I am not Captain Knee-Jerk but that was pathetic

[Olé]

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

I think you are being a bit uncharacteristically negative there, Rob.

Not only did we totally dominate possession before the first goal, but we did create chances. Tammy alone had two in the first 20, one - again - a one-on-one (with half the net beckoning) that he managed to stuff up.We did get more shots on target than Preston. Worry about a pathetic performance when, like the Gas, your opposition keeper has no shots to save. The RB texter who said their MOTM was the shredded wheat was the only person who made me laugh this afternoon.

Runs off the ball WERE being made for half of the first half, but as I assert in my Confidence thread, after their goal, the siege mentality started: All the fluidity, aggression and skill went out the window. Another loss beckoned and our players, rather than being spurred to fight harder, were terrified. We retreated like a turtle to our shells. We played the ball about in our half like we were running the clock down, rather than chasing the game. And - as ever - Grayson managed to con the ref and break the flow up, by having his players sit down all over the place "injured". Very tough for an official to let play continue with a man down and holding his leg in apparent agony.

One problem you touch on is our striker situation. We depend so much on Tammy that when he is going through a barren patch, we have little else. Analogous to our over-reliance on JET a few seasons ago, we only have a useful-but-ageing guy and a not-quite-ready guy to play up front. Major, major close season balls up, that scenario.

We will have to spend VERY big in January to attract a decent second choice striker here. We also need a proven-at-this-level goalie and - if the right man is available - a new left back. Fingers and everything else crossed.

 

[pnefcok]

Just wondering what has happened to Korey Smith?

Been top class whenever I've seen him for either you or Oldham.

[shelts]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

Wow. So much rubbish in your post I don't know where to start...so I won't 

[shelts]

3 minutes ago, pnefcok said:

Just wondering what has happened to Korey Smith?

Been top class whenever I've seen him for either you or Oldham.

Injured. Injury prone no pre season. Shadow of himself. 

[Olé]

18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think you are being a bit uncharacteristically negative there, Rob.

Not only did we totally dominate possession before the first goal, but we did create chances. Tammy alone had two in the first 20, one - again - a one-on-one (with half the net beckoning) that he managed to stuff up.We did get more shots on target than Preston. 

Perhaps I am mate, but (possibly like you) that is two 6 hour round trips in less than a week, to see these performances. At some point you do need to ask if these players aren't good enough or the tactics are limiting our ability to score goals and dominate games. I think it's the latter, since we're not doing either.

Tammy's great chance in the first half was also our only chance prior to the goal. I've seen the stats that show we had more shots on target than Preston and I'm amazed. The game I saw they had the best chances by a country mile (both on and off target). I don't remember being close besides Tammy onto the post.

I won't sleep well tonight thinking I'm negative, but today just felt like such a cheap defeat. Perhaps I'm in Scrooge mode. Happy Xmas to you all!

[reddoc]

I think the post is accurate, obviously a little late getting to the party, and not sure why you feel the need to insult those who've made similar observations previously as 'knee jerk'. Personally I'd question the amount of quality we have in the squad, I think we've recruited a lot of very similar, very average players, which is why we have limited options off the bench. Essentially we're able to bring on someone slightly worse than the player going off, or Wilbraham.

[Rob k]

All entitled to an opinion so I've no issue with yours, mine is I've seen a hell of a lot worse than that over the last decade and I think we're just a little short on confidence and a few players of real quality that can make a real impact at this level.

we desperately need that extra striker in Jan that much is obvious 

[havanatopia]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

One problem you touch on is our striker situation. We depend so much on Tammy that when he is going through a barren patch, we have little else. Analogous to our over-reliance on JET a few seasons ago, we only have a useful-but-ageing guy and a not-quite-ready guy to play up front. Major, major close season balls up, that scenario.

We will have to spend VERY big in January to attract a decent second choice striker here. We also need a proven-at-this-level goalie and - if the right man is available - a new left back. Fingers and everything else crossed.

 

True enough on the striker situation. We were damned if we sold Kodjia, too late in the window for us to get a replacement in, and damned if we did not as his head was already turned. But we were already light of one striker and we should have already recruited one long before he had gone. This is issue number one and you will all recall that LJ himself said 'its not an ideal situation' but then somewhat contradicted himself by saying 'I am happy with what I have got'.

3 hours ago, reddoc said:

Personally I'd question the amount of quality we have in the squad, I think we've recruited a lot of very similar, very average players, which is why we have limited options off the bench. Essentially we're able to bring on someone slightly worse than the player going off, or Wilbraham.

I never thought O'Neil was going to be the long term 'creative midfielder' solution alone. And that last word is the crucial one. Was he not brought in for that? Maybe I am wrong but we have still, on overall evidence, yet to replace Wade Elliott with a Championship or Prem standard creative midfielder. 

I do not think we can be too downhearted overall given there was never going to be a fully finished team in one window as LJ has reminded us more than once; which begs the question why is he apologising? Like I said on another thread, just get on with it Lee; we are in a nasty spiral but January is just around the corner and transfer window number two is looking all the more important and all the more difficult given our failure to get that striker and midfielder and given our league position, respectively.

p.s. As many others have said I think we need a new goalie as well. 

Robbo, i think, suggested a new left back.. Q: is Golbourne not good enough?

[Xiled]

Being down in the relegation places at Christmas would give us more problems with January signings. 

We're all struggling with what might have been after some good results at the start of the season. The problem is we were a long way short of the team we need to even consider promotion. Being up there was great but being promoted would have hurt us horribly in 17/18 (except for the income). We need to be worthy of the top six finish, not just fluke it. 

And finally, @Olé you said way back at the start of the autumn that our play was toothless. We were often flattering to deceive and we lacked that killer eye for goal. I've felt the same from the start partly because we were chasing so many games for late goals.

Huge fan of Lee Johnson and I really want him to succeed. A similar bad run at Barnsley in L1 didn't do them much harm but he now faces the biggest test of his managerial career. Having the strength of mind to settle on a formation and a first eleven is part of that test.

[BCFC Grim]

6 hours ago, Olé said:

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

One word in that post stands out, PACE. We have none. We also don't move the ball quick enough which would help with this problem.

I agree with most of what you've said, although I would say the the first 20 minutes was as good as I've seen us this season. After that it was pathetic (again). We are in December and he doesn't know his best formation/11 and we are yet to score a goal from open play at home in the first half. Quite simple embarrassing.

[redsfan]

12 hours ago, Olé said:

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

I am getting a feeling of Deja Vue here.  You could literally have copied most of that from a thread on the Barnsley BBS, circa 1 year ago.

Average team trying to play like Barcelona - check

Doesn't know his best 11 - check

One up front, even when it  doesn't work - check

playing it around the back with no penetration - check

No pace - check

labouring a philosophy - check

Terrible losing streak - check.

The only one you didn't mention is the playing players hopeless out of position.

Everyone seems to have this idea that he "will" be a good manager.  I just think he talks a good game and has been incredibly lucky to fool so many people for so long now. Still can't believe you paid us to get rid of him - I was desperate for him to go.

 

[robin_unreliant]

Have to say a lot of things in the OP chime exactly with how I feel. Too much time spent on possession and not enough on being effective at both ends of the pitch. Yes we often play nice football but no cutting edge. Don't get me started on crossing - generally pathetic.

Having a Barnsleyite confirm they've seen it all before might be reassuring though as he seemed to turn it around there - eventually.

[Red-Robbo]

6 hours ago, havanatopia said:

 

Robbo, i think, suggested a new left back.. Q: is Golbourne not good enough?

In my view, Golborne is - at his best - a bang average Championship player. Nothing amazing, but competent enough to hold that position.  However,  like Joe,  when his confidence dips he may as well not be on the pitch. On Tuesday he was dreadful - and Joe wasn't much better yesterday.  If someone who can nail that position is available,  then I think we should have a dabble.  

9 hours ago, Olé said:

Perhaps I am mate, but (possibly like you) that is two 6 hour round trips in less than a week, to see these performances. At some point you do need to ask if these players aren't good enough or the tactics are limiting our ability to score goals and dominate games. I think it's the latter, since we're not doing either.

Tammy's great chance in the first half was also our only chance prior to the goal. I've seen the stats that show we had more shots on target than Preston and I'm amazed. The game I saw they had the best chances by a country mile (both on and off target). I don't remember being close besides Tammy onto the post.

I won't sleep well tonight thinking I'm negative, but today just felt like such a cheap defeat. Perhaps I'm in Scrooge mode. Happy Xmas to you all!

I feel your pain, man.

I actually thought at 5pm yesterday "Why do I put myself through this? Spend hundreds of pounds just to make myself miserable." I could have been in a nice warm cottage, with a nice hot wife and a nice warming glass of Aberfeldy....

We need some good times, don't we?!

Happy Christmas. 

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, BCFC Grim said:

One word in that post stands out, PACE. We have none. We also don't move the ball quick enough which would help with this problem.

I agree with most of what you've said, although I would say the the first 20 minutes was as good as I've seen us this season. After that it was pathetic (again). We are in December and he doesn't know his best formation/11 and we are yet to score a goal from open play at home in the first half. Quite simple embarrassing.

Tend to agree Grim.  Reminds me of the Liverpool side from a few years back that became pedestrian under Benitez, only being saved by heroic individual performances by Gerrard and Torres.

Back to City, Matthews impressed me again yesterday, but why was it only the last 20 minutes that he got beyond his midfielder.  When he dud that we created overlaps and also he can pick a pass when he gets the right run in front of him. Maybe he's just turned corner of fitness and believes he is fit.  Freeman was decent again, linking up well, but let himself down with 2 poor crosses straight to keeper in opening 15 minutes.  His movement off the ball is good.  

We aren't playing badly but when it isn't going for you you lose games you don't deserve to.  Johnson's shot was a sliced cross.  Of course Lucic shouldn't gave committed himself to the cross, but it was a complete fluke.

[Dynamite Red]

Spot on Olé. 

The football is so tedious, watching our back four passing it side ways back and forth gets rather dull after a while. Zero penetration or movement. I was staring at the scoreboard yesterday counting down the minutes, board stiff.  There needs to be some major changes in either philosophy, players or god forbid we mention the elephant in the room, the manager.

[ChippenhamRed]

12 hours ago, shelts said:

Wow. So much rubbish in your post I don't know where to start...so I won't 

As someone who hasn't managed to get to many games recently, I thought @Olé's post was articulate and insightful.

Shame you couldn't be as articulate with your response.

[JamesBCFC]

12 hours ago, Olé said:

Perhaps I am mate, but (possibly like you) that is two 6 hour round trips in less than a week, to see these performances. At some point you do need to ask if these players aren't good enough or the tactics are limiting our ability to score goals and dominate games. I think it's the latter, since we're not doing either.

Tammy's great chance in the first half was also our only chance prior to the goal. I've seen the stats that show we had more shots on target than Preston and I'm amazed. The game I saw they had the best chances by a country mile (both on and off target). I don't remember being close besides Tammy onto the post.

I won't sleep well tonight thinking I'm negative, but today just felt like such a cheap defeat. Perhaps I'm in Scrooge mode. Happy Xmas to you all!

I missed the first 5 minutes (walked in as there was a penalty shout) and we had 3 good chances to score before they did in the time i was there

[Jack Dawe]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

In my view, Golborne is - at his best - a bang average Championship player. Nothing amazing, but competent enough to hold that position.  However,  like Joe,  when his confidence dips he may as well not be on the pitch. On Tuesday he was dreadful - and Joe wasn't much better yesterday.  If someone who can nail that position is available,  then I think we should have a dabble.  

I feel your pain, man.

I actually thought at 5pm yesterday "Why do I put myself through this? Spend hundreds of pounds just to make myself miserable." I could have been in a nice warm cottage, with a nice hot wife and a nice warming glass of Aberfeldy....

We need some good times, don't we?!

Happy Christmas. 

Bring your hot wife, keep you warm, and the grateful bloke the other side of her. Til the warm weather returns

[Jack Dawe]

14 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

As someone who hasn't managed to get to many games recently, I thought @Olé's post was articulate and insightful.

Shame you couldn't be as articulate with your response.

He didn't know where to start mate, tbf

[Dorset_Cider]

In a nutshell...

Oh, we lost again.

[Jack Dawe]

@Olé, you were Capn Knee Jerk. After the Burton game. Sadly, as things stand right now, looks like you might have been on to something.

[shelts]

40 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

As someone who hasn't managed to get to many games recently, I thought @Olé's post was articulate and insightful.

Shame you couldn't be as articulate with your response.

Mmm 

[pillred]

15 hours ago, Olé said:

Apologies for starting another thread, but I find myself in a bit of no mans land - I think my record shows that I'm generally positive and constructive and look for the best in what we do on the pitch and report as accurately as I can, and am among the least likely to don my Captain Knee-Jerk cape. 

Yet however I try, I can't convince myself today was anything other than one of the most pathetic performances of the past decade, and that LJ needs his "young up and coming innovative tactician" pass revoked until he can demonstrate he can make people win, regardless of "clever" tactics. 

I can hear the keyboards clattering now, so let me just qualify my statement - we've had some diabolical teams playing hopeless football (under O'Driscoll and others) but today to me is more criminal: we've clearly assembled a deep and talented squad, yet are playing such a feeble type of football.

"WE WERE ALL OVER THEM FOR THE FIRST 20 MINUTES". No, we dominated possession, but how many chances did we create? How often was their keeper tested? It was a charade. Good interplay, zero end product. The first 20 minutes only served to show that we can pass a bit outside the box.

The single most important lesson from today is that Preston did not stop us playing, we beat ourselves - and that can only sit with how LJ asks them to play. Our attacks were not well defended, they just never registered, since we pontificated and passed until basic percentages says you give it away.

We are not creating chances and we seem to be unable to produce a half decent cross (either in the air or on the floor) unless we're given two dozen chances to have a go. Crossing has been a long-term problem so I'm amazed Pep Johnson found so much time to focus instead on the GK pass out from the back.

Of course, it shouldn't be a surprise that we can't cross, with one striker there is not much to aim for and fairly predictable positions for defenders to take up - no slight on Tammy, the real question is where the hell is the rest of the team? Players would not commit forward, the lack of support was embarrassing.

LJ is determined to play one up top, yet we don't play a fast counter-attacking brand of football that lets other attacking players (god forbid wingers) bomb on to spread the defence around him and support. Instead we take all the pace out of the game and try and build slowly until the attack invariably fizzles out.

There are so many criminally obvious things happening (corners and free-kicks failing to beat the first man YET again) that I struggle to understand what all this coaching is focussed on. I loathe all the knee jerk criticism on here, so I don't know where that puts me. 'Mildly suspicious' would be an understatement.

A lot of money was spent on this team, the manager is clearly not stupid, yet at the moment we feel like a team where the manager has no idea of his best players, and an insistence on tactical and footballing principles that indulge his "philosophies", but look less and less like winning (or trying to win) a game of football.

We're an average lower division team stubbornly trying to play like Barcelona, but getting mugged off by every opposition that takes THEIR opportunities. When Preston broke, I saw more players moving with pace to support the attack, than I saw from our entire team put together today. Our lot should all be ashamed.

But given the quality they have (evidenced in prior games) I can't get beyond the fact this must stem from some approach LJ is employing. I honestly found it heartbreaking at times today, it felt like our players were permanently in a lower gear, conservatively trying to out-pass but never out-play the opposition.

I can't bring myself to talk about the players themselves because if it wasn't tactics then to a man the way they played was naive and half-hearted, but it's hard not to mention two: Freeman, because for all his limitations he is the only one who tries to move, and Bryan, who I can't believe actually still gets a game.

But without going full Captain Knee-Jerk (god knows OTIB is in meltdown anyway) let me just say that today's performance was unacceptable, it needs someone to tell the players to go out and win a game of football, and let them get on with it. Because on today's evidence our tactics are getting easier and easier to deal with.

Of course, we're duty bound to say that LJ "will" be a good manager, but the approach has become so poor now, it feels necessary to point out this isn't a "practice season" or some sort of play version where he can experiment to his hearts content, he badly needs to focus on winning games, not labouring a philosophy.

It seems finally someone has the guts to say what a lot of us are thinking, I sat in the south stand yesterday and can assure you your assessment is spot on, nearly everybody was saying exactly what you have written I applaud you like me i'm sure it gives you no pleasure

[pillred]

13 hours ago, pnefcok said:

Just wondering what has happened to Korey Smith?

Been top class whenever I've seen him for either you or Oldham.

got an injury has not been the same since

[pillred]

13 hours ago, shelts said:

Wow. So much rubbish in your post I don't know where to start...so I won't 

you really must tell me where you buy your rose tinted specs

[MarkRed!]

4 hours ago, redsfan said:

I am getting a feeling of Deja Vue here.  You could literally have copied most of that from a thread on the Barnsley BBS, circa 1 year ago.

Average team trying to play like Barcelona - check

Doesn't know his best 11 - check

One up front, even when it  doesn't work - check

playing it around the back with no penetration - check

No pace - check

labouring a philosophy - check

Terrible losing streak - check.

The only one you didn't mention is the playing players hopeless out of position.

Everyone seems to have this idea that he "will" be a good manager.  I just think he talks a good game and has been incredibly lucky to fool so many people for so long now. Still can't believe you paid us to get rid of him - I was desperate for him to go.

 

Johnson is clueless and his tactics are awful.... SC played a better style of football. LJ has no style and I think we were fortunate last year that there were worse teams than us.  He was never the experienced hand we needed and I could not see the basis upon which he was recruited. His bubble has well and truly burst and I can see the fans turning quite nasty..... People who think he will be managing in the PL are dreaming. Anyone can see the problems and the one up front point really strikes me. There are other managers in this division who have done a far better job with not half the resources.  LJ has been given more resources than SC ever got.

If we dont get two wins out of Wolves, Ipswich and Reading, I can see him being sacked. Barnsley have done better without him and continued to do so. 

[Up The City!]

Good post apart from the fact we did dominate possession and created chances in that period, plenty of corners etc but we couldn't make that domination pay.

[shelts]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

you really must tell me where you buy your rose tinted specs

Spec Savers the same as LJ!!!

[CityCiderEd]

17 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Good post apart from the fact we did dominate possession and created chances in that period, plenty of corners etc but we couldn't make that domination pay.

Preston let us have possession where it didn't hurt them as have other teams at AG.Having loads of the ball means nothing at all and for all the early domination chances created were minimal.We are so pedestrian in our build up that most teams can get behind the ball with ease and our lack of a player with genuine pace means even our breaks are easily dealt with.Let's hope we get the players required in the window to help us out as we are struggling with what we've got.