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Help for Johnson

JamesBCFC

By JamesBCFC
in Football Chat

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If (and I mean if) Tomlin is the bad apple, why isn't:

1. LJ dealing with it

2. Pembo or Holden

3. Senior pros like Wilbs, O'Neil, Flint etc

Great teams are built on honesty and free speech, acceptance of fault etc.

I can't sit here and let everyone make LT the scapegoat until someone in the club either comes out and says so, or their actions give me 99% reason to think he's the only problem.

If he's that big a problem, don't effin' pick him in the 18, don't let him train, sell him.

I think he is an easy target, but I'm not naive to think he hasnt any faults.  Some are too defensive of him, some are too easy to pick on him.

All I know if that a Tomlin-match-fit player is good enough at this level.  He ain't ever gonna be a natural athlete, but he is a fine player, and someone who wants to be loved.

A firing Tomlin is an asset.  A stroppy Tomlin is no use at all.

I hope we get to see the firing Tomlin again...would be a huge waste.  But whatever will be will be.

 

Good points Dave 

This is actuallly one of my many major concerns

I would absolutely expect the Wilbs / Flint influence to Marshall the dressing room and be the strong characters who galvanise the squad

What concerns me is that there is no real indication of this which suggests they aren't doing it , or trying to,(Can't believe they won't be tbh)

Or 

They are in the minority in a turning dressing room and are 'swimming against the tide,

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kevthered

kevthered

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If (and I mean if) Tomlin is the bad apple, why isn't:

1. LJ dealing with it

2. Pembo or Holden

3. Senior pros like Wilbs, O'Neil, Flint etc

Great teams are built on honesty and free speech, acceptance of fault etc.

I can't sit here and let everyone make LT the scapegoat until someone in the club either comes out and says so, or their actions give me 99% reason to think he's the only problem.

If he's that big a problem, don't effin' pick him in the 18, don't let him train, sell him.

I think he is an easy target, but I'm not naive to think he hasnt any faults.  Some are too defensive of him, some are too easy to pick on him.

All I know if that a Tomlin-match-fit player is good enough at this level.  He ain't ever gonna be a natural athlete, but he is a fine player, and someone who wants to be loved.

A firing Tomlin is an asset.  A stroppy Tomlin is no use at all.

I hope we get to see the firing Tomlin again...would be a huge waste.  But whatever will be will be.

 

All fair points ....  I am not suggesting that Tomlin is the trouble maker here   but he does have past history.. I do wish they can sort it out and LT can get back to his brilliant best

I think Lee is out of his depth and answering the OP question in my opinion for what its worth he can do with someone like Joe Jordan to help him as I don't think he has the experience for this job but will go on to be a fantastic manager but not yet

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Marina's Rolls Royce

Marina's Rolls Royce

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

So in addition to bringing in his own man in Holden and keeping the last bloke's assistant (Pemberton) he still needs MORE help?

What is it? A football club or a support group?

If you want me to be serious I doubt he wants yet more assistants (or assistance).

I'd pretty much agree about "support group". We've seen that once before when Benny was appointed to help John Ward.

My opinion is that if SL wishes to give Lee 2 or 3 or 4 more games then so be it. His club, money and his decision. 

As far as help goes then maybe 'Midget' banners or Johnson Out should be left out.

It is a fact that either Johnson turns it around in the next few games or he's gone and any fans who think they can alter that fact are just willy waggling.

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extonsred

extonsred

Posted
Posted

I still find it strange that Dean Holden was appointed. Certainly does not seem a L J kind of guy - in his first and only interview i think sounded like a dinosaur out of the 60's.  Why did he go for him? Is Pembo  feeling pushed aside cos although it was beginning to slide he has contributed to making the side worse.

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KeepUpLino

KeepUpLino

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I'm completely with you on this.

I'm actually more embarrassed by bigoted childish and ignorant comments by so many on here than I am about the 8 straight league losses.

But then again, I support BCFC come what may and I've seen/experienced worse.

Have you really seen worse than 12 defeats in 13 though? Honest question?

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Marina's Rolls Royce

Marina's Rolls Royce

Posted
Posted
Just now, 'keepuplino' said:

Have you really seen worse than 12 defeats in 13 though? Honest question?

I've seen my club go from Div1 to Div4 and go bust- so yeh, I guess I have.

I've seen the Gas piss all over us, I've been devastated on the terraces of Trumpton when they beat us and wrestled the title away from us.

I've had years of Div3 with TRULY incompetent owners/Chairman when it looked like we'd never afford even a half decent player.

I look now and see a Stadium that is superb, an infrastructure thats the best I can think of, an owner who puts his money where his mouth is and a potentially very strong squad.

So yes, Keepuplino, I really do think I've seen worse and felt worse.

As for Johnson- he's got another SL gifted opportunity ( maybe 1 game maybe 3) and I hope he turns it around purely because I want to see us winning again.

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KeepUpLino

KeepUpLino

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I've seen my club go from Div1 to Div4 and go bust- so yeh, I guess I have.

I've seen the Gas piss all over us, I've been devastated on the terraces of Trumpton when they beat us and wrestled the title away from us.

I've had years of Div3 with TRULY incompetent owners/Chairman when it looked like we'd never afford even a half decent player.

I look now and see a Stadium that is superb, an infrastructure thats the best I can think of, an owner who puts his money where his mouth is and a potentially very strong squad.

So yes, Keepuplino, I really do think I've seen worse and felt worse.

As for Johnson- he's got another SL gifted opportunity ( maybe 1 game maybe 3) and I hope he turns it around purely because I want to see us winning again.

Let's hope he surprises us all hey...

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Mike Hunt-Hertz

Mike Hunt-Hertz

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Libertine1 said:

I don't think LJ would be too happy to be given help, he might feel undermined. Plus he wanted, and has been given, 2 assistants.

I really can't think of any examples where a struggling manager has benefited from someone coming in to help them out.

Bryan Robson had Terry Venables, but Robson was about as useless as our hero.

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WestonRobin

WestonRobin

Posted
Posted

A team bonding session...I know we don't have the time to bugger off to Botswana for a tour but that really helped the previous manager.

Its a shame there isn't an international break around the corner when're they could all disappear, or at least most of them, to bond again and repair any damage. I don't get the impression they are playing for one another or 'fighting' like they used too and this may well help.

Apart from this a coach who can really motivate - Johnson is articulate but you don't, or at least I dont,  sense the passion when he speaks...we need someone to support LJ and one who can inspire the lads, give them that 'fire in their belly' and make them believe again. Someone to deliver the team talk...Johnson explains his tactics and they motivate the players. May help in the short term?

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Olé

Olé

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Scrumpty said:

Back on topic, I think Keith Millen could be the man. Superb coaching record HERE and at Palace. Tonnes of experience, known by the management team and much respected.

That's actually a very logical choice, Keith Millen worked with his father too on our best run, and will have dealt with bigger challenges and personalities in the Premiership, as he did when he kept us up. He will also know Lee himself. I can't honestly remember how it went wrong for him here, but I do remember he's one of the only City managers to have won a Championship Manager of the Month award!

With all that said, I'm really not sure another person alongside LJ is the right answer. I think being surrounded by 3-4 coaches would undermine his credibility still further, which seems to me to be the thing that is already holding him back. Perhaps it would make sense if they could also dispense with Holden - it's not as though he came here with any real credibility of his own from his prior coaching roles.

Has anyone mentioned Roy Hodgson yet?

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bcfcnick

bcfcnick

Posted
Posted

It might be coincidence but adding to the coaching staff didn't help with the appointment of Dean Holden.  The buck stops with LJ and he has responsibility for managing his coaching staff as well as the players.  The performances as well as the results have deteriorated since DH came in.   It will have enabled more split-group coaching (defence, midfield & strikers) and that plus the constant tinkering with personnel and tactics makes it no surprise that the team play has looked disjointed. No doubt confidence has drained away from both players and management. 

There has been an element of bad luck but as the saying goes you make your own luck and you aren't going to get much luck if you don't get a shot on target, play narrow with weak full-backs and have a scattergun approach to picking the team.

In terms of help I was heartened by Steve Lansdown's BBC interview with Ali Durden.  He was asked if LJ needed help and replied he didn't think so  and "he has a very good assistant manager in John Pemberton,  I have a lot of faith in him, he's been round the block a few times and knows what it is all about."  I think Pembo should and will get his opportunity and I suspect, just as he made some simple but effective changes last time, he would do likewise this time. I'm sure he would add width and pace to the frontline and ensure there was some continuity in the team with some. He'll talk less than Lee but I suspect the players might appreciate that! He's obviously very hard working but I was surprised and liked the passion and skill-set he had for the role, including man management, when he took it on last time as caretaker manager.

I think SL is being generous to Lee with the extra-time he has given him but he's a good man and I'd rather have him as owner than 99% of the other in the league.  He's backed Lee heavily with more cash than most in the Championship and given him high calibre backroom staff such as Des Taylor who has a great track record in player recruitment. That means the worst run in the Club's history is even worse than that stark statistic suggests. 

Lee isn't a 'youth training project' who needs mentoring and the Club doesn't need to add to the already confused state of players with more personnel. It may well be that LJ is like his father and thrives in clubs where fewer resources mean that he can't tinker too much and players are easier to manage. Either way he will be a wealthy man with the settlement from the extended contract and his property portfolio  so SL needs to appreciate the extra time isn't in anyones interests.   He has already been more than fair to him and a personally hard decision needs to be taken sooner rather than later. 

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cityloyal473

cityloyal473

Posted
Posted
Quote

 

How much help can one person want/need?  Where does it end?  Do we hire an assistant head coach to help him, and then when that doesn't work hire an assistant to the assistant head coach to the head coach? An assistant defensive coach to assist the defensive coach?  The support network (coaches, scouts, training facilities, MA), and financial backing that Johnson has is far superior to anything any other manager has ever had.  If he still needs help then he's in the wrong job.  It's really that simple. 

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old_eastender

old_eastender

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

It might be coincidence but adding to the coaching staff didn't help with the appointment of Dean Holden.  The buck stops with LJ and he has responsibility for managing his coaching staff as well as the players.  The performances as well as the results have deteriorated since DH came in.   It will have enabled more split-group coaching (defence, midfield & strikers) and that plus the constant tinkering with personnel and tactics makes it no surprise that the team play has looked disjointed. No doubt confidence has drained away from both players and management. 

There has been an element of bad luck but as the saying goes you make your own luck and you aren't going to get much luck if you don't get a shot on target, play narrow with weak full-backs and have a scattergun approach to picking the team.

In terms of help I was heartened by Steve Lansdown's BBC interview with Ali Durden.  He was asked if LJ needed help and replied he didn't think so  and "he has a very good assistant manager in John Pemberton,  I have a lot of faith in him, he's been round the block a few times and knows what it is all about."  I think Pembo should and will get his opportunity and I suspect, just as he made some simple but effective changes last time, he would do likewise this time. I'm sure he would add width and pace to the frontline and ensure there was some continuity in the team with some. He'll talk less than Lee but I suspect the players might appreciate that! He's obviously very hard working but I was surprised and liked the passion and skill-set he had for the role, including man management, when he took it on last time as caretaker manager.

I think SL is being generous to Lee with the extra-time he has given him but he's a good man and I'd rather have him as owner than 99% of the other in the league.  He's backed Lee heavily with more cash than most in the Championship and given him high calibre backroom staff such as Des Taylor who has a great track record in player recruitment. That means the worst run in the Club's history is even worse than that stark statistic suggests. 

Lee isn't a 'youth training project' who needs mentoring and the Club doesn't need to add to the already confused state of players with more personnel. It may well be that LJ is like his father and thrives in clubs where fewer resources mean that he can't tinker too much and players are easier to manage. Either way he will be a wealthy man with the settlement from the extended contract and his property portfolio  so SL needs to appreciate the extra time isn't in anyones interests.   He has already been more than fair to him and a personally hard decision needs to be taken sooner rather than later. 

Well balanced view. SLs empathy for LJ is undoubtedly clouding his judgement.

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supercidered

supercidered

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Look, I will explain this for you once.

I frankly couldn't care less what you and your mountain sized ego come out with. Either respond to what I asked in to OP, or go to another thread. I'm not interested in the "sack him now" "he isn't good enough" statements, as there are plenty around and many from people I have respect for (hint: not you).

SL has come out and backed LJ, I'm asking a question of how LJ can be helped. Not interested in anything else you say.

Jesus, somebody is tired!

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cityloyal473

cityloyal473

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

It might be coincidence but adding to the coaching staff didn't help with the appointment of Dean Holden.  The buck stops with LJ and he has responsibility for managing his coaching staff as well as the players.  The performances as well as the results have deteriorated since DH came in.   It will have enabled more split-group coaching (defence, midfield & strikers) and that plus the constant tinkering with personnel and tactics makes it no surprise that the team play has looked disjointed. No doubt confidence has drained away from both players and management. 

There has been an element of bad luck but as the saying goes you make your own luck and you aren't going to get much luck if you don't get a shot on target, play narrow with weak full-backs and have a scattergun approach to picking the team.

In terms of help I was heartened by Steve Lansdown's BBC interview with Ali Durden.  He was asked if LJ needed help and replied he didn't think so  and "he has a very good assistant manager in John Pemberton,  I have a lot of faith in him, he's been round the block a few times and knows what it is all about."  I think Pembo should and will get his opportunity and I suspect, just as he made some simple but effective changes last time, he would do likewise this time. I'm sure he would add width and pace to the frontline and ensure there was some continuity in the team with some. He'll talk less than Lee but I suspect the players might appreciate that! He's obviously very hard working but I was surprised and liked the passion and skill-set he had for the role, including man management, when he took it on last time as caretaker manager.

I think SL is being generous to Lee with the extra-time he has given him but he's a good man and I'd rather have him as owner than 99% of the other in the league.  He's backed Lee heavily with more cash than most in the Championship and given him high calibre backroom staff such as Des Taylor who has a great track record in player recruitment. That means the worst run in the Club's history is even worse than that stark statistic suggests. 

Lee isn't a 'youth training project' who needs mentoring and the Club doesn't need to add to the already confused state of players with more personnel. It may well be that LJ is like his father and thrives in clubs where fewer resources mean that he can't tinker too much and players are easier to manage. Either way he will be a wealthy man with the settlement from the extended contract and his property portfolio  so SL needs to appreciate the extra time isn't in anyones interests.   He has already been more than fair to him and a personally hard decision needs to be taken sooner rather than later. 

Brilliant. 

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