is a big difference between going down under a challenge (Owen) and blatantly cheating when there is no contact (Ali, Costa, etc)

 

When Owen went over In the box against Argentina the press the next day called Owen "la pirato" and praised Owen for conning the referee. 

No accusations of "cheat" just praise for winning the penalty. It's a different attitude from lots of Latin countries. 

Its no surprise that some of the Latino players over here still tend to dive and are mystified when they get labelled "cheat".

When Drogba arrived at Chelsea he was going down at the slightest touch and quite righty was critised for it. After a while he cut it out of his game and became a better striker for it.