Throwing away 2 goal leads - very poor

[22A]

In that League Cup Final Man U showed how when a two goal lead evaporates, attack again and get a late winner rather than hang on for a draw and call it a good result.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

In that League Cup Final Man U showed how when a two goal lead evaporates, attack again and get a late winner rather than hang on for a draw and call it a good result.

And if we had lost 3-2 because we had been caught on the break trying to get the winner would LJ have been applauded for that, or would the threads all have been about our lack of game management again? The only thing we had in common with Man Utd on Saturday is that both our strikers were in their mid 30's. Man United were favourites to win their game, Newcastle were favourites to win ours, which one failed to live up to that favourite status?

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

And if we had lost 3-2 because we had been caught on the break trying to get the winner would LJ have been applauded for that, or would the threads all have been about our lack of game management again? The only thing we had in common with Man Utd on Saturday is that both our strikers were in their mid 30's. Man United were favourites to win their game, Newcastle were favourites to win ours, which one failed to live up to that favourite status?

back in October he would of, currently no, he needs to have 3 or 4 games in a row where we are comfortable winners to start winning back the trust

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think it's the substitutions and tactics.

Clearly- bucking the trends earlier in the season, when we came on strong in the 2nd half of games for about the 1st 3rd of the season, it was inevitable we would;d get back in most of the time- when we did we usually won. 

Now it seems the reverse happens- Derby and now Newcastle, Reading. Dunno what it is exactly- but substitutions of late seem too late, incorrect. Perhaps too late to shore things up- Derby being the prime example, Newcastle was still a good point in the circs but Derby we should have won no doubt about it. Reading we should have won.

It all to me though comes from a bigger thing this season. How many truly quality 90 minute performances? 2 halves as strong as the other, how many have we put in this season? Fulham away is one obviously, Leeds at Home was pretty competitive throughout but there really are not many are there? Quality followed by consistency- or vice versa.

Maybe I will go through it game by game- but coming from behind or having to keep coming from behind...will wear down a side, will cause some mental collapse eventually.

[MarcusX]

21 hours ago, RichardEdd said:

I thought I'd get some more detail on this and it's not great:

#	Club		Times leading	Wins	Draws	Losses
1		Brighton & Hove Albion	22	20	2	0
2		Newcastle United	26	22	3	1
3		Huddersfield Town	23	20	3	0
4		Leeds United	21	18	2	1
5		Reading FC	20	18	1	1
6		Sheffield Wednesday	20	17	2	1
7		Fulham FC	20	14	4	2
8		Norwich City	21	15	4	2
9		Preston North End	17	13	4	0
10		Barnsley FC	18	14	2	2
11		Derby County	18	13	3	2
12		Cardiff City	18	13	4	1
13		Brentford FC	16	11	2	3
14		Birmingham City	16	10	3	3
15		Ipswich Town	15	10	5	0
16		Queens Park Rangers	15	11	3	1
17		Aston Villa	18	8	8	2
18		Nottingham Forest	19	10	4	5
19		Burton Albion	13	9	3	1
20		Wolverhampton Wanderers	13	9	2	2
21		Bristol City	15	9	2	4
22		Wigan Athletic	12	7	1	4
23		Blackburn Rovers	11	7	3	1
24		Rotherham United	13	4	5	4

Although I then looked at the opposite and ....

#	Club		deficits	Wins	Draws	Losses	Points
1		Fulham FC	20	4	8	8	20
2		Nottingham Forest	24	4	3	17	15
3		Brighton & Hove Albion	12	3	5	4	14
4		Cardiff City	19	4	1	14	13
5		Bristol City	25	3	4	18	13
6		Blackburn Rovers	23	3	4	16	13
7		Sheffield Wednesday	15	3	3	9	12
8		Barnsley FC	18	3	3	12	12
9		Reading FC	15	2	4	9	10
10		Wolverhampton Wanderers	20	2	4	14	10
11		Huddersfield Town	12	2	2	8	8
12		Preston North End	15	1	4	10	7
13		Birmingham City	18	1	4	13	7
14		Ipswich Town	16	1	3	12	6
15		Aston Villa	16	1	3	12	6
16		Leeds United	14	1	2	11	5
17		Norwich City	15	1	2	12	5
18		Derby County	13	1	2	10	5
19		Brentford FC	17	1	2	14	5
20		Burton Albion	19	1	2	16	5
21		Newcastle United	9	1	1	7	4
22		Queens Park Rangers	19	0	4	15	4
23		Wigan Athletic	20	0	3	17	3
24		Rotherham United	26	0	2	24	2

Which is quite amazing really. It suggests that we geniunally are better off going behind!

It also suggests where LJ weakness is knowing how to control a game once we're ahead. I think that could be his lack of experience and perhaps almost a need on his part to be seen to being doing something - tinkering with the team he has actually already set up well.

What is also shows is that he does know how to annalise and adapt to the opposition. He clearly has a talent for that and that shows his ability to read the game and tactically out-think his opponents. It looks to me that he just needs to learn to not change for the sake of change.

How do you work that out? 29 points from leading positions, 13 from losing positions?

We still generally win more often than not if we take the lead, and lose more often than not when we go behind.

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, 22A said:

In that League Cup Final Man U showed how when a two goal lead evaporates, attack again and get a late winner rather than hang on for a draw and call it a good result.

No comparison there at all!

[Mr Popodopolous]

a pointless duplication

[BCFC Rich]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

How do you work that out? 29 points from leading positions, 13 from losing positions?

We still generally win more often than not if we take the lead, and lose more often than not when we go behind.

Because what normally happens in a league is you compare yourself to the other teams in it. We are the fourth worst in the league at hanging on  to a least which is terrible. And  the fifth best in the league at turning it around. 

What you are describing is the same for pretty much everyone - the league tables I presented show this. This thread is about how good or bad we are at protecting a lead the tables show this exactly and in comparison to everyone else. 

[JamesBCFC]

On 25/02/2017 at 20:55, Bristol Rob said:

Please prove that out net spend was one of the highest in the division and that Warnock would have won these games and I will reply sensibly 

Seeing as our net spend was virtually £0 in the summer, and is now about £1.5m at most we will have one of the lower net spends in the division.

However some people like to use 'alternative facts'.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 25/02/2017 at 20:59, LC_ said:

We were never expected to take even a point so regardless of the fashion in which that point happened, LJ deserves the credit for achieving it. I'm not entirely surprised the team struggled to keep the two goal lead for 90 minutes - Wilbs is 37, Smith lacking match practice, so against a team top of the league, it's not a massive surprise to concede late in the 2nd half.

One swallow doesn't make a summer however, and I've still not seen enough from LJ  to have a new found belief that he's the right man to lead the club forward. 

I'm sorry but I don't agree, when you are in the same division (not league) as 23 other clubs, you are acknowledged as being at the same level at them. Obviously a lot of others factors come into play but I still don't accept comments like "we were never expected to take a point..." Why not? Why the hell not?!

But to be fair to you, it seems like the players don't think we belong in this division sometimes, we've given away two goal leads, three goal leads, 2-1 situations....etc...

[Up The City!]

2 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I'm sorry but I don't agree, when you are in the same division (not league) as 23 other clubs, you are acknowledged as being at the same level at them. Obviously a lot of others factors come into play but I still don't accept comments like "we were never expected to take a point..." Why not? Why the hell not?!

But to be fair to you, it seems like the players don't think we belong in this division sometimes, we've given away two goal leads, three goal leads, 2-1 situations....etc...

I honestly thought we'd be hammered 4+ I didn't even look at the team sheet because that's how little faith I had in us. I was there for the piss up, for the occasion. We don't get good cup draws so this was as close as we get to having one of those. 

In this particular ground, against a top team, against a roaring 49k Geordies our team did incredibly well to hang on.