"We didn't really play our way"

[Londoner]

Cracking one liner LJ....no we didn't, maybe because you played 442 with 2 holding midfielders with two big lads up top.....

Seriously LJ.

 

 

 

[old_eastender]

2 minutes ago, Londoner said:

Cracking one liner LJ....no we didn't, maybe because you played 442 with 2 holding midfielders with two big lads up top.....

Seriously LJ.

 

 

 

Spot on, and even when behind bought on another holding midfielder instead of giving Engval a chance!

[forbespm]

Whats"our way"i,m not sure if we know

[M.D]

Why did he say earlier this week that we are two transfer windows away from being able to play 4-4-2 then play 4-4-2?

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Spot on, and even when behind bought on another holding midfielder instead of giving Engval a chance!

It genuinely worries me that he doesn't have a philosophy, I like him but he is neglected what made him stand out....

As for a work in progress, yes, reading and Huddersfield seem to be doing alright though...

[GrahamC]

Fact is we are becoming a really poor side away from home this season.

If we don't remedy this soon we will be looking anxiously at the bottom six.

[Portland Bill]

7 minutes ago, forbespm said:

Whats"our way"i,m not sure if we know

Losing the other way!

[cityloyal473]

We haven't got a 'way', he makes it up on the hoof and calls it a work in progress.

[Londoner]

4 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

We haven't got a 'way', he makes it up on the hoof and calls it a work in progress.

Unfortunately I'm starting to feel that way.

[Chairman Mao]

No suprise out best play in the second half came when Reid and Tomlin combined in the middle

keep it on the ground. Mags and Flint are excellent at defending but their distribution is awful. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

I can understand the knives coming out for LJ ATM and as others are saying, why does he keep putting Engvall on the bench almost every game when he clearly has no intention of playing him.  The shape today was totally wrong and just allowed Huddersfield to dictate mid field and every time Wilbs is playing we result to hoof ball.  Reid should have started instead of Pack and when he came on,  for the first time in the match,  we looked like taking the game to them.  Unfortunately then Frankie went to sleep and that sealed the result. Do you think LJ will drop him, after all he did when O'D made a mistake, if he does will it be O'D or Lucic to take his place.

[forbespm]

The first half "way"or the second half"way"...sounds like we played our normal first half all game today

[Up The City!]

Our way seems to be to keep possession and knock it about slowly. However a team like Huddersfield with their extreme pressing are not going to allow you to do that.

[Northern Red]

6 minutes ago, Bullbag said:

Utterly baffling.

Didn't deserve his hefty wage this week.

How do you know what his wage is?

[shelts]

I'm struggling to see what is our way. I like LJ but our football is going backwards and if our current poor form continues then then any nice football will go out the window to get results .  Like two up top and Tomlin in behind, not sure if we can set up like that if we have the right players . 

[The Coach]

Some disagreed with me on the topic regarding LJ and the contract extension. Which is fair enough, everyone has a different opinion. However, if we slip down the table and we find ourself in the bottom half, are we not far from square one again? Only this time we have spent the money in the summer so there is no excuse. I made a point saying the football hasn't been brilliant so far this season. And it hasn't in truth. Some may disagree, but we have no style. Our midfield isn't good enough all round in this league to act as a skewer from the defence to the forward line. The football has been poor.

[JoeAman08]

15 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

Some disagreed with me on the topic regarding LJ and the contract extension. Which is fair enough, everyone has a different opinion. However, if we slip down the table and we find ourself in the bottom half, are we not far from square one again? Only this time we have spent the money in the summer so there is no excuse. I made a point saying the football hasn't been brilliant so far this season. And it hasn't in truth. Some may disagree, but we have no style. Our midfield isn't good enough all round in this league to act as a skewer from the defence to the forward line. The football has been poor.

You're spot on about the midfield. What is our deepest position is our weakest. Only Bobby Reid for me would I say has been good enough. Maybe we need to see a bit more of Brownhill. Young and inexperienced but he's got the desire and motor. Otherwise we need to recruit another one. Look at the midfielders in this league and we really lack. I think O'Neil is a good one for this league but not for 46 games. More of a 2 out of every 3 game guy for me because of his age. Korey should be in the same mould as O'Neil but the ankle injury I think had taken some desire from him. Scared to go all out. Pack is ok when teams play long which is a lot in this league but today wasn't a good match for him. We need one stellar midfielder though. Easier said than done though 

[MarkRed!]

The bottom line is that we are a midtable side and have progressed beyond doubt this season. Where realistically did people expect us to be. A few bad results and doom and gloom pervade OTIB. We have lost by the odd goal and have been in most of the games (with the exception of Newcastle, Brighton and Norwich games).

The formation is a problem - last year everyone was screaming at Cotts for 352 (and rightly so). This year we are all over the show with no consistency of selection.  We have played well with 4321 and just not put teams away. Bobby Reid has missed 3/4 guilt edge chances that could have secured winning points at Rotherham, Cardiff, Reading.  Why we are playing 442, I shall never know... and today we were overrun and could not get going. If I can see that, why cant LJ. Reality is that Johnson does not know his best team or best system.  Abraham is probably the headache because he cannot play on his own up front. He struggles to hold up the play and is not strong enough. He gets outmuscled. He is a finisher and needs someone with him. However, this is the system for me (4231):

Fielding

Matthews Flint Mags Goldbourne

Oneill Pack 

Freeman Tomlin Paterson

Abraham

Tomlin has the free role rather than being wasted out wide but would be under orders to place close to Tammy. Far too often he comes short to get the ball. Bryan might come in for Paterson as he is more defensive minded.  If I could I would replaced the GK. Both FF and ROD are not good enough and consistently kick away possession, putting us back under pressure. I like Lucic but it is too soon for him but he should play in the FA Cup.  

My only other gripe, what is the story with Engvall. He is not getting a look in. Last week, 2-0 up, thought he was a shoe-in for the last 15 minutes. Not played. This week, need a goal, not played. He cost 2.5 million.....WTF is LJ doing.

Personally, I would not have extended LJ's contract until the end of the season. Cant understand why we do it mid-season and it should be based on progression. Currently, he is doing it for me, but this division can change very quickly.... 

[Ivorguy]

 I don't know what 'our way' is.  Cul de sacs and reverse gear are the only phrases that jump to mind

Anyone like to enlighten me? 

 

Over the decades our our most favoured style was the old fashioned third division boot up the middle.  Is that what Lee meant ?!

[BobBobSuperBob]

25 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

The bottom line is that we are a midtable side and have progressed beyond doubt this season. Where realistically did people expect us to be. A few bad results and doom and gloom pervade OTIB. We have lost by the odd goal and have been in most of the games (with the exception of Newcastle, Brighton and Norwich games).

The formation is a problem - last year everyone was screaming at Cotts for 352 (and rightly so). This year we are all over the show with no consistency of selection.  We have played well with 4321 and just not put teams away. Bobby Reid has missed 3/4 guilt edge chances that could have secured winning points at Rotherham, Cardiff, Reading.  Why we are playing 442, I shall never know... and today we were overrun and could not get going. If I can see that, why cant LJ. Reality is that Johnson does not know his best team or best system. 

Abraham is probably the headache because he cannot play on his own up front. He struggles to hold up the play and is not strong enough. He gets outmuscled. He is a finisher and needs someone with him. However, this is the system for me (4231):

Fielding

Matthews Flint Mags Goldbourne

Oneill Pack 

Freeman Tomlin Paterson

Abraham

Tomlin has the free role rather than being wasted out wide but would be under orders to place close to Tammy. Far too often he comes short to get the ball. Bryan might come in for Paterson as he is more defensive minded.  If I could I would replaced the GK. Both FF and ROD are not good enough and consistently kick away possession, putting us back under pressure. I like Lucic but it is too soon for him but he should play in the FA Cup.  

My only other gripe, what is the story with Engvall. He is not getting a look in. Last week, 2-0 up, thought he was a shoe-in for the last 15 minutes. Not played. This week, need a goal, not played. He cost 2.5 million.....WTF is LJ doing.

Personally, I would not have extended LJ's contract until the end of the season. Cant understand why we do it mid-season and it should be based on progression. Currently, he is doing it for me, but this division can change very quickly.... 

Blimey , I'm confused - after moaning about the 'doom & gloom' you then proceed to criticise most aspects of the current situation !!!!

 

ps IMO I completely disagree about TA - IMO great first touch and holds ball up pretty decently

IF he gets reasonable service and has support within 25 yards he's more than capable of the role IMO

If we continue to pump long balls around his neck and then expect him to hold the ball for a couple of mins expecting some support , then no he's not going to look great

 

Petsonally I'd be brave and leave out Tomlin,  in a 4-5-1 and give Bobby R the No 10 role on Tues - think he would support TA far more effectively than LT has

[MarkRed!]

I am not moaning about the league position as there has clearly been progress but there are some "gripes" if you like which I think are frustrating. Interested in your view that we should change the formation to 451 - which illustrates the problems - we don't have a settled 11 or a settled formation because LJ does not know it. We could quite easily revert back to 352 ... and I am surprised we have not seen it. Best performance at Fulham was 4321 (I think)  and it had:

FF

JB AF HM ML

MP BR LT

LF JP

TA

TA has been a revelation for a kid learning his trade but he is not a target man - yet he appears to be being used in that capacity and he is getting outmuscled.... I agree he needs the ball into feet but quite often he is having to try and win one of FF's crap kicks. It is not often we have been playing through midfield... he is getting isolated because he is not able to win the long balls and is getting crap service.

Drop Tomlin? No chance, he is our best player and we need to find a system where he can have a free role. He needs to be closer to TA and our problems come because he is coming to get the ball rather than staying close to TA.  We probably need another creative presence in midfield. Bobby plays in Tomlin's role for me so it is one or the other. I would maybe play the team that played at Fulham....

[Robbored]

Bottom line - the squad needs at least one more striker and at least two better quality midfielders. A reliable right back as well.

LJ has said from day one that it would take three windows to get the squad where he wants it to be. Unfortunately good quality players in the January window aren't as abundant as in the summer so I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if  the scouts have potential signings lined up for MA to complete the deals.

[BobBobSuperBob]

17 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

I am not moaning about the league position as there has clearly been progress but there are some "gripes" if you like which I think are frustrating. Interested in your view that we should change the formation to 451 - which illustrates the problems - we don't have a settled 11 or a settled formation because LJ does not know it. We could quite easily revert back to 352 ... and I am surprised we have not seen it. Best performance at Fulham was 4321 (I think)  and it had:

FF

JB AF HM ML

MP BR LT

LF JP

TA

TA has been a revelation for a kid learning his trade but he is not a target man - yet he appears to be being used in that capacity and he is getting outmuscled.... I agree he needs the ball into feet but quite often he is having to try and win one of FF's crap kicks. It is not often we have been playing through midfield... he is getting isolated because he is not able to win the long balls and is getting crap service.

Drop Tomlin? No chance, he is our best player and we need to find a system where he can have a free role. He needs to be closer to TA and our problems come because he is coming to get the ball rather than staying close to TA.  We probably need another creative presence in midfield. Bobby plays in Tomlin's role for me so it is one or the other. I would maybe play the team that played at Fulham....

Interesting points

LT has had that 'free' No 10 role and for me personally hasn't really delivered enough in terms of goals and assists which is his role as a '10'

IMO you also highlight the very problem of giving Tomlin the '10' / free role

He does not IMO support TA hardly at all and instead does exactly how you say, picking up the ball from Centre Halves and leaving TA isolated

As a '10' That is NOT HIS ROLE

Why does he do it ?

IMO - Because, like many 'talented' players  over years he doesn't trust some around him and thinks he can do that part better, forgetting his primary role 

And if you think the service to Tammy is 'crap' ( I do too) the first place you need to look is the free roaming 10 who has supplying TA as a primary role.

If he wants to play the free 10 role then he needs to play That Role and trust others to do theirs , whether he thinks they can or not

 

The whole ethos of LJs Footballing philosophy is to 'play' through the areas on the pitch

You highlight rightly, FF kicking long to TA which is not good for numerous reasons

But any Sunday Morning Coach would press when FF has ball , not allowing him to throw / roll / pass ball short and make him kick long to ...... ? ..... TA probably best of limited options unless AW on the pitch

Other sides have identified AF , and Little on occasions as poor passers of a ball and will leave say AF to have the ball , closing off any opportunity for him to pass the ball on

To 'play' right through the pitch you need players totally comfortable 'on the ball' as per Peps philosophy

Even allowing for the difference in Standard do you think any of our back four would get anywhere near a Pep Championship side

( I'm not criticising our back four - I'm just pointing out with the possible exception of Adam Matthews when he's good , none of them or FF fit the LJ philosophy)

 

[Red Ferret]

Tomlin is too deep. Push him up closer to Tammy. He's great at running from deep, but there is clearly a disconnect between attack and midfield.  I want to see him on the edge of the box playing killer flicks and through balls to Tammy rather than taking on five opponents from 40 yards out. 

Get Engval or a new striker (in Jan) to replace Wilbraham. As much as I love the fellow we need something new up there

Start giving Bobby Reid a chance. He's a good player. 

[petehinton]

From what I can make out we played a disjointed 90 mins of the wrong formation and hitting it long to Abraham. 

In which case we 100% played 'our way'

[The Bard]

55 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

The bottom line is that we are a midtable side and have progressed beyond doubt this season. Where realistically did people expect us to be. A few bad results and doom and gloom pervade OTIB. We have lost by the odd goal and have been in most of the games (with the exception of Newcastle, Brighton and Norwich games).

The formation is a problem - last year everyone was screaming at Cotts for 352 (and rightly so). This year we are all over the show with no consistency of selection.  We have played well with 4321 and just not put teams away. Bobby Reid has missed 3/4 guilt edge chances that could have secured winning points at Rotherham, Cardiff, Reading.  Why we are playing 442, I shall never know... and today we were overrun and could not get going. If I can see that, why cant LJ. Reality is that Johnson does not know his best team or best system.  Abraham is probably the headache because he cannot play on his own up front. He struggles to hold up the play and is not strong enough. He gets outmuscled. He is a finisher and needs someone with him. However, this is the system for me (4231):

Fielding

Matthews Flint Mags Goldbourne

Oneill Pack 

Freeman Tomlin Paterson

Abraham

Tomlin has the free role rather than being wasted out wide but would be under orders to place close to Tammy. Far too often he comes short to get the ball. Bryan might come in for Paterson as he is more defensive minded.  If I could I would replaced the GK. Both FF and ROD are not good enough and consistently kick away possession, putting us back under pressure. I like Lucic but it is too soon for him but he should play in the FA Cup.  

My only other gripe, what is the story with Engvall. He is not getting a look in. Last week, 2-0 up, thought he was a shoe-in for the last 15 minutes. Not played. This week, need a goal, not played. He cost 2.5 million.....WTF is LJ doing.

Personally, I would not have extended LJ's contract until the end of the season. Cant understand why we do it mid-season and it should be based on progression. Currently, he is doing it for me, but this division can change very quickly.... 

At least he gets chances.  When's the last time one of Paterson, Freeman, Pack, Smith, O'Dowda and O'Neill missed a chance?  They haven't mustered as many chances and goals between them as Bobby yet people don't want him in their side.  Madness.  Today showed why he has to play.  He is about the only player close to Tomlin's wavelength and he tries to make things happen.  He came on too late.

[forbespm]

2 hours ago, Red_Wizard said:

Some disagreed with me on the topic regarding LJ and the contract extension. Which is fair enough, everyone has a different opinion. However, if we slip down the table and we find ourself in the bottom half, are we not far from square one again? Only this time we have spent the money in the summer so there is no excuse. I made a point saying the football hasn't been brilliant so far this season. And it hasn't in truth. Some may disagree, but we have no style. Our midfield isn't good enough all round in this league to act as a skewer from the defence to the forward line. The football has been poor.

Totally agree.even when we have won matches the games haven't been good to watch.think of the last few home games,against Blackburn we were dreadful,not great to watch against Ipswich either.

 

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

From what I can make out we played a disjointed 90 mins of the wrong formation and hitting it long to Abraham. 

In which case we 100% played 'our way'

I think people sometimes make too much of a big deal about formations, I couldn't even tell you what formation Huddersfield were playing because they were just so fluent and thats what we need to get better at.

[miketh2nd]

2 hours ago, Red Ferret said:

Tomlin is too deep. Push him up closer to Tammy. He's great at running from deep, but there is clearly a disconnect between attack and midfield.  I want to see him on the edge of the box playing killer flicks and through balls to Tammy rather than taking on five opponents from 40 yards out. 

Get Engval or a new striker (in Jan) to replace Wilbraham. As much as I love the fellow we need something new up there

Start giving Bobby Reid a chance. He's a good player. 

I agree with you we need Reid to support Tomlin and Tammy  . I think if Tomlin isn't playing in his natural position he is wasted and we might Aswell of had him on the bench. 

Tomlin comes deep because we aren't creating enough I'm not sure if Reid is the answer in cm but he seems to be the only cm who is on Tomlin's wavelength.  

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Red Ferret said:

Tomlin is too deep. Push him up closer to Tammy. He's great at running from deep, but there is clearly a disconnect between attack and midfield.  I want to see him on the edge of the box playing killer flicks and through balls to Tammy rather than taking on five opponents from 40 yards out. 

Get Engval or a new striker (in Jan) to replace Wilbraham. As much as I love the fellow we need something new up there

Start giving Bobby Reid a chance. He's a good player. 

Tomlin is going to drop deep and that fine but that's why Bobby must play in the team with Tomlin. Bobby sees LT dropping and pushes forward and is the only one that will do it. We actually did miss Freeman a bit as he at least keeps wide. 4231 with Bobby GON and Tomlin in the middle with Reid and Tomlin in free roles attacking and Freeman and I'd have O'Dowda out wide personally. If we are going to struggle I'd like to see our youth get a few more minutes than they have.