20Man / Mark Ashton (Merged)

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

"If SL had appointed Warnock or other manager was some nouse and experience of the Championship, it's much less likely we'd be in this position." 

Oh yes, I remember the fans clamouring for Warnock's appointment last year when we were in trouble!!  Funny how a bit of hindsight is useful when it comes to posting a meaningless soundbite.  You might suggest that had we stuck with Pulis we'd be in a better position than we are now, but I don't hear many people arguing that one.  Hang on though, didn't LJ keep us up last year?

Football is what it is, it turns on the smallest things.  Had Tomlin not missed two crucial penalties this season, and had Matty Taylor not missed an open goal against Derby, then we wouldn't be in the position we are in now.

 

That Sheff Wed one especially, wow that sure turned things. We would have been 3-1 up and vs 10 men= game over! Those examples you listed, you are right, could easily have 7 more points right now and be lower midtable, 15th, 16th something like that- which would be not too bad.

[RumRed]

5 hours ago, BCFC Grim said:

I found myself reading this hearing his voice.

 

Bravo!

At just after 7am, something you'd like to tell us? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

17 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

Simply nonsense. I have run a multi million pound organisation and would never dream of not having proper customer representation on the board along with staff reps as well

Hmmm...No offence but all companies I have worked at...'staff reps', what's that?

The idea is you do what you're told (within reason) and that's that basically. That's some types of the modern workplace. With recruitment agencies to have the bulk of your employees working via staff reps are a waste of time and money in many ways.  

Am happy to say where I work now at least seems to hire people as staff, by no means the worst place to work- but staff reps...how 20th century? If my workplace has a staff rep I have no clue who it may be.

PS- you make periodic references to Victorian Mill owners. While an interesting analogy, it seems to be the modern way.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/207280

Quote

Here are the attitudes and practices that small-business owners should have--and if you don't have them, adopt them today:

• Be a dictator. Your directives must be clear and absolute.
• Tell your employees: "Don't think--obey." You want them to do what you say, not what they think they should do.
• Forget your likability score. It's okay if your employees don't like you, as long as they respect you. Earn it by getting in the trenches with them. You have to let workers know you are in it with them.
• Be a feared general. Command the respect you deserve with clear direction and reward/penalties based on performance.
• Fear is the best motivator. Strict accountability and the fear of losing a job are highly effective employee performance enhancers.
• Penalize poor or negligent performance. Companies spend too much time worrying about incentives and not enough about penalties.
• Fire incompetent employees. And do it sooner rather than later. If you don't, the performers in your business will resent it, and you'll continue to lose money on payroll for someone who contributes only mediocrity to the bottom line.
• Enforce, enforce, enforce. There's no point in managing by the numbers or having a precise operational plan for profits unless you are willing to make sure that everyone follows the plan to the letter.

How many of these points do you disagree with?

[Vincent Vega]

5 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Thank you Mark.

Now Vincent, over to you!!!

 

Fubar. 

[Tin Soldier]

The joke called "Bristol Sport" is a "jack of all trades, master of none approach". Just look at the football and rugby results?

Just does not work, BCFC needs focus, commitment, enthusiasm, drive and the will to make it work. Been a poorly run club for years.

Great stadium, sh#te sport.

No engagement with the fans is a dangerous scenario. Worrying!

Mark Ashton - what a waste of money!

[havanatopia]

16 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

In reality it is his club, but the whole point of a football club is to serve the needs of its fans because they are the main means of generating income.  I think SL fully understands all this - but it is still HIM who writes cheques for £millions to keep all the plates spinning.  Some on here do not support his choice of manager - but he has a great deal of experience and is backing his judgement because he believes that that will be in the best interests of the paying fans.  Maybe, just maybe, he has a valid and highly informed and experienced opinion!

Perhaps he is practicing for the Premiership by ignoring the will of the fans; in the Prem the fans no longer are the primary source of income.

As for his experience of choosing managers, if indeed he is choosing them; the record is rather poor overall i would say. He is far from alone of course and many clubs have significantly worse records.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hmmm...No offence but all companies I have worked at...'staff reps', what's that?

The idea is you do what you're told (within reason) and that's that basically. That's some types of the modern workplace. With recruitment agencies to have the bulk of your employees working via staff reps are a waste of time and money in many ways.  

Am happy to say where I work now at least seems to hire people as staff, by no means the worst place to work- but staff reps...how 20th century? If my workplace has a staff rep I have no clue who it may be.

PS- you make periodic references to Victorian Mill owners. While an interesting analogy, it seems to be the modern way.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/207280

How many of these points do you disagree with?

I'd be out of business, if I treated my employees like that.  If people enjoy their job, like the working conditions and don't think you are a ****, you'll get better work out of them. End of story. If they hate you, hate being at work and are scared to put a foot wrong, they will either leave or make fear-driven mistakes. When we work on a project, everyone knows their role and takes it as a challenge to get their bit done as efficiently and quickly as possible. The "incentive" is personal pride and they know how tough market conditions are - they want the company to succeed.

[Ska Junkie]

17 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

The joke called "Bristol Sport" is a "jack of all trades, master of none approach". Just look at the football and rugby results?

Just does not work, BCFC needs focus, commitment, enthusiasm, drive and the will to make it work. Been a poorly run club for years.

Great stadium, sh#te sport.

No engagement with the fans is a dangerous scenario. Worrying!

Mark Ashton - what a waste of money!

It does beggar the question, why, when Bristol rugby are heading down, do they get proven international signings and a world renowned, successful and excellent new head coach while we, who have better crowds and bring more £££ to the table are stuck with the incompetent numbnuts?

It doesn't ring true for me i must say.

[Bat Fastard]

40 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Perhaps he is practicing for the Premiership by ignoring the will of the fans; in the Prem the fans no longer are the primary source of income.

As for his experience of choosing managers, if indeed he is choosing them; the record is rather poor overall i would say. He is far from alone of course and many clubs have significantly worse records.

He has not just chosen a manager in Lee's case....he is building a manager!  Have a little faith!

[Ska Junkie]

42 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

He has not just chosen a manager in Lee's case....he is building a manager!  Have a little faith!

That will make me feel a lot better BF, when we are struggling in League 1. 

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said:

That will make me a lot better,BF, when we are struggling in League 1.

Well the thing is, he will go on being built - he might end up being 5ft 6ins!

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'd be out of business, if I treated my employees like that.  If people enjoy their job, like the working conditions and don't think you are a ****, you'll get better work out of them. End of story. If they hate you, hate being at work and are scared to put a foot wrong, they will either leave or make fear-driven mistakes. When we work on a project, everyone knows their role and takes it as a challenge to get their bit done as efficiently and quickly as possible. The "incentive" is personal pride and they know how tough market conditions are - they want the company to succeed.

I am not knocking my current employer, no just saying that workplaces these days are generally not terribly democratic (were they ever)?

I do like the job, lots of people say is a good working environment- thinking more my prior jobs in sales based roles, tended to be most of staff employed via agencies so that would surely apply somewhat in those instances. Suffice to say those places I was referring to had a high old turnover of sales staff indeed. I do agree with a fair bit of what you say in principle, but in those prior places- well the fact they used several agencies to have their staff through spoke volumes- right across that specific sector it's the same too!

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am not knocking my current employer, no just saying that workplaces these days are generally not terribly democratic (were they ever)?

I do like the job, lots of people say is a good working environment- thinking more my prior jobs in sales based roles, tended to be most of staff employed via agencies so that would surely apply somewhat in those instances. Suffice to say those places I was referring to had a high old turnover of sales staff indeed. I do agree with a fair bit of what you say in principle, but in those prior places- well the fact they used several agencies to have their staff through spoke volumes- right across that specific sector it's the same too!

I suppose it's sector specific: my staff are high-skilled and we work in a hi-tech industry. I try to make it a relaxed workplace as that is standard in the sort of agency I run. I probably break a golden rule by being personal friends with a few folk there, but when you work in a small team with someone for a long time, it happens. As long as you are acutely aware of their faults and limitations - and we all have those! - it's fine I think.

This is how NOT to do it in my industry: 

 

[steviestevieneville]

48 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

He has not just chosen a manager in Lee's case....he is building a manager!  Have a little faith!

Ah right ok . Welcome to guinea pig FC 

[RumRed]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I suppose it's sector specific: my staff are high-skilled and we work in a hi-tech industry. I try to make it a relaxed workplace as that is standard in the sort of agency I run. I probably break a golden rule by being personal friends with a few folk there, but when you work in a small team with someone for a long time, it happens. As long as you are acutely aware of their faults and limitations - and we all have those! - it's fine I think.

This is how NOT to do it in my industry: 

 

Still can't bring myself to watch that film after being a salesman for many years.

My favourite sales manager at a car dealership was the one that motivated us troops at 8am in the morning by calling us a bunch of ****ing ****s on an almost daily basis, now that's people skills.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

He has not just chosen a manager in Lee's case....he is building a manager!  Have a little faith!

Building !!!

What out of 

Coloured Lego

Would be appropriate

SL couldn't build a football manager if he lived to be 1000

 

By the way he's Head Coach , not manager

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Building !!!

What out of 

Coloured Lego

Would be appropriate

SL couldn't build a football manager if he lived to be 1000

 

By the way he's Head Coach , not manager

Lego is stretching it, I reckon it's Duplo.

[Vincent Vega]

52 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Lego is stretching it, I reckon it's Duplo.

Stickle bricks

[Huntstile Red]

9 hours ago, Monkeh said:

why does he need too?, he release something last week via our youtube channel 

Why does he need to?

- Because he's the COO.

- Because he's the 'spokesman', in a lot of ways, for the club.

- Because there are people who, believe it or not, don't watch youtube. They have a radio and a telly. That's how they get their info. It would be wise of City to cover all the media options, not just assume everyone is 'logged on'. 

- Because he has pinned himself as 'head of all footballing matters, everything to do with the football club goes through me' (he said this when he arrived and was asked to describe his role). Footballing matters are a week-to-week subject (if not even day-to-day, but I might not expect him to be available every day for a word/statement). Things of a footballing nature - things that go through him, if you will - change from one week to the next. What changed this week was: we won a game. Perfect opportunity for him to appear and be positive, realistically positive, as opposed to saying "we have a very bright future ahead of us" (his words) after a recent defeat. 

- Because communication is a massive part of a business. We are the customers, the paying customers, and yet there is less communication from the club than many of us would like/expect. That makes some people feel disenfranchised and disconnected, which might possibly lead to them not putting money into the club (not going to games; not purchasing merchandise; not renewing season tickets, available next week so a very important time for the COO to be visible). As a businessman, this should surely ring bells in Ashton's ears. (He basically is a businessman, with a bit of football in the mix. Football business.) Others may not feel disconnected but appreciate being kept abreast of what's going on, even if it is a bit of a repeat of the same message. 

- Because 20pence might have asked different questions than Adam Baker's fawning lead-in 'questions'. I don't like him (I still have him and Steve Yates' Wine Lodge, er, lodged in my brain from 1990) but at least 20pence doesn't rely on the bloke and his Guernsey boss to be paid, so the moustachioed one will ask some more probing questions (and now we hit on another reason why Ashton may not have agreed to appear). It would have been a chance for Ashton to add more detail, expand on thoughts, reiterate or rephrase comments from the youtube chat. As a slick, corporate Suit, Ashton cannot underestimate the power of ramming home the message of a very bright future, Lee is our man, the club is on track etc etc (all lies, but I imagine Ashton being from the Trump school of lies - repeat them enough and people will soon forget what the truth was).

- Because he should be a decent human being and speak to the people who, ultimately, pay him enough to live in a  huge house, drive an expensive car, buy expensive suits, eat at fancy restaurants, go on several foreign holidays a year and still have enough in the bank to provide his family with a life of silver spoons as opposed to you, me and us thousands who work our asses off for far less reward. 

- Because he's just a Suit, with no real 'skills' except a an ability to hogwash people with corporate buzzwords and 'wheel and deal', who's vastly overpaid (as they all are at that level) and to hear him squirm, just a touch, would help me sleep 0.0000001% better for one night.

Ok, the last one may be pushing it. But other than that I stick by my words.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

5 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Stickle bricks

Play Doh.

[Vincent Vega]

4 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Play Doh.

Kinetic sand

[RumRed]

1 minute ago, Vincent Vega said:

Kinetic sand

The contents of their nappies.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, RumRed said:

Still can't bring myself to watch that film after being a salesman for many years.

My favourite sales manager at a car dealership was the one that motivated us troops at 8am in the morning by calling us a bunch of ****ing ****s on an almost daily basis, now that's people skills.

Not Swiss Tony then? 

My favourite line from Glengarry Glen Ross is Alec Baldwin's: "What's my name? **** you! That's my name!"

[Alessandro]

12 minutes ago, Huntstile Red said:

Why does he need to?

- Because he's the COO.

- Because he's the 'spokesman', in a lot of ways, for the club.

- Because there are people who, believe it or not, don't watch youtube. They have a radio and a telly. That's how they get their info. It would be wise of City to cover all the media options, not just assume everyone is 'logged on'. 

- Because he has pinned himself as 'head of all footballing matters, everything to do with the football club goes through me' (he said this when he arrived and was asked to describe his role). Footballing matters are a week-to-week subject (if not even day-to-day, but I might not expect him to be available every day for a word/statement). Things of a footballing nature - things that go through him, if you will - change from one week to the next. What changed this week was: we won a game. Perfect opportunity for him to appear and be positive, realistically positive, as opposed to saying "we have a very bright future ahead of us" (his words) after a recent defeat. 

- Because communication is a massive part of a business. We are the customers, the paying customers, and yet there is less communication from the club than many of us would like/expect. That makes some people feel disenfranchised and disconnected, which might possibly lead to them not putting money into the club (not going to games; not purchasing merchandise; not renewing season tickets, available next week so a very important time for the COO to be visible). As a businessman, this should surely ring bells in Ashton's ears. (He basically is a businessman, with a bit of football in the mix. Football business.) Others may not feel disconnected but appreciate being kept abreast of what's going on, even if it is a bit of a repeat of the same message. 

- Because 20pence might have asked different questions than Adam Baker's fawning lead-in 'questions'. I don't like him (I still have him and Steve Yates' Wine Lodge, er, lodged in my brain from 1990) but at least 20pence doesn't rely on the bloke and his Guernsey boss to be paid, so the moustachioed one will ask some more probing questions (and now we hit on another reason why Ashton may not have agreed to appear). It would have been a chance for Ashton to add more detail, expand on thoughts, reiterate or rephrase comments from the youtube chat. As a slick, corporate Suit, Ashton cannot underestimate the power of ramming home the message of a very bright future, Lee is our man, the club is on track etc etc (all lies, but I imagine Ashton being from the Trump school of lies - repeat them enough and people will soon forget what the truth was).

- Because he should be a decent human being and speak to the people who, ultimately, pay him enough to live in a  huge house, drive an expensive car, buy expensive suits, eat at fancy restaurants, go on several foreign holidays a year and still have enough in the bank to provide his family with a life of silver spoons as opposed to you, me and us thousands who work our asses off for far less reward. 

- Because he's just a Suit, with no real 'skills' except a an ability to hogwash people with corporate buzzwords and 'wheel and deal', who's vastly overpaid (as they all are at that level) and to hear him squirm, just a touch, would help me sleep 0.0000001% better for one night.

Ok, the last one may be pushing it. But other than that I stick by my words.

I think a post like this is the crux of the problem with Mark Ashton.

You write about reasonable concerns, but ruin it with your last two paragraphs (I know you half said it was a joke, but I think the truth is coming through) which reveal the underlying personal resentment some 'working class' fans have towards the corporate types, the 'privileged ones'. 

So many people come across as having a chip on their shoulders and just look for another chance to have a go. 

In my opinion it doesn't help them being taken anymore seriously, though, because everyone will say their judgement is clouded by their emotions.

[Red-Robbo]

He wears a suit jacket, but he has a Midland accent, and, if his last video on the OS is anything to go by, he's fairly straightforward.

Which "corporate buzzwords" are people on about? None in that vid as far as I can see.

He's an ex-professional footballer who has went on to be a director at the club he played for. He is hardly Sir Humphrey Appleby.

I guess people would be happier if we had a COO who went on air and said: "Er, yeah Geoff. Basically, er, um, the lads is gutted. Know what I mean, Geoff...." 

[BCFC Grim]

5 hours ago, RumRed said:

At just after 7am, something you'd like to tell us? 

I was up for Cheltenham, unfortunately I'm coming back down. Although I did see the best right back we've had in years piss off a balcony.

[BobBobSuperBob]

You have to be fair to him - his claims were true

MARK Ashton claims there is a growing realisation within football that something special is happening at Bristol City.

 

 

 

He could obviously see we were on the verge of setting club records

 

 

Read more at http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/special-happening-bristol-city-claims-chief-mark/story-29385441-detail/story.html#ZJUCOeyt34TWi63z.99

 

 

[RumRed]

24 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Not Swiss Tony then? 

My favourite line from Glengarry Glen Ross is Alec Baldwin's: "What's my name? **** you! That's my name!"

Even 20 years later the scars are still there!  But yes it was very much like that. Bloody horrible job.

[Redmycolour]

23 hours ago, Robbored said:

So MA declined a live radio interview with Twentyman.

Ashton must had permission from SL turned down.

Ashton doesn't have the bollocks to admit he was wrong about LJ

[BobBobSuperBob]

14 minutes ago, redmycolour said:

Ashton doesn't have the bollocks to admit he was wrong about LJ

More importantly neither does Steve Lansdown

 

IMHO of course