LJ's plan goes out the window...

[aa_bcfc]

9 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

**** me, BORED!!

Not sure why I'm bothering but anyway, here goes.......

I've not said anything about Rotherham being an improvement BUT it got the right result & that was what was required at that time, well, if you want to City win!!

Sheffield Wednesday & Derby have been vast improvements, to the stage that Derby fans have piled appreciation onto us & some of our own SUPPORTERS (the hint is in the title) have said it was the best football we have played in 15 years even with conceding 3 goals in the 2nd half.

I'm bored of trying to get SUPPORTERS to actually do what the meaning of the word means. It's beyond me why anyone would want to payout the money that they do to go & watch a game to then spend the entire time (sometimes 6 hours plus with travelling) moaning but I guess if moaning makes you happy then good luck to you but I'm done on this, there are far more important things in life than SUPPORTING a club that makes you unhappy!!

LJ won't be going anywhere anytime soon, there are other options open to you if feel that you are unable to SUPPORT the club because LJ is in charge, no ones forcing you to SUPPORT the club while you hate it so much.

Where did I say I hate it?  Been there through thick and thin since the 50's. I'll be there after LJ is long gone. Oh and by the way I can be a supporter and still believe that IMHO that LJ will take us down. 

[SedRA]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

i think we need a new rule,

all Johnson threads be it bashing praising, pictures of your johnson, should be banned on match days,

 

anyway nothing against the op it was a good read

Well fortunately for this one I snuck it in just before the end of yesterday.  

[Alessandro]

26 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Good post.

I remain of the opinion that the majority of footballers want and need to be told what to do. So long as the right players are told the right things at the right times, hence why Cotterill did so well here, SOD didn't, and LJ well the jury is still out.

I don't know if you remember the West Brom cup game last season, but listening to Tony Pulis on the touchlines, he micro-managed his players the whole game. He wouldn't stop talking. Then you have managers like Steve Coppell who used to sometimes watch the first half of a game from the stands.  It's an interesting debate. I agree that the majority of footballers want clear instructions, it should be a simple game after all. But I guess the best players can read the game and think for themselves, adjusting to the ebbs and flow of each match.

It's clear this season that too many City players 'lose their way' too often during games, certainly at the end of games. Would more managerial micro management help? Maybe. But for me it's a fear factor, that has clearly accumulated over several games. Therefore there is only so much you can do, tactics or substitution-wise when players are literally going AWOL or standing off their men so much for fear of getting beaten one on one that they give too much space for crosses or invite penalties ALA Golbourne at Derby. 

[cidered abroad]

16 hours ago, pillred said:

PACK drill was that a subliminal clue?

No.

[spudski]

As a manager...shouting Instruction from the touchline, is pretty futile. Only a handful of the players can hear what your saying anyway. The managers are just reinforcing what the players have been already told before they go out and play. Anyone thinking players go out with no game plan beforehand and just listen the managers Instructions during the 90 mins has got it totally wrong. They may implement the odd change during a game, but they don't dictate the whole game vocally.

The 'shouters' are often managers reflecting their own personal characters. Some feel they need to be involved other don't.

There is no right or wrong way.

SC did it, and we triumphed in League 1.

He did it again in the Championship, and has the worst record of any manager for us during that time...so go figure.

Horses for courses...

Like my father used to say...empty vessels make the most noise ;-)

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it in this thread, but rarely do you hear anyone talking about the role of the captain in football.  It's interesting that we have had five or six different captains this season, and on one occasion possibly three in one match alone.  It seems to me that what we are lacking is leadership on the field, not from the touchline.  The only time this season I've felt we had a leader on the field was when Wilbraham is on.  I don't see anyone else geeing them up, or reminding people where they should be or what they should be doing, keeping them focused.  I'm not surprised he's given one of the new players the armband, because there's been a conspicuous lack of leadership from the rest of the squad.

[southvillekiddy]

So Johnson's signed the wrong players

or

is playing the wrong players

or

he's not capable of getting them to play his tactics especially at key times during a game.

[Im_over_ere]

Why not try something in between? For those players who LJ thinks can read the game, give no instruction. For those who he thinks need direction from the sidelines, then shout some directions.

[Red Cloud]

he has a plan?

[screech]

We lack basic instructions from the sidelines. If we are under increased pressure the word needs to go out to the nearest player close to our bench to feign an injury, slow the game down. Gives us enough time to regroup and organise. Basic game management that our bench lack.

People are now trying to have it both ways, the players aren't good enough when the guy signed the majority of them. The old saying is a bad workman always blames his tools.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

**** me, BORED!!

Not sure why I'm bothering but anyway, here goes.......

I've not said anything about Rotherham being an improvement BUT it got the right result & that was what was required at that time, well, if you want to City win!!

Sheffield Wednesday & Derby have been vast improvements, to the stage that Derby fans have piled appreciation onto us & some of our own SUPPORTERS (the hint is in the title) have said it was the best football we have played in 15 years even with conceding 3 goals in the 2nd half.

I'm bored of trying to get SUPPORTERS to actually do what the meaning of the word means. It's beyond me why anyone would want to payout the money that they do to go & watch a game to then spend the entire time (sometimes 6 hours plus with travelling) moaning but I guess if moaning makes you happy then good luck to you but I'm done on this, there are far more important things in life than SUPPORTING a club that makes you unhappy!!

LJ won't be going anywhere anytime soon, there are other options open to you if feel that you are unable to SUPPORT the club because LJ is in charge, no ones forcing you to SUPPORT the club while you hate it so much.

You can get cross with some of us all you want. I paid out for a season ticket because I've been a City SUPPORTER SINCE 1950 AND SHAREHOLDER SINCE 1982 and it's my club.

But it would be nice, with the Club having spent more money since May 2016 than we have EVER invested in players in such a short period, that I wouldn't be supporting a team that is yet again fighting against relegation for the sixth season in the last seven. And a team that prior to the last three games, managed to gain just SEVEN POINTS OUT OF FIFTY ONE POINTS ON OFFER - I can shout just as loudly as you. That is the worst run since I started supporting City in 1950.

So many of us have very good reasons to doubt our Head Coach; his ability to coach and motivate and where is he actually taking this club?

[bristolcitysweden]

"Window" comes from the Vikings "Vindöga", eye for the wind or Windeye, four squared openings at each corner of a room to let smoke out 

[REDOXO]

14 minutes ago, screech said:

We lack basic instructions from the sidelines. If we are under increased pressure the word needs to go out to the nearest player close to our bench to feign an injury, slow the game down. Gives us enough time to regroup and organise. Basic game management that our bench lack.

People are now trying to have it both ways, the players aren't good enough when the guy signed the majority of them. The old saying is a bad workman always blames his tools.

Why is this so obvious to some.

This is starting to look like a mass case of missing the bloody obvious disease to me. BUT the bloke has the opportunity to keep turning it around tonight and good luck to him, I get absolutely no pleasure in being that team. 

But you do have to ask yourself if the bloke was ever experienced enough to become our manager why is he unable to manage our players managing the ball and time on the pitch as above!

10 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

You can get cross with some of us all you want. I paid out for a season ticket because I've been a City SUPPORTER AND SHAREHOLDER SINCE 1982 and it's my club.

But it would be nice, with the Club having spent more money since May 2016 than we have EVER invested in players in such a short period, that I wouldn't be supporting a team that is yet again fighting against relegation for the sixth season in the last seven. And a team that prior to the last three games, managed to gain just SEVEN POINTS OUT OF FIFTY ONE POINTS ON OFFER - I can shout just as loudly as you. That is the worst run since I started supporting City in 1950.

So many of us have very good reasons to doubt our Head Coach; his ability to coach and motivate and where is he actually taking this club?

As above mate. You have every reason to doubt the guy as you stated. He has shown little up until now to show he is good enough or experienced enough. Sadly I think he is not now. BUT that doesn't mean he won't become good enough and SL is prepared to take the huge hit to his pocket to get him there then all we can do is support the team. Just prey he has enough to keep us up!

[spudski]

29 minutes ago, screech said:

We lack basic instructions from the sidelines. If we are under increased pressure the word needs to go out to the nearest player close to our bench to feign an injury, slow the game down. Gives us enough time to regroup and organise. Basic game management that our bench lack.

People are now trying to have it both ways, the players aren't good enough when the guy signed the majority of them. The old saying is a bad workman always blames his tools.

Sorry fella...but you are totally wrong. Having sat next to the dug out, LJ and Pembo are constantly discussing. Both will often shout instruction. Either to the nearest player or further infield.

Have you also not noticed, how many times in a game, when a player goes down injured, that the team all go to the dug out, refresh with fluids and speak to the manager, Pembo and as a group. It happens very often.

Not being funny...an honest question...Do you go to the match's? And if so...how can you not see this?

[BCFC Rich]

36 minutes ago, screech said:

We lack basic instructions from the sidelines. If we are under increased pressure the word needs to go out to the nearest player close to our bench to feign an injury, slow the game down. Gives us enough time to regroup and organise. Basic game management that our bench lack.

People are now trying to have it both ways, the players aren't good enough when the guy signed the majority of them. The old saying is a bad workman always blames his tools.

 

Sorry but it's these things that wind me up. As mentioned by Spud this clearly happens - it's not even subtle. Only a couple of games ago it was the changes and instructions from the bench that turned the game in our favor. But then its a case of 'should have had us set up right from the start.' 

[spudski]

Regarding 'should have had us set up right from the start.'  It's worth remembering that the Coach can only set up the team based on how they think the opposition may set up. This done from watching previous games and having Scout reports on the opposition plus video analysis.

If the Coach receives the team sheet an hour before kick off and it's completely different, then often teams have to be shuffled during a match. Look at Derby changing their two CM within 30 mins of us starting.

You can only set up how you think it might pan out.

It's often like a game of chess during a game. Both managers trying to outwit one another.

[BCFC Rich]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Regarding 'should have had us set up right from the start.'  It's worth remembering that the Coach can only set up the team based on how they think the opposition may set up. This done from watching previous games and having Scout reports on the opposition plus video analysis.

If the Coach receives the team sheet an hour before kick off and it's completely different, then often teams have to be shuffled during a match. Look at Derby changing their two CM within 30 mins of us starting.

You can only set up how you think it might pan out.

It's often like a game of chess during a game. Both managers trying to outwit one another.

 

That is actually basically what I meant :laugh:. Didn't write it very clearly but I meant other people were complaining it: 'should have had us set up right from the start.' 

[Tipps69]

10 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

You can get cross with some of us all you want. I paid out for a season ticket because I've been a City SUPPORTER SINCE 1950 AND SHAREHOLDER SINCE 1982 and it's my club.

But it would be nice, with the Club having spent more money since May 2016 than we have EVER invested in players in such a short period, that I wouldn't be supporting a team that is yet again fighting against relegation for the sixth season in the last seven. And a team that prior to the last three games, managed to gain just SEVEN POINTS OUT OF FIFTY ONE POINTS ON OFFER - I can shout just as loudly as you. That is the worst run since I started supporting City in 1950.

So many of us have very good reasons to doubt our Head Coach; his ability to coach and motivate and where is he actually taking this club?

And in the grand scheme of things you will realise that what we have spent over say the last 5 years is considerably less than the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Leeds, Reading, Norwich, Fulham, Forest, Wolves, QPR & to some extent Blackburn, Wigan & Cardiff & apart from Wigan who only gained their Championship status back this season our reputation in the game is very small.

Maybe only 4 other clubs have been lower than the Championship over the last few years so we have missed out on all the financial gains that everyone has been reaping & in turn they have spent much more than us on transfers & wages & able to attract a higher caliber of player because given a choice a Championship quality player would rather play for a club who are as good as guaranteed Championship football or the chance of promotion to the Premier League than playing for a club who yo-yo's between the Championship & League One & pays less than their competitors!!

We are a very small club in a fairly big pond but we are progressing & changing the manager / head coach every year isn't going to help us progress because after paying out the most we ever have (as you rightly state) it would mean any new manager / head coach will want to bring his own players in & that will again cost us massively but now we'd have the problem of having a reputation of changing the head honcho every year & unless the players are in it solely for the money, we will struggle to attract anyone for the long term project if they fear a new man in charge in a years time!!

There is no magic formula for success in this division & while you rightly state about our expenditure, take a look at others in this division, Villa are a prime example, spent £10m or more on 3 individual players in about 6 months plus probably another £20-30m on the rest of their squad yet they haven't won a game for something like 9 games & are only a few points ahead of us, everyone except Huddersfield (who have probably spent about the same as us) have spent way more than we have over the last few years.

Our transfer record stands at £3m, everyone else in the top half bar Huddersfield, Barnsley & Preston have record fee's of around £10m or more plus all the other deals in between, even the likes of Cardiff & Blackburn have recent time in the Premier League to bring their reputation & stature up.

We don't have any god given right to be pushing for the play-offs or outright promotion & with having SUPPORTED (put in capitals to enhance the fact that it means you support the club, not shouting it) the club for 60 odd years, I would of thought you would be better qualified than most to know that we don't just get given something for nothing in this game & that SUPPORTING the club is far more beneficial in the long run rather than picking fault with anything & everything the club or certain individuals do.

What we need is a few years to continue our growth & enhance our reputation in the game on the grand scheme of things & with that will come the financial benefits & greater reputation & that will allow for us to continue spending as we have & to maybe attract a better quality of players & could even allow us to compete against the bigger clubs for the better players in the division but at present we aren't in the same ballpark as the Newcastle's or Villa's of this division.

And everyone pulling in the same direction & supporting the club (instead of picking fault at every opportunity) will help our club grow.

[Alessandro]

54 minutes ago, screech said:

We lack basic instructions from the sidelines. If we are under increased pressure the word needs to go out to the nearest player close to our bench to feign an injury, slow the game down. Gives us enough time to regroup and organise. Basic game management that our bench lack.

People are now trying to have it both ways, the players aren't good enough when the guy signed the majority of them. The old saying is a bad workman always blames his tools.

Interesting you say the bench lacks game management.

LJ was talking about that exact thing the other day, when he said as a player when they needed to waste time, he would say to Carey or Bradley or whoever it was at the time, give me the ball and I'll send it over to Sproule to run into the corner. 

So I think the manager does understand the concept. He just needs his players to take responsibility sometimes.

[Portland Bill]

20 hours ago, RedSA said:

Interesting to hear Scott Golbourne's interview on player today. Talking about games where we've thrown away winning positions, he said words to the effect of: "A number of times the gaffers given us a plan that works and we nail it, then we try to protect what we've got and we forget what we were doing right". It wasn't all in one sentence like that but its essentially what he was saying. 

He also talked about game management and maybe sometimes needing a 'Warnock style' approach as getting a bit dirty. 

In light of how much the responsibility for game management seems to fall at LJs feet on OTIB I thought it was interesting to hear one of the players say that it was their own fault for not having the courage of their convictions to follow through with the tactics that were working.

 

EDIT: just wanted to clarify that this is not to qualify an LJ in/out agenda just thought it was an intersting nugget of info on the game management debate  

 

Only half the team that played against Reading when we collapsed played at Derby.

So I find it strange that the 2nd half collapse is still happening. The same person is conducting the game plan and picking the team, 

The tactics used seems to be the common denominator.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

And in the grand scheme of things you will realise that what we have spent over say the last 5 years is considerably less than the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Leeds, Reading, Norwich, Fulham, Forest, Wolves, QPR & to some extent Blackburn, Wigan & Cardiff & apart from Wigan who only gained their Championship status back this season our reputation in the game is very small.

Maybe only 4 other clubs have been lower than the Championship over the last few years so we have missed out on all the financial gains that everyone has been reaping & in turn they have spent much more than us on transfers & wages & able to attract a higher caliber of player because given a choice a Championship quality player would rather play for a club who are as good as guaranteed Championship football or the chance of promotion to the Premier League than playing for a club who yo-yo's between the Championship & League One & pays less than their competitors!!

We are a very small club in a fairly big pond but we are progressing & changing the manager / head coach every year isn't going to help us progress because after paying out the most we ever have (as you rightly state) it would mean any new manager / head coach will want to bring his own players in & that will again cost us massively but now we'd have the problem of having a reputation of changing the head honcho every year & unless the players are in it solely for the money, we will struggle to attract anyone for the long term project if they fear a new man in charge in a years time!!

There is no magic formula for success in this division & while you rightly state about our expenditure, take a look at others in this division, Villa are a prime example, spent £10m or more on 3 individual players in about 6 months plus probably another £20-30m on the rest of their squad yet they haven't won a game for something like 9 games & are only a few points ahead of us, everyone except Huddersfield (who have probably spent about the same as us) have spent way more than we have over the last few years.

Our transfer record stands at £3m, everyone else in the top half bar Huddersfield, Barnsley & Preston have record fee's of around £10m or more plus all the other deals in between, even the likes of Cardiff & Blackburn have recent time in the Premier League to bring their reputation & stature up.

We don't have any god given right to be pushing for the play-offs or outright promotion & with having SUPPORTED (put in capitals to enhance the fact that it means you support the club, not shouting it) the club for 60 odd years, I would of thought you would be better qualified than most to know that we don't just get given something for nothing in this game & that SUPPORTING the club is far more beneficial in the long run rather than picking fault with anything & everything the club or certain individuals do.

What we need is a few years to continue our growth & enhance our reputation in the game on the grand scheme of things & with that will come the financial benefits & greater reputation & that will allow for us to continue spending as we have & to maybe attract a better quality of players & could even allow us to compete against the bigger clubs for the better players in the division but at present we aren't in the same ballpark as the Newcastle's or Villa's of this division.

And everyone pulling in the same direction & supporting the club (instead of picking fault at every opportunity) will help our club grow.

Why is it, so many of our fan base don't understand this basic concept when talking about how much we've spent, compared to other teams in this division?

It's a basic understanding when following your club. I'm gobsmacked at how many people just don't seem to understand.

Fair play for trying to educate fella...it must be hurting your head by now.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Sorry, I'm done, I'm completely bored by all of it now, there are more important things in life, well there are in mine anyway & I need to concentrate on me now instead of bothering myself with something that isn't going to happen any time soon!!

City aren't going to sack LJ in the foreseeable future especially if the clubs performances continue to improve as they have done.

You're right that unless we go on another bad run and get overtaken and are in the relegation zone, LJ will still be here.

I think SL sees relegation as a huge waste.

I think SL sees 'survival' (say 18th-21st) as a wasted opportunity to kick on to where he wants to be, but I think he'll give LJ benefit of the doubt and that third window.

Tipps - I got bored of writing the same thing, arguing my point - and I guess you've reached the same conclusion from a different side of the fence.  It consumed too much time and you end up not persuading anyone to change their view.

I do see some small shoots of recovery.

I'm trying to concentrate my posts to events on the pitch...but not easy when you 'watch' the game on Twitter (Sat) or 'watch' on the radio tonight. 

I think / hope we will get something tonight.

[Tipps69]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Why is it, so many of our fan base don't understand this basic concept when talking about how much we've spent, compared to other teams in this division?

It's a basic understanding when following your club. I'm gobsmacked at how many people just don't seem to understand.

Fair play for trying to educate fella...it must be hurting your head by now.

As I've said elsewhere Ian, it's getting boring now & there are far more important things going on in the world than our football club losing a game of football & thinking that the world as we know it is over.

For a club with such little success over the years, I don't know how we've ended up with supporters who suddenly think we should be Chelsea!!

[screech]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Sorry fella...but you are totally wrong. Having sat next to the dug out, LJ and Pembo are constantly discussing. Both will often shout instruction. Either to the nearest player or further infield.

Have you also not noticed, how many times in a game, when a player goes down injured, that the team all go to the dug out, refresh with fluids and speak to the manager, Pembo and as a group. It happens very often.

Not being funny...an honest question...Do you go to the match's? And if so...how can you not see this?

Yes you are being funny, yes I do go to plenty of matches and have a good understanding of the game. I don't choose to tell everyone on a forum how knowledgeable I am though.

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, screech said:

Yes you are being funny, yes I do go to plenty of matches and have a good understanding of the game. I don't choose to tell everyone on a forum how knowledgeable I am though.

Well if I am being funny, Which I wasn't, but you chose to go this route...it's best you don't tell anyone on here how knowledgeable you are, because we'd all struggle to believe you going by your daft comments. I suggest Specsavers

[screech]

5 minutes ago, spudski said:

Well if I am being funny, Which I wasn't, but you chose to go this route...it's best you don't tell anyone on here how knowledgeable you are, because we'd all struggle to believe you going by your daft comments. I suggest Specsavers

It just means I'm not a smug arsehole that parades his opinion on a forum as the holy grail of footballing knowledge, sound familiar "coach"

[spudski]

19 minutes ago, screech said:

It just means I'm not a smug arsehole that parades his opinion on a forum as the holy grail of footballing knowledge, sound familiar "coach"

No...just a thick one ;-)

[screech]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

No...just a thick one ;-)

Oooow, get you!

From the guy who advised us that SOD was the best thing since slice bread, hated our double winning manager and now backs this idiot as the second coming. Perhaps when you get over yourself you might find it's your footballing judgement thats lacking.

[screech]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh **** off you ****...you were completely wrong in what you said, be a man and admit it. You've been called out by me and others, as you were completely wrong.

But instead you chose to go on the offensive.

Grow up you *****.

Hypocrite

[Red Army 75]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh **** off you ****...you were completely wrong in what you said, be a man and admit it. You've been called out by me and others, as you were completely wrong.

But instead you chose to go on the offensive.

Grow up you *****.

Bit strong don't u think