Jerseybean Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 When he arrived LJ explained it would take three transfer windows for him to establish what he wanted, so how do people feel today about what's been achieved? Personally I think we have a stronger first team squad, with good options and competition for places and a very positive and forward-thinking approach to the development squad. It is of course always a matter of work in progress, but overall I am pleased with what has been achieved and recognise that it's been done in a sensible and substainable way. Just off to find my tin hat.
Hellfire Corner Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 You don't need a tin hat, I totally agree with you. Maybe a cute little red and white bobble hat instead!!
pride of the west Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 We've certainly got more players that you would feel comfortable in starting a championship game. The problem will now be keeping everyone happy.
formerly known as ivan Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Centre mid is the biggest cause for concern given that we have the same two starting there as we did when he took over. Jury is still out on the strikers. Defence is as strong as it was back in the Shaun Taylor/ Louis Carey days so happy with that.
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 More depth in most areas. Think we are stocked fine generally- could perhaps do with a more creative or passing type in midfield. Are we capable of pulling off 4-4-2 consistently with our current squad? No, IMO.
italian dave Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said: Centre mid is the biggest cause for concern given that we have the same two starting there as we did when he took over. Jury is still out on the strikers. Defence is as strong as it was back in the Shaun Taylor/ Louis Carey days so happy with that. Problem with the strikers is who's gone as much as who's arrived! We've had and lost Kodjia and Abraham during those three windows - a striking pair most teams would struggle to replace. Agree about CM: GON has arrived of course, and on their day all three are solid, but those days are too unpredictable, and two of the three seem to have long running susceptibility to injury. And agree the defence is looking good now, having been a weakness for several years.
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Think Brownhill will move centrally which will help us.
Negan Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Josh Brownhill Adam Matthews Gary O'Neil Lee Tomin Diego De Girolamo Hörður Magnússon Callum O'Dowda Ivan Lucic Taylor Moore Jamie Paterson Tammy Abraham Gustav Engvall Joel Ekstrand Milan Đurić Jens Hegeler Fabian Giefer Bailey Wright Matty Taylor David Cotterill Freddie Hinds Famara Diedhiou Eros Pisano Nathan Baker Niclas Eliasson Cauley Woodrow Jonathan Leko Luke Steele Excluding many of u23 signings that haven't featured.
megansdad Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 another good window in my view- we did not lose Aden Flint and brought in plenty of attacking options along with CB and GK. Happy, Happy, Happy.
Phileas Fogg Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Pretty happy with our strength and depth. We've got the players to play a range of different systems and styles now. Think we could do a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1, a 4-3-3, a 4-2-3-1 or even a 5-3-2 pretty well with our personnel.
Wanderingred Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, hodge said: Think Brownhill will move centrally which will help us. I think this is going to have a really big impact, especially as we also now have some pace and width in Leko and Eliasson. Watch this space!!
Silvio Dante Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 I think the quote was along the lines of "after three windows you'll see what a Lee Johnson side looks like" (or words to that effect, acknowledging it'd now be his team - whether signed or retained from prior regimes). So, for me, three windows in what do I see a Lee Johnson side is? At it's best, it's young, full of movement, high press and quick passing. We've seen that this season. At it's worse, it's bullied and out thought with a lack of physicality for an out ball to be held up, inviting pressure. Seen that too. After three windows I think I see what the plan is and when it works, it's a style I like. There could be improvement on some personnel, but after three windows I'd say I like the intent of what a Lee Johnson squad should be, and see progress towards a side playing the way he wants
EnclosureSurge Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, pride of the west said: We've certainly got more players that you would feel comfortable in starting a championship game I dunno, I'd be well comfortable starting all 26. Give us a high chance of a draw at least... 2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said: Jury is still out So is Đjurić
Super Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Time to see sime results. He has been backed enough no excuses.
spudski Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: I think the quote was along the lines of "after three windows you'll see what a Lee Johnson side looks like" (or words to that effect, acknowledging it'd now be his team - whether signed or retained from prior regimes). So, for me, three windows in what do I see a Lee Johnson side is? At it's best, it's young, full of movement, high press and quick passing. We've seen that this season. At it's worse, it's bullied and out thought with a lack of physicality for an out ball to be held up, inviting pressure. Seen that too. After three windows I think I see what the plan is and when it works, it's a style I like. There could be improvement on some personnel, but after three windows I'd say I like the intent of what a Lee Johnson squad should be, and see progress towards a side playing the way he wants He definitely has brought in the players to play the way he said he would. As you say...it's full of movement, quick interlinking passing, high pressing and faster tempo, people who can now take on a player, dribble and players that can cross. We can play with width or narrow. Expansive or Limit the space. We have many options. The team now excites me. It does look very offensive. We have two decent keepers now. Fielding seems to have settled down it seems. Less erratic. We have a plethora of decent CB's who are steady as a Rock. Baker, Wright, Magners, Flint, Hegeler....all have their certain attributes and strengths. Our Fullbacks almost play like wingbacks. They give width and can all cross a ball. Pisano, Bryan, Vyner, Kelly...all have been impressive, especially going forward. Pack in the CM gives some calmness, pick a pass and has a great eye. What he lacks in speed, he makes up for with his positioning and distribution. We have 3 'wasps' to choose from, that can buzz about, and break down play and intercept. Smith, Oneil and Brownhill. Some fantastic young players to play wide midfield and give lots of energy, options, movement and high pressing. Thay can all score goals and feed off the other players. Leko, Eliasson, Patterson, Odowda...lots of energy in that lot. Two 'Big men' in the middle to choose from....Diedieu holds the ball well, and bullies defenders. Đurić the same and good with his head. Both link well and give time. Woodrow offers a bit of both by the look of it. Then you have Reid and Taylor who link up between the forwards and midfield and can score, link play and feed off balls into and around the box. I can see a lot of balls being whipped into the box, and players really attacking that 18 yard box. Then you have the lads out on loan that can come back and hopefully give extra competition. My only concern is a lack of a CDM player who's a leader and boss, who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck, and out bully the opposition CM when needed. Pack needs competition as well. The team looks a lot more balanced imo. Hopefully we are going to see some exciting football this season.
Bristol Rob Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 It would be interesting to see the squad he inherited and to weigh that up against the squad He has today. Not sure we are stronger in all departments.
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 35 minutes ago, Super said: Time to see sime results. He has been backed enough no excuses. Out of interest, what would you class as acceptable results in this League in the short-mid term? More specifically, this season. Personally, I would be reasonably happy with some decent football, midtable, some good scalps- and maybe we can extend our Cup run or get one in the FA Cup.
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: It would be interesting to see the squad he inherited and to weigh that up against the squad He has today. Not sure we are stronger in all departments. I'd say we're only weaker upfront, but when we had Kodjia that was going to be hard to match at this point, we had Tammy so its not as if LJ can't bring in the quality.
Guest WestfieldRed Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Top half finish, but I think Flint may go in January as the struggling Prem clubs start to panic.
Super Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Out of interest, what would you class as acceptable results in this League in the short-mid term? More specifically, this season. Personally, I would be reasonably happy with some decent football, midtable, some good scalps- and maybe we can extend our Cup run or get one in the FA Cup. Not really bothered about cups but mid table finish is the least we should expect.
Kid in the Riot Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said: Josh Brownhill Adam Matthews Gary O'Neil Lee Tomin Diego De Girolamo Hörður Magnússon Callum O'Dowda Ivan Lucic Taylor Moore Jamie Paterson Tammy Abraham Gustav Engvall Joel Ekstrand Milan Đurić Jens Hegeler Fabian Giefer Bailey Wright Matty Taylor David Cotterill Freddie Hinds Famara Diedhiou Eros Pisano Nathan Baker Niclas Eliasson Cauley Woodrow Jonathan Leko Luke Steele Excluding many of u23 signings that haven't featured. 27 senior signings 3 x GK 7 x DEF 10 x MID 7 x FWD 6, mostly loans, no longer with us.
Show Me The Money! Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: He definitely has brought in the players to play the way he said he would. As you say...it's full of movement, quick interlinking passing, high pressing and faster tempo, people who can now take on a player, dribble and players that can cross. We can play with width or narrow. Expansive or Limit the space. We have many options. The team now excites me. It does look very offensive. We have two decent keepers now. Fielding seems to have settled down it seems. Less erratic. We have a plethora of decent CB's who are steady as a Rock. Baker, Wright, Magners, Flint, Hegeler....all have their certain attributes and strengths. Our Fullbacks almost play like wingbacks. They give width and can all cross a ball. Pisano, Bryan, Vyner, Kelly...all have been impressive, especially going forward. Pack in the CM gives some calmness, pick a pass and has a great eye. What he lacks in speed, he makes up for with his positioning and distribution. We have 3 'wasps' to choose from, that can buzz about, and break down play and intercept. Smith, Oneil and Brownhill. Some fantastic young players to play wide midfield and give lots of energy, options, movement and high pressing. Thay can all score goals and feed off the other players. Leko, Eliasson, Patterson, Odowda...lots of energy in that lot. Two 'Big men' in the middle to choose from....Diedieu holds the ball well, and bullies defenders. Đurić the same and good with his head. Both link well and give time. Woodrow offers a bit of both by the look of it. Then you have Reid and Taylor who link up between the forwards and midfield and can score, link play and feed off balls into and around the box. I can see a lot of balls being whipped into the box, and players really attacking that 18 yard box. Then you have the lads out on loan that can come back and hopefully give extra competition. My only concern is a lack of a CDM player who's a leader and boss, who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck, and out bully the opposition CM when needed. Pack needs competition as well. The team looks a lot more balanced imo. Hopefully we are going to see some exciting football this season. I agree with a lot of what you say. Only thing I'd add on the games I saw last season and on seeing the Villa game so far is that we need to learn to be able to keep the ball better allowing us more chance to control games. The Fulham home game last season sticks in my memory of a lesson in keeping possession and controlling the game. We need to be able to do that better and more consistently
Guest john shaw number 1 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Talk is cheap let's wait until Xmas and see, the games I have seen so far not impressed, I know I will be not be very popular but Lee is not the way forward, in this league you need a few experience players who know the championship and that is the players we should be singing
Alessandro Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Defensively we look as strong on paper as we have done for many many years. Yes, it's been a high turnover of players, a lot have come in, but I think it is very important to remember that all players bought fit into different categories. Some will come straight into the first team for the long term. Some will be developed for a few years. Some were bought because they were the 'best available' at the time when a gap needed filling (i.e Golbourne), and soon become surplus to requirements. That is pretty normal in football. Expect turnover. The core of the squad, however, is there. IMO we are getting to the point that if we can keep this core unified and together, and with a few upgrades here and there, we have a squad on paper to go do something interesting in this league.
And Its Smith Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 We are clearly progressing but I'm baffled by the lack of quality in depth in midfield not being addressed.
spudski Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 37 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said: I agree with a lot of what you say. Only thing I'd add on the games I saw last season and on seeing the Villa game so far is that we need to learn to be able to keep the ball better allowing us more chance to control games. The Fulham home game last season sticks in my memory of a lesson in keeping possession and controlling the game. We need to be able to do that better and more consistently Hence my comments about that DCM mate ;-)
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Super said: Not really bothered about cups but mid table finish is the least we should expect. Hmm, will wait for budgets and wage bills to come out first. Midtable is the most realistic I think, but time will tell. @Show Me The Money! You mean Fulham at home in Feb? We played a 4-4-2 that day and that formation in terms of bossing possession and controlling the game isn't really ideal. In a way a game can be controlled or a flow of it without much possession but 4-4-2 does not help with this IMO. We were up against a team in form, near top 6 playing a fluid 4-2-3-1...that setup is always going to lose the possession, let alone the control via possession in those circs.
And Its Smith Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Hmm, will wait for budgets and wage bills to come out first. Midtable is the most realistic I think, but time will tell. @Show Me The Money! You mean Fulham at home in Feb? We played a 4-4-2 that day and that formation in terms of bossing possession and controlling the game isn't really ideal. In a way a game can be controlled or a flow of it without much possession but 4-4-2 does not help with this IMO. We were up against a team in form, near top 6 playing a fluid 4-2-3-1...that setup is always going to lose the possession, let alone the control via possession in those circs. That was the single most stupid thing Johnson did last season. I remember seeing the team and being baffled and then watching the game unfold as it was obvious it was. I hope he learned from it but worrying he did it in the first place
Abraham Romanovich Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Reading this thread in my view is all rather depressing, a lot of people seem to view a mid table finish as satisfactory. Brighton went from virtual relegation to play offs then promotion as soon as they appointed Chris Hughton - look at Cardiff now flying under Warnock . Exactly when do people think a promotion push is viable we are not some tin pot club punching above our weight,we have the fan base, stadium and infrastructure and to to accept mediocrity as it's an improvement on a relegation struggle is not acceptable as an objective. A play off place as a minimum should be our aim
Davefevs Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, spudski said: He definitely has brought in the players to play the way he said he would. As you say...it's full of movement, quick interlinking passing, high pressing and faster tempo, people who can now take on a player, dribble and players that can cross. We can play with width or narrow. Expansive or Limit the space. We have many options. The team now excites me. It does look very offensive. We have two decent keepers now. Fielding seems to have settled down it seems. Less erratic. We have a plethora of decent CB's who are steady as a Rock. Baker, Wright, Magners, Flint, Hegeler....all have their certain attributes and strengths. Our Fullbacks almost play like wingbacks. They give width and can all cross a ball. Pisano, Bryan, Vyner, Kelly...all have been impressive, especially going forward. Pack in the CM gives some calmness, pick a pass and has a great eye. What he lacks in speed, he makes up for with his positioning and distribution. We have 3 'wasps' to choose from, that can buzz about, and break down play and intercept. Smith, Oneil and Brownhill. Some fantastic young players to play wide midfield and give lots of energy, options, movement and high pressing. Thay can all score goals and feed off the other players. Leko, Eliasson, Patterson, Odowda...lots of energy in that lot. Two 'Big men' in the middle to choose from....Diedieu holds the ball well, and bullies defenders. Đurić the same and good with his head. Both link well and give time. Woodrow offers a bit of both by the look of it. Then you have Reid and Taylor who link up between the forwards and midfield and can score, link play and feed off balls into and around the box. I can see a lot of balls being whipped into the box, and players really attacking that 18 yard box. Then you have the lads out on loan that can come back and hopefully give extra competition. My only concern is a lack of a CDM player who's a leader and boss, who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck, and out bully the opposition CM when needed. Pack needs competition as well. The team looks a lot more balanced imo. Hopefully we are going to see some exciting football this season. Very positive review Spud!! We have a squad that is capable of being mid-table no probs. What will stop us achieving that and pushing on? Imho, that extra bit of quality, the player who is better than the rest, who on his day does that bit extra that get you the 3 points or rescues you 1. I'm certainly not referring to Tomlin. I'm talking about a Cairney, a Diame, that type of player. They cost too much nor are they realistic. So we have to keep following our approach and hope we unearth one.
Mr Popodopolous Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, RedDave said: That was the single most stupid thing Johnson did last season. I remember seeing the team and being baffled and then watching the game unfold as it was obvious it was. I hope he learned from it but worrying he did it in the first place It was baffling tbh, wasn't it? Predictable too as you say. @Abraham Romanovich Yes we have the fan base, stadium, infrastructure to challenge...but so do many teams at this level. Moreover many sides at this level have had it for longer! I see 19k gates for us last year...and raise you Derby's 29k for example. All in all, I think at this time midtable would be about par. I know attendances are not the be all and the end all but midtable is about par with our current fanbase, infrastructure, stadium IMO.
RidgeRed Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 The last of the long awaited 3 windows now closed. I think the September games, a tough run that includes Stoke in the cup, will tell us how effective the recruitment has been. Our performances so far this season indicate, to me, a finish around 15th. If we collect 6 or more points during this testing month I'll begin to think LJ has got it right.
Silvio Dante Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, spudski said: He definitely has brought in the players to play the way he said he would. As you say...it's full of movement, quick interlinking passing, high pressing and faster tempo, people who can now take on a player, dribble and players that can cross. We can play with width or narrow. Expansive or Limit the space. We have many options. The team now excites me. It does look very offensive. We have two decent keepers now. Fielding seems to have settled down it seems. Less erratic. We have a plethora of decent CB's who are steady as a Rock. Baker, Wright, Magners, Flint, Hegeler....all have their certain attributes and strengths. Our Fullbacks almost play like wingbacks. They give width and can all cross a ball. Pisano, Bryan, Vyner, Kelly...all have been impressive, especially going forward. Pack in the CM gives some calmness, pick a pass and has a great eye. What he lacks in speed, he makes up for with his positioning and distribution. We have 3 'wasps' to choose from, that can buzz about, and break down play and intercept. Smith, Oneil and Brownhill. Some fantastic young players to play wide midfield and give lots of energy, options, movement and high pressing. Thay can all score goals and feed off the other players. Leko, Eliasson, Patterson, Odowda...lots of energy in that lot. Two 'Big men' in the middle to choose from....Diedieu holds the ball well, and bullies defenders. Đurić the same and good with his head. Both link well and give time. Woodrow offers a bit of both by the look of it. Then you have Reid and Taylor who link up between the forwards and midfield and can score, link play and feed off balls into and around the box. I can see a lot of balls being whipped into the box, and players really attacking that 18 yard box. Then you have the lads out on loan that can come back and hopefully give extra competition. My only concern is a lack of a CDM player who's a leader and boss, who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck, and out bully the opposition CM when needed. Pack needs competition as well. The team looks a lot more balanced imo. Hopefully we are going to see some exciting football this season. Exactly what I was going to say Spud but I only had 10 minutes
downendcity Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, john shaw number 1 said: Talk is cheap let's wait until Xmas and see, the games I have seen so far not impressed, I know I will be not be very popular but Lee is not the way forward, in this league you need a few experience players who know the championship and that is the players we should be singing Bryan, Flint, Fielding, O'Brien, Baker and Wright are all experienced and know the championship. Pissano is very experienced and knows series A.
MC RISK77 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Very very pleased with the depth of our squad now with some real quality in all positions. big well done to Lj as I genuinely feel this is a very competitive championship squad..mid table comfortably for me
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Abraham Romanovich said: Reading this thread in my view is all rather depressing, a lot of people seem to view a mid table finish as satisfactory. Brighton went from virtual relegation to play offs then promotion as soon as they appointed Chris Hughton - look at Cardiff now flying under Warnock . Exactly when do people think a promotion push is viable we are not some tin pot club punching above our weight,we have the fan base, stadium and infrastructure and to to accept mediocrity as it's an improvement on a relegation struggle is not acceptable as an objective. A play off place as a minimum should be our aim And for me this is the problem for a lot of our fans, just because some have done it doesn't mean we should be expected to. We've fought relegation for the last 2 seasons, why shouldn't finishing mid table be satisfactory? We're talking satisfactory here, not great, exceptional etc, satisfactory which is certainly would be.
Guest john shaw number 1 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 23 minutes ago, downendcity said: Bryan, Flint, Fielding, O'Brien, Baker and Wright are all experienced and know the championship. Pissano is very experienced and knows series A. Like I said let's wait till Christmas and see
downendcity Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 18 minutes ago, john shaw number 1 said: Like I said let's wait till Christmas and see Endorsing Spudski's post as I think we have a stronger squad and also think we have a team better able to compete at this level. What we could do with is a Paul Hartley type player, able to control and dictate play in the centre of midfield.
Negan Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: 27 senior signings 3 x GK 7 x DEF 10 x MID 7 x FWD 6, mostly loans, no longer with us. Mental when you think how many players he's brought in. It will take another 25 players and we might have a team full of his signings. Glad its steves money and not mine!
JoeAman08 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: 27 senior signings 3 x GK 7 x DEF 10 x MID 7 x FWD 6, mostly loans, no longer with us. Stretching the senior signings a bit aren't you? Moore, De Girolamo, Hinds, and Lucic can be taken off of there. So we are down to 23 with 7 being loans. 16 permanent signings over 3 windows to a squad that was quite bare with some of those fringe players leaving. Don't think it's that bad. Think lessons learned from first window as well by buying too young and not ready for championship. Look at last summer to this one, on paper, a higher quality player has come in. Think the club and LJ are showing signs of getting better
Guest Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, john shaw number 1 said: Talk is cheap let's wait until Xmas and see, the games I have seen so far not impressed, I know I will be not be very popular but Lee is not the way forward, in this league you need a few experience players who know the championship and that is the players we should be singing Millions spent on players he doesn`t play/are "injured"/ or are "for the future", 5m spent on a forward who so far, is no better than Wilbs or the forward loaned to his dad imo. We will see and before xmas, by when, many will be giving him the next window to "fine tune things". I think he is spending money on random players just for the sake of it......because he can, and just like his dad did at the end. It didn't save him and it wont save LJ at the end.........but YEP could be wrong...we WILL see.
Kid in the Riot Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: Stretching the senior signings a bit aren't you? Moore, De Girolamo, Hinds, and Lucic can be taken off of there. So we are down to 23 with 7 being loans. 16 permanent signings over 3 windows to a squad that was quite bare with some of those fringe players leaving. Don't think it's that bad. Think lessons learned from first window as well by buying too young and not ready for championship. Look at last summer to this one, on paper, a higher quality player has come in. Think the club and LJ are showing signs of getting better Think the jury is very much out on those last two lines, Joe. Moore and Lucic were signed for the first team squad IMO.
Fordy62 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 The squad is certainy better than it was under Cotts, but then it's not really a fair comparison when one was pushed and the other given free reign on the cheque book like no other has ever seen a fraction of. There's never been anything like it in the history of the club. A million pound signing here or there sure, but dozens of them? Unbelievable really. I think the squad lacks the harmony it had under Cotts, we need one of those managers who really unites the squad and brings the best out of them, arguably like Nigel Clough is doing at Burton or how Ranieri made Leicester... where the squad is greater than the sum of its parts. Right now, I don't think we have that. Imagine how good this squad could be if we overperformed like some managers are able to do. Time will tell, but LJ now has his squad. It's time to perform.
Super Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, MC RISK77 said: Very very pleased with the depth of our squad now with some real quality in all positions. big well done to Lj as I genuinely feel this is a very competitive championship squad..mid table comfortably for me We have quantity but do we have real quality?
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Fordy62 said: The squad is certainy better than it was under Cotts, but then it's not really a fair comparison when one was pushed and the other given free reign on the cheque book like no other has ever seen a fraction of. There's never been anything like it in the history of the club. A million pound signing here or there sure, but dozens of them? Unbelievable really. I think the squad lacks the harmony it had under Cotts, we need one of those managers who really unites the squad and brings the best out of them, arguably like Nigel Clough is doing at Burton or how Ranieri made Leicester... where the squad is greater than the sum of its parts. Right now, I don't think we have that. Imagine how good this squad could be if we overperformed like some managers are able to do. Time will tell, but LJ now has his squad. It's time to perform. We've never been in such a strong financial position that has allowed us to spend like we have either so you can't compare his spending to other managers on that front either.
Abraham Romanovich Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, hodge said: And for me this is the problem for a lot of our fans, just because some have done it doesn't mean we should be expected to. We've fought relegation for the last 2 seasons, why shouldn't finishing mid table be satisfactory? We're talking satisfactory here, not great, exceptional etc, satisfactory which is certainly would be. My problem with this line of logic is that I don't believe if we had a competent manager we should have been in a relegation scrap. Now we have given the manager the tools he said he needed, time to judge if he is up to the task. I want LJ to do well but if the height of our ambition is to achieve a mid table finish in the Championship we really do need to ask some serious questions about our manager.
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said: My problem with this line of logic is that I don't believe if we had a competent manager we should have been in a relegation scrap. Now we have given the manager the tools he said he needed, time to judge if he is up to the task. I want LJ to do well but if the height of our ambition is to achieve a mid table finish in the Championship we really do need to ask some serious questions about our manager. We're not though, we're talking about a satisfactory season
JoeAman08 Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: Think the jury is very much out on those last two lines, Joe. Moore and Lucic were signed for the first team squad IMO. I'd probably give you Moore. When Lucic signed we had ROD as our number 1 and FF as the number 2. I do believe the club brought too many young players in at once last summer. Think LJ takes some blame but that's a club choice from SL as well. Can see this summer trying to sign more established players so improvement from the club for me. I know people get annoyed with loans like Moore but we spent the money and now need to do what's best for the players at the time. I also think January's window we were fed a little BS. Bringing forward a window is what was said. I see some panic buys in there albeit reasonable deals on most. Hopefully learned from that. I get you probably have more inside knowledge of the club and LJ but do think he gets too much stick at times. Think he does good work too though. Transfers I am not sure are all up to him. I know he gets final say but think most of us would've said yes to the same players if asked. If you look at LJs tenure as a whole it's quite mediocre but I don't think we've had exceptional talent either.
Negan Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Steve cotterill said in his first interview "give me the tools and I'll win the league". He did. Johnsons tool bag is now overflowing. I don't expect a league title but a mid table finish at the very least! He has NO excuses this year.
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 13 minutes ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said: Steve cotterill said in his first interview "give me the tools and I'll win the league". He did. Johnsons tool bag is now overflowing. I don't expect a league title but a mid table finish at the very least! He has NO excuses this year. Not hard when we barely had to spend anything to win it and the standard of teams we were against, don't get me wrong Cotts recruitment was excellent just that league is a joke.
CyderInACan Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said: Johnsons tool bag is now overflowing. I don't expect a league title but a mid table finish at the very least! He has NO excuses this year. In the context of this 3rd season back in the championship, isn't mid table a success? A big one, too. Not just (shay) given the last 2 seasons but our overall history? Success, in the short term is surely staying in this League (the best/3rd best/5th best etc depending on who ever you choose to reference) and us enjoying it? I'm sure in the medium to long term the plan is premiership (as LJ said in his most recent interview, the world's "elite league") but during the meanwhilst isn't it ok to just hope we can enjoy a few seasons of continued membership of this league at varying, hopefully, non-threatening mid-table positions, whilst establishing a brand of football that we can all enjoy?
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 38 minutes ago, hodge said: Not hard when we barely had to spend anything to win it and the standard of teams we were against, don't get me wrong Cotts recruitment was excellent just that league is a joke. So much of a joke - we'd not won it for a lifetime , and a league we take , on average 8 years to escape !! Dont underestimate what he did Winning any division isn't 'easy'
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: So much of a joke - we'd not won it for a lifetime , and a league we take , on average 8 years to escape !! Dont underestimate what he did Winning any division isn't 'easy' As said previously full credit goes to Cotts for that season, recruitment was excellent, but the only two other good teams in that league were Preston and MK, we outspent every team in the league by a long way (despite the fact we covered our spending with Baldock) and basically assembled a league 1 all star team. It would have been bad if we hadn't won the league.
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, hodge said: As said previously full credit goes to Cotts for that season, recruitment was excellent, but the only two other good teams in that league were Preston and MK, we outspent every team in the league by a long way (despite the fact we covered our spending with Baldock) and basically assembled a league 1 all star team. It would have been bad if we hadn't won the league. Sort of get what you're saying but I think in retrospect it appears that way now , looking back how we stormed the league But League One all star team ? Not sure Derrick Williams , Wilbs , Agard , Flint just to name four would have been seen as a All Star team when the season commenced Still maintain to win a league is quite an achievement and to do it with style certainly is There are plenty of Clubs at all levels that have spent lots of money but failed to make a side
Lrrr Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Sort of get what you're saying but I think in retrospect it appears that way now , looking back how we stormed the league But League One all star team ? Not sure Derrick Williams , Wilbs , Agard , Flint just to name four would have been seen as a All Star team when the season commenced Still maintain to win a league is quite an achievement and to do it with style certainly is Wilbs came from the Premier league and think any club in the league would have loved to have him, Agard scored 26 for Rotherham on the wing. No doubt it is an achievement and he backed up what he said he would do, I just don't think it was the hardest league in terms of quality to do it in.
Guest Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 9 hours ago, Thatch35 said: Overflowing with unproven or bang average players costing millions and millons. He has indeed spent a lot of someone elses money on many unproven players, not liking that description he prefers "young talent or ones for the future" whilst preferring to develop them elsewhere also. Meanwhile his 5mil man has yet to prove his worth, imo he should also have kept Wilbs and given Engval and Hinds match time at this club from the bench, thus saving SL 5m Talking of bang average players are Taylor and Đurić actually still here and why exactly did we buy them? lets be far neither are likely to figure in LJ`s revised plans.
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 First window stuck to his guns on bringing in young hungry players mixed with experience. IMO didn't strengthen the positions we needed and some signings on paper were brilliant (Tomlin, Mathews and O'Neil) just didn't perform as they had done previously. Second window, panic buying strikers and again didn't really strengthen the areas we needed e.g wingers especially after Freeman leaving. Third window, on paper couldn't do much better, strengthened the GK position, cover at the back for injuries/suspensions and if one gets sold, midfield seems strong (quality wise) enough to compete and we've finally got exciting wingers to watch! Up top, got the depth and might need my tin hat but I don't care if we don't have a 20+ or even 10+ goal man if we win games and like our play off final season our top scorer finishes with 8 goals you wouldn't find many (I know it's OTIB) complaining.
Phileas Fogg Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 28 minutes ago, glos old boy said: He has indeed spent a lot of someone elses money on many unproven players, not liking that description he prefers "young talent or ones for the future" whilst preferring to develop them elsewhere also. Not so much this window, we almost exclusively bought for the first team squad 28 minutes ago, glos old boy said: Meanwhile his 5mil man has yet to prove his worth, Give him a chance 28 minutes ago, glos old boy said: imo he should also have kept Wilbs Can't keep him against his will 28 minutes ago, glos old boy said: and given Engval and Hinds match time at this club from the bench, thus saving SL 5m Engvall clearly happier back in Sweden and Hinds will benefit from first team football on loan - far too soon to write Diedhiou off who's done fine imo 28 minutes ago, glos old boy said: Talking of bang average players are Taylor and Đurić actually still here and why exactly did we buy them? lets be far neither are likely to figure in LJ`s revised plans. Both are good players - concerned about Đurić's injury issues. Both would feature if fit I think.
old_eastender Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 13 hours ago, Fordy62 said: The squad is certainy better than it was under Cotts, but then it's not really a fair comparison when one was pushed and the other given free reign on the cheque book like no other has ever seen a fraction of. There's never been anything like it in the history of the club. A million pound signing here or there sure, but dozens of them? Unbelievable really. I think the squad lacks the harmony it had under Cotts, we need one of those managers who really unites the squad and brings the best out of them, arguably like Nigel Clough is doing at Burton or how Ranieri made Leicester... where the squad is greater than the sum of its parts. Right now, I don't think we have that. Imagine how good this squad could be if we overperformed like some managers are able to do. Time will tell, but LJ now has his squad. It's time to perform. Totally agree... no excuses for LJ now, if we end up in another relegation scrap then it will show he is never going to make a good manager.
BCFC Rich Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, glos old boy said: Meanwhile his 5mil man has yet to prove his worth, imo he should also have kept Wilbs and given Engval and Hinds match time at this club from the bench, thus saving SL 5m Its sounds like you would have patiently watched Engval and Hinds develop for up to five games.
ThreeWordCityNerd Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said: Steve cotterill said in his first interview "give me the tools and I'll win the league". He did.
Floatn Over Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Totally agree... no excuses for LJ now, if we end up in another relegation scrap then it will show he is never going to make a good manager. I feel there are positive aspects to all of the recent signings tbf so tend to agree LJ now has the tools he wanted in his bag and has been backed thus a far more respectable finish this season will be the test. Too early to judge FD (I think he's done OK) Matty T has had to contend with an odd introduction (cross city move into a relegation scrap then injury) Đurić is a worry, perhaps he was signed with a niggle that wouldn't go away, I'll judge him when fully fit (don't forget one of our best ever strikers John Galley was signed on crutches) as to Gustav that's a real puzzler and probably more to that scenario than divulged. All we can do now is buckle up and hope for a better "flight" than the last couple.
Natchfever Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 12 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: So much of a joke - we'd not won it for a lifetime , and a league we take , on average 8 years to escape !! Dont underestimate what he did Winning any division isn't 'easy' Yep GJ came up in second place to Scunthorpe didn't he? Not easy at all.
Lanterne Rouge Posted September 2, 2017 Posted September 2, 2017 2 hours ago, RichardEdd said: Its sounds like you would have patiently watched Engval and Hinds develop for up to five games. He wouldn`t mate. Remember he`s `done with the club while LJ`s here`. No agenda there at all.
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