BCFC Grim Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 39 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: Things behind the scenes cannot be as bad as we all think they are Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barky redwood Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I suppose your enthusiasm for sacking Johnson depends on whether you actually sit at home every Saturday afternoon or whether you spend £25 or so watching that rubbish. If I was regularly shelling out that kind of dosh to watch that tosh I'd also be foaming at the mouth by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizzle Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Sorry but IMHO Johnson is tactically inept, the buck stops there I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southstandoriginal Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Whilst the op makes a fair point about sticking by a promising young coach and not sacking at the first sign of trouble, I feel his point is a theoretical one and is not relevant to us. LJ has proved that he hasn't the nous to lead a championship squad and we are in deep trouble due to our niceness. As others have said, it may be too late now and we shall just have to make the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Don Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Theee games unbeaten now, a contract extension shouldn't be too far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkInChance Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Amazing... So he and the current "regime" are not responsible for the squad of players that we now have? Of course it could all be Des Taylor's fault? So these players that we have signed in the last 12 months are they not a "massive flop"? The players have flopped with Johnson what will make that change with this lot or new players? So what is the answer as I don't see one in that post? Sticking with LJ hoping that players "come around" is not the answer ffs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 58 minutes ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. I admire your support for LJ and SL. However, a fair analogy of our position as fans is that Lee is driving a bus packed with City supporters towards the edge of a cliff, when he suddenly slams on the brakes with the vehicle hanging precariously over the precipice. There's only one exit at the front, guarded by Conductor Lansdown. He yells at the fans, "Does anyone want to get off? We're all in this together and there's nothing you can do!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, city2015 said: I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. I think you'll find Johnson has a pretty hefty paycheck too. He needs to start earning his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Southstandoriginal said: Whilst the op makes a fair point about sticking by a promising young coach and not sacking at the first sign of trouble, I feel his point is a theoretical one and is not relevant to us. LJ has proved that he hasn't the nous to lead a championship squad and we are in deep trouble due to our niceness. As others have said, it may be too late now and we shall just have to make the most of it. Your post stopped making any sense after "a promising young coach", because there has been absolutely nil, zero, nada, zilch indication of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Romanovich Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Southstandoriginal said: Whilst the op makes a fair point about sticking by a promising young coach and not sacking at the first sign of trouble, I feel his point is a theoretical one and is not relevant to us. LJ has proved that he hasn't the nous to lead a championship squad and we are in deep trouble due to our niceness. As others have said, it may be too late now and we shall just have to make the most of it. Agree completely LJ has done nothing to suggest he is a promising young coach to me it's all a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes and the board have failed to realise that despite all the waffle he has not actually come in and done what he is paid to do . Win football matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspokenman Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, Twizzle said: Sorry but IMHO Johnson is tactically inept, the buck stops there I'm afraid. 43 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said: Thanks for being the sacrificial lamb this week 17 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said: How does the goat feel about it? Bucks ? Goats ? Lambs ? My god.....just what is this website ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman Block B Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, The_Don said: Theee games unbeaten now, a contract extension shouldn't be too far away. Talking saturday to many fans, they all agree LJ is in ot for the long run even if we go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, ricardob59 said: I'm in the LJ out camp, but also feel that it's possibly too late now.. Change should have been made when we were in free fall.. We have beaten the two teams below us 1-0 & stuttered to a few half decent performances.. The 'big up' new manager effect was needed a while back.. I don't believe SL should have allowed a manager to learn his trade at our club.. But it's a typical cosy appointment that we either will regret in the coming months or survive by skin of teeth.. Either way SL should have acted many games away.. But whatever outcome in May LJ has to go or move sideways to allow experience to build.. LJ needs to learn from more experienced Manager.. Like you say he shouldn't be allowed to learn his trade here. We all hope we stay up and if we do he'll carry on as he is. Can anyone seriously see him progressing next season ? There is no evidence to say we wouldn't still be in the same mess next season with him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, JHAGa said: I admire SL's loyalty and willingness to back a long-term manager. He should have done it with Cotts but LJ clearly has a better relationship (for the time being) with the board. It is a massive gamble and criticism has been warranted for how the season has panned out. We have made more positive strides in recent weeks, I hope SL's gamble of remaining loyal is paid off and we can go again next season. I'm tired of bringing in a new manager every 12 months only for the same cycle to repeat itself on and on and on. Fingers crossed we stay up. And that is my problem here. We rip it up, bring a new guy in, back him, **** up, rip it up, bring a new guy in.....you get where I'm headed with this Had a slight disagreement with a pair of pricks on Saturday night about this (you know who you are!), first job, we stay up. Then we sort the mess out I'm firmly in the LJ out camp, but not at the risk of playing in Division 3 again any time soon. As (most) others have said, the change should've come 6 weeks ago, changing now really would be the worst decision. Give LJ a £1m bonus for keeping us up, for all I care, but keep us up he must. The day after, sack him, I really don't ******* care. Just stay up As I said last week, **** Chesterfield, Port Vale, Walsall, Shrewsbury and especially the Blue Few and Swindon. I've enjoyed not playing them. I couldn't believe people were moaning that we'd won on Saturday as it meant LJ wasn't going to get sacked. It ain't happening, there's nothing we can do about it, except support the lads One thing that was noticeable for me was the reaction of the players to the late goal, that didn't look like a group of lads that don't want to play for their gaffer, which is good to see It is what it is, folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, Woodsy said: first job, we stay up. Then we sort the mess out Isn't that what Johnson was brought in to do? He's created an even bigger mess than that he was sent in to clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I gave up after the first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said: Like you say he shouldn't be allowed to learn his trade here. We all hope we stay up and if we do he'll carry on as he is. 1. Can anyone seriously see him progressing next season ? 2. There is no evidence to say we wouldn't still be in the same mess next season with him here. Why not? If he keeps us up despite some on here predicting we are certain to go down, then keeping us up is a result and he carries on. And there is no evidence that says that we will be in a mess People try to judge the future on the assumption that things won't change. E.g. Leicester were judged at the beginning of last season to be going down. The reality, they won the Premiership. And before some muppet says 'you think we're going to do a Leicester...', no I don't, it's a demonstration of the stupidity of the reasoning by some of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said: Isn't that what Johnson was brought in to do? He's created an even bigger mess than that he was sent in to clear. Absolutely, I'm not arguing that. This season has been a absolute shambles, but to change it all again right now....I'm not having that Edit - I hate the way 'cluster ****' is edited on here! And now it looks like I've put 'a' instead of 'an'....the grammar police are going to be all over me, and it wasn't my fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 For me, it's less wanting to stick with LJ, and more that I don't trust the board to hire a manager correctly. Should we survive, I think the best outcome is not to sack LJ, but to give him a new contract. Same pay, same length, but changing his job role to manager. Give him a set budget, and tell him that he's on his last transfer window. If he can't keep us near the top half of the table by Christmas, he's gone. The reason we're in the shit is because the club have gone back to the same shit that got us relegated in the first place - hiring head coaches and trying to micro-manage the club. It's very telling that the only manager outside of GJ to be given the freedom to manage (Cotterill) was successful with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, Woodsy said: Absolutely, I'm not arguing that. This season has been a absolute shambles, but to change it all again right now....I'm not having that Edit - I hate the way 'cluster ****' is edited on here! And now it looks like I've put 'a' instead of 'an'....the grammar police are going to be all over me, and it wasn't my fault! Woodsy out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_s Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Agree with your sentiment entirely but I've seen nothing to suggest that LJ is the man to take us forward and was employed as a result people liking to employ people they already know as opposed to his ability. I've nothing against LJ at all and really hope he'll succeed but it's highly doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 A problem I see as a Gashead is amongst the calls for unity etc from your Ashton and Steve Lansdown and talks of longe term etc, they haven't said the one thing that actually matters that I am aware of. They have hinted at it but not spelt it out. How hard is it for them to say "LJ will be the manger next season whatever division we are in" At least you all know where you stand there. I think most of you have accepted he isn't going anywhere, but whilst it is 'open' you still wait in hope/expectation for him to be sacked now or in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said: People try to judge the future on the assumption that things won't change. E.g. Leicester were judged at the beginning of last season to be going down. The reality, they won the Premiership. And before some muppet says 'you think we're going to do a Leicester...', no I don't, it's a demonstration of the stupidity of the reasoning by some of this board. Most judgements about future events are based on what's happening now and in the past. They have to be as that is the only solid evidence we can base things on. There is little evidence at the moment that a massive up turn in form is on its way however the never ending run of defeats does seem to have stopped. As for Leicester, if you will recall, their previous season before their championship, they were showing that sort of form over the last 3 or 4 months. A number of pundits stated that if they played like that for the whole season they were on league winning form. What i'm saying is, Leicester's form last season didn't just come out of nowhere. As for City, I've not seen that much evidence of a player power revolution. We all suspect that there have been difficulties with Tomlin but we don't no for sure. A good manager should listen to his players. He doesn't have to always do what they want but ignore their opinions at your peril. It's not called a team sport without reason. At the end of the day the buck has to stop with the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 hours ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Bet Huddersfield are gutted they ain't got a british manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, Hello said: A problem I see as a Gashead is amongst the calls for unity etc from your Ashton and Steve Lansdown and talks of longe term etc, they haven't said the one thing that actually matters that I am aware of. They have hinted at it but not spelt it out. How hard is it for them to say "LJ will be the manger next season whatever division we are in" At least you all know where you stand there. I think most of you have accepted he isn't going anywhere, but whilst it is 'open' you still wait in hope/expectation for him to be sacked now or in the summer Because they know if they do say that we'll lose thousands of season ticket holders, especially if we're in league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwickshire Red Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I don't care if the manager is old, non-British and has 3 legs provided he knows what he's doing and is effective in pushing this club forwards. Moving away from appointing and sacking every 12 months is all fine and good provided a good selection is made in the first place, based on better due diligence than has been shown to date. We're in this position because the selections were mostly poor by SL (barring SC who was KDs choice and GJ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said: Woodsy out You're not the first City fan to say that in the last few days But, my fans were terrific again today. Looking forward to Huddersfield, we go again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Abraham Romanovich said: Agree completely LJ has done nothing to suggest he is a promising young coach to me it's all a bit like the Emperor's New Clothes and the board have failed to realise that despite all the waffle he has not actually come in and done what he is paid to do . Win football matches He's broken most of his promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Warwickshire Red said: Moving away from appointing and sacking every 12 months is all fine and good provided a good selection is made in the first place, based on better due diligence than has been shown to date. We're in this position because the selections were mostly poor by SL (barring SC who was KDs choice and GJ) Bang on. The 'project' is great, I'm fully supportive but you have to appoint the correct people. This happens at our club rarely, hence the regular hire and fire routine. If we stay up LJ will be here next season and I believe he'll be sacked in october, around about the international break, because he's shown nothing to suggest he's got what it takes. I should also add I have nothing against the bloke personally, I just want the club to progress and not regress for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 The problem doesn't go away:- Powerless Board and Chair Egotistical owner Scattergun and corporate approach of Bristol Sport Appointment of yes men until they rebel and are sacked. Should have learnt the lesson with SC - ok he became petulant and frankly childish but if he had been supported and managed properly by The Board I very much doubt we would be where we are today LJ is probably here until the league we are in fails to justify his salary (4th division or conference or conference south !?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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