My view on today's game

[Londoner]

We were diabolical.

Scott hogan misses 4 one on ones.....all of them gifted.....Flint falls asleep, hodor loses the ball, pack loses the ball, and golbourne with a shocking back pass...

Funny game, because those 4 were all far superior tonight to Korey Smith who looks a shadow of the player he was....

LJ tactically bizarre, taking off pack over smith a very odd call.

Good to see Engvall get a go....very raw but good pace and movement he will no doubt need time. 

So so so negative for a home performance so disappointing....based on THAT we will be relegation candidates.

O'Dowda and Patterson now no longer seemingly getting a look in....seems a shame and definately no worse than Bryan based on recent performances....his confidence is shot.

Its very simple....play Reid in the middle with pack/gaz, get some consistency LJ.

[shelts]

I'm worried. Transfer window in January can't come quick enough. 

No real decent width apart from Mathews at the club. 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Londoner said:

We were diabolical.

Scott hogan misses 4 one on ones.....all of them gifted.....Flint falls asleep, hodor loses the ball, pack loses the ball, and golbourne with a shocking back pass...

Funny game, because those 4 were all far superior tonight to Korey Smith who looks a shadow of the player he was....

LJ tactically bizarre, taking off pack over smith a very odd call.

Good to see Engvall get a go....very raw but good pace and movement he will no doubt need time. 

So so so negative for a home performance so disappointing....based on THAT we will be relegation candidates.

O'Dowda and Patterson now no longer seemingly getting a look in....seems a shame and definately no worse than Bryan based on recent performances....his confidence is shot.

Its very simple....play Reid in the middle with pack/gaz, get some consistency LJ.

Agree with most of that (you may be surprised after my recent trolling if you )..  didn't think we were diabolical though. Good in some spells either side of half-time, but not for large enough parts of the game,

Not seen one mention of Freeman tonight....thought he was our best player.

[shelts]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree with most of that (you may be surprised after my recent trolling if you )..  didn't think we were diabolical though. Good in some spells either side of half-time, but not for large enough parts of the game,

Not seen one mention of Freeman tonight....thought he was our best player.

No more to drink please Dave!!

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, shelts said:

No more to drink please Dave!!

Do you seriously not think he had a good game tonight?

[bearded_red]

It's strange really, I thought it was a decent enough game with both teams missing opportunities to make it a much bigger scoreline than it was.

For actual entertainment I actually thought it was a fair bit better than a lot of games this season. I can't help but feel that people are slightly exaggerating how poor a night it was purely because of the run we are in and if that exact same game was played back in September the general mood would be a lot more, that although disappointed to lose, it was a decent enough game, missed our chances to win (although so did they) and conceded a rather unlucky goal.

Now if you want to be critical of our performances and results over the last couple of months you certainly wouldn't find me making any case for the defence.

[pillred]

4 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

It's strange really, I thought it was a decent enough game with both teams missing opportunities to make it a much bigger scoreline than it was.

For actual entertainment I actually thought it was a fair bit better than a lot of games this season. I can't help but feel that people are slightly exaggerating how poor a night it was purely because of the run we are in and if that exact same game was played back in September the general mood would be a lot more, that although disappointed to lose, it was a decent enough game, missed our chances to win (although so did they) and conceded a rather unlucky goal.

Now if you want to be critical of our performances and results over the last couple of months you certainly wouldn't find me making any case for the defence.

yes I don't think any lawyer in the land would take on that case

[Nogbad the Bad]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree with most of that (you may be surprised after my recent trolling if you )..  didn't think we were diabolical though. Good in some spells either side of half-time, but not for large enough parts of the game,

Not seen one mention of Freeman tonight....thought he was our best player.

He was, but it's not the done thing for most OTIB posters to praise him.

[shelts]

LJ  is coming in for some major stick on here and always seems to pick Freeman . Cards on table I don't think Freeman is good enough at this level and would love to be proved wrong as I think he has the talent at Championship level . Tonight he was tidy 

[reddoh]

18 minutes ago, pillred said:

yes I don't think any lawyer in the land would take on that case

oh yes they would, there is always some money grabbing bastard prepared to whore themselves for money.

[Manon]

27 minutes ago, shelts said:

 I don't think Freeman is good enough at this level and would love to be proved wrong as I think he has the talent at Championship level . 

Ummm. Am I missing something here.?

[shelts]

13 minutes ago, Manon said:

Ummm. Am I missing something here.?

Only you have the answers cocker 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Agree with most of that (you may be surprised after my recent trolling if you )..  didn't think we were diabolical though. Good in some spells either side of half-time, but not for large enough parts of the game,

Not seen one mention of Freeman tonight....thought he was our best player.

I thought he did well tonight, a lot quicker making decisions and not too many step overs. I like Luke.

[westonred]

This team need goals (stating the beeding obvious) We must have one of the most goal shy midfields in football. Freeman, Pack, Reid and Smith are not goal scorers they may pop up with 2, 3 or 4 a season but that aint good enough. In the transfer window i would go back in for Bradley Dack (10 to 15 a season) and see if we could maybe offer Freeman as part of the deal. (His local club might get the best of him again as he's lost it here these days)

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, westonred said:

This team need goals (stating the beeding obvious) We must have one of the most goal shy midfields in football. Freeman, Pack, Reid and Smith are not goal scorers they may pop up with 2, 3 or 4 a season but that aint good enough. In the transfer window i would go back in for Bradley Dack (10 to 15 a season) and see if we could maybe offer Freeman as part of the deal. (His local club might get the best of him again as he's lost it here these days)

Totally agree re lack of goal threat from m/f

But Dack scored 13 league goals last year and previous seasons 9 and 3

Havnt checked but doesn't seem to have impacted too much this season to date

Goals from midfield needed - definitely

Dack the answer - can't see it - still young enough to push on but would need more convincing - would be a punt / gamble , at best IMO

[Leveller]

2 hours ago, westonred said:

This team need goals (stating the beeding obvious) We must have one of the most goal shy midfields in football. Freeman, Pack, Reid and Smith are not goal scorers they may pop up with 2, 3 or 4 a season but that aint good enough. In the transfer window i would go back in for Bradley Dack (10 to 15 a season) and see if we could maybe offer Freeman as part of the deal. (His local club might get the best of him again as he's lost it here these days)

Presumably you didn't actually see last nights game, if that's your view of Freeman at the moment.

[The Bard]

Freeman did okay last night. Less needless touches and more decisive.  I thought the game clearly showed that we need to ditch 2 holding midfielders if we're playing 1 up front. Get Bobby deeper so that his ability to pass forwards and quickly is better utilised. Into Tomlin.

Worryingly, the goal knocked the stuffing out of us. 

[spudski]

Another frustrating night of football...would be so different if those chances had gone in. A few of them, it was easier to score than miss. Shocking night in front of goal.

Thought we look well organised when defending. A few individual lapses in concentration in decision making and making the wrong pass etc.

What disappointed me the most, was our movement off the ball when attacking. It is dire. Players going hiding or not moving to make an angle. So many just standing still.

Fans are heard to moan loudly when the ball gets passed backwards. The reason it's not going forward, is because of the lack of movement to make space, come and receive the ball or drag a player away to make space. The amount of times Bryan and Goldbourne had the ball with four players in front of them just ******* stood there. No option to pass to them, as Brentford just cut out the pass option. I would love to see the heat pattern movement of Tammy...he's become a lazy git. He doesn't leave the area of the 'D' and just sits on the shoulder of the CB.

Smith had an absolute shocker again...Goes into hiding...what has happened to him? Pack was so much better. Can't believe he got pulled off. Think LJ got that wrong.

Pretty much halfway through the season, and it's obvious now, that it's not formations or tactics that are the problem, but the actual quality of Individual players.

Certain areas need to be strengthened immediately. Obviously with transfer windows, budget and players being available, it's never going to be easy. Plus does anyone really want 'journeyman Championship Pro's' brought in...no we don't.

On this seasons performances only, the players that on a regular basis are proving their worth are Magners, Flint, Pack, Freeman, Reid, Tomlin, Tammy.

So many more need to up their game or be moved on. Bryan, Goldbourne and Matthews have all been disappointing this season.

Odowda, Paterson, Brownhill, Moore all for the future it seems.

I think we have the ability to remain mid table with these players, but they really need to all up their game and stop the silly decision making.

The biggest improvement though, needs to be in movement off the ball when on the attack...it is so,so poor. Often lazy...so many go hiding not wanting to receive a pass...they go behind a defender instead of making an angle...making the move break down and go backwards again. Watch Bryan and Smith and GoN....they are a nightmare for this.

Tammy needs a kick up the backside...not good enough young man...get moving not just when the ball is coming into the box.

As for Tomlin....hmmmmmm....less said at the moment.

Even if our chances had been put away last night, it could have so easily been 3 or 4... I would have still said the same things. There's more movement in my bowels this morning than I witnessed last night ;-)

[exAtyeoMax]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

Another frustrating night of football...would be so different if those chances had gone in. A few of them, it was easier to score than miss. Shocking night in front of goal.

Thought we look well organised when defending. A few individual lapses in concentration in decision making and making the wrong pass etc.

What disappointed me the most, was our movement off the ball when attacking. It is dire. Players going hiding or not moving to make an angle. So many just standing still.

Fans are heard to moan loudly when the ball gets passed backwards. The reason it's not going forward, is because of the lack of movement to make space, come and receive the ball or drag a player away to make space. The amount of times Bryan and Goldbourne had the ball with four players in front of them just ******* stood there. No option to pass to them, as Brentford just cut out the pass option. I would love to see the heat pattern movement of Tammy...he's become a lazy git. He doesn't leave the area of the 'D' and just sits on the shoulder of the CB.

Smith had an absolute shocker again...Goes into hiding...what has happened to him? Pack was so much better. Can't believe he got pulled off. Think LJ got that wrong.

Pretty much halfway through the season, and it's obvious now, that it's not formations or tactics that are the problem, but the actual quality of Individual players.

Certain areas need to be strengthened immediately. Obviously with transfer windows, budget and players being available, it's never going to be easy. Plus does anyone really want 'journeyman Championship Pro's' brought in...no we don't.

On this seasons performances only, the players that on a regular basis are proving their worth are Magners, Flint, Pack, Freeman, Reid, Tomlin, Tammy.

So many more need to up their game or be moved on. Bryan, Goldbourne and Matthews have all been disappointing this season.

Odowda, Paterson, Brownhill, Moore all for the future it seems.

I think we have the ability to remain mid table with these players, but they really need to all up their game and stop the silly decision making.

The biggest improvement though, needs to be in movement off the ball when on the attack...it is so,so poor. Often lazy...so many go hiding not wanting to receive a pass...they go behind a defender instead of making an angle...making the move break down and go backwards again. Watch Bryan and Smith and GoN....they are a nightmare for this.

Tammy needs a kick up the backside...not good enough young man...get moving not just when the ball is coming into the box.

As for Tomlin....hmmmmmm....less said at the moment.

Even if our chances had been put away last night, it could have so easily been 3 or 4... I would have still said the same things. There's more movement in my bowels this morning than I witnessed last night ;-)

I've been impressed by Josh Brownhill, would like to see him get more game time. ODowda seems to have disappeared. 

Agree with the lack of movement. There were many times I was shouting, "You're on your own, my love" when someone on the wing, started an attack.

[joeyb]

I've not been to a game since Reading but I just feel we lack balance in midfield and believe that fixing this would solve a large portion of our problems.

I'll make a comparison to Man Utd. Until recently, Mourinho didn't know his best midfield and was chopping and changing the likes of Pogba, Fellaini, Herrera, Schneiderlin and Carrick as the midfield 2 with Rooney ahead. Pogba is the standout player and is who they are looking to build the team around. It seems based on the last few performances that he has found the right balance which is Carrick and Herrera with Pogba given a license in the "no. 10" role. Carrick sitting in front of the defence and Herrera in the busy role, closing down and getting involved in defensive and attacking plays all over the pitch. This then gives Pogba a license to roam and influence the game.

Back to City, we have similarly been chopping and changing the midfield two between Pack, Smith, O'Neil and Reid largely. As with Man Utd and Pogba, we should be building our team around Tomlin. I know he doesn't offer a lot defensively but he is our best player and the one who is best placed to influence games and win matches with the talent he has. 

Of the 4 mentioned midfield players, I believe we should be playing one of Pack or O'Neil in the "Carrick - holding role" and Reid or Smith in the box-to-box role with Tomlin as no.10. Any other combination leaves us with problems. Playing both Pack and O'Neil makes us slow, predictable and easy to defend against and shut out. Playing Reid and Smith leaves us exposed and without much defensive/positioning nous.

I don't really have a preference of Pack or O'Neil but leaning slightly towards Pack for his extra height but from what I've seen since his comeback in the Brighton game, Smith just isn't at it atm so we have to go with Reid who played the position really well for a spell near the beginning of the season but he must be reminded of his defensive/pressing duties. Playing Tomlin on the left isn't working, he must be central (and must be playing) and I believe that playing Reid in the midfield two also provides more of a link between the midfield and Tomlin/Tammy which perhaps Smith doesn't offer.

Edit: I must also add that I think LJ should pick his midfield two now, work on it hard in training and give them a good 3-5 games as a pairing to build up the relationship in midfield and give time to get used to each others game and find the right balance.

[Honiton Tony]

10 hours ago, shelts said:

LJ  is coming in for some major stick on here and always seems to pick Freeman . Cards on table I don't think Freeman is good enough at this level and would love to be proved wrong as I think he has the talent at Championship level . Tonight he was tidy 

Do you think he is good enough yes or no .......... I am confused 

[Red Cloud]

11 hours ago, shelts said:

I'm worried. Transfer window in January can't come quick enough. 

No real decent width apart from Mathews at the club. 

 

I'm worried that regardless who we bring in, our tactics, formations, substitutions etc... are so bizarre at times, it won't make the blindest bit of difference!

[Red-Robbo]

Freeman was great on the wing. Lovely linking play with Matthews and actually cutting in on the diagonal rather than running aimlessly at a right-angle to the goal. Pulled off a decent shot too, which required a tidy save.

Unfortunately, just as I was enjoying the new, improved Freeman - and during a spell of play that we were totally dominant - Johnson decides to make a "tactical" substitution that left us all over the place and utterly shapelessly.

Bob was stuck pointlessly out on the right-wing and Freeman seemed to be occupying some sort of ill-defined, vaguely left-sided deep midfield role. Suddenly the steam went out of us and Brentford were able to score with a typically quick break, bypassing our players who'd been sent out-of-position on the manager's orders. And as noted, Pack, who was supplying some very useful passes was taken off, but Korey Smith, whois still not quite there, was left in situ.

Now I know Tammy missed some absolute sitters (and actually hooked the ball away from their goal in the first half!) but before the double sub I had been quite confident that with the amount of chances we were creating we would eventually score - or at very worst, keep them pinned back.

So, in summary I completely disagree with the OP. We weren't "diabolical" by any means and the two Brentford lads who were watching the game and are friends of mine agreed we were on-top for most of the game.  Had open goals not been missed it could've been 4-2 quite easily. However, Tammy was having an off-day, we have no-one else near his calibre, and Johnson inadvertently sabotaged us just when we had them on the run.

[The Coach]

Good morning to all and merry xmas.

Didn't share my opinion of the game last night as I feel frustration can you make you slightly exaggerate and make you post some abnormal comments.

Well where to start?

No movement at all. Brentford ran forward with the ball with no attempt of any City player to press them. We sat there and invited the pressure in the final third. Woeful defending at times from Golbourne and Magnusson, with one chance almost allowing them to score but with a fantastic save from Fielding. Golbourne and Bryan had an absolute shocker, couldn't even tell Bryan was on the pitch. Just stood by the half way line, and made no attempt to make a run forward.

When we did have the ball, Brentford reacted straight away and pressed each City player constantly, which is the tactic I like to see. Korey Smith reminded me of Cole Skuse tonight. No forward passes, constantly looking for the side and back pass. Seems as his attitude last night said "Oh, don't give me the ball I don't want it." Looking a shadow of his former self. Reid ran round a bit with little end product, missed a sitter AGAIN. 

Abraham has lost that spark, made some good touches at times but still quite disappointing. Also missed a sitter. I do feel we rely too much on this young man, and it's a shame we place all our eggs in a 19 year old. It could (or should depending how you look at it) of been a game we could of won 4-2 or so. 

Our football in general is poor. We don't run forward, we don't use width, we seem to just pass side and backwards, no energy, no commitment, no desire, and no reaction to the ball. What bugs me is Johnson made a comment in the summer of bringing in players with the right "intelligence". I'd like to hear him explain by what he means? Because I see brain dead football players in this squad who lack creativity and a good footballing brain.

The tactics do not work, LJ has got it wrong again. Can't keep going on like this otherwise we will find ourselves in a relegation battle once more. Our midfield is not good enough for this league. The likes of Marlon Pack, Bobby Reid, Luke Freeman, and at the moment Korey Smith are not the players who will get you into the play-offs. You need players like Barry Bannan, Henri Lansbury, Steve Sidwell, and Graham Dorrans to find yourself in the top 6. From January 2017, to September 2017 we need an entire new midfield. And get rid of most of the others when the opportunity arises. 

As we know LJ talked about another two transfer windows to get his side "he wants" to challenge in this league. Being honest, I think it's going to take at least another four. 

Just like to mention also I was very impressed by Brentford's Number 15 last night, Ryan Woods (My Man of the Match). Played in a CDM role and made some fantastic forward runs with the ball. Seems one to watch along with Scott Hogan.

 

[Marlborough Red]

I hear that we have half season tickets on sale. It's 's Xmas and we have yet to score a goal in the first half of any home match from open play

Next year I want to buy a half season ticket  which allows me to watch only the Second Half of every home match.

 

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

Good morning to all and merry xmas.

Didn't share my opinion of the game last night as I feel frustration can you make you slightly exaggerate and make you post some abnormal comments.

Well where to start?

No movement at all. Brentford ran forward with the ball with no attempt of any City player to press them. We sat there and invited the pressure in the final third. Woeful defending at times from Golbourne and Magnusson, with one chance almost allowing them to score but with a fantastic save from Fielding. Golbourne and Bryan had an absolute shocker, couldn't even tell Bryan was on the pitch. Just stood by the half way line, and made no attempt to make a run forward.

When we did have the ball, Brentford reacted straight away and pressed each City player constantly, which is the tactic I like to see. Korey Smith reminded me of Cole Skuse tonight. No forward passes, constantly looking for the side and back pass. Seems as his attitude last night said "Oh, don't give me the ball I don't want it." Looking a shadow of his former self. Reid ran round a bit with little end product, missed a sitter AGAIN. 

Abraham has lost that spark, made some good touches at times but still quite disappointing. Also missed a sitter. I do feel we rely too much on this young man, and it's a shame we place all our eggs in a 19 year old. It could (or should depending how you look at it) of been a game we could of won 4-2 or so. 

Our football in general is poor. We don't run forward, we don't use width, we seem to just pass side and backwards, no energy, no commitment, no desire, and no reaction to the ball. What bugs me is Johnson made a comment in the summer of bringing in players with the right "intelligence". I'd like to hear him explain by what he means? Because I see brain dead football players in this squad who lack creativity and a good footballing brain.

The tactics do not work, LJ has got it wrong again. Can't keep going on like this otherwise we will find ourselves in a relegation battle once more. Our midfield is not good enough for this league. The likes of Marlon Pack, Bobby Reid, Luke Freeman, and at the moment Korey Smith are not the players who will get you into the play-offs. You need players like Barry Bannan, Henri Lansbury, Steve Sidwell, and Graham Dorrans to find yourself in the top 6. From January 2017, to September 2017 we need an entire new midfield. And get rid of most of the others when the opportunity arises. 

As we know LJ talked about another two transfer windows to get his side "he wants" to challenge in this league. Being honest, I think it's going to take at least another four. 

Just like to mention also I was very impressed by Brentford's Number 15 last night, Ryan Woods (My Man of the Match). Played in a CDM role and made some fantastic forward runs with the ball. Seems one to watch along with Scott Hogan.

 

How can you say the tactics did not work, when it was only the final kick or header, that stopped us from scoring? what 'tactic' is going to guarantee that final touch? We created the chances, we just didn't put them away. That's not 'tactics'...that's quality of finish and composure in front of goal.

Brentford didn't overrun us...we were two evenly matched teams. That game could have easily finished 4-4 or 0-0...a deflected shot was the difference.

I agree that the quality of players we have overall aren't good enough to be play off contenders...but what can you do about that until players become available in the transfer windows, want to come here, budget allows etc?

No other manager is going to be able to wave a magic wand and make those shots go in. No other 'tactic' is going to guarantee those goals.

Yes we are on a very bad run of results...and we are all frustrated. But changing managers and thinking we can just go and buy players as we choose, is not the answer, because it doesn't work or happen.

I agree...it could be a fair few more transfer windows to even think of realistically challenging in this league.

We have to be realistic...LJ is not going to be sacked, he's going to be given time. The Club are going down a different route. We may not like it...but it hasn't worked before, for a reason.

All we can do is pull together as fans and not put pressure on the players or managers. what's the point...it's just negative and disruptive and creates even more pressure.

Yes it's so frustrating...but there is no magic wand. It is what it is.

I looked at our fans walking out last night...frustrated, disappointed, faces in shock and disbelief at how we had not scored. It was an awful atmosphere all game. Even a smattering of boo's at the end.

I felt for some of those players at the end....young Magners came across to applaud the fans, hardly anyone was acknowledging them...you could see in the faces the disappointment, and some of their heads physically dropped at the reaction.

I really did feel for them...and thought there and then, that not only are those players fighting the opposition, they are also fighting our own fans for support.

It's a choice we have to make as fans... we either show our disapproval and frustration...and just support when we are winning...which lets be honest about this, we are the worst culprits for doing so....or we get behind the lads and LJ...back to the walls stuff and see it for what it is.

I always remember the support we had under Lennartssen when we were struggling. There was an air of 'we know we aren't good enough, but at least go down fighting'.

Not saying we are going down....far from it. But that realisation and support can only help.

If it was all going tits up behind the scenes and no one was pulling together etc, then I'd get it....but it isn't. The club as one are trying...it's just not good enough at the moment. But like I said...there is no magic wand of a manager that's going to come in and make us play off material over night with the playing staff we have at our disposal.

[exAtyeoMax]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

How can you say the tactics did not work, when it was only the final kick or header, that stopped us from scoring? what 'tactic' is going to guarantee that final touch? We created the chances, we just didn't put them away. That's not 'tactics'...that's quality of finish and composure in front of goal.

Brentford didn't overrun us...we were two evenly matched teams. That game could have easily finished 4-4 or 0-0...a deflected shot was the difference.

I agree that the quality of players we have overall aren't good enough to be play off contenders...but what can you do about that until players become available in the transfer windows, want to come here, budget allows etc?

No other manager is going to be able to wave a magic wand and make those shots go in. No other 'tactic' is going to guarantee those goals.

Yes we are on a very bad run of results...and we are all frustrated. But changing managers and thinking we can just go and buy players as we choose, is not the answer, because it doesn't work or happen.

I agree...it could be a fair few more transfer windows to even think of realistically challenging in this league.

We have to be realistic...LJ is not going to be sacked, he's going to be given time. The Club are going down a different route. We may not like it...but it hasn't worked before, for a reason.

All we can do is pull together as fans and not put pressure on the players or managers. what's the point...it's just negative and disruptive and creates even more pressure.

Yes it's so frustrating...but there is no magic wand. It is what it is.

I looked at our fans walking out last night...frustrated, disappointed, faces in shock and disbelief at how we had not scored. It was an awful atmosphere all game. Even a smattering of boo's at the end.

I felt for some of those players at the end....young Magners came across to applaud the fans, hardly anyone was acknowledging them...you could see in the faces the disappointment, and some of their heads physically dropped at the reaction.

I really did feel for them...and thought there and then, that not only are those players fighting the opposition, they are also fighting our own fans for support.

It's a choice we have to make as fans... we either show our disapproval and frustration...and just support when we are winning...which lets be honest about this, we are the worst culprits for doing so....or we get behind the lads and LJ...back to the walls stuff and see it for what it is.

I always remember the support we had under Lennartssen when we were struggling. There was an air of 'we know we aren't good enough, but at least go down fighting'.

Not saying we are going down....far from it. But that realisation and support can only help.

If it was all going tits up behind the scenes and no one was pulling together etc, then I'd get it....but it isn't. The club as one are trying...it's just not good enough at the moment. But like I said...there is no magic wand of a manager that's going to come in and make us play off material over night with the playing staff we have at our disposal.

But did those chances come before LJ changed the tactics/formation? I did notice the good link up between LF and AM, then is stopped. Some of those Tammy chances came when we hit them on the break, with a ball over the top. 

[The Coach]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

How can you say the tactics did not work, when it was only the final kick or header, that stopped us from scoring? what 'tactic' is going to guarantee that final touch? We created the chances, we just didn't put them away. That's not 'tactics'...that's quality of finish and composure in front of goal.

Brentford didn't overrun us...we were two evenly matched teams. That game could have easily finished 4-4 or 0-0...a deflected shot was the difference.

I agree that the quality of players we have overall aren't good enough to be play off contenders...but what can you do about that until players become available in the transfer windows, want to come here, budget allows etc?

No other manager is going to be able to wave a magic wand and make those shots go in. No other 'tactic' is going to guarantee those goals.

Yes we are on a very bad run of results...and we are all frustrated. But changing managers and thinking we can just go and buy players as we choose, is not the answer, because it doesn't work or happen.

I agree...it could be a fair few more transfer windows to even think of realistically challenging in this league.

We have to be realistic...LJ is not going to be sacked, he's going to be given time. The Club are going down a different route. We may not like it...but it hasn't worked before, for a reason.

All we can do is pull together as fans and not put pressure on the players or managers. what's the point...it's just negative and disruptive and creates even more pressure.

Yes it's so frustrating...but there is no magic wand. It is what it is.

I looked at our fans walking out last night...frustrated, disappointed, faces in shock and disbelief at how we had not scored. It was an awful atmosphere all game. Even a smattering of boo's at the end.

I felt for some of those players at the end....young Magners came across to applaud the fans, hardly anyone was acknowledging them...you could see in the faces the disappointment, and some of their heads physically dropped at the reaction.

I really did feel for them...and thought there and then, that not only are those players fighting the opposition, they are also fighting our own fans for support.

It's a choice we have to make as fans... we either show our disapproval and frustration...and just support when we are winning...which lets be honest about this, we are the worst culprits for doing so....or we get behind the lads and LJ...back to the walls stuff and see it for what it is.

I always remember the support we had under Lennartssen when we were struggling. There was an air of 'we know we aren't good enough, but at least go down fighting'.

Not saying we are going down....far from it. But that realisation and support can only help.

If it was all going tits up behind the scenes and no one was pulling together etc, then I'd get it....but it isn't. The club as one are trying...it's just not good enough at the moment. But like I said...there is no magic wand of a manager that's going to come in and make us play off material over night with the playing staff we have at our disposal.

 

I've never said in any post this season to sack LJ (that would be bizarre) . I don't expect a magic wand to solve the issues either. I agree with you I felt for some of them last night. I was disappointed people were booing and leaving early. Felt that was a tad extreme. 

However, look at the players brought in over the summer, and look at who played tonight. We may of signed young players for the future perhaps, but at the same time we needed better first team quality players this summer also. So I don't blame people for perhaps moaning on the transfer dealings this summer.

The tactics didn't work though did they? Joe Bryan seemed as if he was told to stay on the edge of the pitch and not make forward runs. We didn't press Brentford at all during each half. Granted 2nd half we came out a bit more to have a go while Brentford sat back a bit more. Their defence was weak and on a good day we could of easily put 3 past them. But the tactics weren't correct as the substitutions made shown that. So I don't understand how you can defend Johnson's original setup last night and previous matches. Our form is poor, we're not winning/drawing enough games, hence as a head coach you make tactical changes to get out of that situation. Conte done if for Chelsea earlier on in the season when results weren't going there way, and now they are looking Championship contenders in the PL.

Just to finish off, I agree with you that LJ will be given time. And at times like this it's going to be frustrating, and we may not agree with certain decisions as fans. But in the long run could be most rewarding. 

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year to you also @spudski

[reddoh]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Another frustrating night of football...would be so different if those chances had gone in. A few of them, it was easier to score than miss. Shocking night in front of goal.

Thought we look well organised when defending. A few individual lapses in concentration in decision making and making the wrong pass etc.

What disappointed me the most, was our movement off the ball when attacking. It is dire. Players going hiding or not moving to make an angle. So many just standing still.

Fans are heard to moan loudly when the ball gets passed backwards. The reason it's not going forward, is because of the lack of movement to make space, come and receive the ball or drag a player away to make space. The amount of times Bryan and Goldbourne had the ball with four players in front of them just ******* stood there. No option to pass to them, as Brentford just cut out the pass option. I would love to see the heat pattern movement of Tammy...he's become a lazy git. He doesn't leave the area of the 'D' and just sits on the shoulder of the CB.

Smith had an absolute shocker again...Goes into hiding...what has happened to him? Pack was so much better. Can't believe he got pulled off. Think LJ got that wrong.

Pretty much halfway through the season, and it's obvious now, that it's not formations or tactics that are the problem, but the actual quality of Individual players.

Certain areas need to be strengthened immediately. Obviously with transfer windows, budget and players being available, it's never going to be easy. Plus does anyone really want 'journeyman Championship Pro's' brought in...no we don't.

On this seasons performances only, the players that on a regular basis are proving their worth are Magners, Flint, Pack, Freeman, Reid, Tomlin, Tammy.

So many more need to up their game or be moved on. Bryan, Goldbourne and Matthews have all been disappointing this season.

Odowda, Paterson, Brownhill, Moore all for the future it seems.

I think we have the ability to remain mid table with these players, but they really need to all up their game and stop the silly decision making.

The biggest improvement though, needs to be in movement off the ball when on the attack...it is so,so poor. Often lazy...so many go hiding not wanting to receive a pass...they go behind a defender instead of making an angle...making the move break down and go backwards again. Watch Bryan and Smith and GoN....they are a nightmare for this.

Tammy needs a kick up the backside...not good enough young man...get moving not just when the ball is coming into the box.

As for Tomlin....hmmmmmm....less said at the moment.

Even if our chances had been put away last night, it could have so easily been 3 or 4... I would have still said the same things. There's more movement in my bowels this morning than I witnessed last night ;-)

I really wish you had left the last line out , I am trying to work out how your left back flicked one over your static midfield , to the left sided midfielder who was left alone to make your runs! and for the sake of any other family members who share your property, I hoped you showed composure and didn't miss a couple of s hiiters :-)

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Freeman was great on the wing. Lovely linking play with Matthews and actually cutting in on the diagonal rather than running aimlessly at a right-angle to the goal. Pulled off a decent shot too, which required a tidy save.

Unfortunately, just as I was enjoying the new, improved Freeman - and during a spell of play that we were totally dominant - Johnson decides to make a "tactical" substitution that left us all over the place and utterly shapelessly.

Bob was stuck pointlessly out on the right-wing and Freeman seemed to be occupying some sort of ill-defined, vaguely left-sided deep midfield role. Suddenly the steam went out of us and Brentford were able to score with a typically quick break, bypassing our players who'd been sent out-of-position on the manager's orders. And as noted, Pack, who was supplying some very useful passes was taken off, but Korey Smith, whois still not quite there, was left in situ.

Now I know Tammy missed some absolute sitters (and actually hooked the ball away from their goal in the first half!) but before the double sub I had been quite confident that with the amount of chances we were creating we would eventually score - or at very worst, keep them pinned back.

So, in summary I completely disagree with the OP. We weren't "diabolical" by any means and the two Brentford lads who were watching the game and are friends of mine agreed we were on-top for most of the game.  Had open goals not been missed it could've been 4-2 quite easily. However, Tammy was having an off-day, we have no-one else near his calibre, and Johnson inadvertently sabotaged us just when we had them on the run.

We were playing a midfield diamond with BR and LF inside right and left.