Wanderingred Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 And Im not talking about Lee Johnson. For too long, Steve Lansdown and the board have been immune to criticism because Steve is a local lad who is a city fan through and through. But just looking at this list demands answers. Coppell Millen McInnes O'Driscoll Cotterill Johnson All but Cotterill have been a complete failure overall and all bar Cotterill have been a complete failure at Championship level. All came to us with lots of promise and all have left being branded clueless and out of their depth. Co-incidence? I dont claim to have any inside knowledge or owt but it looks highly likely that the problems of our perpetual failures go far beyond making the wrong managerial appointments. Being in charge of this club is like having a poisoned chalice and being doomed to failure. There is something there... An individual, a system, a mindset that stops this club from moving forward. I dont know what it is, but it is fundamentally ingrained into the club and has been for years. The likes of Reading, Brighton, Preston and Huddersfield clearly have something behind the scenes that we do not. Its not money, resources or the prestige of being bigger clubs. So what is it? Lansdown, its time for you to look at these things closely and seriously because whilst it may be YOUR money, it is OUR club. And I for one am sick and tired of seing promise and talk turn into failure time and time and time again. No matter who our next managerial appointment is, I cant see anything but another failure at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Cotterill i would argue was a big success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 People were falling over themselves to have Coppell & O'Driscoll as our manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 The problem is who next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Bring back Cotts or Anyone bar SOD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, wendyredredrobin said: The problem is who next? People wanting Gary Rowett can dream on. If the guy had any sense he'd take one look at us and our set up and give us a wide berth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulcityfan Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 This is the truth of the matter. Nothing changes unless Steve Landsown says it changes. Sure its great to have strong and ethical backer but does he know how it feels for the fans to feel as though they are ignored. Not only is the latest poll is now 90% in favour of Johnson leaving (it was 80% last week which was already shockingly high). Also personally, and i'm sure not just for me, it knocks the stuffing out of the passionate fan, makes you feel depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I think the right structure is there, but they possibly got the wrong guy in as coach (or just at the wrong time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 The only thing I take issue with in the OP is the suggestion that the club's owner has been immune from criticism until now. A number of posters have been criticising him, or perhaps more accurately, questioning his competence, for years. I had, by my standards, a right go in the Millen era. SL has always been a nice chap on the (few) occasions I've met him. Mrs SL even nicer. But he's not got a "Board" to support him...he's got a set of placemen...and I think that's been our problem, no diversity of opinion and no challenge. All too cosy, not very professional or rigorous. However, ultimately any criticism or even comment on SL's stewardship of the club is invariably met with suggestions on here that we'd be out of business without him...or possibly playing in League One... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Of those mentioned appointments (you've also omitted Tins and GJ) were the majority of the fan base happy with? Tins - divided GJ - positive Coppell - positive Millen - probably positive given the circumstances? SOD - positive Cotterill - divided LJ - generally positive? i think the only appointment I questioned at start was Cotts and look now that turned out...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Kim_il_sung said: People wanting Gary Rowett can dream on. If the guy had any sense he'd take one look at us and our set up and give us a wide berth. What's wrong with our setup exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 It's always been a game where the manager takes the blame. One person is expendable by cancelling their contract. You cannot sack a whole team. That is not to say that a manager is wholly to blame, but unfortunately it goes with the territory. I'd love to manage Bristol City, if it were like playing Football Manager. It isn't though. Johnson knows that, and he really must be thinking that 'uncle' Steve might need a new 'favourite nephew'. As for the players, they aren't performing, but footballers are 'immature' in needing to feel special, like they are wanted. The manager has the responsibility for that, so that they cross the line and do the business. Their performance umtimately is Lee's responsibility. I'm sure another manager will come in and some if them will play like they must've been under-mining Lee. I don't think it works like that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I think Gary Rowett would be interested. We are a team who have dropped down the league in an alarming manner. He would look at us and think I can lift morale and get them organised and move up the table. Nothing really to lose and everything to gain. We have the basis of a good team and can be a success if this Gary Rowett does with us what he did with Birmingham. Let's get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Londoner said: Cotterill i would argue was a big success. And wasn't he Dawes man not Lansdowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted January 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: What's wrong with our setup exactly? Like I said, I dont claim to have any answers but we've suffered perpetual failure under a succession of managers and millions of pounds have been thrown down the drain. It doesnt take a genius to conclude that there is something seriously wrong with the entire ethos and running of the club. People who think that a new manager is going to change all that is kidding themselves. What will probably happen is somebody will come in and keep us up. We'll make a few decent-on-paper signings over the summer and the mood on here will be that things are finally on the up. Then this time next year, we will find ourselves in exactly the same situation. Repeat ad nauseum until we are back in League 1. Its time for wholesale changes. We need to look at Reading, look at Preston and the like and see what they do behind the scenes that we dont. Only then can we finally break the cycle of mediocrity that has lasted since we left the old first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadredfred Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 I get the issue, but I can't help but think SL must be as worried about the failures as we are? He's a smart man, which is why I can't understand the mixed messages and repeated failures. He's said about being embarrassed before with the money we wasted trying to buy our way to the Prem, vowed not to do it again. Yet we seem to be here again, and again with a manager who doesn't seem to know what he's doing. The list of former managers and regularity of such major board level cock ups is frankly unacceptable. Are we at risk of him losing his patience with it all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 minute ago, deadredfred said: I get the issue, but I can't help but think SL must be as worried about the failures as we are? He's a smart man, which is why I can't understand the mixed messages and repeated failures. He's said about being embarrassed before with the money we wasted trying to buy our way to the Prem, vowed not to do it again. Yet we seem to be here again, and again with a manager who doesn't seem to know what he's doing. The list of former managers and regularity of such major board level cock ups is frankly unacceptable. Are we at risk of him losing his patience with it all? The irony is... When it comes to LJ, it's like holding on to doomed shares in the hope the price will eventually rise, when it makes more sense to reinvest now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadredfred Posted January 21, 2017 Report Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, CotswoldRed said: The irony is... When it comes to LJ, it's like holding on to doomed shares in the hope the price will eventually rise, when it makes more sense to reinvest now. Agreed. That's the error of having sentiment involved in what is essentially a business decision. GJ, LJ, Millen, Tinnion... Were they the best managerial option, the stand out candidates on offer at the time of their appointment? I think not. We never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster Footman's T shirt Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 18 hours ago, Kim_il_sung said: Like I said, I dont claim to have any answers but we've suffered perpetual failure under a succession of managers and millions of pounds have been thrown down the drain. It doesnt take a genius to conclude that there is something seriously wrong with the entire ethos and running of the club. People who think that a new manager is going to change all that is kidding themselves. What will probably happen is somebody will come in and keep us up. We'll make a few decent-on-paper signings over the summer and the mood on here will be that things are finally on the up. Then this time next year, we will find ourselves in exactly the same situation. Repeat ad nauseum until we are back in League 1. Its time for wholesale changes. We need to look at Reading, look at Preston and the like and see what they do behind the scenes that we dont. Only then can we finally break the cycle of mediocrity that has lasted since we left the old first division. For me the problem is that we need a manager with experience and track record at this level or higher. To progress in this league we need better/more experienced players. Players of this ilk have an expectation of operating in a certain way. They have big egos sometimes and will walk all over a manager who is not strong or experienced enough. The only recent manager we appointed who had a significant record at this level (Coppell) took one look and buggered off. We have to ask whether the club is unable to attract these candidates. If they are able to then are they unwillling to? One thing is for sure, an experienced manager of this sort is unlikely to be a yes man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Just what is 'post-modernism'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 21 hours ago, Kim_il_sung said: And Im not talking about Lee Johnson. For too long, Steve Lansdown and the board have been immune to criticism because Steve is a local lad who is a city fan through and through. But just looking at this list demands answers. Coppell Millen McInnes O'Driscoll Cotterill Johnson All but Cotterill have been a complete failure overall and all bar Cotterill have been a complete failure at Championship level. All came to us with lots of promise and all have left being branded clueless and out of their depth. Co-incidence? I dont claim to have any inside knowledge or owt but it looks highly likely that the problems of our perpetual failures go far beyond making the wrong managerial appointments. Being in charge of this club is like having a poisoned chalice and being doomed to failure. There is something there... An individual, a system, a mindset that stops this club from moving forward. I dont know what it is, but it is fundamentally ingrained into the club and has been for years. The likes of Reading, Brighton, Preston and Huddersfield clearly have something behind the scenes that we do not. Its not money, resources or the prestige of being bigger clubs. So what is it? Lansdown, its time for you to look at these things closely and seriously because whilst it may be YOUR money, it is OUR club. And I for one am sick and tired of seing promise and talk turn into failure time and time and time again. No matter who our next managerial appointment is, I cant see anything but another failure at this time. I was about to post something similar but then read your insightful post. If and its a big if we get Appleton as our next manager I would want SL to walk away from our club, big statement I know , and he would have the sale the club and the ground and now linked with the Rugby club as well , it get all very messy, but we are just stuck in a nightmare circle of appointment managers who are not up to the job and the fans don't want. I'm sick to death of false promises from Lansdown who claim he wants to be in the premier league and yet continues to employ inept managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs3 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Before Lansdown we were a average club yo -yoing between the 2nd and 3rd tier of English football, but for all is millions what as changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 19 hours ago, Tomarse said: Of those mentioned appointments (you've also omitted Tins and GJ) were the majority of the fan base happy with? Tins - divided GJ - positive Coppell - positive Millen - probably positive given the circumstances? SOD - positive Cotterill - divided LJ - generally positive? i think the only appointment I questioned at start was Cotts and look now that turned out...! I was totally wrong about Cotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poshtottie Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 23 hours ago, Kim_il_sung said: And Im not talking about Lee Johnson. For too long, Steve Lansdown and the board have been immune to criticism because Steve is a local lad who is a city fan through and through. But just looking at this list demands answers. Coppell Millen McInnes O'Driscoll Cotterill Johnson All but Cotterill have been a complete failure overall and all bar Cotterill have been a complete failure at Championship level. All came to us with lots of promise and all have left being branded clueless and out of their depth. Co-incidence? I dont claim to have any inside knowledge or owt but it looks highly likely that the problems of our perpetual failures go far beyond making the wrong managerial appointments. Being in charge of this club is like having a poisoned chalice and being doomed to failure. There is something there... An individual, a system, a mindset that stops this club from moving forward. I dont know what it is, but it is fundamentally ingrained into the club and has been for years. The likes of Reading, Brighton, Preston and Huddersfield clearly have something behind the scenes that we do not. Its not money, resources or the prestige of being bigger clubs. So what is it? Lansdown, its time for you to look at these things closely and seriously because whilst it may be YOUR money, it is OUR club. And I for one am sick and tired of seing promise and talk turn into failure time and time and time again. No matter who our next managerial appointment is, I cant see anything but another failure at this time. City have always been in this place for far too long, though I do get the journey to the top must be planned and sustained financially as we do not want the old debt back or to go for broke like Leeds United did many yeas ago! People seem to underestimate how instrumental the manager is at this club. Not just here for that matter. There are good managers out there but would they come to BCFC is the question. Could you imagine Pearson taking orders from Ashton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted January 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 hours ago, bs3 said: Before Lansdown we were a average club yo -yoing between the 2nd and 3rd tier of English football, but for all is millions what as changed. Apart from the stadium, zilch. And for everything we have tried to achieve, all the ambition we have attempted to show, we risk the real possibility of ending back in the same division as the gas where they will mock us brutally and relentlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Agree completely with original poster. I have received much criticism on otib for saying similar things over last two seasons. Way Forward? 1 Fan representative on The Board 2 More transparency, e.g. Published person spec and job description for next manager/ head coach. At present we don't seem to know the difference between the two. SC was manager and LJ is head coach. 3 bring in partner to SL to inject much needed business sense 4 Look seriously at structure and role of The Board (again silent this weekend - unacceptable in my opinion) 5 MOST IMPORTANTLY have a full consultancy audit of the club, from top to bottom on management side, and publish results 6 what won't happen, abandon the nonsense of Bristol Sport and abandon one owner of the football and rugby clubs. Finally, and. I guess unpopularly, I don't see anything positive happening until ownership changes or owner recognises his own serious shortcomings Please don't mention the multi purpose stadium, which City doesn't own. Anyone with money could have done that, and without the nonsense of Ashton Vale as well (another case of poor management at top level) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 I posted the following stats before and after we appointed Lee Johnson - of all our appointments Alan Dicks onwards, just 3 of 22 managers had previously been successful at the level we hired them for. Just 9 of 22 had previously been successful full stop! I know there are false economies here with experienced managers getting worse, and I realise Steve Lansdown is only responsible for a subset of this history of hiring, but can you imagine him allowing Hargreaves Lansdown's HR department to hire people with the right experience just 14% of the time? 11 of 22 it was their first English League managerial job (50%), of which: 7 of 22 it was their first ever managerial job (32%) 11 of 22 had prior experience (50%) of which: 3 of 22 had been successful at the level we hired them for (14%) 6 of 22 had been successful but at a lower level of football (27%) 2 of 22 had not been successful yet in football (9%) 1 had just managed Bristol Rovers, which is barely football 1 is Lee Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said: Just what is 'post-modernism'? Deliveries from Amazon using drones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 Would have been interesting to see what Cotterill would have done with the resources that Johnson has so abysmally failed with at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman85 Posted January 22, 2017 Report Share Posted January 22, 2017 On 21/01/2017 at 17:17, Kim_il_sung said: And Im not talking about Lee Johnson. For too long, Steve Lansdown and the board have been immune to criticism because Steve is a local lad who is a city fan through and through. But just looking at this list demands answers. Coppell Millen McInnes O'Driscoll Cotterill Johnson All but Cotterill have been a complete failure overall and all bar Cotterill have been a complete failure at Championship level. All came to us with lots of promise and all have left being branded clueless and out of their depth. Co-incidence? I dont claim to have any inside knowledge or owt but it looks highly likely that the problems of our perpetual failures go far beyond making the wrong managerial appointments. Being in charge of this club is like having a poisoned chalice and being doomed to failure. There is something there... An individual, a system, a mindset that stops this club from moving forward. I dont know what it is, but it is fundamentally ingrained into the club and has been for years. The likes of Reading, Brighton, Preston and Huddersfield clearly have something behind the scenes that we do not. Its not money, resources or the prestige of being bigger clubs. So what is it? Lansdown, its time for you to look at these things closely and seriously because whilst it may be YOUR money, it is OUR club. And I for one am sick and tired of seing promise and talk turn into failure time and time and time again. No matter who our next managerial appointment is, I cant see anything but another failure at this time. Interesting post mate. You forget Tinnion in there. So thought he had learnt his lessons with Tinman and Keith. Nobody can knock the fantastic stadium and financial support but the board seem to go for a certain type. Normally a yes man who has achieved nothing. All the talk of the premier league and Europa League is a little embarrassing when we don't invest in that level of leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.