spudski Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: So are you saying not one of SCs romping promotion squad / team is not good enough for the Championship ? Sorry Spud - (not often I wholly disagree with you ) not having that That would then suggest SC (And me and you agree about his downsides ) was actually a miracle worker !!!!! Barnsley , Preston etc etc seemed to have coped with what were regarded as vastly inferior squads Primary problem for me = LJ He romped League 1...not the championship. His team in the Championship were awful...we were in the relegation zone with that team. SC couldn't get them to work, and even he said he ran out of idea with them, and that we needed new players. Lets look at the team in positions.... RoD and FF have all been found wanting at this level.... they are both at best back up keepers at this level. We need a better Keeper. Matthews was a good choice for RB...had he been better this season, then the RB birth would have been ok. Him and Little have not been good enough. Today Little cost us the game. We desperately need a RB. Our CB's are now good enough...between Magners, Flint, Hegeler and Wright we are ok. Golbourne and Bryan are not good enough at LB...both are squad players. We need a LB DM position...in Hegeler we have a good player. GoN, Pack and Smith are all squad players at this level imo. We need a LM and RM.....Reid, Freeman, Odowda, Brownhill, Bryan are all Squad players at this moment in time...maybe a few of them will develop over a season or two. AM....Tomlin good enough...Patterson squad player. Tammy and Duric good enough as Forwards...the rest...squad players. 7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: Spud i ,as will many agree that Little isn't good enough at this level and allowing that much time for the ball to come in , not closing down is criminal as was conceding the header for the second goal. Yes we do have players that ain't good enough. I have to say though that your second point is surely less to do with the players and down to the coaching . Yes we have a decent shape and a lack of movement does suggest a lack of football intelligence. We are however on the training pitch four days a week , so what the **** are they being coached ? I have been fully behind LJ but i have to admit i'm a the end of my tether to be honest. One simple thing and i only played park football so am by no means a football intellect myself, why have we bought a player like Hegeler , with so much quality technically and mentally being wasted at the back . He can run our midfield if given a chance, can you answer that one. They are playing with fear mate...and it's the inexperienced players and the one's not good enough that are letting us down. The Individual mistakes again let us down. Little, Brownhill, Bryan, Brownhill, Odowda...all of them today made poor decisions and mistakes, even with a stunning goal from Bryan. Either not good enough or naïve. 6 minutes ago, 22A said: Interesting comments on this thread. Something must be right as this team went 2-0 v Reading and twice took the lead v Cardiff today. Did the Manager then change tactics completely to alter the way the game was going, or as has been suggested, do the players either lack bottle, or worse still, commitment? Understandably there are calls for LJ to go. Who would replace him and how many transfer windows will the new incumbent want to mould "his" team? Individual errors again today mate. It was an awful game to watch...very little quality. However...we matched them and scored and took the lead. But inconsistent players and inexperience killed us again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, spudski said: He romped League 1...not the championship. His team in the Championship were awful...we were in the relegation zone with that team. SC couldn't get them to work, and even he said he ran out of idea with them, and that we needed new players. Accept he romped Lg 1 not Championship and the first half of last season was awful in main I put this down more to his stubbornness after the summer and his insistence on 3-5-2 rather than the quality of individual players Some (IMHO) needed 'upgrading' and we needed to add depth to the squad when he (naively IMO) said he'd run out of ideas he was IMO having a swipe at those upstairs over the summer rather than a genuine belief that the players as a whole weren't good enough Under LJ no spirit , no belief , no organisation You blame inexperience / fear and I think you are correct in parts , and refer to a number as only 'squad player ' quality , but that means our Summer recruitment was wholly misjudged / flawed I wasn't SCs biggest fan (As a whole package) but At least SCs squad were playing for him In simple terms - would you fancy the current ( Pretty expensively) assembled squad to turn over SCs League One Side ? I wouldn't !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, spudski said: He romped League 1...not the championship. His team in the Championship were awful...we were in the relegation zone with that team. SC couldn't get them to work, and even he said he ran out of idea with them, and that we needed new players. Lets look at the team in positions.... RoD and FF have all been found wanting at this level.... they are both at best back up keepers at this level. We need a better Keeper. Matthews was a good choice for RB...had he been better this season, then the RB birth would have been ok. Him and Little have not been good enough. Today Little cost us the game. We desperately need a RB. Our CB's are now good enough...between Magners, Flint, Hegeler and Wright we are ok. Golbourne and Bryan are not good enough at LB...both are squad players. We need a LB DM position...in Hegeler we have a good player. GoN, Pack and Smith are all squad players at this level imo. We need a LM and RM.....Reid, Freeman, Odowda, Brownhill, Bryan are all Squad players at this moment in time...maybe a few of them will develop over a season or two. AM....Tomlin good enough...Patterson squad player. Tammy and Duric good enough as Forwards...the rest...squad players. They are playing with fear mate...and it's the inexperienced players and the one's not good enough that are letting us down. The Individual mistakes again let us down. Little, Brownhill, Bryan, Brownhill, Odowda...all of them today made poor decisions and mistakes, even with a stunning goal from Bryan. Either not good enough or naïve. Individual errors again today mate. It was an awful game to watch...very little quality. However...we matched them and scored and took the lead. But inconsistent players and inexperience killed us again. As to my point about Hegeler , we all know games are won and lost in the middle of the park . I really do think that playing him in front a back two can calm a lot of those nerves . He can read a game and be a point for us to hit teams on the counter also if tomo plays he wouldn't have to drop so deep as he would be fed the ball where he needs it, in between the lines. I know this doesn't answer the question regarding Little etc but imo this could solve some of problem . I don't think he would allow us to drop so deep as he would give the defence confidence in him. Also he's very adept at breaking from midfield himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 47 minutes ago, 22A said: Interesting comments on this thread. Something must be right as this team went 2-0 v Reading and twice took the lead v Cardiff today. Did the Manager then change tactics completely to alter the way the game was going, or as has been suggested, do the players either lack bottle, or worse still, commitment? Understandably there are calls for LJ to go. Who would replace him and how many transfer windows will the new incumbent want to mould "his" team? LJ didn't change his tactics....but Neil Warnock did. Of course Colin's changes might have come to nothing, but all of a sudden our wing backs who's played up against their wing backs, suddenly had two wide men (Hoilett and Keith Harris) up against them, meaning they got doubled up against. LJ should've countered that. He'll know how....surely? Or he accepts that Colin is gambling and them outnumbering us wide will mean we can outnumber them somewhere else, but that didn't happen. Why not. 12 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: As to my point about Hegeler , we all know games are won and lost in the middle of the park . I really do think that playing him in front a back two can calm a lot of those nerves . He can read a game and be a point for us to hit teams on the counter also if tomo plays he wouldn't have to drop so deep as he would be fed the ball where he needs it, in between the lines. I know this doesn't answer the question regarding Little etc but imo this could solve some of problem . I don't think he would allow us to drop so deep as he would give the defence confidence in him. Also he's very adept at breaking from midfield himself. I think Hegeler would be wasted in DM....I want him CM so he can influence further forward too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 Managers take the plaudits for success so it goes without saying they take the blame for failure. If players arnt performing be brave and stick players you know will put a shift in. All season the sarting 11 and subs used have come from a batch of 14 or so player rearranging them over and over has done nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 50 minutes ago, 22A said: Interesting comments on this thread. Something must be right as this team went 2-0 v Reading and twice took the lead v Cardiff today. Did the Manager then change tactics completely to alter the way the game was going, or as has been suggested, do the players either lack bottle, or worse still, commitment? Understandably there are calls for LJ to go. Who would replace him and how many transfer windows will the new incumbent want to mould "his" team? Personally i think we need a right back and a keeper , apart from that we have a much better squad than the one that was struggling last season. I'd play Magners at left back as he does for his country. As for a new manager , i thought the whole idea of having a head coach in charge but changing little when it comes to the back room staff as being the blue print. Therefore bringing in someone like Rowett , who with a bang average squad at Birmingham was punching above his weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: LJ didn't change his tactics....but Neil Warnock did. Of course Colin's changes might have come to nothing, but all of a sudden our wing backs who's played up against their wing backs, suddenly had two wide men (Hoilett and Keith Harris) up against them, meaning they got doubled up against. LJ should've countered that. He'll know how....surely? Or he accepts that Colin is gambling and them outnumbering us wide will mean we can outnumber them somewhere else, but that didn't happen. Why not. I think Hegeler would be wasted in DM....I want him CM so he can influence further forward too. I think he can do that from DM to be honest Dave but yes he has to play in the middle of the park somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Accept he romped Lg 1 not Championship and the first half of last season was awful in main I put this down more to his stubbornness after the summer and his insistence on 3-5-2 rather than the quality of individual players Some (IMHO) needed 'upgrading' and we needed to add depth to the squad when he (naively IMO) said he'd run out of ideas he was IMO having a swipe at those upstairs over the summer rather than a genuine belief that the players as a whole weren't good enough Under LJ no spirit , no belief , no organisation You blame inexperience / fear and I think you are correct in parts , and refer to a number as only 'squad player ' quality , but that means our Summer recruitment was wholly misjudged / flawed I wasn't SCs biggest fan (As a whole package) but At least SCs squad were playing for him In simple terms - would you fancy the current ( Pretty expensively) assembled squad to turn over SCs League One Side ? I wouldn't !! I don't agree that they have no spirit or belief fella ...as I saw that today and have all season. I don't agree that we aren't organised...in fact I'd say we are probably too organised, and it's the players concentrating on being organised and in shape that's stopping them from actually playing football. It's as if they are getting into position and thinking, 'that's it, I've done my job, I don't need to do anything now'. They become very static and lack very little movement off the ball. Some may also lack physicality and mobility. Frustrating I know... ;-) 7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: As to my point about Hegeler , we all know games are won and lost in the middle of the park . I really do think that playing him in front a back two can calm a lot of those nerves . He can read a game and be a point for us to hit teams on the counter also if tomo plays he wouldn't have to drop so deep as he would be fed the ball where he needs it, in between the lines. I know this doesn't answer the question regarding Little etc but imo this could solve some of problem . I don't think he would allow us to drop so deep as he would give the defence confidence in him. Also he's very adept at breaking from midfield himself. I think Hegeler is only being played in Defensive until Magners is back to full fitness. I can see him being played in DM at a point sooner than later. If he isn't...then I too would lose faith in LJ. I'd like to see him just in front of Flint and Wright as a deep seated DM, almost like a Sweeper. I'm hoping that by the end of January we have our new Keeper from Germany. Fingers crossed a new RB alongside Flint, Wright and Magners. DM in Hegeler RM and LM... anyone of Reid, Freeman, Odowda, Bryan, Brownhill. Preferably if Freeman goes...another quality Midfielder. AM of Tomlin. Forwards...Tammy and Duric If you take the summer, and these past two weeks of signings with current players, and if everyone was fit and playing to their potential then on paper we would/should have had a strong team. ON PAPER, with everyone fit and available and playing to their ability, then I see no reason why this team couldn't do better than now. We do have some quality players....we just need them all fit and playing to the best of their ability. --------------------------------------------------------------Giefer------------------------------------------------------------ Matthews-------------------------------Flint--------------------------------Wright-----------------------------Magners --------------------------------------------------------------Hegeler---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------Smith----------------------------------------------------------------GoN------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------Tammy-----------------------Duric------------------------------------------------ Subs....FF, Pack, Bryan, Reid, Brownhill or Odowda, Engval Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl&Toby Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 I always thought Colin was a far better bet. I even offered to get him in my VW bus........ Thing is we are cozy. Far too cozy. Lansdown doesn't care. His is simply an investment. And no investor puts all his eggs in one basket. Did I see Flyers Badminton on the Big Screen today? Jesus Christ! Football, rugby, basketball, badminton and whatever else Makes Us Proud. Now that's what I'd call a nicely balanced portfolio.... All secured by the freehold at BS3. Lansdown isn't the saviour many like to think he is. Like many he's only in it to massage his own ego. Thing is he's done it with the club I've followed through thick and thin since I was a nipper. Ask yourself this. Did he ever stand in the rain at Stockport before he wanted to Make Us Proud? Did he bullocks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, spudski said: I don't agree that they have no spirit or belief fella ...as I saw that today and have all season. I don't agree that we aren't organised...in fact I'd say we are probably too organised, and it's the players concentrating on being organised and in shape that's stopping them from actually playing football. It's as if they are getting into position and thinking, 'that's it, I've done my job, I don't need to do anything now'. They become very static and lack very little movement off the ball. Some may also lack physicality and mobility. Frustrating I know... ;-) I think Hegeler is only being played in Defensive until Magners is back to full fitness. I can see him being played in DM at a point sooner than later. If he isn't...then I too would lose faith in LJ. I'd like to see him just in front of Flint and Wright as a deep seated DM, almost like a Sweeper. I'm hoping that by the end of January we have our new Keeper from Germany. Fingers crossed a new RB alongside Flint, Wright and Magners. DM in Hegeler RM and LM... anyone of Reid, Freeman, Odowda, Bryan, Brownhill. Preferably if Freeman goes...another quality Midfielder. AM of Tomlin. Forwards...Tammy and Duric If you take the summer, and these past two weeks of signings with current players, and if everyone was fit and playing to their potential then on paper we would/should have had a strong team. ON PAPER, with everyone fit and available and playing to their ability, then I see no reason why this team couldn't do better than now. We do have some quality players....we just need them all fit and playing to the best of their ability. --------------------------------------------------------------Giefer------------------------------------------------------------ Matthews-------------------------------Flint--------------------------------Wright-----------------------------Magners --------------------------------------------------------------Hegeler---------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------Smith----------------------------------------------------------------GoN------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------Tammy-----------------------Duric------------------------------------------------ Subs....FF, Pack, Bryan, Reid, Brownhill or Odowda, Engval Totally agree spud although you have what is basically three DM's in Hegeler (nailed on ) O'Neil and Smith and that's surely to accommodate Tomlin who as much as i love him as a player is a liability when tracking back and i'm not sure you can carry anyone in his league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: Totally agree spud although you have what is basically three DM's in Hegeler (nailed on ) O'Neil and Smith and that's surely to accommodate Tomlin who as much as i love him as a player is a liability when tracking back and i'm not sure you can carry anyone in his league Agreed...but on paper those players, when at their best, are probably our best 11 Individually. On any given day, you could bring in 'squad' players to play more offensively in midfield...say Freeman, Reid, Brownhill, Odowda, Bryan etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, spudski said: Agreed...but on paper those players, when at their best, are probably our best 11 Individually. On any given day, you could bring in 'squad' players to play more offensively in midfield...say Freeman, Reid, Brownhill, Odowda, Bryan etc. Yes as long as Hegeler could step out of DM with the cover of Smith /O'Neil behind him to set off attacks from the players you mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRA Posted January 14, 2017 Report Share Posted January 14, 2017 3 hours ago, spudski said: He romped League 1...not the championship. His team in the Championship were awful...we were in the relegation zone with that team. SC couldn't get them to work, and even he said he ran out of idea with them, and that we needed new players. Lets look at the team in positions.... RoD and FF have all been found wanting at this level.... they are both at best back up keepers at this level. We need a better Keeper. Matthews was a good choice for RB...had he been better this season, then the RB birth would have been ok. Him and Little have not been good enough. Today Little cost us the game. We desperately need a RB. Our CB's are now good enough...between Magners, Flint, Hegeler and Wright we are ok. Golbourne and Bryan are not good enough at LB...both are squad players. We need a LB DM position...in Hegeler we have a good player. GoN, Pack and Smith are all squad players at this level imo. We need a LM and RM.....Reid, Freeman, Odowda, Brownhill, Bryan are all Squad players at this moment in time...maybe a few of them will develop over a season or two. AM....Tomlin good enough...Patterson squad player. Tammy and Duric good enough as Forwards...the rest...squad players. They are playing with fear mate...and it's the inexperienced players and the one's not good enough that are letting us down. The Individual mistakes again let us down. Little, Brownhill, Bryan, Brownhill, Odowda...all of them today made poor decisions and mistakes, even with a stunning goal from Bryan. Either not good enough or naïve. Individual errors again today mate. It was an awful game to watch...very little quality. However...we matched them and scored and took the lead. But inconsistent players and inexperience killed us again. Was that the team that included Luke Ayling? RB for 3rd placed Leeds and getting rave reviews. If he was here now I bet many would be saying he's not good enough but shows how important it is being part of a well coached team. I really want to buy in to the LJ vision but I can't help but see a lot of errors on his behalf. In a number of our recent games when we've been leading, he's brought on players and I've thought "why's he doing that? That's going to upset our balance/that players not natural there/they looked fresh still, surely x should have been replaced instead" and low and behold goals conceded have come from those positions or we lost control where player x was dominating. If I can see that, why can't LJ? It seems very obvious and predictable to me. Also, if players are overly focussed on shape and forgetting to play surely that is down to the coaching? We may have a few players playing regularly that should be squad players but this is the most expensively assembled team in the history of BCFC. Surely with solid coaching we shouldn't be this inept? Do you think if Chris Hughton was here right now with these players we'd be having the same results? I still want it to work for LJ, and will always support the teams he puts out but I'm losing faith in the idea that he knows what the hell he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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