Reason to admire Lee Johnson and Steve Lansdown

[AppyDAZE]

22 minutes ago, Woodsy said:

You're not the first City fan to say that in the last few days

But, my fans were terrific again today. Looking forward to Huddersfield, we go again

They weren't booing you, they were booing your posts?

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

Most judgements about future events are based on what's happening now and in the past. They have to be as that is the only solid evidence we can base things on. 

There is little evidence at the moment that a massive up turn in form is on its way however the never ending run of defeats does seem to have stopped.

As for Leicester, if you will recall, their previous season before their championship, they were showing that sort of form over the last 3 or 4 months. A number of pundits stated that if they played like that for the whole season they were on league winning form. What i'm saying is, Leicester's form last season didn't just come out of nowhere.

As for City, I've not seen that much evidence of a player power revolution. We all suspect that there have been difficulties with Tomlin but we don't no for sure.

A good manager should listen to his players. He doesn't have to always do what they want but ignore their opinions at your peril. It's not called a team sport without reason.

At the end of the day the buck has to stop with the manager.

The evidence being used is subjective - it's a case of pick and mix. If people choose only to look at form i.e. black and white lose or win, things don't look good. If people start to introduce other evidence e.g. margins, things start to look better. Getting that balance right just isn't possible on this board no matter which side you sit on the LJ argument.

On top of this, there is the emotional bias that exists with LJ. Some just didn't want him here and the poor form helps them to creep out of the shadows and be openly critical of LJ (this is an example and does not apply to all LJ out fans). In the same breath, if he manages to turn things around, the 'LJ Out' crew will skulk back to the shadows and the 'LJ rah rah crew' will probably emerge. There is a lot of emotive clap trap on this forum.

With regards to Leicester, I was referring to bookies having Leicester as down. 2016, the bookies got a number of predictions wrong.

You are right in certain respects about players; the relationship that should exist and ultimately it's the manager's call. What you did miss was the part the owner plays in this, he's the one who does the sacking. In this case, because SL has refused to succumb to fan power, some on this board have LJ down as the secret love child of SL (because some people take everything seriously, I have to say I'm being facetious here) or a secret cabal exists between the Lansdown/Johnson/Ashton/Kermit the frog. Some of shit that's been written in the past months would normally be attributed to gash infiltrators and would have been dismissed as such e.g. 'my mate, who works at the golf club says', 'he'll be gone tomorrow' (x 3 or 4 I believe), 'sack SL/MA/etc.', etc., however, it's been lapped up as the truth.

The sheer 'vitriol' by some of the 'LJ out' crew has tainted the 'LJ out' movement - it has effectively put peoples backs up and the support that might have been there (in support of getting rid of LJ) has gone to be replaced by one of support of LJ. If ever there was anyone to blame in this LJ out debacle, I would suggest that looking closer to home would be the first place to start.

[Ashtonwurzel]

1 hour ago, Woodsy said:

One thing that was noticeable for me was the reaction of the players to the late goal, that didn't look like a group of lads that don't want to play for their gaffer, which is good to see

Agree, which is strange considering the "well informed" sources telling us that it is chaos and cliques on the training ground.

Now perhaps it has all gone "lord of the flies" at Failand ( I myself have thought so on occasion) but for the players to still look so committed and excited when we do actually score a goal gives me hope that all is not lost.

[Roger Red Hat]

1 minute ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Agree, which is strange considering the "well informed" sources telling us that it is chaos and cliques on the training ground.

Now perhaps it has all gone "lord of the flies" at Failand ( I myself have thought so on occasion) but for the players to still look so committed and excited when we do actually score a goal gives me hope that all is not lost at least.

Of course, the players could've been happy just to win for once, for the team/themselves, in spite of LJ, and not because of LJ.

[Ashtonwurzel]

3 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Of course, the players could've been happy just to win for once, for the team/themselves, in spite of LJ, and not because of LJ.

That is also very possible but I would rather go with my theory thank you.

[Yozzarian]

In principle we can all support and admire the club's willingness to back Johnson and indeed it is now quite possibly too late to change things this season. However, the following points need to be noted/addressed when considering the last 2 years, regardless of whether you are Johnson in or out.

- Why was the relationship between Cotterill, SL & the board allowed to disintegrate? Why was he not adequately backed in his first Summer window? I understand the perceived notion that he was not - in the type of manager he was - the natural fit for the Bristol Sport model but..... he was a huge success, delivering one of the best seasons in our history and Lansdown's business brain should have identified the opportunity with Cotts at the helm.  Somehow, deals fell through, fans were allowed to get nervous on social media and we kicked off the season with a clearly upset manager.  Few came out of the Summer with much credit to my mind as I feel the confidence of the existing players would have taken a hit with all the negativity.  We simply should have been offering the type of wages that would have secured an Andre Gray and maybe one or two more of his standard; these would have complimented a strong squad and we might not now have found ourselves losing so many of them.

- In judging Johnson and the decision of Lansdown to keep him during this season one of the many things that need to be noted is the quality of football and whether it has entertained.  By and large the answer to this is that it has been poor and not fun to watch.  Whether Lee turns it around, whether the team have played for him and whether we stay up.....the product that we have bought for a lot of money as 'customers' has been of poor standard.  You can argue that it is not just about being in the Championship but also how fun games are.  No one at the club seems to have been at all bothered by this and in fact Johnson often seems to be watching a completely different performance to the rest of us.

- There has been an almost willful disregard for fan concerns and very little attempt to address these adequately through media, both traditional and new (Twittter/Facebook etc).  Whether the club feels it shouldn't have to pander to fans I am not sure. Certainly the abusive criticism can be fairly ignored but what about the reams of constructive, well-written concerns shared here and elsewhere? I don't feel well served by the club and instead feel as though the attitude has been simply to say 'Tough. He's staying. That's the end of it.' As the most important element of this club we deserve to be consulted and have a representative at board level and honestly, i could have dampened down so much of the furore that has gripped the club of late if in charge of media relations.

- Should we stay up I wonder if many will use it to attack those who are Johnson Out, using it as proof that we were wrong and the club was right.  In addition to my second point re the quality of football I would say that to have flirted with relegation as we have was unforgivable.  Unforgivable considering the quality of team we have and the finances at our disposal.  I would argue that the opinion of fans is far more important than it appears to be in considering whether to sack a manager, regardless of the strength of relationship between him and the club.  To willfully damage - perhaps long term - levels of trust with fans in irresponsible and we have been calling for his head for some time now.  Many of us have not wanted him to fail and have not enjoyed doing so but this is where we find ourselves.  

- The nature of the game has changed even in the time since 2008.  While steady progression that has financial security at it's core is wise to an extent and certainly admirable I would argue that it simply won't get you anywhere in this day and age.  To survive and push into the top 6 in this Championship now requires far more investment in players and particularly their wages than we are prepared to pay.  Fair enough when your owner is not a billionaire but SL to his huge credit has shown great ambition in all other aspects of the club and as long as he has faith in his own model he need not fear the mistakes of the past (David James et al).

 

 

To sum up I hope we stay up, I appreciate having SL at our club and I will support the team during each game.  My relationship with the club has been damaged and they have work to do to repair the wounds.  I do not believe in Johnson's approach to team/game management and do not believe he is good enough at this level. He may well be one day but I don't want him to learn the job while at our club. We cannot afford relegation and to go down will be a huge failure for this club with the team it has as it is and it should not be seen as 'part of the game' in this instance.  If we stay up and Johnson remains I will renew my SC. If we go down and the club replace him I will do the same.  If we go down however and he stays I will be taking out a membership instead in protest.  It has got to the point where I have become so angry at how the club has managed this season that I cannot let things pass without this self-defeating gesture (not being able to sit with fellow SC-holding friends).  

The 'Reasons to admire Johnson & Lansdown' are therefore non-existent and weakened respectively.

[RumRed]

9 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Agree, which is strange considering the "well informed" sources telling us that it is chaos and cliques on the training ground.

Now perhaps it has all gone "lord of the flies" at Failand ( I myself have thought so on occasion) but for the players to still look so committed and excited when we do actually score a goal gives me hope that all is not lost.

Who's playing the part of the conch?

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

Who's playing the part of the conch?

And who is Piggy?

[RumRed]

Just now, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

And who is Piggy?

I was going to add that, let's hope it's LJ!

Metaphorically of course! 

[Ashtonwurzel]

3 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

And who is Piggy?

Pemberton got the Piggy treatment.

[foghornred]

I love the guy on the radio tonight who said that he wanted Johnson out but said that no new manager could keep us up !

Johnson has the backing of the team and it looks like his luck has changed with the awarding of a corner on Saturday.

Lets just get behind the team for the final few games and see where we end up,then you can give your negative view but please SUPPORT until then. 

[City fan 1982]

Admirable if it was a experienced boss going through a tough time, however a rookie boss , who's spent millions, wasted 2 mill on engval , signs 16 players himself, yet only 3 are good enough for the squad ,and he wants 3 transfer windows ? Really.   You trust his judgment?  Contestant tinkering of the team, a player is motm in a game , next game , benched or out of the picture altogether. 3 wins from 25 , even the football we are playing looks like a poor league 1  level , ok he struck lucky with Tammy , without his goals we would be below Rotherham!  Really struggling to justify a season ticket again next year , he is a poor coach , I bet you any money if he's here next year we'll be having the same debate.    Very much Johnson out. 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

The problem doesn't go away:-

Powerless Board and Chair

Egotistical owner

Scattergun and corporate approach of Bristol Sport

Appointment of yes men until they rebel and are sacked. Should have learnt the lesson with SC - ok he became petulant and frankly childish but if he had been supported and managed properly by The Board I very much doubt we would be where we are today

LJ is probably here until the league we are in fails to justify his salary (4th division or conference or conference south !?)

Such a shame.   I'd totally forgotten about Ben Gladwin.

[Roger Red Hat]

40 minutes ago, foghornred said:

I love the guy on the radio tonight who said that he wanted Johnson out but said that no new manager could keep us up !

Johnson has the backing of the team and it looks like his luck has changed with the awarding of a corner on Saturday.

Lets just get behind the team for the final few games and see where we end up,then you can give your negative view but please SUPPORT until then. 

I think most support the team.

But not the head coach.

[YorkshireSection]

4 hours ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

To be be fair I would have made a change about a month ago but am happy to trust SL. 

Things behind the scenes cannot be as bad as we all think they are

It does still seem that the players are playing for LJ and that does say a lot considering the horrific run of results we have been on. He must being doing something right to keep them all on board at least.

 Hmmmmmmm. No.

Id say there's a good proportion of players that are just stuck there, a lot maybe disillusioned with their situations and some maybe just disgusted with the inept managing and tactics, they are laughing at LJ, he's a joke.

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Yozzarian said:

In principle we can all support and admire the club's willingness to back Johnson and indeed it is now quite possibly too late to change things this season. However, the following points need to be noted/addressed when considering the last 2 years, regardless of whether you are Johnson in or out.

- Why was the relationship between Cotterill, SL & the board allowed to disintegrate? Why was he not adequately backed in his first Summer window? I understand the perceived notion that he was not - in the type of manager he was - the natural fit for the Bristol Sport model but..... he was a huge success, delivering one of the best seasons in our history and Lansdown's business brain should have identified the opportunity with Cotts at the helm.  Somehow, deals fell through, fans were allowed to get nervous on social media and we kicked off the season with a clearly upset manager.  Few came out of the Summer with much credit to my mind as I feel the confidence of the existing players would have taken a hit with all the negativity.  We simply should have been offering the type of wages that would have secured an Andre Gray and maybe one or two more of his standard; these would have complimented a strong squad and we might not now have found ourselves losing so many of them.

- In judging Johnson and the decision of Lansdown to keep him during this season one of the many things that need to be noted is the quality of football and whether it has entertained.  By and large the answer to this is that it has been poor and not fun to watch.  Whether Lee turns it around, whether the team have played for him and whether we stay up.....the product that we have bought for a lot of money as 'customers' has been of poor standard.  You can argue that it is not just about being in the Championship but also how fun games are.  No one at the club seems to have been at all bothered by this and in fact Johnson often seems to be watching a completely different performance to the rest of us.

- There has been an almost willful disregard for fan concerns and very little attempt to address these adequately through media, both traditional and new (Twittter/Facebook etc).  Whether the club feels it shouldn't have to pander to fans I am not sure. Certainly the abusive criticism can be fairly ignored but what about the reams of constructive, well-written concerns shared here and elsewhere? I don't feel well served by the club and instead feel as though the attitude has been simply to say 'Tough. He's staying. That's the end of it.' As the most important element of this club we deserve to be consulted and have a representative at board level and honestly, i could have dampened down so much of the furore that has gripped the club of late if in charge of media relations.

- Should we stay up I wonder if many will use it to attack those who are Johnson Out, using it as proof that we were wrong and the club was right.  In addition to my second point re the quality of football I would say that to have flirted with relegation as we have was unforgivable.  Unforgivable considering the quality of team we have and the finances at our disposal.  I would argue that the opinion of fans is far more important than it appears to be in considering whether to sack a manager, regardless of the strength of relationship between him and the club.  To willfully damage - perhaps long term - levels of trust with fans in irresponsible and we have been calling for his head for some time now.  Many of us have not wanted him to fail and have not enjoyed doing so but this is where we find ourselves.  

- The nature of the game has changed even in the time since 2008.  While steady progression that has financial security at it's core is wise to an extent and certainly admirable I would argue that it simply won't get you anywhere in this day and age.  To survive and push into the top 6 in this Championship now requires far more investment in players and particularly their wages than we are prepared to pay.  Fair enough when your owner is not a billionaire but SL to his huge credit has shown great ambition in all other aspects of the club and as long as he has faith in his own model he need not fear the mistakes of the past (David James et al).

 

 

To sum up I hope we stay up, I appreciate having SL at our club and I will support the team during each game.  My relationship with the club has been damaged and they have work to do to repair the wounds.  I do not believe in Johnson's approach to team/game management and do not believe he is good enough at this level. He may well be one day but I don't want him to learn the job while at our club. We cannot afford relegation and to go down will be a huge failure for this club with the team it has as it is and it should not be seen as 'part of the game' in this instance.  If we stay up and Johnson remains I will renew my SC. If we go down and the club replace him I will do the same.  If we go down however and he stays I will be taking out a membership instead in protest.  It has got to the point where I have become so angry at how the club has managed this season that I cannot let things pass without this self-defeating gesture (not being able to sit with fellow SC-holding friends).  

The 'Reasons to admire Johnson & Lansdown' are therefore non-existent and weakened respectively.

Nailed it.

If this post had been a topic starter, it would have been one of the most liked OTIB has ever seen.

 

[YorkshireSection]

1 hour ago, foghornred said:

I love the guy on the radio tonight who said that he wanted Johnson out but said that no new manager could keep us up !

Johnson has the backing of the team and it looks like his luck has changed with the awarding of a corner on Saturday.

Lets just get behind the team for the final few games and see where we end up,then you can give your negative view but please SUPPORT until then. 

He really doesn't have the backing of the team, however the team collectively and individually would be mad to want a relegation on their CV, however when prospective employers look at signing a player they will no doubt take into consideration that Coco the Clown was managing them during their momentary spell of failure.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, Yozzarian said:

In principle we can all support and admire the club's willingness to back Johnson and indeed it is now quite possibly too late to change things this season. However, the following points need to be noted/addressed when considering the last 2 years, regardless of whether you are Johnson in or out.

- Why was the relationship between Cotterill, SL & the board allowed to disintegrate? Why was he not adequately backed in his first Summer window? I understand the perceived notion that he was not - in the type of manager he was - the natural fit for the Bristol Sport model but..... he was a huge success, delivering one of the best seasons in our history and Lansdown's business brain should have identified the opportunity with Cotts at the helm.  Somehow, deals fell through, fans were allowed to get nervous on social media and we kicked off the season with a clearly upset manager.  Few came out of the Summer with much credit to my mind as I feel the confidence of the existing players would have taken a hit with all the negativity.  We simply should have been offering the type of wages that would have secured an Andre Gray and maybe one or two more of his standard; these would have complimented a strong squad and we might not now have found ourselves losing so many of them.

- In judging Johnson and the decision of Lansdown to keep him during this season one of the many things that need to be noted is the quality of football and whether it has entertained.  By and large the answer to this is that it has been poor and not fun to watch.  Whether Lee turns it around, whether the team have played for him and whether we stay up.....the product that we have bought for a lot of money as 'customers' has been of poor standard.  You can argue that it is not just about being in the Championship but also how fun games are.  No one at the club seems to have been at all bothered by this and in fact Johnson often seems to be watching a completely different performance to the rest of us.

- There has been an almost willful disregard for fan concerns and very little attempt to address these adequately through media, both traditional and new (Twittter/Facebook etc).  Whether the club feels it shouldn't have to pander to fans I am not sure. Certainly the abusive criticism can be fairly ignored but what about the reams of constructive, well-written concerns shared here and elsewhere? I don't feel well served by the club and instead feel as though the attitude has been simply to say 'Tough. He's staying. That's the end of it.' As the most important element of this club we deserve to be consulted and have a representative at board level and honestly, i could have dampened down so much of the furore that has gripped the club of late if in charge of media relations.

- Should we stay up I wonder if many will use it to attack those who are Johnson Out, using it as proof that we were wrong and the club was right.  In addition to my second point re the quality of football I would say that to have flirted with relegation as we have was unforgivable.  Unforgivable considering the quality of team we have and the finances at our disposal.  I would argue that the opinion of fans is far more important than it appears to be in considering whether to sack a manager, regardless of the strength of relationship between him and the club.  To willfully damage - perhaps long term - levels of trust with fans in irresponsible and we have been calling for his head for some time now.  Many of us have not wanted him to fail and have not enjoyed doing so but this is where we find ourselves.  

- The nature of the game has changed even in the time since 2008.  While steady progression that has financial security at it's core is wise to an extent and certainly admirable I would argue that it simply won't get you anywhere in this day and age.  To survive and push into the top 6 in this Championship now requires far more investment in players and particularly their wages than we are prepared to pay.  Fair enough when your owner is not a billionaire but SL to his huge credit has shown great ambition in all other aspects of the club and as long as he has faith in his own model he need not fear the mistakes of the past (David James et al).

 

 

To sum up I hope we stay up, I appreciate having SL at our club and I will support the team during each game.  My relationship with the club has been damaged and they have work to do to repair the wounds.  I do not believe in Johnson's approach to team/game management and do not believe he is good enough at this level. He may well be one day but I don't want him to learn the job while at our club. We cannot afford relegation and to go down will be a huge failure for this club with the team it has as it is and it should not be seen as 'part of the game' in this instance.  If we stay up and Johnson remains I will renew my SC. If we go down and the club replace him I will do the same.  If we go down however and he stays I will be taking out a membership instead in protest.  It has got to the point where I have become so angry at how the club has managed this season that I cannot let things pass without this self-defeating gesture (not being able to sit with fellow SC-holding friends).  

The 'Reasons to admire Johnson & Lansdown' are therefore non-existent and weakened respectively.

I can't really add anything…

[054123]

I admire Steve Lansdown for spending millions on the stadium, which I think belongs to the club?

[Ivorguy]

3 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I admire Steve Lansdown for spending millions on the stadium, which I think belongs to the club?

Oh dear!

[054123]

32 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Oh dear!

I was being genuine. 

I do appreciate what he's spent but thought I would get shouted down as legally it didn't belong to the club. 

To be honest I don't really know how it all works. 

[Yozzarian]

51 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Nailed it.

If this post had been a topic starter, it would have been one of the most liked OTIB has ever seen.

 

Cheers man. Appreciate that. 

[The_Don]

4 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Talking saturday to many fans, they all agree LJ is in ot for the long run even if we go down.

Yep, that was the general consensus from the people I spoke to at Wigan too.

[BigAl&Toby]

5 hours ago, city2015 said:

While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong.

With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned.

Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. 

I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave.

I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame.

I'm with you.

I have reservations about Lansdown and his motives - all I care about is BCFC, not Bristol Sport - but I'm against the sack 'em and get someone new in cycle.

Where's that got us in the past? This ******* mess.

Give Little Lee a chance I say

[milo1111]

21 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I'm with you.

I have reservations about Lansdown and his motives - all I care about is BCFC, not Bristol Sport - but I'm against the sack 'em and get someone new in cycle.

Where's that got us in the past? This ******* mess.

Give Little Lee a chance I say

I dont think anyone could argue that he wasnt given a fair chance even if sacked tonight 

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, The Journalist said:

Come on then, who'll the first comedy genius to quip "nice post, Lee"?

That joke is really beginning to get on my goat now.

It's already been done - see a few posts above. It bugs me too, it's just not funny, in any way whatsoever....

[Xiled]

3 hours ago, Yozzarian said:

....

- The nature of the game has changed even in the time since 2008.  While steady progression that has financial security at it's core is wise to an extent and certainly admirable I would argue that it simply won't get you anywhere in this day and age.  To survive and push into the top 6 in this Championship now requires far more investment in players and particularly their wages than we are prepared to pay.  Fair enough when your owner is not a billionaire but SL to his huge credit has shown great ambition in all other aspects of the club and as long as he has faith in his own model he need not fear the mistakes of the past (David James et al).

.....

This is the only part of your excellent post that I would take small issue with.  In 2017, it's possible to be profitable or loss-making in any division from the Premier League down to League 2.  Clubs over-commit finances to chase promotion and it doesn't always pay-off.  Equally teams like Southampton, Bournemouth, Burnley, Brentford, Preston and Barnsley have all done well enough operating within sensible financial constraints.  I fear that this season we have already started to repeat mistakes of the past.  I'm sure since we signed Tomlin last summer that the whole notion of a maximum player wage has been quietly dropped.  Probably sustainable if we stay in the Championship but dangerous if we get relegated.  In League 1 the panic button gets pressed and we're back to austerity and 3 pillars territory.....

I think we have a squad of mostly decent players.  I don't think LJ knows how to assemble a winning team from them but I have hopes that his successor will know how to play a settled group in a comprehensible formation.  With hindsight, I wish we had only been able to sign about 4 good players this season.  That would have limited LJ's meddling and we might have been more successful.

I'm naturally pessimistic by nature but my current fear is that we will huff and puff our way through the remaining games and get relegated on the last day of the season.  That would be a very painful finale.

[Yozzarian]

47 minutes ago, Xiled said:

This is the only part of your excellent post that I would take small issue with.  In 2017, it's possible to be profitable or loss-making in any division from the Premier League down to League 2.  Clubs over-commit finances to chase promotion and it doesn't always pay-off.  Equally teams like Southampton, Bournemouth, Burnley, Brentford, Preston and Barnsley have all done well enough operating within sensible financial constraints.  I fear that this season we have already started to repeat mistakes of the past.  I'm sure since we signed Tomlin last summer that the whole notion of a maximum player wage has been quietly dropped.  Probably sustainable if we stay in the Championship but dangerous if we get relegated.  In League 1 the panic button gets pressed and we're back to austerity and 3 pillars territory.....

I think we have a squad of mostly decent players.  I don't think LJ knows how to assemble a winning team from them but I have hopes that his successor will know how to play a settled group in a comprehensible formation.  With hindsight, I wish we had only been able to sign about 4 good players this season.  That would have limited LJ's meddling and we might have been more successful.

I'm naturally pessimistic by nature but my current fear is that we will huff and puff our way through the remaining games and get relegated on the last day of the season.  That would be a very painful finale.

This is definitely a fair argument and in principle I struggle to disagree. I guess my frustration is that it seems a balancing act I think we didn't get quite right this season. One or two well picked players such as Gray would have made a world of difference and it doesn't mean we would suddenly have to have 11 such players overnight. The rewards for getting it right seem so great and our resources similarly strong that to risk going too carefully threatens all. Of course, the right manager this year would have gotten a lot more out of this group of players meaning that perhaps the careful approach would be fine. I think the manager is my biggest issue. That and the support for him in the face of facts.

[redandy1]

7 hours ago, city2015 said:

While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong.

With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned.

Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. 

I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave.

I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame.

What  hope have we got when Johnson does such an abysmal job and you read posts like this. It is beyond belief.

[Red Rag]

its just to late in the day to sack LJ. I am in hope that we stay up and LJ has learnt a massive lesson this season, not to be repeated next year. In reality i could not give a flying  one who is manager/coach etc. Results count for me.