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I am not Captain Knee-Jerk but that was pathetic

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Olé

Olé

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5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I actually thought at 5pm yesterday "Why do I put myself through this? Spend hundreds of pounds just to make myself miserable."

To be fair I don't really have that same empty miserable feeling I used to get when we were unwatchable under S'OD and in years past. Honestly speaking this isn't a time where I question why I do it - I seem to have a very different feeling about recent performances that is something akin to screaming under water.

As the old saying goes "It's the hope that kills you", and with the money we spent and calibre of footballers we've assembled this season, I find myself naively excited every game (still was on Saturday) and then absolutely baffled and enraged by the tactics of "persevere stoically with what isn't working".

In a way when we were properly s**t you really could tune out and stop caring, knowing we would rise again, but I find the current performances unforgivable precisely because the ability and talent is there to care about, this supposedly is our rise yet we've decided to treat it like a tactical training session instead.

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Esmond Million's Bung

Esmond Million's Bung

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17 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think you are being a bit uncharacteristically negative there, Rob.

Not only did we totally dominate possession before the first goal, but we did create chances. Tammy alone had two in the first 20, one - again - a one-on-one (with half the net beckoning) that he managed to stuff up.We did get more shots on target than Preston. Worry about a pathetic performance when, like the Gas, your opposition keeper has no shots to save. The RB texter who said their MOTM was the shredded wheat was the only person who made me laugh this afternoon.

Runs off the ball WERE being made for half of the first half, but as I assert in my Confidence thread, after their goal, the siege mentality started: All the fluidity, aggression and skill went out the window. Another loss beckoned and our players, rather than being spurred to fight harder, were terrified. We retreated like a turtle to our shells. We played the ball about in our half like we were running the clock down, rather than chasing the game. And - as ever - Grayson managed to con the ref and break the flow up, by having his players sit down all over the place "injured". Very tough for an official to let play continue with a man down and holding his leg in apparent agony.

One problem you touch on is our striker situation. We depend so much on Tammy that when he is going through a barren patch, we have little else. Analogous to our over-reliance on JET a few seasons ago, we only have a useful-but-ageing guy and a not-quite-ready guy to play up front. Major, major close season balls up, that scenario.

We will have to spend VERY big in January to attract a decent second choice striker here. We also need a proven-at-this-level goalie and - if the right man is available - a new left back. Fingers and everything else crossed.

 

You forgot the most important ingredient at least 2 central midfielders ours at present are unfit for purpose IMO, we need a stronger and better quality midfield is not and will never be consistent enough.

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redsfan

redsfan

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7 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Having a Barnsleyite confirm they've seen it all before might be reassuring though as he seemed to turn it around there - eventually.

The trouble with that statement is that you will struggle to find many Barnsley fans who credit LJ with turning things around.  We were playing with no width, and with the pedestrian build up that bored everyone to tears and was so easy to defend, and LJ had taken us to the bottom of the league in early December with that philosophy, with a cup defeat to Altrincham to boot that was, quite literally, the most miserable I have ever been at a football match.  He showed absolutely no inclination to change things - his way was right and the players would get it in the end.  He overthinks the game because he thinks he is a master coach.  It didn't matter that we were a side at the bottom of L1, not Manchester City, the good coach manual said that this was how it should be done.

Then, Adam Hammill's agent knocked on our door and begged for a short term contract to get him back into football after being shown the door at Huddersfield, and the board basically landed Hammill on LJ.

Hammill single handedly won us a few games over the Christmas period and confidence picked up a bit, and then LJ left.  Talk about a  lucky break.  He should have been sacked after the Altrincham debacle. Heckingbottom took over and the rest is history.  But I am convinced that  had LJ stayed, and in particular, had Hammill not begged us for a game, we would have been relegated to L2.  No way on earth would we have been promoted and be where we are now.

There is no doubt in my mind that Heckingbottom is a FAR better manager than LJ will ever be.  With a fraction of your resources, we are playing open fast attacking football.  We are naïve defensively sometimes and it has let us down a few times this year.  We make too many mistakes that wouldn't have cost us last year but do cost us this year. But overall, watching Barnsley in 2016, since LJ left, has been a  joy and I would not swap Heckingbottom for LJ and several million quid.  No way.  I actually enjoy going to Oakwell these days.

I really hope for your sake that he turns it around as I have no axe to grind with the man, and have no problem with you guys and hope you do well.  Sadly though, I just don't see it happening.  He will continue to overthink everything to the point where none of the players will have a clue what they are meant to be doing. When he manages to wangle the top job at Manchester City as Pep's replacement, then his good coaching manual might do the trick.  But at Barnsley, and at Bristol City, you need a plan B.  He hasn't got one.

 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You forgot the most important ingredient at least 2 central midfielders ours at present are unfit for purpose IMO, we need a stronger and better quality midfield is not and will never be consistent enough.

Yep. We need a Hartleyesque character. 

A midfield general.  GON has some good characteristics, but he ain't that.

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

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1 hour ago, redsfan said:

The trouble with that statement is that you will struggle to find many Barnsley fans who credit LJ with turning things around.  We were playing with no width, and with the pedestrian build up that bored everyone to tears and was so easy to defend, and LJ had taken us to the bottom of the league in early December with that philosophy, with a cup defeat to Altrincham to boot that was, quite literally, the most miserable I have ever been at a football match.  He showed absolutely no inclination to change things - his way was right and the players would get it in the end.  He overthinks the game because he thinks he is a master coach.  It didn't matter that we were a side at the bottom of L1, not Manchester City, the good coach manual said that this was how it should be done.

He will continue to overthink everything to the point where none of the players will have a clue what they are meant to be doing. When he manages to wangle the top job at Manchester City as Pep's replacement, then his good coaching manual might do the trick.  But at Barnsley, and at Bristol City, you need a plan B.  He hasn't got one.

 

Good & Interesting Post @redsfan

My exact concerns , said it number of times we play with no width and try and pass straight through the penalty box width up the pitch , with short intricate passing

To do this you need top players with the neccessary technical ability

We havnt got them ( Not a big criticism as few Champ sides do , but then they don't play that way) and it may work with Toure / Silva / De Bruyne etc

Not quite the same with Pack / Smith / Reid etc ( Tomlin poss the one who can play  it)

Great attractive philosophy when you have the technically capable players , who buy in to it , are prepared to work hard on training ground , are coached very well, and it clicks - As you say we (Now us) are not Man City where even Pep is struggling a tad to implement his philosophy with full success

In the games I've got to sides are increasingly pressing on us and the players are not quite good enough ( at present time at least) to cope , we make errors and lose possession 

You can tell Lee was at Arsenal as a teen !

 

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Irish_Red

Irish_Red

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I went to my first match yesterday as I no longer live in the U.K. I tweeted this at full time...

@bcfctweets possibly one the most abject and passionless performances I've seen. I've been a fan for over 35 years and I've seen a few.

for the first 20 mins we had possession and a few chances... then PNE realised that they could play against us and it went downhill from there.

Both goals came down the left hand side... the defense was offered very little protection from the midfield. I think as a back line our defense isn't bad but with nothing in front of them they are very exposed. Thought Matthews was quite good and looked fairly solid. Bryan didn't do enough, didn't drive on and was caught in no mans land too many times.

Gary O'Neill spent a lot of time berating people but not a lot else and Pack didn't have anything to aim at as he had Tammy ahead of him and another 4 players out of position. Tomlin got deeper and deeper but again had nothing to aim at.

Lucic was the most worrying. Young guy and learning his trade but his distribution (or lack of kicking) put us under pressure way to much and was the result of their second goal.

Tammy needs support up front and we need a guy in midfield to win the ball. I think the most pressing issue is we don't have a shape, a style of play, no pressing. I remember games gone by where the last 5 minutes of game would be a grandstand finish... nothing yesterday...

I'm not doom and gloom but it's worrying...

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Engvall's Splinter

Engvall's Splinter

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2 hours ago, redsfan said:

The trouble with that statement is that you will struggle to find many Barnsley fans who credit LJ with turning things around.  We were playing with no width, and with the pedestrian build up that bored everyone to tears and was so easy to defend, and LJ had taken us to the bottom of the league in early December with that philosophy, with a cup defeat to Altrincham to boot that was, quite literally, the most miserable I have ever been at a football match.  He showed absolutely no inclination to change things - his way was right and the players would get it in the end.  He overthinks the game because he thinks he is a master coach.  It didn't matter that we were a side at the bottom of L1, not Manchester City, the good coach manual said that this was how it should be done.

Then, Adam Hammill's agent knocked on our door and begged for a short term contract to get him back into football after being shown the door at Huddersfield, and the board basically landed Hammill on LJ.

Hammill single handedly won us a few games over the Christmas period and confidence picked up a bit, and then LJ left.  Talk about a  lucky break.  He should have been sacked after the Altrincham debacle. Heckingbottom took over and the rest is history.  But I am convinced that  had LJ stayed, and in particular, had Hammill not begged us for a game, we would have been relegated to L2.  No way on earth would we have been promoted and be where we are now.

There is no doubt in my mind that Heckingbottom is a FAR better manager than LJ will ever be.  With a fraction of your resources, we are playing open fast attacking football.  We are naïve defensively sometimes and it has let us down a few times this year.  We make too many mistakes that wouldn't have cost us last year but do cost us this year. But overall, watching Barnsley in 2016, since LJ left, has been a  joy and I would not swap Heckingbottom for LJ and several million quid.  No way.  I actually enjoy going to Oakwell these days.

I really hope for your sake that he turns it around as I have no axe to grind with the man, and have no problem with you guys and hope you do well.  Sadly though, I just don't see it happening.  He will continue to overthink everything to the point where none of the players will have a clue what they are meant to be doing. When he manages to wangle the top job at Manchester City as Pep's replacement, then his good coaching manual might do the trick.  But at Barnsley, and at Bristol City, you need a plan B.  He hasn't got one.

 

Bodes well for us. 

 

Thanks for the insight. Majority of the mob on here our blinkered re Johnson and refuse criticism to be thrown his way. 

 

We we are currently sh**e. Have been most of the season. Since ran out of luck. As a tiny few have said, last year couldn't get much worse and it seems the manager bounce saw us through to staying up. 

 

Talks a good game. I'll give him that. 

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Portland Bill

Portland Bill

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2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Yep. We need a Hartleyesque character. 

A midfield general.  GON has some good characteristics, but he ain't that.

We do, but unless we get some pacey wide men ( right footed on the right,left.. etc) the new midfield general won't have anyone to pass forward too. When was the last time we saw a ball played inside an opposition full back this season by one of our central midfielders?!

 

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Guest

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45 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Yes we have, Brighton at home...

My mistake (and don't I feel a silly boy with it being a recentish game), but in my defence, top rated team and one game - if we were losing regularly by more than one goal, then there would be something to worry about.

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Nogbad the Bad

Nogbad the Bad

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50 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Looks like the flappers have come out of hibernation early.

Haven't lost a game by more than a goal this season and mid table ish - yeah, that's relegation form :facepalm:

Not sure many are talking relegation at the moment, but there's real disappointment, bafflement and little or no reason for optimism that things will improve in the near future.

Though far from certain, we'll probably stay up but with little evidence of progression, leaving the prospect of a reduction in enthusiasm and ST's for next season because the football on offer is not good quality, it's not successful and for huge chunks of matches it's not entertaining.

From selection, to tactics, to substitutions the whole experience of watching City is increasingly bewildering and frustrating.

Forgetting our 'flapping' fans for a moment, how about giving your views on redfans' comments?

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Frenchay Red

Frenchay Red

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47 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

if we were losing regularly by more than one goal, then there would be something to worry about.

How ridiculous. It's the losing regularly that is the cause for concern. The fact that the defeats are by one goal doesn't diminish the poor run we are having.

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pnefcok

pnefcok

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4 hours ago, redsfan said:

There is no doubt in my mind that Heckingbottom is a FAR better manager than LJ will ever be.  With a fraction of your resources, we are playing open fast attacking football.  We are naïve defensively sometimes and it has let us down a few times this year.  We make too many mistakes that wouldn't have cost us last year but do cost us this year. But overall, watching Barnsley in 2016, since LJ left, has been a  joy and I would not swap Heckingbottom for LJ and several million quid.  No way.  I actually enjoy going to Oakwell these days.

The bit in bold is the most important and why I can understand frustrations towards Johnson from Bristol City supporters. Grayson with us and Heckingbottom with Barnsley are above Bristol City in the league, working on a shoestring in comparison to what Johnson was able to spend over the summer.

The cost of our starting 11 on Saturday was approximately just over 500k. As for the City 11 I'm not sure what it cost but 10 mil+ must've been spent over the summer. Perhaps Johnson isn't using those resources very wisely?

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Benni

Benni

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2 hours ago, Irish_Red said:

I went to my first match yesterday as I no longer live in the U.K. I tweeted this at full time...

@bcfctweets possibly one the most abject and passionless performances I've seen. I've been a fan for over 35 years and I've seen a few.

for the first 20 mins we had possession and a few chances... then PNE realised that they could play against us and it went downhill from there.

Both goals came down the left hand side... the defense was offered very little protection from the midfield. I think as a back line our defense isn't bad but with nothing in front of them they are very exposed. Thought Matthews was quite good and looked fairly solid. Bryan didn't do enough, didn't drive on and was caught in no mans land too many times.

Gary O'Neill spent a lot of time berating people but not a lot else and Pack didn't have anything to aim at as he had Tammy ahead of him and another 4 players out of position. Tomlin got deeper and deeper but again had nothing to aim at.

Lucic was the most worrying. Young guy and learning his trade but his distribution (or lack of kicking) put us under pressure way to much and was the result of their second goal.

Tammy needs support up front and we need a guy in midfield to win the ball. I think the most pressing issue is we don't have a shape, a style of play, no pressing. I remember games gone by where the last 5 minutes of game would be a grandstand finish... nothing yesterday...

I'm not doom and gloom but it's worrying...

This is so obvious but not too many here that can see it.

Lee is being criticised heavily and although the criticism is understandable it's very much over the top. And what's this with so many agreeing with the Barnsley fan who is clearly still upset about Lee leaving? 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

We do, but unless we get some pacey wide men ( right footed on the right,left.. etc) the new midfield general won't have anyone to pass forward too. When was the last time we saw a ball played inside an opposition full back this season by one of our central midfielders?!

 

We have wingers. Pacey wingers. Johnson rarely plays them as such though. Or even on their preferred side of the pitch :grr:

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Sixtyseconds

Sixtyseconds

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Sky Sports ... Playing well.

Yeah but when a lynch mob is being formed that playing well become a pathetically well.

Admitting that Joe Bryan might have been half handy at the start would require backing up v the Otib tide.

Easier to just go along with the flock.


People want some meat.

And there are presents to wrap.

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Portland Bill

Portland Bill

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17 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

We have wingers. Pacey wingers. Johnson rarely plays them as such though. Or even on their preferred side of the pitch :grr:

O Dowda ( possibly Joe Brian ) is the only actual winger I can think of, but he's left footed and likes to play on the right! Hence why he comes back on himself. 

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Guest

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On 18/12/2016 at 22:55, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not sure many are talking relegation at the moment, but there's real disappointment, bafflement and little or no reason for optimism that things will improve in the near future.

Though far from certain, we'll probably stay up but with little evidence of progression, leaving the prospect of a reduction in enthusiasm and ST's for next season because the football on offer is not good quality, it's not successful and for huge chunks of matches it's not entertaining.

From selection, to tactics, to substitutions the whole experience of watching City is increasingly bewildering and frustrating.

Forgetting our 'flapping' fans for a moment, how about giving your views on redfans' comments?

Ok, to comment on redfans comments.

Clearly a Barnsley fan.

Joined otib January 7th (the day after LJ came our way) and appears to have 6 posts.

But why oh why did he wait till September to make his first post - has his chain has been pulled because Barnsley have been tainted?

Did he congratulate LJ (or our club) on getting us off to a great start?

No, the next commentary is for this thread, that some might say, was what he's been waiting for. To view his points, it reads like a 'You were warned', 'I told you so' etc. It's the sort of comment thread that reeks of someone with a big chip on their shoulder.

Our form at the beginning of the season was great. Our form at the moment, let's face it, it's shit. What I can say is that we aren't getting caned and this gives me some optimism that we don't have much to worry about. When we start getting beat by 2-3 on a regular basis, then I'll start to worry. In the meantime, I'm not going to be a flapper.

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RumRed

RumRed

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Ok, to comment on redfans comments.

Clearly a Barnsley fan.

Joined otib January 7th (the day after LJ came our way) and appears to have 6 posts.

But why oh why did he wait till September to make his first post - has his chain has been pulled because Barnsley have been tainted?

Did he congratulate LJ (or our club) on getting us off to a great start?

No, the next commentary is for this thread, that some might say, was what he's been waiting for. To view his points, it reads like a 'You were warned', 'I told you so' etc. It's the sort of comment thread that reeks of someone with a big chip on their shoulder.

Our form at the beginning of the season was great. Our form at the moment, let's face it, it's shit. What I can say is that we aren't getting caned and this gives me some optimism that we don't have much to worry about. When we start getting beat by 2-3 on a regular basis, then I'll start to worry. In the meantime, I'm not going to be a flapper.

Based on current results GD ain't going to mean much.

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