Cowshed Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 hours ago, screech said: It's not where football is heading, I completely disagree. Goalkeepers have always thrown, rolled or kicked out, football has always been about keeping possession of the ball. It's nothing new I'm afraid. If you want to attach blame to anyone, blame the players for not finding spaces so they can recieve the ball from deep to start a move. The goalkeepers who are good with their feet as well as their hands do not play in this league. And I can't see the German national keeper coming here. People forget when Fielding makes those simple passes across the back line, they only focus on him when he has to smash it long because their isnt an option on to play it short. Pass and move was the Liverpool way, they were a very different side to most clubs back then, they sought the best in every position, we can't. This is not new which is why I mentioned Clemence, however it is different. The alteration of the back pass rule made that difference, differences that continue as England has now firmly moved away from 4-4-2. Football is heading to players being more flexible because the game is becoming less physical. Football has become a game of possession and pass and move - In England that has not always been the case - The long ball game was part of the FA blueprint for football in opposition to Forest and Liverpool playing to feet and not going down the pomo route. Playing through the thirds , playing to feet is now firmly part of FA coaching, and Keepers playing high and retaining possession is part of FA goalkeeping coaching qualifications from level one up. Retain and play ... It is where football has gone and will continue to. I was not apportioning blame merely answering a post that placed no emphasis on a keepers ability to retain possession in a team that is clearly being set out to play through the thirds, press high etc ... Having a Keeper who can stand outside his box keep it simple, keep the ball, make interventions, be an option is now as important as being able to make a brilliant save, because having a Keeper who cannot means that Keeper will have to make more of those saves due to the lost possession coming back. It is not seeking the unattainable in every position it is, and will be a fundamental unless the Manager decides to turn all on its head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkRed! Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 10 hours ago, Redtucks said: So who shall we have in goal? Someone who makes "some majestic saves" that keeps us in the match or someone who can kick and pass the ball? Which midfielder do you think we should put between the sticks then? I think this is a tough call as plainly there are not the quality keepers out there anymore. I think we have been trying to replace FF and we just have not find the right keeper - ROD and Geifer being two recent examples. I would give Lucic an extended run. I think he has all the attributes to be a top class keeper and his distribution is better than FF at least in the limited games I have seen. If he is considered to raw then send him out on loan. FF will divide opinions because he is a fine shot stopper but I do think we need something more at this level. Hegeler also needs to play at CB so that we have some ball players at the back. The "lump" forward just does not work with our team given its lack of height in midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 That FF is a good shot stopper has never been an issue, I have less concerns about his kicking than most as they are mainly clearances. He is always willing to take the ball from a defender to clear, that we pass the ball back 20/30 yards of him to clear makes no sense in the first place.Surely the player with the ball at his feet knocking a 20 yard ball forward is the same as FF hitting a 50 yard ball to the same place, just from a less dangerous place. He is also not a sweeper/keeper , but you don't need that, is defenders move into space it's a simple pass. That we end up lumping the ball can be due to being closed down and poor movement, then safety first steps in. What we do need is an upgrade. To progress we need a keeper to command his area, it takes pressure off of the defence . To know when a ball is catchable and the keeper will come helps the defence massively. FF was never that. Our recruitment with keepers has been ....... lets say scattergun poor. ROD looked the perfect fit , until a massive drop off in confidence. Lucic seemed promising , scary with the ball at his feet , too confident if anything. I would have liked to have seen him given a run but like Geifer , you get a quick go and if you don't look like the bastard son of Gordon Banks you're out. LJ trusts FF , and why not , but if we are to get the right keeper in he has to be given a run, mistakes and all !! The next one has to be the right one, or why bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 The game is constantly changing and has changed . A goalkeeper needs good distribution skills. It's a shame that Frankie doesn't command his box or can't kick very well. He's tidy at stopping the ball going into the goal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Redtucks said: So who shall we have in goal? Someone who makes "some majestic saves" that keeps us in the match or someone who can kick and pass the ball? Which midfielder do you think we should put between the sticks then? this is not a pop at Fielding or a call of City need a Neuer surely in a specialist position the keeper should be good at what is two thirds of their game beyond saves? The Keeper now touches the ball more with his feet than the centre foward does!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 hours ago, 1960maaan said: That FF is a good shot stopper has never been an issue, I have less concerns about his kicking than most as they are mainly clearances. He is always willing to take the ball from a defender to clear, that we pass the ball back 20/30 yards of him to clear makes no sense in the first place.Surely the player with the ball at his feet knocking a 20 yard ball forward is the same as FF hitting a 50 yard ball to the same place, just from a less dangerous place. He is also not a sweeper/keeper , but you don't need that, is defenders move into space it's a simple pass. That we end up lumping the ball can be due to being closed down and poor movement, then safety first steps in. What we do need is an upgrade. To progress we need a keeper to command his area, it takes pressure off of the defence . To know when a ball is catchable and the keeper will come helps the defence massively. FF was never that. Our recruitment with keepers has been ....... lets say scattergun poor. ROD looked the perfect fit , until a massive drop off in confidence. Lucic seemed promising , scary with the ball at his feet , too confident if anything. I would have liked to have seen him given a run but like Geifer , you get a quick go and if you don't look like the bastard son of Gordon Banks you're out. LJ trusts FF , and why not , but if we are to get the right keeper in he has to be given a run, mistakes and all !! The next one has to be the right one, or why bother. Do you think they might be "going home" hoping he will keep it? Players not splitting? Coaching issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said: Do you think they might be "going home" hoping he will keep it? Players not splitting? Coaching issue? Can only keep it if players split and/or MF come looking for it. He'd get crucified if he took chances so lumps it. It might be coaching, maybe confidence, but teams press well these days to make you go long and possession is. Up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judda Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I can't be arsed to read the whole of this thread but I'd like to put it on record that I like Frankie. I think he has the support of all the lads. Why people think it's a priority is beyond me. I'd rather see one or two quality outfield players come in than a new keeper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Judda said: I can't be arsed to read the whole of this thread but I'd like to put it on record that I like Frankie. I think he has the support of all the lads. Why people think it's a priority is beyond me. I'd rather see one or two quality outfield players come in than a new keeper.... Just need an aggressive, but talented central midfielder and I'll say MA has delivered another good window in terms of getting players in....and moving a certain player on! Whether the signings are any good is not MA's chief responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Judda said: ycan't be arsed to read the whole of this thread but I'd like to put it on record that I like Frankie. I think he has the support of all the lads. Why people think it's a priority is beyond me. I'd rather see one or two quality outfield players come in than a new keeper.... Well generally what happens on a forum is people read what the topics is about so it is not beyond them. I am nice. Synopsis is its not the 1980's anymore and when you kick it anywhere filth like Brentford don't just kick it back again. The other view is. He's a keeper for ducks sake leave all that fannying about to Johnny Foreigner and boot it Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SackyRed Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 frankie had a top game at brentford, without him we would have been 5 down, we will take him to Europe!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted August 18, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 6 hours ago, SackyRed said: frankie had a top game at brentford, without him we would have been 5 down, we will take him to Europe!!!!! Cardiff ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Judda said: I can't be arsed to read the whole of this thread but I'd like to put it on record that I like Frankie. I think he has the support of all the lads. Why people think it's a priority is beyond me. I'd rather see one or two quality outfield players come in than a new keeper.... Priority has to be having genuine competition in every position. If the coaches genuinely believe that Lucic is the real deal and would not hesitate to stick him in should Frank lose form or get injured then fair enough and we can judge for ourselves when we next see Lucia. If this isn't the case then competition (that means a keeper who comes straight in looking to rip the shirt off Frank's back) needs to acquired this transfer window imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 On 8/16/2017 at 23:05, Redtucks said: So who shall we have in goal? Someone who makes "some majestic saves" that keeps us in the match or someone who can kick and pass the ball? Which midfielder do you think we should put between the sticks then? Looks like Lee Johnson is going very much to a side that builds from the back. it could be seen that is why Flint is no longer in the team?? you saying the keepers distribution is not important if City are going to play this way?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Three Lions said: Looks like Lee Johnson is going very much to a side that builds from the back. it could be seen that is why Flint is no longer in the team?? you saying the keepers distribution is not important if City are going to play this way?? No, obviously the 'keepers distribution is important, although the main reason we have a goalkeeper is so that he can save shots. That's why the laws of the game allow him to handle the ball. My point was made (somewhat in jest) to MarkRed in response to his view of Fielding on Tuesday that "Fielding was utter garbage but some majestic saves kept us in it and will take the focus off his dire display" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Lions Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, Redtucks said: No, obviously the 'keepers distribution is important, although the main reason we have a goalkeeper is so that he can save shots. That's why the laws of the game allow him to handle the ball. My point was made (somewhat in jest) to MarkRed in response to his view of Fielding on Tuesday that "Fielding was utter garbage but some majestic saves kept us in it and will take the focus off his dire display" and the game has changed for quite a while meaning the majority of a keepers game means they cannot handle the ball. its quite possible now to be good at something and not be picked. Flint Little Goldbourne are not dire or bad defenders but their passing is and was?? weak links due to their passing?? gone and going!! So a keeper can be good and bad. but in a team playing out from the back is this good enough? There is silly stuff on here about superstar keepers but could being not as good at shot stopping but 5-10% better at distribution make the team much better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Three Lions said: and the game has changed for quite a while meaning the majority of a keepers game means they cannot handle the ball. its quite possible now to be good at something and not be picked. Flint Little Goldbourne are not dire or bad defenders but their passing is and was?? weak links due to their passing?? gone and going!! So a keeper can be good and bad. but in a team playing out from the back is this good enough? There is silly stuff on here about superstar keepers but could being not as good at shot stopping but 5-10% better at distribution make the team much better? Fair comment. All about opinions I suppose. If there's a 'keeper who's as good a shot stopper as FF, who can control and pass the ball accurately, and who can dominate his area, he almost certainly won't be playing at our level!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 They say a good keeper can be worth 8 to 10 points a season. Thats another point to Frankie today then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 2 class saves again from FF. Saved us. Again. If people slate his kicking then god knows what can be said about Jordan Archer's. Horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: They say a good keeper can be worth 8 to 10 points a season. Thats another point to Frankie today then. 1 minute ago, petehinton said: 2 class saves again from FF. Saved us. Again. If people slate his kicking then god knows what can be said about Jordan Archer's. Horrendous. More important things to address than the keeper I feel,frankie isn't perfect we know but Jesus he has pulled off some blinders already and we are only 4 games in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 30 minutes ago, petehinton said: 2 class saves again from FF. Saved us. Again. If people slate his kicking then god knows what can be said about Jordan Archer's. Horrendous. Yep, what about that one in the final minute from Archer? It wasn't within 30 yards of a team mate. Pub football, like much of Millwall's hoofball, off the ball fouling and generally shite stuff today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handsofclay Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 18 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said: More important things to address than the keeper I feel,frankie isn't perfect we know but Jesus he has pulled off some blinders already and we are only 4 games in I'd say on present performances FF must be the best keeper in the division. Yet, there are many on here who are determined to replace him! It's interesting that a while back one of his mooted replacements on here was Bentley. Brentford fans, after Tuesday, were singing the praises of Fielding and having a bit of criticism of Bentley. I would've thought it easier to work on FF's distribution, his weak point, to improve it rather than have a keeper with great distribution but isn't a great shot stopper and have to work on making him a great shot stopper. On recent performances, one can see why he once made the England squad. He has batted away all pretenders to his title while he has been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 He actually claimed a crossed ball yesterday. Heady days . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Fielding is a Championship sub keeper all day long . Fondly remembered after the double winning season. Massive mistake from LJ not to prioritise a keeper . Gotta pay the pennies. Typical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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