LondonBristolian Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 First off, I'm not trying to start another thread on whether LJ should stay or go. There are more than enough of those already and the only thing I can really say is that I'm glad it is not my decision. What I do think however is that, whatever decision ultimately gets made and dire though our current form is, the picture is nowhere as bleak as it is getting painted in places on the board. In particular, there've been three arguments I've seen made on the boards in various forms that I think are wrong and the reasons why they are wrong are important in terms of where the club is going versus where it was a few months ago. 1. This is like the McInnes era all over again. There are similarities of course in recent games - poor results, not being clear on our best formation and a young manager who had a good start and kept us up in his first season but has struggled to arrest the slide once the honeymoon period was over. But the other crucial factor of the McInnes' reign was the number of poor players on high wages and long contracts that hamstrung us in terms of making improvements. Yes, we lack experience and are short in key areas but the key thing is we are in a position where we've got flexibility in the transfer market and we can get players in whilst the main criticism you can make of the players we have is that they are lacking experience at this level and need to adjust and get better. We need more experience for sure but we don't have senior sub-standard players taking up the bulk of the wage bill and that's important as it means, whether it's ultimately LJ or a new manager who does our business in January, there's the space to do it. 2. Johnson has been a disaster and we should never have appointed him. Whether or not Johnson is the right manager to take us forward, he has not been a disaster. He kept us up last season and, even if LJ were to leave and a new manager were to come in now, he'd be coming into a team who are 6 points clear of relegation and with a considerably better goal difference to the teams below us, which is a great platform to stay up. What's more, whilst our team is underperforming, we've got a team of players who - at the end of last season and the beginning of this - showed they are more than good enough for the Championship, most of whom are young enough to improve considerably from where they are now. The main criticism of LJ - which is perfectly justifiable - is that our form has dropped off a cliff and there is a genuine question mark as to whether he can turn the club around. But I'd say that, from 2010 to 2012 in particular, we made signings that did long-term damage to the club whereas, if LJ were to leave, his legacy would be a deeper squad than we had under Cotterill and a number of players with potential that he had not quite managed to unlock. And that is certainly not a disaster. By contrast, look at Rotherham. I saw someone a couple of days ago saying we should have appointed Neil Warnock instead. Warnock was appointed at a similar time as Johnson and achieved similar results but strengthened the squad with experienced players on high wages. One season on, Warnock is gone and Rotherham are 13 points adrift. This is not an unfamiliar pattern with Warnock's teams which tend to drop in results after he leaves them. And you can say that proves Warnock is a good manager but it also suggests he does not leave a long-term legacy. Meanwhile One season on from LJ's job at Barnsley, the club is a division higher and and 9th in the table. And of course you can say that shows Paul Heckingbottom is getting better results than LJ on the pitch, and that would certainly be true at the moment. But it also shows LJ left Heckingbottom with good tools to work with and I think that will be the same here whenever LJ leaves, even if it is very soon if the current run of results continue. Whether LJ can get results on the pitch remains to be seen but it hard to see him as a disastrous manager. 3. Our problems run far deeper than bad performances and bad results on the pitch. I saw someone say this yesterday and it occurred to me that, in contrast to 2010 - to Cotts being appointed and, for the first time during a bad spell that I can remember, that really is not true. Our problems are bad performances and bad results on the pitch. And that's obviously bad as it is the most crucial thing in football and it needs to be put right ASAP but I honestly don't think our problems run deeper than a need to strengthen the squad. What is my point here? I'm not really sure. Obviously the reality is that whenever a team is on the kind of form that we are on, we're all going to be devastated by that and usually - but not always - such runs lead to a manager losing their job. But, whether or not LJ ultimately goes, I honestly don't think the bigger picture or the long-term future of the club is anywhere near as bleak as some posts at the moment are making out. We need to arrest the slide and fix the results on the pitch. We probably need to move some players on and we certainly need to get some players in. But I've suffered through Bristol City being in an absolute mess enough times to know what we look like when we're in an absolute mess. And that's not where we are at the moment. I've no idea who is going to be in charge six or nine months from now but I do believe, whether it's LJ or it isn't, things will look a lot better than they do right now. COYR! 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Robbored Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ Well give it a like anyway. Probably written with a hangover is full swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 34 minutes ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ Strangely though you could be 'arsed' to arrogantly write a reply informing everybody that you, Robbored, couldn't be bothered to read it which was a textbook useful contribution from yourself. Overall, @LondonBristolian good post and lots of reasons to keep the faith. I'm a huge fan of Johnson and really want him to succeed. This window is key for him, he needs to get it right in January which is a tough ask. Also feel tomorrow is really important, lose 0-3 or worse and I think lots of fans will turn. Potential decent crowd tomorrow which could make crowd reaction worse if it goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiled Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ You've reached a new low. It's a good original post - worth reading. Your contribution is worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 39 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Strangely though you could be 'arsed' to arrogantly write a reply informing everybody that you, Robbored, couldn't be bothered to read it which was a textbook useful contribution from yourself. Overall, @LondonBristolian good post and lots of reasons to keep the faith. I'm a huge fan of Johnson and really want him to succeed. This window is key for him, he needs to get it right in January which is a tough ask. Also feel tomorrow is really important, lose 0-3 or worse and I think lots of fans will turn. Potential decent crowd tomorrow which could make crowd reaction worse if it goes wrong. I don't need to read an overlong thread in order to "keep the faith". City are currently going through a run of poor results and most of us have seen similar slumps many times over the seasons. I can remember 10 consequetive defeats ffs! It's not a new phenomenon, nor is it new to see knee jerk reactions on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, Robbored said: I don't need to read an overlong thread in order to "keep the faith". Nope, you don't. Also don't need to respond to posts you've not read with rude comments, but you did that on this occasion. No need to be that way, other that to be out of order, and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, samo II said: Nope, you don't. Also don't need to respond to posts you've not read with rude comments, but you did that on this occasion. No need to be that way, other that to be out of order, and you know it. You telling me off Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ Zzz zzz zzz zzz! what an absolute **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: You telling me off Sam? TL:DR, soz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, samo II said: TL:DR, soz. No idea what that means Sam....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, Robbored said: I don't need to read an overlong thread in order to "keep the faith". City are currently going through a run of poor results and most of us have seen similar slumps many times over the seasons. I can remember 10 consequetive defeats ffs! It's not a new phenomenon, nor is it new to see knee jerk reactions on here. It matters not the content of the original post. Its about not being a****, something every other adult on this forum can manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 Shame GJ didn't let Sproule off the hook (Excuse the unintentional pun) and save his right hander for a more deserving recipient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ maybe you should! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 A great post - well positioned and balanced.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'm not an LJ fan but as he is Head Coach at my club, I want him to succeed. I understand the reasoning behind employing a young coach but in my opinion, the major problem seems to be that he is too inexperienced to "manage" the more senior players. He really needed someone in his management team like a senior ex manager who has seen it all and done it all but is not afraid to take a back seat for a young gun and to provide valuable advice. Pemberton's background is mostly with youngsters in academies and Holden is a rookie coach. The under 23's also have MacAllister who is still wet behind the ears as a coach. I strongly suspect that the only old head LJ listens to is his Dad and as he has spent a lifetime at teams in League One and below, I don't believe that the advice from that source is relevant to City. As for the future, we are not an obvious basket case for relegation, but another three or four defeats could see us as nailed on for the drop. and without the loan market after 31st Jan, there aren't any emergency options left for us if we do nothing now and also do not recruit what we really need in the way of experienced Championship battlers to dig us out of the hole. I fear the worst but please let me be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ It is.. It's more a White Paper, if someone wants to make a point, keep it simple...please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Robbored said: Too long a thread. I can't be arsed to read it............ No respect same respect you probably give to the manager and management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 19 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said: No respect same respect you probably give to the manager and management Who the he'll are you? You've made 42 posts and yet feel qualified to criticise me? Oh, wait......I know.....you've been reading otib for years but only started posting recently. Yeah right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Robbored said: Who the he'll are you? You've made 42 posts and yet feel qualified to criticise me? Oh, wait......I know.....you've been reading otib for years but only started posting recently. Yeah right. Bit of a weird comment. All any of us are - you and I included - are are some people who support a football club and post on a message board. I assume Rossi the Robin is a City fan like the rest of us and, just like the rest of us, they are welcome to put forward their opinions and criticise those they disagree with. Going back to your criticism of my original post, I absolutely get that there are lots of people who post on here who won't want to read a long post and that's perfectly fine. But I also suspect that I'm not the only one on here who quite likes reading posts that go into a little more depth. However there are loads of threads with shorter posts that you could read and I'm not really clear on why it upsets you that there happens to be one post which is a little longer than you'd like to read. You're very welcome to your opinion but I can promise you it will have absolutely no impact on how long a post I write next time. Now that's said, I don't propose we get bogged down in this discussion. Instead here's to hoping we get 3 points tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, Robbored said: Who the he'll are you? You've made 42 posts and yet feel qualified to criticise me? Oh, wait......I know.....you've been reading otib for years but only started posting recently. Yeah right. Are you drunk ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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