What is, "The Bigger Picture"?

[CotswoldRed]

Curr Avon is just about the best on Radio Bristol, whether you agree with him or not. Measured and articulate. 

No, I don't know him.

[Spoons]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Absolutely 

Also no need to insult people for theirs 

 

 'love listening to your own voice?

Are you a wannabe football pundit gone wrong?

I littreally cringe the whole way home listening to all of u talking crap on radio bristol!

That's my opinion not a insult .

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

The bigger picture is that we are trying to build a team for the future, and so that means short term bad stuff might happen. Only once in our history (when we brought in Cotterill) has changing a manager when we've been on a bad run turned things around quickly.  

I will back the manager for as long as he's our manager. I agree that we need to stop losing games, but the players have to take some of the blame here, it's not simply down to Lee. 

With the squad we have we are more than capable of survival(with a degree of comfort) in this division..it's the tactics/direction that are wrong...

[reddoc]

My problem with the bigger picture, or the project or any other mystical behind the scenes rhetoric were being fed, is that it seems to boil down to buying young players cheaply and improving them. Which we're patently failing to do. I suppose if you're a simplistic fellow like me you might be inclined to blame the Coach for this. I'm also wondering why fans and players are buying in to this in such a big way, unless there's an element to it I'm missing entirely. As big ideas go it's hardly a game changer . Unless you take that last sentence literally as admittedly we've become significantly worse.

 

[RedM]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Bigger picture, if we keep succumbing to LJ believing in his project, needing three windows, saying we'll now do 'situations of attack vs defence in training' like an u8s side is:

mid-August next year the players come out of the new tunnel to face Oxford Utd at home in L1 in front of 12,000 people in a silent stadium with no Flint, Magnusson, Tomlin, Pack, GON, Abraham, Hegeler, or Wright at the club. 

 

And that itself is a sobering thought.

I'm all for supporting the manager, whoever he is but you got to have signs that we have employed the right person to do a decent job. Heart saying I want it to be Lee, but head increasingly telling me my heart is wrong.

Relegation would be a disaster with all the players that would want away (as happened last time) with no guarantee we would be promoted again anytime soon. If this was a purely business decision I'm sorry to say the future of the club lies in the hands of another manager.

This saddens me greatly, but this happens when you employ friends or family members and the business doesn't flourish as expected. You are emotionally attached and as much as you both want good things to happen if you haven't got the skills, personnel or experience you are going to struggle in a league which won't give you time to learn.

 

[Davefevs]

First thread I've read since getting home, so not had chance to really take in anyone's views on other threads....so apologies in advance if it's been covered elsewhere.

For info, I went straight from the game to a pantomime (Charity Event).....oh, the irony.  The bigger villain today was not Warnock, nor The Big Bad Wolf (Little Red Riding Hood....no reference to LJ either), but our own ability to self-destruct.

I tweeted Geoff and the game should've ended 1-0....there's no way 1) we lose or 2) see another 4 goals.

We will all have our thoughts on why, the worry for me is that the professionals, that is, the manager, the coaches and the players aren't able to work it out and / or implement it.

I think today The Big Bad Wolf was re-cast as the Wily Old Fox....he must've been laughing his c€£k off at full-time.

As for Little Lee Riding Hood, there are very few teams we are able to shout 'they're behind you'.

Then we have The Woodcutter, played by SL and MA....they may have to use their axe.  

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

9 minutes ago, reddoc said:

My problem with the bigger picture, or the project or any other mystical behind the scenes rhetoric were being fed, is that it seems to boil down to buying young players cheaply and improving them. Which we're patently failing to do. I suppose if you're a simplistic fellow like me you might be inclined to blame the Coach for this. I'm also wondering why fans and players are buying in to this in such a big way, unless there's an element to it I'm missing entirely. As big ideas go it's hardly a game changer . Unless you take that last sentence literally as admittedly we've become significantly worse.

 

Crewe have been producing young players for years and years selling them on and look where they are now!

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

17 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Curr Avon is just about the best on Radio Bristol, whether you agree with him or not. Measured and articulate. 

No, I don't know him.

And all that does it prove was useless people appear on the show. It's the same droning voices week after week, I really don't understand their self importance that they feel the need to be on the show all the time. And before say others don't phone in, that's been proven to be rubbish as other callers don't get on air

 

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, RedM said:

And that itself is a sobering thought.

I'm all for supporting the manager, whoever he is but you got to have signs that we have employed the right person to do a decent job. Heart saying I want it to be Lee, but head increasingly telling me my heart is wrong.

Relegation would be a disaster with all the players that would want away (as happened last time) with no guarantee we would be promoted again anytime soon. If this was a purely business decision I'm sorry to say the future of the club lies in the hands of another manager.

This saddens me greatly, but this happens when you employ friends or family members and the business doesn't flourish as expected. You are emotionally attached and as much as you both want good things to happen if you haven't got the skills, personnel or experience you are going to struggle in a league which won't give you time to learn.

 

Agreed. We can't look at it and go "well Lee has come out and said he loves living in Clifton so it'll be too harsh to sack him". Numerous amounts of people within the club were gutted when McInnes went because he was a really popular figure behind the scenes but you have to suck up and do what's best. 

[Spoons]

19 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Curr Avon is just about the best on Radio Bristol, whether you agree with him or not. Measured and articulate. 

No, I don't know him.

What really gets me wound up is the way he things he speaks for all city fans. He doesn't and your right he is the best of a very bad fame hungry bunch!!!

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

First thread I've read since getting home, so not had chance to really take in anyone's views on other threads....so apologies in advance if it's been covered elsewhere.

For info, I went straight from the game to a pantomime (Charity Event).....oh, the irony.  The bigger villain today was not Warnock, nor The Big Bad Wolf (Little Red Riding Hood....no reference to LJ either), but our own ability to self-destruct.

I tweeted Geoff and the game should've ended 1-0....there's no way 1) we lose or 2) see another 4 goals.

We will all have our thoughts on why, the worry for me is that the professionals, that is, the manager, the coaches and the players aren't able to work it out and / or implement it.

I think today The Big Bad Wolf was re-cast as the Wily Old Fox....he must've been laughing his c€£k off at full-time.

As for Little Lee Riding Hood, there are very few teams we are able to shout 'they're behind you'.

Then we have The Woodcutter, played by SL and MA....they may have to use their axe.  

The sooner the better!

[NorfolkInChance]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

The bigger picture is that we are trying to build a team for the future, and so that means short term bad stuff might happen. Only once in our history (when we brought in Cotterill) has changing a manager when we've been on a bad run turned things around quickly.  

I will back the manager for as long as he's our manager. I agree that we need to stop losing games, but the players have to take some of the blame here, it's not simply down to Lee. 

He brought most of these players to the club - he is responsible just the same as a Manager in business.  His job is to coach and manage them ffs - I don't get why LJ is so special compared to others?

Some out of work Managers I'm sure could do better with the backing that Lee has had - we have been waiting about 40 years for the bigger picture to materialise - too many people acrept this crap season after season...

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

What really gets me wound up is the way he things he speaks for all city fans. He doesn't and your right he is the best of a very bad fame hungry bunch!!!

Well,  you can always ring in and do better.

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

7 minutes ago, Spoons said:

What really gets me wound up is the way he things he speaks for all city fans. He doesn't and your right he is the best of a very bad fame hungry bunch!!!

Self important and overly arrogant! 

[Spoons]

12 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Well,  you can always ring in and do better.

No thanks. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

15 minutes ago, Spoons said:

What really gets me wound up is the way he things he speaks for all city fans. He doesn't and your right he is the best of a very bad fame hungry bunch!!!

Ring up then Spoons (And others who say the same)

i have on occasions , and never , not got some airtime

[Spoons]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Ring up then Spoons (And others who say the same)

i have on occasions , and never , not got some airtime

No chance , I don't think it's necessary to ring up at all. That's Probaly why it's the same 3 voices week in week out.  

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

The bigger picture is that we are trying to build a team for the future, and so that means short term bad stuff might happen. Only once in our history (when we brought in Cotterill) has changing a manager when we've been on a bad run turned things around quickly.  

I will back the manager for as long as he's our manager. I agree that we need to stop losing games, but the players have to take some of the blame here, it's not simply down to Lee. 

It's the manager who signs the players, coaches the players, picks the players and decides on the game plan. LJ has now spent the most money of any City manager in our history, he's signed 11? players in the last 6 months and is still telling us it's a 'project'.  

Can someone tell him that our football club isn't a 'project' for him to mess around with, it may just be a job for him but for us fans it effects our lives from one week to the next.

He gets 5 days a week on the training pitch to organise a team, if he's not capable of coaching a team into not conceding 3 goals in the last 20 minutes, then someone else should be bought in who can.

2-0 up v Reading and 2-1 up v Cardiff  and losing both games are just two examples of a coach whose obviously out of his depth. The Championship is full of managers who know how to organise a team in tactically shutting games down with a one goal lead, we haven't got one though.

[CotswoldRed]

Just now, Portland Bill said:

It's the manager who signs the players, coaches the players, picks the players and decides on the game plan. LJ has now spent the most money of any City manager in our history, he's signed 11? players in the last 6 months and is still telling us it's a 'project'.  

Can someone tell him that our football club isn't a 'project' for him to mess around with, it may just be a job for him but for us fans it effects our lives from one week to the next.

He gets 5 days a week on the training pitch to organise a team, if he's not capable of coaching a team into not conceding 3 goals in the last 20 minutes, then someone else should be bought in who can.

2-0 up v Reading and 2-1 up v Cardiff  and losing both games are just two examples of a coach whose obviously out of his depth. The Championship is full of managers who know how to organise a team in tactically shutting games down with a one goal lead, we haven't got one though.

Didn't you know he only needs 2 more players? 

[EnclosureSurge]

1 hour ago, miloemily said:

How can the manager be backed ? He is failing to win games. I don't understand why he still has a job.if you are a salesman and you don't sell you do not have a job. If you fail at any job then you get replaced so I'm sorry LJ it's time for you to move over. Next.

If a player wasn't playing well, you'd still support him/back him - witness Joe Bryan today. He's been playing poorly for a while yet turned it round to play much better today. Not sure why managers get treated so radically differently from players, in terms of the support they receive from fans. The buck stops with the manager, but it's not solely down to him, there are so many other factors at play. It certainly won't help if those in attendance at games turn on the manager.

That said, the support at home games during this run has been pretty phenomenal, considering. All the post-match nonsense on here and other sites is no different to any other club and only mildly worse than other periods of us not doing well. Remarkably, at AG, the atmosphere hasn't turned at all. This could be because the players are playing ok/well/not awfully despite losing all these games, it could be because the manager is less than a year into the job, it could be because they're cold/in the concourse drinking. Whatever the reason, I'd hope we'd still back the manager and the starting XI/subs every week (vitriol can fly on stupid social media sites, if necessary). Fair play to us home fans, turning up in numbers, making a bit of noise. Bit of a test after these two 2-3 reverses, mind.

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

The bigger picture is that we are trying to build a team for the future, and so that means short term bad stuff might happen. Only once in our history (when we brought in Cotterill) has changing a manager when we've been on a bad run turned things around quickly.  

I will back the manager for as long as he's our manager. I agree that we need to stop losing games, but the players have to take some of the blame here, it's not simply down to Lee. 

I've lost faith in LJ but not the bigger picture. You're spot on. We are probably not where we want to be at the moment but the bigger picture was always after this season. Maybe we paid too much attention to the future too soon and we should've had a little more care for this year. 

The bigger picture is growing some bigger of the youth we bought for 6-7m and turning them into 15-20m worth of players so we don't have to buy them and pay them those types of wages. Been saying next year we should be equipped to go top 8 and still have room for improvement. Developing 5,6,7 youngsters into first teams players on manageable wages which would allow us to buy a top striker on higher wages when we really need one. 

This isn't ideal for everyone and I get that. The club is transitioning itself to be a big player in the league. Maybe we recruited too young too soon. Maybe we got the wrong head coach. We aren't perfect but we are trying to do better. The off the pitch stuff like the academy, the stadium and the scouting is probably at good championship level. This will help us in the long wrong of not going up and down between championship and L1. The playing and coaching staff seems to be catching up. It's part of the rebuilding of a club. We are in a tough spot but we'll have bumps and bruises before we are a finished product. Other clubs spend less and stay up comfortably but the majority are back at square 1 the next season. Ipswich are an example of this. We have to be patient with the project if not the players and staff. 

[EnclosureSurge]

26 minutes ago, NorfolkInChance said:

He brought most of these players to the club - he is responsible just the same as a Manager in business.  His job is to coach and manage them ffs - I don't get why LJ is so special compared to others?

Some out of work Managers I'm sure could do better with the backing that Lee has had - we have been waiting about 40 years for the bigger picture to materialise - too many people acrept this crap season after season...

How should we go about not accepting it?

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

It's the manager who signs the players, coaches the players, picks the players and decides on the game plan. LJ has now spent the most money of any City manager in our history, he's signed 11? players in the last 6 months and is still telling us it's a 'project'.  

Can someone tell him that our football club isn't a 'project' for him to mess around with, it may just be a job for him but for us fans it effects our lives from one week to the next.

He gets 5 days a week on the training pitch to organise a team, if he's not capable of coaching a team into not conceding 3 goals in the last 20 minutes, then someone else should be bought in who can.

2-0 up v Reading and 2-1 up v Cardiff  and losing both games are just two examples of a coach whose obviously out of his depth. The Championship is full of managers who know how to organise a team in tactically shutting games down with a one goal lead, we haven't got one though.

2-1 v Wolves, I know there are others too.

[NorfolkInChance]

1 minute ago, EnclosureSurge said:

How should we go about not accepting it?

Good question but I don't think blindly backing the Manager helps.  It's hard when you truly support the club but maybe the lack of bums on seats might get the message over?

The sad fact is we are a basket case of a club and the fact we cannot have a decent team in a city this size is mental.

I wish I had all the answers but blindly backing a Manage/Coach who has no track record can't be the right thing surely?

What do you think?

[EnclosureSurge]

9 minutes ago, NorfolkInChance said:

Good question but I don't think blindly backing the Manager helps.  It's hard when you truly support the club but maybe the lack of bums on seats might get the message over?

The sad fact is we are a basket case of a club and the fact we cannot have a decent team in a city this size is mental.

I wish I had all the answers but blindly backing a Manage/Coach who has no track record can't be the right thing surely?

What do you think?

You've hit the nail on the wotsit, there mate! We are a basket case of a club! I'm afraid, for me personally, that is because of how we are being led from the top, by a very non-football person. I don't think the size of Bristol has anything to do with our success/lack of. We could be the smallest place in the world but if you have someone with nous in charge, you do well (with a bit of luck). You're right, though, blindly backing someone is not the way forward, but, unlikely as it seems, I still see us getting out of trouble with this squad of players. But that will leave us, in May, no further forward than 12 months ago. Perhaps even a little bit in reverse. I'd still rather back the manager at this time, as he is doing some things right, though obviously not enough.

Johnson's talk of a 'project' - those aren't his words, they come from Lansdown, his Project Bristol/Barcelona Sport. We have aimed way too far over heads. we should have been building bit by bit after Gary Johnson (but we threw money at stupid signings, or rather, Lansdown did). Now we're trying to be a promotion club by not spending money (or comparatively little). The business plan is/was flawed both times. I'm not advocating Lansdown leaves - preposterous thought as that is, anyway - but that he get someone in who has real football acumen leading a club from the top. We could have the best manager here (or a really good one if, in some bizarre reality someone like Pardew/Pearson/Rowett came here), but this whole Bristol Project thing is wrong. How on earth can we buy young players/develop them/sell them for profit and succeed? Who does that? What club are currently succeeding using that as a business model? We either have to pay the money or shut up shop and be content with life in L1/Championship but stop talking about the Premiership, as is/has been the talk from the board room.

Ultimately, you're right, though, again: I wish I had the answers, too, but nobody does!

[NorfolkInChance]

1 minute ago, EnclosureSurge said:

You've hit the nail on the wotsit, there mate! We are a basket case of a club! I'm afraid, for me personally, that is because of how we are being led from the top, by a very non-football person. I don't think the size of Bristol has anything to do with our success/lack of. We could be the smallest place in the world but if you have someone with nous in charge, you do well (with a bit of luck). You're right, though, blindly backing someone is not the way forward, but, unlikely as it seems, I still see us getting out of trouble with this squad of players. But that will leave us, in May, no further forward than 12 months ago. Perhaps even a little bit in reverse. I'd still rather back the manager at this time, as he is doing some things right, though obviously not enough.

Johnson's talk of a 'project' - those aren't his words, they come from Lansdown, his Project Bristol/Barcelona Sport. We have aimed way too far over heads. we should have been building bit by bit after Gary Johnson (but we threw money at stupid signings, or rather, Lansdown did). Now we're trying to be a promotion club by not spending money (or comparatively little). The business plan is/was flawed both times. I'm not advocating Lansdown leaves - preposterous thought as that is, anyway - but that he get someone in who has real football acumen leading a club from the top. We could have the best manager here (or a really good one if, in some bizarre reality someone like Pardew/Pearson/Rowett came here), but this whole Bristol Project thing is wrong. How on earth can we buy young players/develop them/sell them for profit and succeed? Who does that? What club are currently succeeding using that as a business model? We either have to pay the money or shut up shop and be content with life in L1/Championship but stop talking about the Premiership, as is/has been the talk from the board room.

Ultimately, you're right, though, again: I wish I had the answers, too, but nobody does!

Spothe on mate and put much better than I could have!

[Curr Avon]

40 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Self important and overly arrogant! 

As a passionate City fan of over 40 years standing, that's seen this club through thick and thin, I can safely day, with the utmost respect from the majority of my peers on this forum that your comment is emphatically untrue. Good day to you Sir.

 

[REDOXO]

I don't agree. The Project is correct as this is how Bristol City will become self sustaining. 

You buy in players with potential and develop them and if someone wants to spend the right money you sell. Chelsea have a similar model to an extent, the difference is they can develop their players at Everton Sunderland and Ajax, we have Fleetwood Cheltenham and WSM.

I am good with some short term pain, but this is not that, this is bordering on calamitous and will be within a few more games. Keep your eye on the short term picture as it is as important as the long term picture.

I'm not sure why @Curr Avon is getting some stick as I always think he is pretty accurate and obviously passionate about the club. Those who bother to speak on the radio are normally ok with the odd exception, but anyone else who feels he/she would be better should call in.

[Red Rag]

Here's the bigger picture.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

I don't agree. The Project is correct as this is how Bristol City will become self sustaining. 

You buy in players with potential and develop them and if someone wants to spend the right money you sell. Chelsea have a similar model to an extent, the difference is they can develop their players at Everton Sunderland and Ajax, we have Fleetwood Cheltenham and WSM.

I am good with some short term pain, but this is not that, this is bordering on calamitous and will be within a few more games. Keep your eye on the short term picture as it is as important as the long term picture.

I'm not sure why Curr Avon is getting some stick as I always think he is pretty accurate and obviously passionate about the club. Those who bother to speak on the radio are normally ok with the odd exception, but anyone else who feels he would be better should call in.

Points well made. Although, don't encourage everyone to call in. Many can't even tie their own show laces.