Preston Refund - Confirmed

[Nagy Mahal]

On 05/04/2017 at 15:08, RaspberryRed said:

Now that is Classy. A club that really recognises a sacrfice as opposed to one who tells us when and where to voice our discontent

@pnefcok Full props to your club 

 

Brighton did the same thing last season IIRC

[MarcusX]

Considering how many posters are "ITK" and connected, I'm surprised we don't have an actual answer to this yet...

[BobBobSuperBob]

Nothing to do with being stung at the criticism of them for their pitiful efforts then

Just a great gesture ......

 

Lets see whether they bother to pick up their tools on Saturday - That will be a better indication of whether 'they care' Mr Johnson

Or one could suggest they wouldn't have thrown the towel in in the first place if ' they cared'

[bristolcitysweden]

Don't see why the players should pay. Not their fault the way the club is managed.

[bearded_red]

Whilst it is decent gesture, the whole money back thing after a game never sits particularly well with me.

It's obviously not for losing heavily as we'd all be due a lot of money. Likewise, it's not just for a terrible performance as again, we'd all be due to a lot of money. We're all fully aware these two things may happen when we buy the ticket after all!

So what is it for? Is it an admittance of a lack of effort? If so, paying back the ticket money doesn't even come close to being an acceptable apology. 

Putting in a performance and getting a result Saturday would be a better start, but I expect that will be too difficult.

I don't want it to seem I'm criticising what is possibly just the players genuinely feeling guilty for Tuesday night, but, just as when other clubs have done it, I find myself fearing that is them firstly admitting, and secondly trying to make themselves feel better, about going out onto the pitch and not bothering.

 

 

[bend it like brian]

32 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

Don't see why the players should pay. Not their fault the way the club is managed.

dont agree all though it looks like were lumbered with the floater 11 professional footballers with no manager should produce better than Tuesday nights offal   

[NickJ]

Been thinking about this refund thing. 

Doesn't ring true to me.

Yes I believe players on £15k pw wouldn't think twice about dipping a few hundred quid once a season.

What I do question is whether it was their idea. 

Think about it, if it really came from "the players", it would have had to have started from one of them, to begin with.

And if it was one, a newsworthy story would have been to say that, for example, Aden Flint, or Lee Tomlin, got the players together and said look lads this is what we must do. But no, the story is, its "the players". I don't buy it.

My opinion, its PR spin by the LJ acolytes within the club. Its a subliminal message which says, look its not the managers fault, the players have accepted blame.

But in fact the club has, one way or another, paid out. The players aren't going to argue or dispute it, are they.

Just my opinion.

[CotswoldRed]

On 06/04/2017 at 16:48, GrahamC said:

Read the ******* thread, yes, under Tinnion at Swansea.

Glad it wasn't me that asked. 

[054123]

On 06/04/2017 at 18:04, bearded_red said:

Whilst it is decent gesture, the whole money back thing after a game never sits particularly well with me.

It's obviously not for losing heavily as we'd all be due a lot of money. Likewise, it's not just for a terrible performance as again, we'd all be due to a lot of money. We're all fully aware these two things may happen when we buy the ticket after all!

So what is it for? Is it an admittance of a lack of effort? If so, paying back the ticket money doesn't even come close to being an acceptable apology. 

Putting in a performance and getting a result Saturday would be a better start, but I expect that will be too difficult.

I don't want it to seem I'm criticising what is possibly just the players genuinely feeling guilty for Tuesday night, but, just as when other clubs have done it, I find myself fearing that is them firstly admitting, and secondly trying to make themselves feel better, about going out onto the pitch and not bothering.

 

 

I think it's a nice gesture but on reflection i struggle with the idea of amending admission prices based on performance. Should everyone have paid double after Bradford and Walsall during our promotions year, triple after Liverpool?

You pay your admission price to watch sport played by 2 teams. It may be awful it may be the best thing ever. 

That's sport.

 

[RedM]

7 hours ago, NickJ said:

Been thinking about this refund thing. 

Doesn't ring true to me.

Yes I believe players on £15k pw wouldn't think twice about dipping a few hundred quid once a season.

What I do question is whether it was their idea. 

Think about it, if it really came from "the players", it would have had to have started from one of them, to begin with.

And if it was one, a newsworthy story would have been to say that, for example, Aden Flint, or Lee Tomlin, got the players together and said look lads this is what we must do. But no, the story is, its "the players". I don't buy it.

My opinion, its PR spin by the LJ acolytes within the club. Its a subliminal message which says, look its not the managers fault, the players have accepted blame.

But in fact the club has, one way or another, paid out. The players aren't going to argue or dispute it, are they.

Just my opinion.

It was driven by Korey. 

[NickJ]

7 minutes ago, RedM said:

It was driven by Korey. 

I read somewhere else on here that in an interview (I haven't seen it so cannot say for sure) he initially said it was club led, then corrected himself and said it was the players?

[RedM]

On 6 April 2017 at 18:04, bearded_red said:

Whilst it is decent gesture, the whole money back thing after a game never sits particularly well with me.

It's obviously not for losing heavily as we'd all be due a lot of money. Likewise, it's not just for a terrible performance as again, we'd all be due to a lot of money. We're all fully aware these two things may happen when we buy the ticket after all!

So what is it for? Is it an admittance of a lack of effort? If so, paying back the ticket money doesn't even come close to being an acceptable apology. 

Putting in a performance and getting a result Saturday would be a better start, but I expect that will be too difficult.

I don't want it to seem I'm criticising what is possibly just the players genuinely feeling guilty for Tuesday night, but, just as when other clubs have done it, I find myself fearing that is them firstly admitting, and secondly trying to make themselves feel better, about going out onto the pitch and not bothering.

 

 

That was my initial point as soon as they said 'the players' I was alarmed. I did question instantly whether it was an admission of guilt as they realised they deliberately had put out and under par performance, even by their standards or it was a goodwill gesture as  it just was 'one of those nights', which we've had too many of this season, coincidence or are we just 'unlucky'?

As another poster has pointed out those players should have been capable of more with no manager. Let's imagine a ridiculous situation where all the coaching staff had got stuck in traffic for example, and the ref had insisted the match go ahead without them. I don't honestly think the players couldn't organise themselves and put out a better show of effort at least than they did on Tuesday. 

No doubt they had their reasons, but they know they let us and themselves down. They want us onside so a mornings wage won't be missed, or probably only a couple of hours for most, infact they probably earned that money whilst sitting on the coach home themselves. 

A decent gesture yes, probably with the best of intentions but also with a bit of self preservation too. But the club should have done this in my opinion, the fact that they haven't says more than the gesture itself.

[CotswoldRed]

The irony is the players have pretty much worked their socks off all season for a failing manager. 

As soon as they let us/themselves down there is demonstrable acknowledgment. 

 

 

[Olé]

9 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

The irony is the players have pretty much worked their socks off all season for a failing manager. 

As soon as they let us/themselves down there is demonstrable acknowledgment. 

I don't know that you could say they have always worked their socks off, but I agree with the overall sentiment about where the problem is.

I think the interesting thing with the past two performances, is how quickly the white flag went up after we went behind. Lee Johnson calls it mentally weak, but I think the real story is the lack of belief in the system. Under prior managers you could see a team take a goal conceded in their stride and have belief in their way of playing that they would get back into it.

The players do not believe Lee Johnson's football will do that (and rightly so, it's obvious to me watching the football too) and I would go as far as to say that some of them may just get caught in two minds once they're behind, that it would be no bad thing if Johnson's football was shown up for what it is, by a bad defeat, and so mentally check out of the game.

I'm firmly of a view that the refund was them clearing their consciences from having done that on Tuesday night. Unfortunately as I said when the refund was announced, they obviously tried to give Lee enough rope, and didn't expect him still to be here. Which means it's a short term gesture and the real problem is still here, with another performance like that to come. 

[CotswoldRed]

I fear the same Olé. 

What is going to change to improve things? 

It has to be between the ears now. 

[Spoons]

24 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

The irony is the players have pretty much worked their socks off all season for a failing manager. 

As soon as they let us/themselves down there is demonstrable acknowledgment. 

 

 

Let's me honest LJ is to blame massively but the players defenaily haven't worked there socks off all season, especially in the last two games! 

[54-46]

Anyone who received a refund should chuck the cash they received on a wolves win, currently 15/8 on bet365

Its money you'd already accounted for spending and would give you more cash to drown your sorrows IF things go badly today. If we win  no biggie, as you'd already thought you'd spent it 

Cue the responses saying you should never bet against your own team........

[Miah Dennehy]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 18:04, bearded_red said:

Whilst it is decent gesture, the whole money back thing after a game never sits particularly well with me.

It's obviously not for losing heavily as we'd all be due a lot of money. Likewise, it's not just for a terrible performance as again, we'd all be due to a lot of money. We're all fully aware these two things may happen when we buy the ticket after all!

So what is it for? Is it an admittance of a lack of effort? If so, paying back the ticket money doesn't even come close to being an acceptable apology. 

Putting in a performance and getting a result Saturday would be a better start, but I expect that will be too difficult.

I don't want it to seem I'm criticising what is possibly just the players genuinely feeling guilty for Tuesday night, but, just as when other clubs have done it, I find myself fearing that is them firstly admitting, and secondly trying to make themselves feel better, about going out onto the pitch and not bothering.

 

 

It's all a bit of a nonsense really. How far do you take it, should I claim the cost of a season ticket back when we went down to the conference? It's a meaningless gesture in a society that has become obsessed with being seen to do the right thing. Just go and play your ******* heart out in the next game FFS (although obviously I hope they don't :))

[CotswoldRed]

4 minutes ago, 54-46 said:

Anyone who received a refund should chuck the cash they received on a wolves win, currently 15/8 on bet365

Its money you'd already accounted for spending and would give you more cash to drown your sorrows IF things go badly today. If we win  no biggie, as you'd already thought you'd spent it 

Cue the responses saying you should never bet against your own team........

You should bet on the horse most likely to win in most cases. 

I reckon if you don't tell the players they'll not find out anyway. 

[GrahamC]

27 minutes ago, Olé said:

I don't know that you could say they have always worked their socks off, but I agree with the overall sentiment about where the problem is.

I think the interesting thing with the past two performances, is how quickly the white flag went up after we went behind. Lee Johnson calls it mentally weak, but I think the real story is the lack of belief in the system. Under prior managers you could see a team take a goal conceded in their stride and have belief in their way of playing that they would get back into it.

The players do not believe Lee Johnson's football will do that (and rightly so, it's obvious to me watching the football too) and I would go as far as to say that some of them may just get caught in two minds once they're behind, that it would be no bad thing if Johnson's football was shown up for what it is, by a bad defeat, and so mentally check out of the game.

I'm firmly of a view that the refund was them clearing their consciences from having done that on Tuesday night. Unfortunately as I said when the refund was announced, they obviously tried to give Lee enough rope, and didn't expect him still to be here. Which means it's a short term gesture and the real problem is still here, with another performance like that to come. 

Could not agree more.

To me the big difference between this season and before he took over in the last one, is that although we were obviously badly under resourced under Cotterill and privately some (all?) of the players may well have thought that 3-5-2 just wasn't working, they (much more often than not), gave everything until the final whistle even when completely outclassed.

The contrast between Cotterill's last game v Preston (and what should have been Johnson's last one) v the same opponents midweek could not have been greater.

Last season I watched a team battle until the very end, losing to a late goal and then virtually have to drag themselves up off the floor at the final whistle. Their manager was so fired up he (understandably to me) lost his rag with someone who had been swearing at him for 10 minutes.

This season, we go behind, we fall apart, we give up and we ship goal after goal, not even doing the basics. Our "head coach" runs down the tunnel like a coward at the final whistle and then slags players off individually at the post match press conference.

Is it any wonder that they have absolutely no respect for him?

Johnson out.

[Numero Uno]

On 06/04/2017 at 12:16, Rednwhiterob said:

I understand it was the PowerPoint presentation that got us Tammy.....

Without whom we would have been relegated at least a month ago. That's some endorsement of the dwarfs managerial skills that is!!!!!!!!!!!!