Phileas Fogg Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: Sam Allardyce is another. Totally wrong. Allerdyce has had a very successful career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 24 minutes ago, BS15_RED said: We had some great times with DW, winning the LDV in front of 40,000 was great, however his legacy will always be the Brighton at Cardiff. Whatever happened to Leroy Lita? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Totally wrong. Allerdyce has had a very successful career. If success is measured by titles and trophies then what has Big Sam ever won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Robbored said: If success is measured by titles and trophies then what has Big Sam ever won? It's relative. Teams like Bolton, Blackburn and West Ham aren't realistically going to be challenging for titles. They have different objectives to the likes of United, Chelsea etc. What he achieved with Bolton was a genuine achievement and he introduced lots of new concepts in analysis, fitness and injury prevention that many clubs still use today. He was ahead of his time there. Newcastle he wasn't there long enough to make a real impact before Ashley wanted his own man there. Did fine at Blackburn and had them as a stable prem club by the time he left. Was sacked by the Venky family and look at them now. At West Ham he got them promoted at the first time of asking and established them in the Prem. Couldn't have done much more there really. Pulled off a real achievement to keep Sunderland up. They were in trouble before he went there. The England and now Palace.. no failure there at all. Done a good job everywhere he's been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 hours ago, ben91tucker said: Noticed this earlier, am I right in thinking the favourite is the bloke who recently joined us as a coach Given that we've hit the buffers since he arrived, fingers crossed it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Robbored said: Whatever happened to Leroy Lita? He's now playing for Sisaket FC in the Thai League.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, shelts said: But boy could they drink... They were a disgrace and a very arrogant bunch as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Red Rich Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 59 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: They were a disgrace and a very arrogant bunch as well A lot of the young'uns would walk around the Works nightclub like they owned the place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said: No he didn't, he stayed in a flat near to mine in central Bristol during the week, regularly saw him for a pint of Guinness and a chat... Even more worrying then if he was seeing arrive for training every day, but then he was out drinking himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 15 hours ago, Robbored said: Shame. He played the best football we've seen at the Gate since Alan Dicks Totally agree. If he had won promotion v Brighton be interesting to see how he would have fared in the Champ. Still don't agree with the way he was sacked but I guess he spend a few quid that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, BA14 RED said: As a youngster, 01/02 and 02/03 seasons were my first memories of City - absolutely fantastic football, Murray seemed like he would score at any moment. Murray and Tinnion were telepathic. Tommy was a dynamo in midfield. Louis and Matty Hill playing the wide positions in a 3 with Murray and Bell offering width. Always felt we were a Graham Kavanagh signing away from success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, tinman85 said: Totally agree. If he had won promotion v Brighton be interesting to see how he would have fared in the Champ. Still don't agree with the way he was sacked but I guess he spend a few quid that season. But didn't he have expensive psycologists, fitness coaches etc. Not out of place now but back then it was pretty new, especially at our level. He was told he couldn't have these anymore, we had to cut budgets (anyway they didn't work as we froze when it mattered), he decided he couldn't work without his people so he was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 8 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: It's relative. Teams like Bolton, Blackburn and West Ham aren't realistically going to be challenging for titles. They have different objectives to the likes of United, Chelsea etc. What he achieved with Bolton was a genuine achievement and he introduced lots of new concepts in analysis, fitness and injury prevention that many clubs still use today. He was ahead of his time there. Newcastle he wasn't there long enough to make a real impact before Ashley wanted his own man there. Did fine at Blackburn and had them as a stable prem club by the time he left. Was sacked by the Venky family and look at them now. At West Ham he got them promoted at the first time of asking and established them in the Prem. Couldn't have done much more there really. Pulled off a real achievement to keep Sunderland up. They were in trouble before he went there. The England and now Palace.. no failure there at all. Done a good job everywhere he's been. So he's won nothing then. He's good at avoiding relegation that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Robbored said: So he's won nothing then. He's good at avoiding relegation that's all. Promotion to the Premier League twice. Premier League manager of the month 7 times. Never been relegated in his career. But hey, if you think that's failing manager then what do I know...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 hours ago, shelts said: Are we talking the same season Aden Flint scored 16 times, must of been fluid football from our centre half!!!? We were a fluid side, 3-5-2 with TWO ball playing centre backs able to push on, the wing backs, yes we mixed it up also but that season hit on a perfect storm and 100 goals in football in a season is always used as a benchmark. 6-0 at Bradford one specific highlights- regularly scoring 3 goals in a game home and away, usually dominating the ball...I think some people forget how good albeit at a lower level, it was sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Cowshed said: Cotterill's team was dull in comparison. The football was not of course always of a high standard but there were games where the football was simply beautiful. The away wins at Birmingham, Cardiff and Swansea were also witnessed by vociferous old skool away supports of thousands on terraces. Football and football experiences we will never return to. While I get why this is a fond memory indeed for you, is a red herring in a way when comparing quality of football. Who knows maybe I am all wrong, maybe the football in 89/90 was better but we wasted lots of chances. All I can say is the best I have seen is 14-15 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Steve Cotterills side lacked the excitement and beauty of Joe Jordans 90 team Mr P. two real wingers one as quick as any we will see at AG and one who attempted to beat his man by trickery, Taylor upfront scoring with blistering drives volleys overhead kicks diving headers goal of the month stuff. Midfield players who could play. Humphries and Turner for the darker stuff. For a time it seemed like City had their way of playing from Cooper to Jordan. exciting attacking football with wingers. it was brilliant on its day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 34 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: While I get why this is a fond memory indeed for you, is a red herring in a way when comparing quality of football. Who knows maybe I am all wrong, maybe the football in 89/90 was better but we wasted lots of chances. All I can say is the best I have seen is 14-15 season. At those games City played football that highlighted a team at its best free from the ideas of pragmatism. Little modern thought of high or deep defensive, narrowing down, getting compact etc, It was attack, attack, attack and blow the opposition away with pace, power, and skill from the wingers. For one season fans got to see football that was idealistic. Sublime at its peak. Clubs do not attempt to play in that manner anymore. 4-4-2 with two wingers is considered out dated and unrealistic. The essence of lets excite fans in Joe Jordan's team is a quality that should not go out of style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I think the concern we currently have is the lack of width. City have always played with pace out wide. The current tactics are similar to SOD. Depressingly dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Selred said: Promotion to the Premier League twice. Premier League manager of the month 7 times. Never been relegated in his career. But hey, if you think that's failing manager then what do I know...... Wilson got unfancied Barnsley into the PL......... Big Sam has never won a major trophy. Manager of the month when you save a club from relegation is no doubt a deserved award but dozens of managers have won the same award in their respective league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 2 hours ago, RedM said: Even more worrying then if he was seeing arrive for training every day, but then he was out drinking himself! He only ever had one Guinness! He was very professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: At those games City played football that highlighted a team at its best free from the ideas of pragmatism. Little modern thought of high or deep defensive, narrowing down, getting compact etc, It was attack, attack, attack and blow the opposition away with pace, power, and skill from the wingers. For one season fans got to see football that was idealistic. Sublime at its peak. Clubs do not attempt to play in that manner anymore. 4-4-2 with two wingers is considered out dated and unrealistic. The essence of lets excite fans in Joe Jordan's team is a quality that should not go out of style. I must admit that does sound a treat tbh.A lack of goals though in League but that League is/was a slog. 76 in 46 games is okay but not amazing but style may not have been done justice by the stats or vice versa. For what is worth I think the higher up the pyramid a side goes, the less likely 4-4-2 with out and out wingers is to work. Maybe League One could see some success with it but the Championship these days, let alone internationals, PL, European competition wouldn't see the job done with it I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 42 minutes ago, Robbored said: Wilson got unfancied Barnsley into the PL......... Big Sam has never won a major trophy. Manager of the month when you save a club from relegation is no doubt a deserved award but dozens of managers have won the same award in their respective league. Wilson did excellent with Barnsley. Big Sam, well so easy to get Bolton little unfancied Bolton in to the top 8 sides of the country 4 years in a row isn't lt...getting them playing in Europe, revitalizing stars at the fag end of their career or who lost their way- what he did there remains one of the most remarkable feats in the modern game IMO. Numerous wins v big sides too. When he went there also they were in the shit financially too, thinking they wouldn't escape that level again- far far more than mere 'save a club from relegation'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 18 hours ago, shelts said: If my memory is correct we passed the ball forward under Danny Your memory is not correct. Well, not if you're trying to make the point that the style of football was more direct and exciting than it is now. Obviously the ball was passed forward on occasion back then as it is now, so if you're just being literal then you're correct and I can't argue with it. Somehow Wilson's team has got itself remembered as far more exciting than it ever was. It had its moments, for sure, and those moments produced some fantastic team goals (Lee Matthews vs Reading away in 01/02 for instance). It also racked up a couple of big wins, such as successive 4-1s vs Reading and the 5-0 against Notts County in 2003. However, he also presided over some of the most dull and turgid football seen at AG. The team in his final season was one of the most boring I've seen, masters of the 1-0 win, yet somehow not quite good enough to win promotion. The performance in the playoff final was quite exquisitely bad. I'm not sure I even remember us having a shot. The formula for most games was to pass the ball very slowly across the back 4 to no great effect before launching it towards Lee Peacock, who would run after it if he wasn't too hungover that day. Wilson's teams produced some fine performances and it's understandable that people remember the good times, but for every Tinnion and Murray partnership there was a Burnell and Doherty one, for every 4-1 win at home to Reading, there was 4-0 defeat at Bournemouth or Colchester and plenty of 0-0 and 1-1 draws. Ultimately Wilson had a great crop of players, a budget far in excess of most clubs in the division and he failed to deliver anything more than the LDV Vans Trophy. Cotterill and Johnson both achieved far more and took much less time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, Robbored said: Wilson got unfancied Barnsley into the PL......... Big Sam has never won a major trophy. Manager of the month when you save a club from relegation is no doubt a deserved award but dozens of managers have won the same award in their respective league. Come on, you can't deny Sam Allardyce is a successful manager - he won the league in his first season in management, then he won a division straightaway with his 4th club, he took Bolton and West Ham into the premier league, and he took Bolton to a 6th place finish in the premier league to qualify for the UEFA Cup. And when he resigned from Bolton they were in 5th place in the top flight with two games left to play in the season. And he also got Bolton to the 2004 League Cup Final. He took Blackburn Rovers to the league cup semi final and mid table premier league finishes, and before he went to Newcastle he was offered the Man City job but their new owners then took over and withdrew the job offer. So he was on the radar of the top clubs. Never been relegated and has left clubs in better positions than they were in when he joined...look at Bolton and Blackburn now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, Robbored said: Wilson got unfancied Barnsley into the PL......... Big Sam has never won a major trophy. Manager of the month when you save a club from relegation is no doubt a deserved award but dozens of managers have won the same award in their respective league. A straw man argument. Originally you said that 'Sam Allerdyce is another' manager who's made a 'good living as a failing manager'. That's totally different to 'he's never won a major trophy'. If he's a 'failing manager' for not having won a major trophy that makes the majority of managers 'failing' then doesn't it. Anyone with a reasonable understanding of football could see that Allerdyce has a great record at often unfancied and unfashionable clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 16 hours ago, GrahamC said: Getting promoted is crap though, isn't it? Wilson worked out early on that if you bobbed around near fourth place every year, never actually won a game that mattered, yet hammered the likes of Colchester and Walsall at home there would be some sad sorts on here claiming the football was "really good" over 10 years later.. Clearly 4 straight years of massive underachievement (Jordan, Ward, Johnson and Cotterill all got us promoted in less than half the time he was in charge) was all down to that one missed open goal, not a total lack of professionalism off the pitch and a drinking culture that saw us a complete laughing stock.. If you want to single out a match we lost auto promotion it wasn't away at Swindon it was at home to Brighton when we drew 0-0 the following week. Everyone was celebrating FT results when it came through that Plymouth had beaten QPR.. yet had we won that we'd have leapfrogged them. Wilson's time here is remembered for the football somehow.. despite the worst drinking culture I've ever seen in my time following City. Not helped by the fact he buggered off back to Chesterfield most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I must admit that does sound a treat tbh.A lack of goals though in League but that League is/was a slog. 76 in 46 games is okay but not amazing but style may not have been done justice by the stats or vice versa. For what is worth I think the higher up the pyramid a side goes, the less likely 4-4-2 with out and out wingers is to work. Maybe League One could see some success with it but the Championship these days, let alone internationals, PL, European competition wouldn't see the job done with it I suspect. Wingers in their traditional sense almost no longer exist at any level.. During that period wingers could be seen at every level. Manchester Utd used players that got chalk on their boots from the touchline, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle etc all ticks. Possession is now favoured over that form of flair. Dribbling is not encouraged v having quick touches. Smith attempted to drive into teams from his own half at speed, a speed that put him up at the top of any speed chart nationwide, he was Overmars like in pace, a pace he was at times incapable of crossing the ball at . Mark Gavin on the other flank would slow the game right down, hang onto the ball around their box and attempt to get opposing players to dive in via skill. 89/90 - In midfield Gary Shelton was in constant forward movement. This was high tempo football through the thirds, lets try to play in their third! Jordan attempted to be dynamic. Its a style of football that existed in his Manchester United days, its gone as a football philosophy (blah ...), and in a form was repeated at Bristol City. And when it clicked I have never seen anything to match its exhilarating form since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 25 minutes ago, Tomarse said: If you want to single out a match we lost auto promotion it wasn't away at Swindon it was at home to Brighton when we drew 0-0 the following week. Everyone was celebrating FT results when it came through that Plymouth had beaten QPR.. yet had we won that we'd have leapfrogged them. Wilson's time here is remembered for the football somehow.. despite the worst drinking culture I've ever seen in my time following City. Not helped by the fact he buggered off back to Chesterfield most of the time. Or if you want to single out more than one match, there was the run of 1 win and 5 defeats in 7 games the month before, including defeats to the likes of Stockport, Oldham and Port Vale. Or the 7 match (albeit including 2 cup games) winless run in the autumn including the 3-0 defeat at Wycombe. It was a mediocre season that contained one amazing run of 11 consecutive wins. However, only 2 of those were by more than a single goal, so it was hardly the most exciting time to be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 43 minutes ago, Tomarse said: If you want to single out a match we lost auto promotion it wasn't away at Swindon it was at home to Brighton when we drew 0-0 the following week. Everyone was celebrating FT results when it came through that Plymouth had beaten QPR.. yet had we won that we'd have leapfrogged them. Wilson's time here is remembered for the football somehow.. despite the worst drinking culture I've ever seen in my time following City. Not helped by the fact he buggered off back to Chesterfield most of the time. That's all true and we put it together vs our rivals in the main towards the end, but I do vividly, clearly remember it well- Lee Miller hitting the woodwork at Swindon late on, would have got us the win which would have ultimately took us up. Football did seem quite good under Wilson, lots of youth as well but ultimately failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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