Selred Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I do love how this is all based on one comment on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Selred said: I do love how this is all based on one comment on Twitter. Probably from someone whose mistaken Des Taylor for Keith Burt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said: I agree, I still hope Engvall comes good and he's got time. Hope it's not true about Taylor. I think our fans just aren't used to us spending relatively big (in terms of our history) on players and then they don't play. It shows what's happened in terms of inflation, we spend more or less the same on Nicky Maynard a few years back and that got us a very good Championship standard striker. It was more than double what we paid for Trundle less than 10 years ago and that got us another great player (mis-used unfortunately) complete with image rights! It's the norm now for better or worse. I really hope Engvall makes it, I can't see him getting many minutes now that Taylor is here though barring injury. Perhaps a loan would be good if this can be arranged. Unsure if we can still loan abroad. I think PF it's more this our fans just aren't used to us spending relatively big (in terms of our history) on players and then they don't play , whilst our starting eleven flounders In terms of the money we spent I would guess that most fans would assume that such money would / should bring a quality player , despite being younger , and would be someone , at least playing a part , in first team affairs Im surprised with our current budgets we thought we could spend £2million + on a player who wouldn't be contributing to first team this season Lets hope he gets a break somewhere and proves he's up to Championship Football and turns out to be someone we enjoy watching for years Not convinced mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 40 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I think PF it's more this our fans just aren't used to us spending relatively big (in terms of our history) on players and then they don't play , whilst our starting eleven flounders In terms of the money we spent I would guess that most fans would assume that such money would / should bring a quality player , despite being younger , and would be someone , at least playing a part , in first team affairs Im surprised with our current budgets we thought we could spend £2million + on a player who wouldn't be contributing to first team this season Lets hope he gets a break somewhere and proves he's up to Championship Football and turns out to be someone we enjoy watching for years Not convinced mind I haven't actually had a chance to see him live yet so reserving judgement until I do! The fee does seem high, but I hope that it's not a result of us panicking and needing a bit of good PR after Kodjia left. I do trust our recruitment much more than I have for years, I think the infrastructure and player identification is better than it's ever been. I think though his chances will be even more limited now, unless there are injuries, given Taylor's arrival and no more cup games. Next season maybe.. Then again, if that was the motive and we overspent; why didn't we pinch Taylor on deadline day in August? We've apparently been watching him for a while, 300k, the added needle taking him from Rovers.. maybe we wanted to see how he adapted to League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Conspiracy theory but I wonder if this is over Engvall. Assuming the theory that he's just not good enough and we've bought a dud is true, maybe someone's head had to roll for that outlay. I'd be amazed if we threw £2m at a transfer on the say so of one man, whoever he was and however good. I would expect at least one more from the club, if not the Manager , to watch him a couple of times. While £2m is not much in terms of the Championship, in relation to where we are it is a large fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 I think some good points are being made on this thread. The one thing that stands out for me, is fans getting used to our 'new' spending habits. We will be spending decent money on players that are seen for the near future. £million players will be sat on the bench. Times have moved on. You only have to look at the quality of squads throughout this league to see this. Yes, you'll get the few odd teams that don't...but we are in a position to do this now. Instead of spending £12-15 million on your Gayles and JK's...we'll be spending £2-3 million on players throughout the team. That's how I understand our philosophy. Plus...if we can get a bargain and see it as value for money...we'll do that as well. The only way I can see us spending 'Big' would be if Tammy was allowed to go. Proven Goalscorers in this league are £10 million plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I haven't actually had a chance to see him live yet so reserving judgement until I do! The fee does seem high, but I hope that it's not a result of us panicking and needing a bit of good PR after Kodjia left. I do trust our recruitment much more than I have for years, I think the infrastructure and player identification is better than it's ever been. I think though his chances will be even more limited now, unless there are injuries, given Taylor's arrival and no more cup games. Next season maybe.. Then again, if that was the motive and we overspent; why didn't we pinch Taylor on deadline day in August? We've apparently been watching him for a while, 300k, the added needle taking him from Rovers.. maybe we wanted to see how he adapted to League 1. Good,point PF Not been discussed on here unless I missed it I thought as he was OOC in the summer we might have talked to him , as you say I guess we wanted to see how he fared in L1 Dont think it was adding needle - I'm only guessing , I wonder whether he was ultimately an impulse buy with our current situation - think if we were convinced by him we'd have gone straight in as soon as Jan window opened (You have to ask why we didn't go in as soon as the window opened ?) All in all it's a bit of a strange one but I keep coming back , as we all do to the believed fee of £300 k and don't see how we can lose. I didn't think Lambert would keep stepping up the levels , goal scorers are a strange breed , and if Taylor makes any sort of impact at this level he will be a great acquisition and his value would increase X If he doesn't I'd be confident we will still make a profit on him that will pay for his wages whilst he's here ! Lets hope its the former Hes a free 'punt' , but a 'punt' that has a CV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Good,point PF Not been discussed on here unless I missed it I thought as he was OOC in the summer we might have talked to him , as you say I guess we wanted to see how he fared in L1 Dont think it was adding needle - I'm only guessing , I wonder whether he was ultimately an impulse buy with our current situation - think if we were convinced by him we'd have gone straight in as soon as Jan window opened (You have to ask why we didn't go in as soon as the window opened ?) All in all it's a bit of a strange one but I keep coming back , as we all do to the believed fee of £300 k and don't see how we can lose. I didn't think Lambert would keep stepping up the levels , goal scorers are a strange breed and if Taylor makes any sort of impact at this level he will be a great acquisition and his value would increase If he doesn't I'd be confident we will make a profit on him that will pay for his wages whilst he's here ! Lets hope its the former Hes a free 'punt' , but a 'punt' that has a CV I think we showed interest quite early on fella...but I think the Freeman saga held up progression early on. Freeing up wages etc. Plus he may have not been our number 1 target. If the number 1 target doesn't fall into place, 300K is nothing for some cover. I can fully understand how this has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 People keep saying that Engvall is a dud, I'm just wondering what the evidence for this is? He's a 20 year old kid who joined us with an injury, has barely been given a chance and when he has played has looked alright. Mismanaged? Possibly, but I wouldn't call him a dud. Ask me again in a year, then maybe you can make that call I hope Des Taylor hasn't left, I think he has to get a lot of the credit for our recent good transfers and if we stay up, we're going to need his knowledge/talent again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, spudski said: I think we showed interest quite early on fella...but I think the Freeman saga held up progression early on. Freeing up wages etc. Although we have to budget Spud - I wouldn't have thought getting Freeman out would stop us snapping up an obvious bargain would it ? Plus he may have not been our number 1 target. If the number 1 target doesn't fall into place, 300K is nothing for some cover. I can fully understand how this has happened. Another possible scenario , of course mate, though again my thoughts would be , why not get Taylor as well ! We aren't overloaded with goals if Tammy was to get injured !! As I say I was surprised we didn't try and tempt him across the City when he was OOC - wouldn't have been too difficult to sort his wages , no fee to pay etc Just need a target man called Turner Now !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Think it would be down to budget mate. We've brought in a lot of players over January that will be on decent wages. As for bringing in MT in the summer... I think the late transfer of JK dictated a lot of what we didn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Good,point PF Not been discussed on here unless I missed it I thought as he was OOC in the summer we might have talked to him , as you say I guess we wanted to see how he fared in L1 Dont think it was adding needle - I'm only guessing , I wonder whether he was ultimately an impulse buy with our current situation - think if we were convinced by him we'd have gone straight in as soon as Jan window opened (You have to ask why we didn't go in as soon as the window opened ?) All in all it's a bit of a strange one but I keep coming back , as we all do to the believed fee of £300 k and don't see how we can lose. I didn't think Lambert would keep stepping up the levels , goal scorers are a strange breed , and if Taylor makes any sort of impact at this level he will be a great acquisition and his value would increase X If he doesn't I'd be confident we will still make a profit on him that will pay for his wages whilst he's here ! Lets hope its the former Hes a free 'punt' , but a 'punt' that has a CV I have a feeling that Taylor is going to be a very good signing. He's an instinctive goalscorer and has a bit of grit which we lack as a team. Rovers, to their credit, seem pretty good at developing strikers. Taylor has scored goals at all levels he's played at, players that have stepped up from non/lower league (Vardy, Grey, Gayle, Hogan) have all got those attributes.. natural goalscorers but a bit of grit about them too. It's just a hunch though, I don't watch Rovers much (avoid them at all costs!) so have only seen Taylor play a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, spudski said: Think it would be down to budget mate. We've brought in a lot of players over January that will be on decent wages. As for bringing in MT in the summer... I think the late transfer of JK dictated a lot of what we didn't do. Guess so , it's alright us throwing the money around on here !!! I guess we were waiting to get Ekstrand off the books too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, spudski said: I think some good points are being made on this thread. The one thing that stands out for me, is fans getting used to our 'new' spending habits. We will be spending decent money on players that are seen for the near future. £million players will be sat on the bench. Times have moved on. You only have to look at the quality of squads throughout this league to see this. Yes, you'll get the few odd teams that don't...but we are in a position to do this now. Instead of spending £12-15 million on your Gayles and JK's...we'll be spending £2-3 million on players throughout the team. That's how I understand our philosophy. Plus...if we can get a bargain and see it as value for money...we'll do that as well. The only way I can see us spending 'Big' would be if Tammy was allowed to go. Proven Goalscorers in this league are £10 million plus. Agree, i've got nothing to add on Engvall really as i've not had a chance to watch him yet. Just a possible explanation. I remember a few months back someone, possibly you actually Spudski, said that our model is going to closer to Stoke than Southampton. Developing our own players and buying in for the u23 but also spending quite big on the first team. I might have totally imagined that but i'm convinced someone said it before. Interesting model if so and one that can obviously work. I think if Tammy was made available and we thought we could tempt him, we would be prepared to spend 10m+ on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Good,point PF Not been discussed on here unless I missed it I thought as he was OOC in the summer we might have talked to him , as you say I guess we wanted to see how he fared in L1 in some respects he has been very clever. Were Oxford the stepping stone he wanted? Possibly not. Last thing he maybe wanted was to go there and stagnate....he obviously believes he is good enough....and therefore being stuck in a contract with a hefty price tag might not have been his agenda. So he gets an improved deal with Rovers, but insists on an easy 'get-out', the £300k release clause. Win-Win (except he has to play for them!) Dont think it was adding needle - I'm only guessing , I wonder whether he was ultimately an impulse buy with our current situation - think if we were convinced by him we'd have gone straight in as soon as Jan window opened (You have to ask why we didn't go in as soon as the window opened ?) good point...although we left Rovers in a bad position as a result of leaving it late. All in all it's a bit of a strange one but I keep coming back , as we all do to the believed fee of £300 k and don't see how we can lose. much as I love Garita, I'm sure he will score more than 6 times the amount of goals Arnie ever does for us. I didn't think Lambert would keep stepping up the levels , goal scorers are a strange breed and if Taylor makes any sort of impact at this level he will be a great acquisition and his value would increase they are indeed. Lambert is a good example, not quick at all, but good feet (two footed if needed), intelligent, and some players play better with better players. Funnily enough, Sheringham was another player not blessed with pace, but he was fantastic. When he partnered Cascarino at Millwall, did many of us see him as a future Man Utd and England player. His lack of pace, meant he focussed on clever movement. It also meant he never had it to lose, hence the longevity of his career. If he doesn't I'd be confident we will make a profit on him that will pay for his wages whilst he's here ! Lets hope its the former Hes a free 'punt' , but a 'punt' that has a CV i'm forward to seeing him play. I know he's a goalscorer, and he does score all sorts of goals....but I'm keen to see him all-round game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Agree, i've got nothing to add on Engvall really as i've not had a chance to watch him yet. Just a possible explanation. I remember a few months back someone, possibly you actually Spudski, said that our model is going to closer to Stoke than Southampton. Developing our own players and buying in for the u23 but also spending quite big on the first team. I might have totally imagined that but i'm convinced someone said it before. Interesting model if so and one that can obviously work. I think if Tammy was made available and we thought we could tempt him, we would be prepared to spend 10m+ on him It was me mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: I have a feeling that Taylor is going to be a very good signing. He's an instinctive goalscorer and has a bit of grit which we lack as a team. Rovers, to their credit, seem pretty good at developing strikers. Taylor has scored goals at all levels he's played at, players that have stepped up from non/lower league (Vardy, Grey, Gayle, Hogan) have all got those attributes.. natural goalscorers but a bit of grit about them too. It's just a hunch though, I don't watch Rovers much (avoid them at all costs!) so have only seen Taylor play a few times. I've seen little of him too PF - looks to be an instinctive finisher that , as with Tammy may be better when he doesn't have time (Lots of Sags criticise his one on one finishing) but he pops the odd one in from outside the box too At £300k he's an absolute no brainier for me and we would , rightly be very critical if Brentford or similar had whisked him away from under our noses for £300k Hes certainly someone who's going to be handy to have on the bench at least in our relegation fight , needing a late goal ......... He appears to have a bit of 'cockiness' about him which I like in a goal scorer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Agree, i've got nothing to add on Engvall really as i've not had a chance to watch him yet. Just a possible explanation. I remember a few months back someone, possibly you actually Spudski, said that our model is going to closer to Stoke than Southampton. Developing our own players and buying in for the u23 but also spending quite big on the first team. I might have totally imagined that but i'm convinced someone said it before. Interesting model if so and one that can obviously work. I think if Tammy was made available and we thought we could tempt him, we would be prepared to spend 10m+ on him I agree PF and there was a light hearted discussion on here going back a few days regarding putting in a cheeky bid for TA What brought me into focus was when Bournemouth had a £18million bid turned down for Ake !! What value would they put on TA ? I seriously think they'd want £25-30million at least !! The games gone nuts !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 What's interesting about the Matty Taylor saga...was that it wasn't just Oxford that wanted him in the summer. Leeds offered him a contract as well. Plus he's on record with the Bristol Post as saying 'there were Championship sides that made an offer as well as league 1'... http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/matty-taylor-pens-new-bristol-rovers-contract-after-turning-down-championship-and-league-one-offers/story-29517273-detail/story.html Half the stuff being quoted by the Gas manager is smoke and mirrors imo. For 'personal' reasons I'm purely guessing MT wanted to stay as local as possible. I maybe completely wrong though. But if it were for money or football, Leeds would have been a stepping stone, regardless of what people think of them as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I agree PF and there was a light hearted discussion on here going back a few days regarding putting in a cheeky bid for TA What brought me into focus was when Bournemouth had a £18million bid turned down for Ake !! What value would they put on TA ? I seriously think they'd want £25-30million at least !! The games gone nuts !! Sadly that's probably right, there's no incentive to sell him from Chelsea's perspective and he probably is on tiny wages, relatively speaking, in comparison to the rest of the squad. I think our only hope would be if he doesn't progress as hoped - like Bamford, he falls out with the management or he makes the decision to leave to get first team football. I imagine Chelsea fans would be hoping he or someone like Dominic Solanke can be a home grown young striker they can grt excited about after seeing the success of Rashford at United. I think another loan could be possible, but I would imagine realistically he'll be more likely to get loaned to a top end champ team (maybe someone relegated from the prem) or a lower/middle prem side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Sadly that's probably right, there's no incentive to sell him from Chelsea's perspective and he probably is on tiny wages, relatively speaking, in comparison to the rest of the squad. I think our only hope would be if he doesn't progress as hoped - like Bamford, he falls out with the management or he makes the decision to leave to get first team football. I imagine Chelsea fans would be hoping he or someone like Dominic Solanke can be a home grown young striker they can grt excited about after seeing the success of Rashford at United. I think another loan could be possible, but I would imagine realistically he'll be more likely to get loaned to a top end champ team (maybe someone relegated from the prem) or a lower/middle prem side. He's either going to be sold or loaned out again. I can't see the kid going back and playing development football at Chelsea, or wanting to sit on the bench. Having tasted Championship football and being a first pick every week, that's going to get in your blood. Unless they offer him massive wages to stay, he'd be mad to just fester there. Job satisfaction in football, regardless of wages, gives you the desire to play. Sitting taking a wage is way too easy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Perhaps our SLO can clarify things @AdamB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 So back to the OP, has Des Taylor gone or not, if so why?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: So back to the OP, has Des Taylor gone or not, if so why?. Can't find anything on the Net Did come across this short article - bit about his background Looks like a step up in responsibility and wages I'd suggest to come here so would be surprised if he left quickly of his own accord http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/14438793.AFC_Bournemouth__Boss_Howe_thanks_departing_scout_Taylor_for_his_efforts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Can't find anything on the Net Did come across this short article - bit about his background Looks like a step up in responsibility and wages I'd suggest to come here so would be surprised if he left quickly of his own accord http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/sport/14438793.AFC_Bournemouth__Boss_Howe_thanks_departing_scout_Taylor_for_his_efforts/ The one thing I've been told by Scouts, is that Des has a great knowledge of young players, both here and abroad. He also has a great network of people he works with and has good relationships with other clubs. He's mainly looked at Development type players. That's been his 'forte'...Which that article underlines. No doubting his knowledge of young players. I haven't heard a thing as to whether he's left. But you'd hope, that if he has, we find someone to head the team, that would have both knowledge of development and first team players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted February 3, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Selred said: I do love how this is all based on one comment on Twitter. 13 hours ago, phantom said: One for @Barrs Court Red to answer I guess? Which is why I tagged the person who tweeted the message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes7 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 hours ago, Selred said: I do love how this is all based on one comment on Twitter. Yes it was based on one comment but thought it was an odd one that's why I asked, or is that not allowed ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 hours ago, stokes7 said: Yes it was based on one comment but thought it was an odd one that's why I asked, or is that not allowed ;-) Oh not having a go at you! Just love how 1 comment on Twitter leads to two pages on OTIB.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Selred said: Oh not having a go at you! Just love how 1 comment on Twitter leads to two pages on OTIB.... Don't look at 'Wally's latest tweet' thread. That'll eclipse this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 03/02/2017 at 11:32, phantom said: Which is why I tagged the person who tweeted the message So this was all a load of old bo llo cks then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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