spudski Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 ....not seen it mentioned on here before, but what a great way of making the percentages of winning the first ball from a GK more in your favour. Usually you see a GK sent down the middle and made a 50-50 ball, but the big CB winner the header....and a mad rush to win the second ball. Loving the use of Flint at GK's. Two of our defenders stand either side of the 18 yard box, drawing two opposition players, creating space. Flint out by the half way line next to the touchline. Keeper kicks in his direction, creating an angle for Flint to attack and win the header towards both our forwards. It's been used for quiet a few games now...each time I've thought to myself, if I was the opposition manager, how would I counteract this. It's going to be interesting to see who comes up with a cunning plan to counter act. I do like this about LJ....he's not scared of trying something outside of the box.
Kezman Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Noticed this last night, it was refreshing to see and clearly something that had been practiced plenty of times at Failand. Very effective, and set up a good platform for us to attack from. Also, how beastly was Flinty's header to release Matty clear for the first goal. Was absolutely quality, pin point accurate 'through ball' header. He really is a class act, who shows nothing but 100% commitment for the cause.
Welcome To The Jungle Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, spudski said: ....not seen it mentioned on here before, but what a great way of making the percentages of winning the first ball from a GK more in your favour. Usually you see a GK sent down the middle and made a 50-50 ball, but the big CB winner the header....and a mad rush to win the second ball. Loving the use of Flint at GK's. Two of our defenders stand either side of the 18 yard box, drawing two opposition players, creating space. Flint out by the half way line next to the touchline. Keeper kicks in his direction, creating an angle for Flint to attack and win the header towards both our forwards. It's been used for quiet a few games now...each time I've thought to myself, if I was the opposition manager, how would I counteract this. It's going to be interesting to see who comes up with a cunning plan to counter act. I do like this about LJ....he's not scared of trying something outside of the box. Well the laws of the game dictate that the ball must leave the box from goalkicks or indeed any direct freekick in the penalty area.
Fat Cigar Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 I thought you were referring to getting Flint to take goal kicks. Anyone think that someone else may need to take over kicking duty from Fielding? Noticed Reading doing it last season. Fielding's having an amazing season, but it's quite funny how bad his goal kicks are.
Admin Phantom Posted September 20, 2017 Admin Posted September 20, 2017 I always thought it was FF's poor kicking, but after last night it highlighted that this is obviously a pre-meditated tactic
Super Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 It was done a few times against Derby as well.
Meh Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Don't want to pee on the main point of your post but kinda related - it is not just this change - the team have obviously been working on lots of various situations. We saw 2 corners last night straight off the training ground. The first was a pass to the edge of the box for one player (not sure who) who then dummies and let it go passed him to an on-rushing Brownhill to shoot The second was a run by the main attackers at corners e.g. Flint, Hegeler, Diedhiou to the front post but the ball went deep to Maggers who had back-peddled whilst his marker got drawn to the front post runners and gave him a free header albeit a difficult angle. Both were decent chances and could have finished in the net on another day.
Carey 6 Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, Fat Cigar said: I thought you were referring to getting Flint to take goal kicks. Anyone think that someone else may need to take over kicking duty from Fielding? Noticed Reading doing it last season. Fielding's having an amazing season, but it's quite funny how bad his goal kicks are. Fieldings distribution accuracy is in line with the average of the league now I believe. Only a sample of 8 games to go from but still not as bad as made out to be. He could be a lot worse, Cardiff's Neil Etheridge has 28% accuracy.
Silvio Dante Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, spudski said: ....not seen it mentioned on here before, but what a great way of making the percentages of winning the first ball from a GK more in your favour. Usually you see a GK sent down the middle and made a 50-50 ball, but the big CB winner the header....and a mad rush to win the second ball. Loving the use of Flint at GK's. Two of our defenders stand either side of the 18 yard box, drawing two opposition players, creating space. Flint out by the half way line next to the touchline. Keeper kicks in his direction, creating an angle for Flint to attack and win the header towards both our forwards. It's been used for quiet a few games now...each time I've thought to myself, if I was the opposition manager, how would I counteract this. It's going to be interesting to see who comes up with a cunning plan to counter act. I do like this about LJ....he's not scared of trying something outside of the box. Noticed this on the Derby game and was shocked that they let us keep doing it. That was playing against an experienced side and the obvious counter would have been Huddlestones starting position being on their l-hand edge of the centre circle, which would have given him enough time to get to AF to make a challenge, or readjust if we did a straight kick. That they didn't really attempt to counter was what threw me - assumedly saw and were playing for second ball. Other point is it works because Bailey Wright/Zac Vyner (two natural centre halves) have been RB. When Flint goes out, they drop to CH and make the cover. Means if things do go wrong, we have people in the natural position to fix it. Looks a low risk, potentially high reward tactic though.
spudski Posted September 20, 2017 Author Posted September 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: What we are doing with the GKs is not easy for anyone. Slightly overhit and it is a throw. Having put Flint on the touchline adds a bit extra to the margin of error, but still not an easy one. However, Steele was better at managing it that Frankie has been. FF generally over hits them or trys to put it on top of Flints noggin. Steele aimed slightly more infield, which gave Flint the opportunity to run, leap and attack the ball. It's a great tactic imo.
Fat Cigar Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, phantom said: I always thought it was FF's poor kicking, but after last night it highlighted that this is obviously a pre-meditated tactic Ah, I've misinterpreted what you're all saying. I wasn't there last night, but this would explain what Fielding's trying to do.
robin_unreliant Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Not sure if I have misinterpreted this as I wasn't at the game (on a beach in Crete all week!). Haven't we doing this for at least a season? It was usually JB stood near the left touchline and FF trying to put it on his head every time. Frankie gets a lot of stick for his distribution but it looked pretty obvious he was instructed to do this. Gives away throw-ins when it doesn't come off but,as said, is low risk as when we lose the ball as it can't lead to a break down the middle. Maybe they decided AF was likely to get on the end of more than JB. Essentially nothing new though surely?
Jack Dawe Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 What about our "shape" when the ball is won by the opposition? There was at least one where Flint won the header but Stoke almost immediately won the ball and were then running at our defence, which Flint was absent from (I'm sure someone else was covering, but didn't see at the time).
Bazooka Joe Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Neo said: Don't want to pee on the main point of your post but kinda related - it is not just this change - the team have obviously been working on lots of various situations. We saw 2 corners last night straight off the training ground. The first was a pass to the edge of the box for one player (not sure who) who then dummies and let it go passed him to an on-rushing Brownhill to shoot The second was a run by the main attackers at corners e.g. Flint, Hegeler, Diedhiou to the front post but the ball went deep to Maggers who had back-peddled whilst his marker got drawn to the front post runners and gave him a free header albeit a difficult angle. Both were decent chances and could have finished in the net on another day. Agree with you - both seemed well-rehearsed and were well-executed, though without a score at the end. Hopefully we have plenty more of those in our locker, cos with some of those routines you can only try them once.
Meh Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Agree with you - both seemed well-rehearsed and were well-executed, though without a score at the end. Hopefully we have plenty more of those in our locker, cos with some of those routines you can only try them once. You certainly can't try them frequently but I would imagine the due diligence carried out by other teams only extend to watching videos of last couple of games? Maybe that extends to snippets of previous set pieces as well though - dunno ?!
BobBobSuperBob Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Neo said: You certainly can't try them frequently but I would imagine the due diligence carried out by other teams only extend to watching videos of last couple of games? Maybe that extends to snippets of previous set pieces as well though - dunno ?! I bet the analysts now with everything available will clip every set piece used by opposition Clubs ( Most Clubs have, in my experience , pre analysts have wanted set piece information as one of the priorities )
Lrrr Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 Noted it yesterday, very inventive. Although we usually have Joe Bryan on the pitch who wins most of his headers so really it's just using the best player we had available.
wendyredredrobin Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 It's a good tactic to use from time to timr to confuse the opposition, especially when we have 3 centre halves in the team.
Chivs Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Fat Cigar said: I thought you were referring to getting Flint to take goal kicks. Anyone think that someone else may need to take over kicking duty from Fielding? Noticed Reading doing it last season. Fielding's having an amazing season, but it's quite funny how bad his goal kicks are. It's a nice idea. But Flint lacks for pace. I can't see him taking the GK and getting on the end of it.
citywest30 Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Neo said: Don't want to pee on the main point of your post but kinda related - it is not just this change - the team have obviously been working on lots of various situations. We saw 2 corners last night straight off the training ground. The first was a pass to the edge of the box for one player (not sure who) who then dummies and let it go passed him to an on-rushing Brownhill to shoot The second was a run by the main attackers at corners e.g. Flint, Hegeler, Diedhiou to the front post but the ball went deep to Maggers who had back-peddled whilst his marker got drawn to the front post runners and gave him a free header albeit a difficult angle. Both were decent chances and could have finished in the net on another day. They also had a corner against Derby where it looked like neither Flint nor Baker were going up for it then at the last second they ran from around the centre circle and two dropped back to cover. Again looked like it was straight off the training ground and presumably the idea being they can attack without being picked up by a specific defender. All these tactics point to an astute manager willing to try new things. I like it and look forward to seeing what else they've come up with.
GrahamC Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said: What about our "shape" when the ball is won by the opposition? There was at least one where Flint won the header but Stoke almost immediately won the ball and were then running at our defence, which Flint was absent from (I'm sure someone else was covering, but didn't see at the time). Against Derby Bailey Wright filled in and being a natural CB, there was no obvious difference. Stoke did get wise to it, as Charlie Adam blatantly body checked Flint on a couple of occasions in the second half to try to stop it working.
kanemochi Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said: Not sure if I have misinterpreted this as I wasn't at the game (on a beach in Crete all week!). Haven't we doing this for at least a season? It was usually JB stood near the left touchline and FF trying to put it on his head every time. Frankie gets a lot of stick for his distribution but it looked pretty obvious he was instructed to do this. Gives away throw-ins when it doesn't come off but,as said, is low risk as when we lose the ball as it can't lead to a break down the middle. Maybe they decided AF was likely to get on the end of more than JB. Essentially nothing new though surely? Pretty sure we were doing this under cotts as well with JB using his ability to out jump the opposition and flick on to the strikers/overlapping wing back.
The Humble Realist Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 My guess is its linked to this...the guy is huge on set pieces...makes a lot of sense as long as flint being out of position doesn't lead to us conceding goals if he doesn't win header etc... On balance probably a decent strategy ..especially at home
You Do The Dziekanowski Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Kezman said: Noticed this last night, it was refreshing to see and clearly something that had been practiced plenty of times at Failand. Very effective, and set up a good platform for us to attack from. Also, how beastly was Flinty's header to release Matty clear for the first goal. Was absolutely quality, pin point accurate 'through ball' header. He really is a class act, who shows nothing but 100% commitment for the cause. I was saying to my brother moments before how calm Stoke were at nodding it down to the other centre half instead of back into danger and mind you I would expect that if I was paying £15m for CB then Flint executes a perfectly weighted through ball to release Matty... not bad for 300k...
JoeAman08 Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 This started at Reading away. It was mentioned after the game by a few. It's an interesting tactic but I've not seen it come to anything. There must be a reason for it. Think on the day of Reading it was assumed with Flint flicking it on, it sets up our press to start deeper in their half whereas would be around halfway line on a normal GK. Another reason was that they tend to be 50/50 balls. With Flint there a better chance of pinning them deep.
Red-Robbo Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 6 hours ago, spudski said: ....not seen it mentioned on here before, but what a great way of making the percentages of winning the first ball from a GK more in your favour. Usually you see a GK sent down the middle and made a 50-50 ball, but the big CB winner the header....and a mad rush to win the second ball. Loving the use of Flint at GK's. Two of our defenders stand either side of the 18 yard box, drawing two opposition players, creating space. Flint out by the half way line next to the touchline. Keeper kicks in his direction, creating an angle for Flint to attack and win the header towards both our forwards. It's been used for quiet a few games now...each time I've thought to myself, if I was the opposition manager, how would I counteract this. It's going to be interesting to see who comes up with a cunning plan to counter act. I do like this about LJ....he's not scared of trying something outside of the box. No, that's not what happens at all, Spud. Korey Smith is the target man with the lethal goal-scoring reflexes. Opposition teams should concentrate on trying to negate his threat in the box. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Loose lips sink ships
Tipps69 Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 I've looked on otib god knows how many times throughout the day & read the thread title as Flint being played as Goalkeeper & had been wondering how I've not heard about Flint being tried out in goal!! GK to me has always meant Goal Keeper not Goal Kicks.
Donkeeebles Posted September 20, 2017 Posted September 20, 2017 I'm not convinced the reward is worth the risk, and I do believe there's a risk to pulling your centre half out like that. Id be happier if they did it now and again rather than every goal kick
scribbler Posted September 21, 2017 Posted September 21, 2017 18 hours ago, JoeAman08 said: This started at Reading away. It was mentioned after the game by a few. It's an interesting tactic but I've not seen it come to anything. There must be a reason for it. Think on the day of Reading it was assumed with Flint flicking it on, it sets up our press to start deeper in their half whereas would be around halfway line on a normal GK. Another reason was that they tend to be 50/50 balls. With Flint there a better chance of pinning them deep. They actually started doing this at the Watford game. Thought it odd at the time as not only was it Flint's first start of the season, but there was no guarantee that he'd be staying then. Thought it was just to set Eliasson going down the wing in that game but they've obviously kept it going since.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.