Am I genuinely in a minority that doesn't hold a personal resentment towards LJ?

[Chairman Mao]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

He's being managed by his dad, what do you expect?

It's a shame he doesn't have the ability of his dad to take a decent side to the top half of a league.

[redandy1]

16 hours ago, JHAGa said:

I completely understand frustration for what's happened this season but I still like Lee and don't understand the need for personal abuse which is rife on here and social media. He's been unlucky at times but is, of course, deserving of criticism for where we currently find ourselves.

 

I also understand frustrations at what happened with Pemberton and I particularly am annoyed with the statement the club put out that showed him no respect, but ultimately LJ should be able to decide his own coaching set-up. It's the board that wanted to part ways with Pemberton earlier than planned, it's the board that have stuck with Lee, it's the board that have made it difficult for numerous managers over the years. Yes, people can ask why are they showing so much loyalty to Lee, especially when compared to other managers like Cotts, but that's the board's fault not LJ. All my grievances over this season are with the board.

 

I followed Lee as a manager at Oldham/Barnsley. I think at Oldham particularly he did a very good job with limited resources. I understand why we went for him with his links to the club, although I, like many, knew it'd be a gamble at the time. I understand why SL wants to stick with him and try and break the pattern of bringing in a new manager every year. Again, I'm frustrated he didn't do the same with Cotts who genuinely deserved backing but I do get what he's trying to do. Maybe it's romanticism due to his surname but on paper, he's a young highly-rated coach who knows and admires the club and buys into what SL and the board want (in sense, a yes man, I don't think it's amiss to state that).

 

It's been a terrible 4 months but he came in and did a good job before that. He cares about the club and hasn't deliberately got us in this position, he's lost his best player at the end of August without a replacement, he/the team have genuinely been unlucky in numerous games with ref decisions and when it comes to LJ, players failing to take clear-cut chances or giving away unnecessary penalties. His inexperience over the course of recent months has definitely been evident and nobody could argue if he had been sacked but he's clearly the board's man and they have made a massive gamble in remaining loyal to him. If he's out of his depth, the board are to blame for not getting rid, Lee isn't not trying and has good intentions. I'd love nothing more than us to stay up after the next ten games and for him to lead us to a successful season next year.

What hope have we got when you read posts like this. I hope you have a great time watching your  promising young  coach in league1. But I cannot stomach watching a managet ,with so little ability and so much to say,try and learn his trade at the expense of Bristol City. 

[JHAGa]

1 minute ago, redandy1 said:

What hope have we got when you read posts like this. I hope you have a great time watching your  promising young  coach in league1. But I cannot stomach watching a managet ,with so little ability and so much to say,try and learn his trade at the expense of Bristol City. 

 

You've completely missed the point of the post, so not much hope.

[Bazooka Joe]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

It reminds me of a mob shouting "Burn the witch, burn the witch!"

Slightly before my time, but football must certainly have been very different in them days.

Oh yeh, and it would be so politically incorrect to chant that now - what would the stewards say?

[Bat Fastard]

4 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Oh yeh, and it would be so politically incorrect to chant that now - what would the stewards say?

They would probably join in!

[Bazooka Joe]

4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

They would probably join in!

Heh heh , you're right - they'd all get fired up.

[winterbournered]

17 hours ago, JHAGa said:

I completely understand frustration for what's happened this season but I still like Lee and don't understand the need for personal abuse which is rife on here and social media. He's been unlucky at times but is, of course, deserving of criticism for where we currently find ourselves.

 

I also understand frustrations at what happened with Pemberton and I particularly am annoyed with the statement the club put out that showed him no respect, but ultimately LJ should be able to decide his own coaching set-up. It's the board that wanted to part ways with Pemberton earlier than planned, it's the board that have stuck with Lee, it's the board that have made it difficult for numerous managers over the years. Yes, people can ask why are they showing so much loyalty to Lee, especially when compared to other managers like Cotts, but that's the board's fault not LJ. All my grievances over this season are with the board.

 

I followed Lee as a manager at Oldham/Barnsley. I think at Oldham particularly he did a very good job with limited resources. I understand why we went for him with his links to the club, although I, like many, knew it'd be a gamble at the time. I understand why SL wants to stick with him and try and break the pattern of bringing in a new manager every year. Again, I'm frustrated he didn't do the same with Cotts who genuinely deserved backing but I do get what he's trying to do. Maybe it's romanticism due to his surname but on paper, he's a young highly-rated coach who knows and admires the club and buys into what SL and the board want (in sense, a yes man, I don't think it's amiss to state that).

 

It's been a terrible 4 months but he came in and did a good job before that. He cares about the club and hasn't deliberately got us in this position, he's lost his best player at the end of August without a replacement, he/the team have genuinely been unlucky in numerous games with ref decisions and when it comes to LJ, players failing to take clear-cut chances or giving away unnecessary penalties. His inexperience over the course of recent months has definitely been evident and nobody could argue if he had been sacked but he's clearly the board's man and they have made a massive gamble in remaining loyal to him. If he's out of his depth, the board are to blame for not getting rid, Lee isn't not trying and has good intentions. I'd love nothing more than us to stay up after the next ten games and for him to lead us to a successful season next year.

Yes you are. I personally have no bad blood towards him!

Didn't when he was a player and don't now. Think he's very lucky to still be in a job and I would've pulled the trigger by now. But all this hatred and conspiracy theories is crazy. People who hated him as a player because his dad was manager are now hating him because they think his dad is still the manager. Go figure. It's friggin crazy on here at the moment! 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

You want to compare these with the playing stats of Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Arsene Wenger to name but 3. I have worked with people who are great at their job but are totally clueless at being Managers. THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT ROLES. 

Our hero has the dubious honour of being shit at both.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

2 hours ago, Super said:

I don't hate I just don't rate.

I used to not rate, now I hate (!)

Actually "hate" is a bit strong, but he really, really, really gets on my tits.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

2 hours ago, Chairman Mao said:

I am coming to really dislike LJ. 

It is increasing apparent that he is an incompetent buffoon in many aspects, the football management role being the most obvious.

I wish he could get the "Homes Under The Hammer" gig.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, winterbournered said:

Yes you are. I personally have no bad blood towards him!

Didn't when he was a player and don't now. Think he's very lucky to still be in a job and I would've pulled the trigger by now. But all this hatred and conspiracy theories is crazy. People who hated him as a player because his dad was manager are now hating him because they think his dad is still the manager. Go figure. It's friggin crazy on here at the moment! 

The vast majority of supporters want him gone. That is because he is awful at his job and has turned us into a laughing stock.

The tiny minority who have some stupid personal axe to grind are irrelevant and not some over riding power house of supporters. Failure is relevant. Lee Johnson has failed so spectacularly it is commented on by people well outside of this forum everyday and yet he is still here.

The conspiracy ends there!

 

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The vast majority of supporters want him gone. That is because he is awful at his job and has turned us into a laughing stock.

The tiny minority who have some stupid personal axe to grind are irrelevant and not some over riding power house of supporters. Failure is relevant. Lee Johnson has failed so spectacularly it is commented on by people well outside of this forum everyday and yet he is still here.

The conspiracy ends there!

 

I want him gone too, RO, but when people were calling for other manager's heads there wasn't the vitriol towards them although in terms of success they were far worse - at least LJ can claim credit for one purple patch in his management here, that's more that SOD or McInnes can.

Moreover he (and other club figures) seem to be getting it in the neck for everything - from basketball at half-time (so what?!) to someone's phone call not being answered. I await someone telling us that LJ/Lansdown/Mark Ashton is responsible for a flat pint of Butcombe they drank at half-time.

The real pitchforks and torches lynch-mob have come out since Pembo was let go. Now I don't think sacking someone ("behind their back" - eh??) makes you a "snake". We sound like deluded Gasheads when we talk like that. Whatever you think of Lee, he has his head on his shoulders and no way will he have thought: "I know, if I sack the assistant it will take all the heat off me!" No Pemberton went because LJ thought he was a problem in either not being up the defensive coaching, or not being positive enough, or perhaps just for dissenting with him. Without hearing from the horses mouths, we have no idea of the circumstances or whether there was any justification in it. LJ isn't great on the judgement stakes, and it probably is yet another mistake, but losing Pemberton isn't something that will bring the club crashing down.

[Toffee dog]

Didn't have a probllem with him as a player thought he was treated harshly. Underwhelmed with his managerial appointment, supported him because he was the manager of BCFC but he needs to go. Have no inside knowledge of his managerial credentials, but concerned he hasn't any! 

 

[Red Exile]

No problem with him personally at all. I rather liked him as a player. He's proved himself out of his depth this season though, and shouldn't still be here.

[Tears in rain]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It reminds me of a mob shouting "Burn the witch, burn the witch!"

 

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Tears in rain said:

 

 

"LJ turned me into a newt!"

 

 

 

"I got better...."

[winterbournered]

22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I want him gone too, RO, but when people were calling for other manager's heads there wasn't the vitriol towards them although in terms of success they were far worse - at least LJ can claim credit for one purple patch in his management here, that's more that SOD or McInnes can.

Moreover he (and other club figures) seem to be getting it in the neck for everything - from basketball at half-time (so what?!) to someone's phone call not being answered. I await someone telling us that LJ/Lansdown/Mark Ashton is responsible for a flat pint of Butcombe they drank at half-time.

The real pitchforks and torches lynch-mob have come out since Pembo was let go. Now I don't think sacking someone ("behind their back" - eh??) makes you a "snake". We sound like deluded Gasheads when we talk like that. Whatever you think of Lee, he has his head on his shoulders and no way will he have thought: "I know, if I sack the assistant it will take all the heat off me!" No Pemberton went because LJ thought he was a problem in either not being up the defensive coaching, or not being positive enough, or perhaps just for dissenting with him. Without hearing from the horses mouths, we have no idea of the circumstances or whether there was any justification in it. LJ isn't great on the judgement stakes, and it probably is yet another mistake, but losing Pemberton isn't something that will bring the club crashing down.

This is spot on. 

Also the amount of stick SL is getting is unbelievable. LJ needs to go because he's failed, pure and simple. He has his way of doing things, it's not worked completely but he did keep us up so not a complete failure.

The Pemberton episode I purely put down to last chance saloon for LJ. Something along the lines of I've tried working him, it's not worked, we're still conceding goals, I believe if we do this and that we can improve. And the board and SL have bought it but if things don't improve I think he'll be gone. 

[Olé]

18 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

No I don't hate him, as I have never met him; but I believe he should have behaved with more respect to the club and himself and resigned.

This is my take too. @JHAGa's original post is well balanced, and fair, and I agree with it. I have never hated Lee Johnson, didn't as a player, didn't think he was our best player, but also couldn't abide the scapegoating when it was obvious he often wasn't to blame. Didn't expect to see him appointed, but warmed to the storyline that was built up around him by the club and then by him himself. I'm sure I wasn't the only one. Ambition is easy to get behind. I'm loyal to managers, as stated before I was defending the last 3 or 4 incumbents when they were sacked. I was a happy clapper apparently, many times round before.

So there is nothing in my MO that makes me hate Lee Johnson. But I am really starting to. I am not impatient, I am not nasty, but I have a natural reaction to the continued and persistent failure of people I want to look up to, in circumstances that so frequently have been addressable. I dislike the conceited nature that has so often accompanied his failures. Yes, there has been exasperated stuff here and elsewhere which crosses a line between criticism and personal abuse. It's not necessary or warranted. But that doesn't mean the resentment is all deep seated against Johnson since before he started. Mine is only a month old.

It started circa the Forest game, at which point for me his position was completely untenable. My resentment - or hate if you want to call it that - is that someone who had said so much about what he thinks about our club, doesn't show any signs of respect for the club or even his own standing, to admit this isn't working and step aside. To put the club before his own ego. To have a sense of personal responsibility to the club to stop digging. To even, at this point, recognise the damage being done to the club's owner and benefactor, by the sense of responsibility that Steve Lansdown has clearly taken for defending Johnson.

So for the past six weeks I have started to resent Lee Johnson. Hate is a horrible word, but I do hate what he is letting himself and the club become. He says he loves City, but he is the one person with power to at least arrest the current situation and provide scope for a fresh approach, and he shows no signs of taking it. I know others say in his defence "he's trying his hardest". But only in the simplest sense of the phrase. The hardest thing for him seems to be to stop. To admit the situation. To do the honourable thing.... To just keep trying looks increasingly like an easy option. I resent him because he keeps taking it. 

[Langford Red]

Yes

[Portland Bill]

17 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

I've not claimed that LJ has done a good job, I stated nobody would have been surprised if he had been sacked. My point was that I don't dislike him like a lot of people seem to - the point my post is making is the title of the thread. I'm happy to have been reassured that many share similar sentiments to me.

 

One thing I will remain adamant in my beliefs for, is that losing Kodjia impacted us massively. Tammy is a completely different type of player and we were using both of them together at the start of the season, he wasn't a replacement. Kodjia was a massive loss to the team regardless of the price tag, especially when we didn't have a replacement although we were making panic bids for players on deadline day to try and rectify it. The board made a mistake in selling him so late, other clubs weren't so naive.

If Johnson really wanted to keep Kodjia he would have played him as his main striker. Instead he played him as a right winger. I clearly remember the home game v Newcastle, I was sat pitchside in the Dolman. Kodjia spent the whole of the second half 5-10 yards from me looking totally bemused. Another tactical master stroke from LJ, play your 20 goal striker in a position he least effective. That would have been the day Kodjia knew his future lay elsewhere. 

[Wanderingred]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Allow me to answer on his behalf.

He thinks he can turn it round,  he doesn't think he is picking the wrong side, he thinks the defence has been weak so maybe best ditch Pembo, he wants to be a success and to do that he has to succeed here, he has faith in his own abilities. 

Those, I'm sure, are closer to the reasons why he doesn't resign than "he wants to destroy the club" as some are saying. 

I think he's wrong on most of the points, but I have no reason to call him anything stronger than deluded as to his own abilities, which quite a few people are.

The explosion of violent anger on Otib suddenly is something I just don't get.

It reminds me of a mob shouting "Burn the witch, burn the witch!"

On another thread there is a pretty anodyne interview with Mark Ashton where he says the sort of things you'd expect him to. Apart from the horror of him talking about Lee's "next season here" - which he'd say even if they were entertaining severe doubts, no one uses a video on a website to give a manager an ultimatum - it's tame and predictable stuff. Yet posters are saying how he makes their skin crawl, and is repulsive and slimy and basically insinuating that he is here to deliberately drag the club down.  Get a grip people!

I'm not happy with the situation but you can be unhappy without thinking it's all a big conspiracy to "ruin the club".

Thats a really good post, and I admire your ability to stay level headed when so many of us are panicking.

I guess at the end of the day, none of us really know what might be going on behind the scenes and what the conduct of LJ has been like. We hear whispers, but there are so many idiots claiming to be "ITK" that its hard to know whats true. 

But I want to make it clear that I've based my opinion on LJs character on evidence, and I'm not simply trying to join an angry mob for the sake of it.

If you watch his interviews, Johnson likes to play the blame game. He has made comments about selecting players he can "trust" which strongly suggests a high level of animosity with certain players. We've seen players disappear for weeks at a time without much explanation, we've seen the performances of very capable players deteriorate the longer they play under LJ and we now know that he sought to remove Pemberton which strikes me as an attempt to deflect blame.

That to me paints a very clear picture of a man who is unpleasant, disliked and sneaky as well as clueless at his job.

[JHAGa]

He wanted to change his coaching set-up in the summer, is that really so bad? It was the board that came to him and said to get rid of Pemberton this month (at least according to MA's interview). Maybe the change will do good in just having a new face around the camp, not that I have anything against Pembo at all. Ultimately, the manager should be able to choose his own support staff.

[Leveller]

53 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

If Johnson really wanted to keep Kodjia he would have played him as his main striker. Instead he played him as a right winger. I clearly remember the home game v Newcastle, I was sat pitchside in the Dolman. Kodjia spent the whole of the second half 5-10 yards from me looking totally bemused. Another tactical master stroke from LJ, play your 20 goal striker in a position he least effective. That would have been the day Kodjia knew his future lay elsewhere. 

I think Kodjia was most effective coming in from wide. It seems to be how Villa are often playing him too.

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

I think Kodjia was most effective coming in from wide. It seems to be how Villa are often playing him too.

That's a fair point, but he was hogging the touchline for us at the start of this season!, it wasn't a case of being able to get the ball in the channels. That's where he was so effective for us the previous season.

[Redmycolour]

21 hours ago, JHAGa said:

I completely understand frustration for what's happened this season but I still like Lee and don't understand the need for personal abuse which is rife on here and social media. He's been unlucky at times but is, of course, deserving of criticism for where we currently find ourselves.

 

I also understand frustrations at what happened with Pemberton and I particularly am annoyed with the statement the club put out that showed him no respect, but ultimately LJ should be able to decide his own coaching set-up. It's the board that wanted to part ways with Pemberton earlier than planned, it's the board that have stuck with Lee, it's the board that have made it difficult for numerous managers over the years. Yes, people can ask why are they showing so much loyalty to Lee, especially when compared to other managers like Cotts, but that's the board's fault not LJ. All my grievances over this season are with the board.

 

I followed Lee as a manager at Oldham/Barnsley. I think at Oldham particularly he did a very good job with limited resources. I understand why we went for him with his links to the club, although I, like many, knew it'd be a gamble at the time. I understand why SL wants to stick with him and try and break the pattern of bringing in a new manager every year. Again, I'm frustrated he didn't do the same with Cotts who genuinely deserved backing but I do get what he's trying to do. Maybe it's romanticism due to his surname but on paper, he's a young highly-rated coach who knows and admires the club and buys into what SL and the board want (in sense, a yes man, I don't think it's amiss to state that).

 

It's been a terrible 4 months but he came in and did a good job before that. He cares about the club and hasn't deliberately got us in this position, he's lost his best player at the end of August without a replacement, he/the team have genuinely been unlucky in numerous games with ref decisions and when it comes to LJ, players failing to take clear-cut chances or giving away unnecessary penalties. His inexperience over the course of recent months has definitely been evident and nobody could argue if he had been sacked but he's clearly the board's man and they have made a massive gamble in remaining loyal to him. If he's out of his depth, the board are to blame for not getting rid, Lee isn't not trying and has good intentions. I'd love nothing more than us to stay up after the next ten games and for him to lead us to a successful season next year.

Is this you Lee Johnson