This may be an unpopular view but...

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe an unpopular view that goes against the grain but...this season, has it been that bad really?

We had a very bad patch- thinking especially the 11 losses in 12 which included the 8 losses on the spin and yes that made history for all the wrong reasons but- provided we win Sunday and perhaps rise a place 2 in the final standings. Has this season been so bad?

Positives:

• Saturday- how The Game in the Times reckoned Birmingham's win over Huddersfield who rested 10 was performance of weekend in Championship I do not know, ours clearly was. Regardless, to win at Brighton on their Championship party was fantastic.
• 3-1 v Villa
• 4-0 at Fulham
• 4-0 v Huddersfield
• Newcastle away
• A decent cup run while we are at this level the first time in some while- unlike past Cup runs it was a good Cup run in the 2nd tier which we have not done much of in past 2nd tier seasons.
• The fact we brought in quite a few younger players- a season of churn isn't necessarily easy to manage. Seen some of them begin to flourish or show signs of strong promise too- Brownhill for one. Paterson has started to flourish as well at this latter stage of the season.
• Average attendances highest in a generation- indeed I think Newcastle at home was the highest since the top flight?

Honourable mentions:

• Leeds at home
• Derby away
• Beating Hollowhead!
• Beating Fulham away in the Cup- given their home record, winning there twice in 2 games is decent.
• Though it is already sort of covered in some of the above, the 2nd half comebacks- rallies, especially in the last half hours were quite thrilling in the first third of the season IMO

I know there were many lows, not least the 11 losses in 12, which encompassed the 8 game losing streak, the whole LJ erratic selection, late goals and the Fulham and Burton home games in particular- we were put through the mill to say the least! Not saying is a stellar season by any means but looking back at it we've had quite a few memorable moments despite everything and I firmly believe this squad has its better days ahead of them.

no it hasn't 

It's been the most frustrating season in my life time but does't even make the top 10 in worst,

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

1 hour ago, Bullbag said:

Let back a clueless 'manager' who took us through the worst run in 123 years of history.

Fickle.

#fuckinggenius back to you with brass knobs on. 

He's hardly clueless when his record with the club overall is pretty decent...

Didn't you want your old club back? You know the club who achieved virtually nothing in that 123 years!

[Murraysrightplum]

In sport (and many other things) you are never as good as you think you are when things are going well and you are rarely as bad as you think you are when things are crap. 

We're a decent side at this level with issues but a lot of potential 

[petehinton]

The negatives far outweigh the positives for me. Alpha omega and all that.

LJ publicly calling out Magnusson - ''he spent the whole second half on the floor'' and Taylor Moore ''sometimes you need to be braver and be willing to take a broken nose to stop a goal'' after losses. Same with Matty Taylor. Called our best striker as ''having the mental football age of an 18 year old'' before we sold him.

Said that 'we are all in this together' yet said the players will reimburse fans after Preston, but he wouldn't. The 'no one hurts more than me' comments over and over. The bullshit Mark Ashton PR stunts by the internal media team. Lansdown publicly saying 'i put more in than the fans so there' mentality on international radio. Engvall. The record beating losing run. 

I think the only thing that would be good enough to make all that acceptable would be promotion. I don't know how waiting until 45th game to secure safety, coupled with all the above, is positive.

I can think of two things i'll look back on fondly this season - Huddersfield at home, and the second half at home to Villa. That's about it.

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

The negatives far outweigh the positives for me. Alpha omega and all that.

LJ publicly calling out Magnusson - ''he spent the whole second half on the floor'' and Taylor Moore ''sometimes you need to be braver and be willing to take a broken nose to stop a goal'' after losses. Same with Matty Taylor. Called our best striker as ''having the mental football age of an 18 year old'' before we sold him.

Said that 'we are all in this together' yet said the players will reimburse fans after Preston, but he wouldn't. The 'no one hurts more than me' comments over and over. The bullshit Mark Ashton PR stunts by the internal media team. Lansdown publicly saying 'i put more in than the fans so there' mentality on international radio. Engvall. The record beating losing run. 

I think the only thing that would be good enough to make all that acceptable would be promotion. I don't know how waiting until 45th game to secure safety, coupled with all the above, is positive.

I can think of two things i'll look back on fondly this season - Huddersfield at home, and the second half at home to Villa. That's about it.

 

Not Fulham away? Not the overall performance at Newcastle?

[Meryl Goodrum]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe an unpopular view that goes against the grain but...this season, has it been that bad really?

We had a very bad patch- thinking especially the 11 losses in 12 which included the 8 losses on the spin and yes that made history for all the wrong reasons but- provided we win Sunday and perhaps rise a place 2 in the final standings. Has this season been so bad?

Positives:

• Saturday- how The Game in the Times reckoned Birmingham's win over Huddersfield who rested 10 was performance of weekend in Championship I do not know, ours clearly was. Regardless, to win at Brighton on their Championship party was fantastic.
• 3-1 v Villa
• 4-0 at Fulham
• 4-0 v Huddersfield
• Newcastle away
• A decent cup run while we are at this level the first time in some while- unlike past Cup runs it was a good Cup run in the 2nd tier which we have not done much of in past 2nd tier seasons.
• The fact we brought in quite a few younger players- a season of churn isn't necessarily easy to manage. Seen some of them begin to flourish or show signs of strong promise too- Brownhill for one. Paterson has started to flourish as well at this latter stage of the season.
• Average attendances highest in a generation- indeed I think Newcastle at home was the highest since the top flight?

Honourable mentions:

• Leeds at home
• Derby away
• Beating Hollowhead!
• Beating Fulham away in the Cup- given their home record, winning there twice in 2 games is decent.
• Though it is already sort of covered in some of the above, the 2nd half comebacks- rallies, especially in the last half hours were quite thrilling in the first third of the season IMO

I know there were many lows, not least the 11 losses in 12, which encompassed the 8 game losing streak, the whole LJ erratic selection, late goals and the Fulham and Burton home games in particular- we were put through the mill to say the least! Not saying is a stellar season by any means but looking back at it we've had quite a few memorable moments despite everything and I firmly believe this squad has its better days ahead of them.

Absolutely agree with you. I also think that there is a great danger of over-analysing every game. Every team has its highs and lows and it's unrealistic to expect them to crush the opposition every time.  It hasn't been the perfect season by any means, but looked at as a whole, we have done pretty well. This won't make me popular either, but my highlight will remain Luke Freeman's goal against Ipswich... loved it!!!!!!

[SARJ]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe an unpopular view that goes against the grain but...this season, has it been that bad really?

We had a very bad patch- thinking especially the 11 losses in 12 which included the 8 losses on the spin and yes that made history for all the wrong reasons but- provided we win Sunday and perhaps rise a place 2 in the final standings. Has this season been so bad?

Positives:

• Saturday- how The Game in the Times reckoned Birmingham's win over Huddersfield who rested 10 was performance of weekend in Championship I do not know, ours clearly was. Regardless, to win at Brighton on their Championship party was fantastic.
• 3-1 v Villa
• 4-0 at Fulham
• 4-0 v Huddersfield
• Newcastle away
• A decent cup run while we are at this level the first time in some while- unlike past Cup runs it was a good Cup run in the 2nd tier which we have not done much of in past 2nd tier seasons.
• The fact we brought in quite a few younger players- a season of churn isn't necessarily easy to manage. Seen some of them begin to flourish or show signs of strong promise too- Brownhill for one. Paterson has started to flourish as well at this latter stage of the season.
• Average attendances highest in a generation- indeed I think Newcastle at home was the highest since the top flight?

Honourable mentions:

• Leeds at home
• Derby away
• Beating Hollowhead!
• Beating Fulham away in the Cup- given their home record, winning there twice in 2 games is decent.
• Though it is already sort of covered in some of the above, the 2nd half comebacks- rallies, especially in the last half hours were quite thrilling in the first third of the season IMO

I know there were many lows, not least the 11 losses in 12, which encompassed the 8 game losing streak, the whole LJ erratic selection, late goals and the Fulham and Burton home games in particular- we were put through the mill to say the least! Not saying is a stellar season by any means but looking back at it we've had quite a few memorable moments despite everything and I firmly believe this squad has its better days ahead of them.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves: despite a decent finish, this season has been godawful. 

Never before has going to City felt like a chore for me, but going down to watch a tinkered with Johnson side play dire football and ultimately lose made a night in with the ironing more appealing. And said situation went on for weeks and weeks.

Top that off with Lansdown's comments that the paying supporters not having the right to grumble about it whilst advertising basketball and badminton at halftime.

Glad we're staying up, but I'd be happier next season if Lee wasn't our manager.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

The negatives far outweigh the positives for me. Alpha omega and all that.

LJ publicly calling out Magnusson - ''he spent the whole second half on the floor'' and Taylor Moore ''sometimes you need to be braver and be willing to take a broken nose to stop a goal'' after losses. Same with Matty Taylor. Called our best striker as ''having the mental football age of an 18 year old'' before we sold him.

Said that 'we are all in this together' yet said the players will reimburse fans after Preston, but he wouldn't. The 'no one hurts more than me' comments over and over. The bullshit Mark Ashton PR stunts by the internal media team. Lansdown publicly saying 'i put more in than the fans so there' mentality on international radio. Engvall. The record beating losing run. 

I think the only thing that would be good enough to make all that acceptable would be promotion. I don't know how waiting until 45th game to secure safety, coupled with all the above, is positive.

I can think of two things i'll look back on fondly this season - Huddersfield at home, and the second half at home to Villa. That's about it.

 

Not enjoyed watch Tammy then?

[Unan]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

Can you qualify that statement in the same articulate way that OP did?

Another one of your best Robbored, also not bringing any quality to the thread, nice one 

[Jack Dawe]

This season - has it been that bad, really?

No, not compared to previous seasons at this level (with a few exceptions, 1976 and 2008 for example). It has been bog-standard really, ie a struggle.

And that is the cloud hanging over SL (for some): despite all the improvements and modernisation and the enormous financial backing SL brings, and all the exciting talking up of the club and our prospects, despite all this, it's the same old City at this level: struggling. Two points better than Burton Albion (yes, yes! Ok, ok: and 6 points better than lunatic owned, transfer embargoed, notfamousanymore Nottm Forest. Or Blackburn Rovers. Ok? Happy now?)

But billionaire Steve Lansdown is not in this to be bog-standard, not with game-changing wealth like he has; he is not here to just repeat the mediocrity of previous owners (who were nowhere near as wealthy). The whole point of having a billionaire owner and a modernised ground, and 14k season tickets, and highest crowds for 37 years is not to be two points better than Burton Albion (nor even just 6 better than fruitcake owned, about-to-be-relegated Nottm Forest/Blackburn Rovers). Steve Lansdown expects a hell of a lot more than this, never mind us moaners on here.

But! The refurbed ground with record attendances (and presumably income/turnover) is but one year in, it is still early days for us as a modernised fc with facilities to enable us to compete, so we have to give SL longer to make all this count. Perhaps all us moaners/negative nellies/bed-wetters are too hasty, too panicky, too trigger-happy. Too set in our moaning, negative, bed-wetting ways.

We'd just like one season where we are not dabbling with relegation, for a change. That's all (for now).

 

[Monkeh]

30 minutes ago, SARJ said:

Let's not get ahead of ourselves: despite a decent finish, this season has been godawful. 

Never before has going to City felt like a chore for me, but going down to watch a tinkered with Johnson side play dire football and ultimately lose made a night in with the ironing more appealing. And said situation went on for weeks and weeks.

Top that off with Lansdown's comments that the paying supporters not having the right to grumble about it whilst advertising basketball and badminton at halftime.

Glad we're staying up, but I'd be happier next season if Lee wasn't our manager.

did you not watch us under SoD, that was far worse then anything served up this season, despite the bad run, we've always had fight (two games aside), under SoD we didn't even have that 

[Robbored]

32 minutes ago, Tammys Scan said:

Another one of your best Robbored, also not bringing any quality to the thread, nice one 

So that's a no then..............

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

29 minutes ago, Bullbag said:

Agree, some have very short memories on here.

They most certainly do considering some keep bleating on that this is the worst season in living memory when it isn't... Not by a long way!

Frustrating? yes but a disaster? No. If our season was a 'disaster' then Wolves and more notably Villa have had a catastrophe given they both spent 30M and 71M respectively

[RumRed]

Just now, Emperor Palpatine said:

They most certainly do considering some keep bleating on that this is the worst season in living memory when it isn't... Not by a long way!

Frustrating? yes but a disaster? No. If our season was a 'disaster' then Wolves and more notably Villa have had a catastrophe given they both spent 30M and 71M respectively

Setting our bar at the level of others failure, small time mentality.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

32 minutes ago, RumRed said:

Setting our bar at the level of others failure, small time mentality.

The clubs existence has been one long failure in some ways..

I'm not setting the bar here, it's merely a comparison to other clubs who have spent huge and have failed themselves. I just don't believe this season has been a disaster

[RumRed]

2 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

The clubs existence has been one long failure in some ways..

I'm not setting the bar here, it's merely a comparison to other clubs who have spent huge and have failed themselves. I just don't believe this season has been a disaster

Fair enough 

[JamesBCFC]

The season overall hasnt been dreadful. One spell of it was.

We could potentially finish 15th which would be pretty close to any reasonable expectation for this year.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Quite agree,  Taking a 3-0 lead?  Shocking!

Throwing away a 0-3 lead? Shocking....

[JHAGa]

You won't convince the same old haters, they made their minds up long ago and won't concede anything but negativity, but a lot of people can see the bigger picture. It's just a bitter few (the same old names) that won't let a bad run of form go, even when we've recovered from it, months on. You often find they have absurdly high expectations which is what sets them up to be so disappointed. I'm all for hoping the club does better, but these people have a misguided expectancy we should be waltzing this very competitive league.

 

Not a successful season but not a disaster and one lessons will have been learned from. LJ having experienced managing at this level for a full season and also the benefit of having managed the squad for a full season, I believe will be advantageous going into the next. Hopefully with a summer of good recruitment.

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Not enjoyed watch Tammy then?

Yes - haven't enjoyed him having to bail us out in about 75% of games this season though

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

An away draw at Derby is never "completely unacceptable", however frustrating the scenario which leads to it. 

If Matty Taylor hadn't produced arguably the miss of the season, then we'd have won that game (probably) Fine lines & small margins all seemed to go against us mid season. 

I agree that a draw at Derby can be seen as a decent result - but not when we were 0-3 up. That cannot be discounted. 

To give a similar example, Alan Pardew took Newcastle to a 5th place finish in the premier league, and during that time his side came back from 0-4 down at home to Arsenal to draw 4-4 - do you think the Arsenal fans were thinking, 'oh well, a draw away against that Newcastle side is a decent result' ? No, they were fuming that their side had given away a 0-4 lead...and we should have been similarly angry that our team could not defend a 0-3 lead...in no way was that 3-3 result acceptable in my view...

[ChippenhamRed]

6 hours ago, reddogkev said:

You've hated LJ since day 1 - you're infamous for it, therefor anything you say is tainted by your loathing for Lee.

We can all agree that we're disappointed with this season, and our expectations were far higher (perhaps too high) but the main thing is, we're still in the league, and realistically we have never looked in real danger of being relegated at any stage this year.

Must have misread this. For a second there it sounded like you were suggesting we have never looked in real danger of being relegated at any stage this year.

[BCFC Rich]

33 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I agree that a draw at Derby can be seen as a decent result - but not when we were 0-3 up. That cannot be discounted. 

To give a similar example, Alan Pardew took Newcastle to a 5th place finish in the premier league, and during that time his side came back from 0-4 down at home to Arsenal to draw 4-4 - do you think the Arsenal fans were thinking, 'oh well, a draw away against that Newcastle side is a decent result' ? No, they were fuming that their side had given away a 0-4 lead...and we should have been similarly angry that our team could not defend a 0-3 lead...in no way was that 3-3 result acceptable in my view...

 

Not exactly a fair comparison, I think Arsenal fans would have a fair expectation of a result v Newcastle away - even in that season. I think if you look back at those two games (New and Derby) they came off the back of our poor run and confidence was down, as soon as they got one back doubt crept in. If you compare that with now (Brighton game is a good example) I think it makes the turnaround more impressive. We had to get over the mental scars and doubt the bad run had caused. I have no doubt if we played either of the games now and had the same first half we'd see the game out. 

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I agree that a draw at Derby can be seen as a decent result - but not when we were 0-3 up. That cannot be discounted. 

To give a similar example, Alan Pardew took Newcastle to a 5th place finish in the premier league, and during that time his side came back from 0-4 down at home to Arsenal to draw 4-4 - do you think the Arsenal fans were thinking, 'oh well, a draw away against that Newcastle side is a decent result' ? No, they were fuming that their side had given away a 0-4 lead...and we should have been similarly angry that our team could not defend a 0-3 lead...in no way was that 3-3 result acceptable in my view...

I guess it's relative to what you'd have taken before the game. 

Some might say that Arsenal have higher expectations than Bristol City! Although I can see the confusion, after we left St James' park with only a point, having led 2-0. 

No doubt the Derby game was dissapointing & frustrating, given the pattern of the game, but I'd have been very happy with the point prior to the game, so, despite the way it panned out, it was still a decent point. Should have been 3, but a decent point, that I'd have been very happy to take before the game. 

[Red Exile]

I'd say that this had been one of the most frustrating seasons I can recall. Reflecting on this thread I'd agree that ultimately it's nothing like as disappointing as a relegation season...we live to fight again...but we have inexplicably snatched defeat from the jaws of victory on too many  occasions, and that awful losing run speaks for itself.

I watched the club, home and (sometimes) away, throughout the early 80's. I watched us tumble down the leagues, I watched us get a pretty fortunate draw at Corinthian Casuals...I've seen some struggling City sides. I don't recall watching one with such unfulfilled talent. And that's made this, for me, a season of extreme frustration!

[iamsober]

8 hours ago, glynriley said:

Positive - Newcastle away? We threw away a 2 goal lead.

Honourable mention - Derby away? We threw away a 3 goal lead.

I suppose if you're looking at results like those as positives, we've had a great season!!

And if you had your way we would win every match! cuckoo land

[RobArnold10]

Let's look at this to our expectations this season. Bottom line expectation was to survive. That was achieved, so therefore the season is acceptable. 

Lets be honest though, with the players put together, the form we had at the end of last season, we thought mid table was achieveable, if not a minimum. So with a potential to finish only high as 15th (I think) can only be labelled as a disappointment, if not a failure. How much of a disappointment it's been depends on how high you believed these players could go, personally I thought we could have easily and perhaps should easily have been top half. So for me it's not been good enough. 

That said, the start and end of season form again gives me hope for next year, and if we can strengthen, and improve on that form that we've had as of late, then again, why not top half? And should that come to be this season may not have been a complete failure as it may be the springboard to a good season. Start poorly however and it becomes irrelevant, and it would also put LJ's job security in a very precarious position.

[cityexile]

7 hours ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

I don't ever have expectations of doing well: decades of watching us play have sapped almost sense of optimism. And as a minimum in Division 2 I would take top of the bottom 4, and then anything else is a bonus.

I don't think this is the worst season I have lived through and I certainly don't think LJ is the worst manager I recall, but there is no way of dressing up the winless run as anything but a sh1tshow. In addition, our bedwetting game management tactics during that run suggested that players and management were clueless as to what they should be doing. Your honourable mention of Derby away is an example: 3 up in the first half and (IIRC) forced them to use all their subs in the 1st half. To piss that away was unacceptable. Possibly team talks by the opposing manager thereafter involved him sticking his head around the dressing room door and simply saying "lads, it's City".

I wanted LJ gone earlier this year, but I give him the benefit of the doubt in pulling together a run when it mattered at the end of the season. The concern is that a large part of our survival hinged on goals from a teenage loanee: replacing him is just one of the major jobs LJ has between now and August. 2-3 months into 2017/18 will be the test of whether he can hack it.

Agree with a lot of that. Over my years, any time we start a new season in this league is just about better than average. We do well in Div 1 and poorly in this one, by and large.

The problem is trying to make sense of this season, as it has included such extremes. If you are a half full or half empty kind of fan there has been plenty to bite on. To go 23 games, half a season, picking up 12 points was Rotherham form. Just to awful for words, with few of the excuses other teams that have pulled that kind of run have.

Equally, it has been topped and tailed by pretty much promotion form. Just so difficult to make any sense of that. In some ways if we had a season like Ipswich, tarting about lower mid table most of the season, never really looking in a relegation struggle but may still finish below us, would it have felt better? Not sure. We spent a lot more money than some, and a lot less than others. Last season the teams that finished level or below us, but stayed up, were Huddersfeld, Reading, Fulham...and Rotherham. One down, three in play offs. It is self evidently a tough league and no one owes us anything.

A disaster? No. Disappointing overall? Yes. For me.

I ought to say I am very happy with the aim of being an established Championship side. A run of seasons not looking at the bottom of this table, and well, I am happy with that.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, iamsober said:

And if you had your way we would win every match! cuckoo land

But surely you can see that we should have won a match in which we were 0-3 up at half time? 

[iamsober]

Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

But surely you can see that we should have won a match in which we were 0-3 up at half time? 

you are quoting 1 match out of 45! you can quote 2 -PNE - but my answer will still be the same