Esmond Million's Bung Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Im_over_ere said: IMHO, whatever approach LJ takes to voice his opinion, then in fairness to Tomlin, he should also be allowed a piece with BEP to make comment. Since when has being employed and handsomely paid ever been any kind of democracy?, Tomlin could always adopt the Payet approach I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 It's "ascendant", Lee, not "ascendency". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, CotswoldRed said: It's "ascendant", Lee, not "ascendency". Thank you so much for your correction. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Due to the nature of employment I think I may be able to ... My job means I need to understand linear- non linear learning and communication. And much more. Criticising in public is failure. It also makes people look unskilled. "We need energy and we need eleven men defending and eleven men attacking. There is no doubt Lee Tomlin has talent, but he probably needs to step up a little bit in terms of his reaction to the transition when we are not totally in the ascendancy (sic). When we are in the ascendancy (sic), we try to build things around Lee Tomlin when we bring him in. But over the last eight or nine games, it has not really worked and we've felt we've needed a bit more industry. That was why he was out of the team and there has been no disciplinary issue. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and I love him as a footballer. At his best, he is a top player for the division. When not at his best, he makes everyone else work a little bit harder and that is the grey area for us. Is he the solution or is he then problem?" I wish my boss was equally critical of me Also, I would say that last criticism is more aimed at himself and the coaching team, i.e how can we get the best out of him when we are under the cosh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, Port Said Red said: "We need energy and we need eleven men defending and eleven men attacking. There is no doubt Lee Tomlin has talent, but he probably needs to step up a little bit in terms of his reaction to the transition when we are not totally in the ascendancy (sic). When we are in the ascendancy (sic), we try to build things around Lee Tomlin when we bring him in. But over the last eight or nine games, it has not really worked and we've felt we've needed a bit more industry. That was why he was out of the team and there has been no disciplinary issue. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and I love him as a footballer. At his best, he is a top player for the division. When not at his best, he makes everyone else work a little bit harder and that is the grey area for us. Is he the solution or is he then problem?" I wish my boss was critical of me Get out of here with your unwanted context. We're trying to start a witch hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, BigTone said: It does but it doesn't mean it needs to be done in the public domain. Sorry but I don't get "the one size fits all" comment. exactly that - it doesn't mean it needs to be done in the public domain, but neither does "man management" need to mean you protect said person from critique in the public domain. Take Klopp, he felt the need to publicly state he's not sure Sturridge knows what pain is. Perhaps he realised the naming and shaming might get him to consider that after conversations which have happened behind closed doors. The "One-size-fits-all" is in reference to the suggestion the criticising need never be done in the public domain. As Klopp exampled - someone held in esteem in the OP - sometimes it absolutely does. I find the irony in the suggestion that you manage a man based upon their own personality but that precludes any public criticism. That's not managing the man if public criticism is what they will react to - if that reaction is positive of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I prefer to see the positive side to this which is LJ continually looking for answers for the recent poor form. LT Bobby are great players & its up to them to take things on board and react in a positive manner. Its too easy to be critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: "We need energy and we need eleven men defending and eleven men attacking. There is no doubt Lee Tomlin has talent, but he probably needs to step up a little bit in terms of his reaction to the transition when we are not totally in the ascendancy (sic). When we are in the ascendancy (sic), we try to build things around Lee Tomlin when we bring him in. But over the last eight or nine games, it has not really worked and we've felt we've needed a bit more industry. That was why he was out of the team and there has been no disciplinary issue. We know his strengths and we know his weaknesses and I love him as a footballer. At his best, he is a top player for the division. When not at his best, he makes everyone else work a little bit harder and that is the grey area for us. Is he the solution or is he then problem?" I wish my boss was equally critical of me Also, I would say that last criticism is more aimed at himself and the coaching team, i.e how can we get the best out of him when we are under the cosh? Yes. I did mention if not taken out of context. Reading the quote when Mr Johnson/Ashton were researching what was to be a costly signing, did they consider Lee Tomins DNA to be a right fit for their project. You do not sign Lee Tomlin and expect him also to be Gary Shelton. That tract of text looks to be an excuse for adding to BCFC's millions club subs bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Swede said: I prefer to see the positive side to this which is LJ continually looking for answers for the recent poor form. LT Bobby are great players & its up to them to take things on board and react in a positive manner. Its too easy to be critical. Agree with this. Tomlin needs to work with and without the ball. Was fine in the 1970s, not so much now against lean and fast opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Get out of here with your unwanted context. We're trying to start a witch hunt. In which case, I suggest you start with the Dolman Broom and follow the clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I started reading this thread before I looked at the EP story. Then I went back to the link for a read..... Whatever my thoughts on the bigger LJ issue, I can't see that he has said too much wrong. The Tomlin question and the rumours surrounding his non selection was answered by LJ and I would imagine that Tomlin wouldn't have a problem with what has been said by LJ. It just shows how a piece of reporting can be edited to fit an agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fact is Tomlin has completely underperformed this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Cowshed said: Yes. I did mention if not taken out of context. Reading the quote when Mr Johnson/Ashton were researching what was to be a costly signing, did they consider Lee Tomins DNA to be a right fit for their project. You do not sign Lee Tomlin and expect him also to be Gary Shelton. That tract of text looks to be an excuse for adding to BCFC's millions club subs bench. No I don't think it's an excuse and I do think that he and MA may have been swayed by the positive reaction he had on the crowd when he signed. I think I remember when he signed that he described as a "maverick type you sometimes need" , I think he is saying that an 8 game losing streak isn't the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Yes. I did mention if not taken out of context. Reading the quote when Mr Johnson/Ashton were researching what was to be a costly signing, did they consider Lee Tomins DNA to be a right fit for their project. You do not sign Lee Tomlin and expect him also to be Gary Shelton. That tract of text looks to be an excuse for adding to BCFC's millions club subs bench. I doubt when singing LT MA/LJ did contemplate going on a club-equalling record bad run, and nor is that a stick to beat them with. I'm sure they contemplated some bad form and contemplated LT's impact in dragging players around him to perform higher last time around. I'm sure they even contemplated having scenarios like this when they need to chuck a hand-grenade his way - even publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, We live in hope said: Lee Johnson has quoted this in the Bristol Post about Lee Tomlin "At his best, he is a top player for the division. When not at his best, he makes everyone else work a little bit harder and that is the grey area for us. Is he the solution or is he then problem?" Really LJ have you not learnt anything since your management journey started to ascended. Can you imagine Alex Fergusson or klopp saying such things! Its undermining and means ultimately you don't know what you are doing at the helm! Players thrive on confidence and I have heard you undermine criticise your players far to much this season! Maybe you need to change your ways rather than the individuals of your team change theirs! Players thrive on confidence! I'm not even on the team and you make my blood boil! I pity a decent player having to work under you! Cobblers, I'm sure Klopp told Sturridge to man up or words to that effect, over his injuries. As for Sir Alex, lets not forget boot gate... I think its more than a fair statement, Tomlin is great but he does things that annoy the hell out of me, falling over a lot looking for free kicks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Johnson in the pre-match press conference- "The players have been great... we haven't seen any attitude or disruption" Wonder if the conspiracy theories will stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Unsure it should have been brought into public domain but he is quite right, he needs to work harder on and especially off the ball. One key part of top management is getting your skillful, talented players to work hard, to press intensely, look at Liverpool, Klopp's Dortmund, Barcelona at their best even the top stars all pressed intensely- let';s hope this moves Tomlin a bit more in that direction. I would also add that the Kodjia comment by LJ last season, I saw as reasonably constructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 During the last game of last season Lee Tomlin showed us that he can sprint, can track back, can tackle and all the other things he prefers not to do. We all sang "sign him up" looking forward to more of the same. Contract gets signed and we have a different player. Now he plays where he feels like. Normally in front of the back 4 when we have the ball and wandering around just behind the forwards when we don't . Always telling everyone else what to do without setting an example himself. I would love to see the stats on miles covered, tackles made, free kicks on target, and also his heat map. Perhaps he is fit, but if he is he hides it pretty well with his waddling around the pitch. Last season he was breaking into the box and committing players, often getting penalties. This season he can beat the first player but does not have the pace or determination to go past him. I agree he is by far the most skilful player we have but opposition teams have woken up to him and exploit his lack of closing down and marking. They can create a spare man wherever he is on the field putting pressure on his team. For me it is all down to Lee Tomlin. Get fit, get some ticker, remember how much he earns compared to most of the punters that watch him and combine effort with skill. If I was SL I would sit him down to watch the last game of last season saying this was the player he thought he bought. If I was LJ (an I am not an LJ fan) I would give him morning and afternoon fitness sessions until he started to show a reasonable amount of effort and energy. I fear he will not change. It seems at all of his past clubs he has a honeymoon period and then falls out with the manager. Why would it be different here If we could sell him and recoup our outlay I think that for £3 million and his wages we could get 2 players that could help us stay in the championship far better than Lee (with current attitude)can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I fail to see anything wrong in LJ's comment about LT. In fact he is right to come out publicly and state the situation, particularly in light of the constant tittle-tattle about him and LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Most couldn't care less what he says or does if we are winning football match's. Lets hope this is the start of LJs and the teams fight back. As for Tomlin it's not as if no one knew what we were buying, if he is now the problem and not the solution then that's 3.5m of Steves money well spent. However I don't believe that. Tomlin needs managing and needs reminding to get near the player he could be he has to put in a shift! Hopefully he can do that in the right position on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 52 minutes ago, Super said: Fact is Tomlin has completely underperformed this season. What and Pack, Smith, O'Neil, Bryan, any of the three keepers we've used, our gutless defence who go into meltdown after 80 minutes haven't underperformed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honiton Tony Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 If a player needs pulling up on something you do it private but you back them to the hilt in public [ no exceptions ] ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, harrys said: What and Pack, Smith, O'Neil, Bryan, any of the three keepers we've used, our gutless defence who go into meltdown after 80 minutes haven't underperformed? Could not agree more with you. Flint also has cost 9 points this year but people seem just to love old flinty! The other guy who has done that has just left City! LJ is constantly trying to shift blame on players to mask his total ineptitude as a manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Im_over_ere said: IMHO, whatever approach LJ takes to voice his opinion, then in fairness to Tomlin, he should also be allowed a piece with BEP to make comment. That will help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, We live in hope said: Could not agree more with you. Flint also has cost 9 points this year but people seem just to love old flinty! The other guy who has done that has just left City! LJ is constantly trying to shift blame on players to mask his total ineptitude as a manager! Flint didn't cost us 3M . Tomlin did and he hasn't lived upto the promise of last season, basically a shadow of that player. If its true about what he said to LJ during the Huddersfield game then he deserves to be criticized. Nothing to do with the ineptitude of Johnson at all Plus like someone has posted, you've omitted paragraphs to suit your own agenda against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercidered Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said: Flint didn't cost us 3M . Tomlin did and he hasn't lived upto the promise of last season, basically a shadow of that player. If its true about what he said to LJ during the Huddersfield game then he deserves to be criticized. Nothing to do with the ineptitude of Johnson at all Plus like someone has posted, you've omitted paragraphs to suit your own agenda against him I'm not stirring things here... but what was supposed to have being said during the Huddersfield game? Or can you point me in the right direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperor Palpatine Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, supercidered said: I'm not stirring things here... but what was supposed to have being said during the Huddersfield game? Or can you point me in the right direction? There is a whole thread about it and that game was referenced Hence the 'supposed to' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 22 minutes ago, italian dave said: That will help... Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said: Flint didn't cost us 3M . Tomlin did and he hasn't lived upto the promise of last season, basically a shadow of that player. If its true about what he said to LJ during the Huddersfield game then he deserves to be criticized. Nothing to do with the ineptitude of Johnson at all Plus like someone has posted, you've omitted paragraphs to suit your own agenda against him I posted that it was in the Bristol post so those could read for themselves. What you want me to come do your washing up as well! Do your own research! Before you blog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, harrys said: What and Pack, Smith, O'Neil, Bryan, any of the three keepers we've used, our gutless defence who go into meltdown after 80 minutes haven't underperformed? ...but there is a difference. The players you refer to have, most of the time, put in a shift. That can't be said of LT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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